[Karate]

I'm thinking of getting a 45/410 derringer...something small and durable for use on a farm around ponds where snakes are seen quite a lot...want like a 3.5 barrel ...so narrowed it down to either a Bond Arms or a Cimarron Titan by Cobra...I would like some opinion on both but please only if you havehad either a
Cimarron/Cobra derringer or a Bond...

[ArchAngelCD]

For snakes I would rather carry a revolver over a 2 shot Derringer with an extremely heavy trigger. 5 or 6 shots are always better than 2 especially when the revolver is probably lighter than the Derringer. .38 Special snake shot from CCI does a great job on snakes and rats as does their other snake shot offerings.

Derringers are hard to shoot and are single action so there's an extra step that can be missed if you're not used to shooting a SA handgun. DA revolvers are quicker and you want quick if a snake is about to strike.

[Bikewer]

I am not fond of derringers either; many seem to have mechanical problems and/or are dangerous to carry.
Also as an old amateur herpetologist I'm generally against destroying snakes....

If you feel you must a walking stick is a lot cheaper.

[KenW.]

I really like my Bond Arms .410/.45 Colt derringer. Fun to shoot that little niche/novelty gun. Deadly on vermin to 5-7 yards with #8 shot.

[Karate]

haven't considered using a revolver...I have a 3 inch 5 shot 357...that could work out good

KenW what bond arms do you have

I looking at the Cowboy Defender

[Spartacus]

I bought a Cobra Derringer for a snake gun while mushroom hunting. I found that I would much rather put a few CCI shot shells in my EDC. The Cobra has a trigger pull that puts funny faces on everyone I've had shoot the little thing. Awkward to carry as we'll, but that may be because I just carried it in my pocket.

[Karate]

tried using shot shells in my 220 but the mags are too rounded at one in the front...I can put one in the barrel and then the top round will feed but past that they hang up...tried a Keltec PF 9 will not eject...next taurus pt145 same will not eject...HK P2000 (9m)works great and I have a 627 that I'm sure will work..hadn't thought about it till now and the taurus 605

[KenW.]

Century 2000

[Karate]

thanks

[ArchAngelCD]

haven't considered using a revolver...I have a 3 inch 5 shot 357...that could work out good

KenW what bond arms do you have

I looking at the Cowboy Defender
If you already have a 5 shot J frame you have what you need, well, all except for the ammo. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/395087/cci-shotshell-ammunition-38-special-100-grains-9-shot-box-of-10

[charlie fox]

I love derringers, but would never use one for any kind of defense against 4 legged, 2 legged or No legged vermin; they're slow to shoot, hard to manipulate and only have two shots. Seems to me a better plan would be to get a 2" .38 and fill it with shotshells if you really feel the need. I'm wondering if there is really a necessity to shoot snakes anyway...not a tree-hugger, but I've never had any critter become brave enough to come near me (my wife says it's because I smell funny) with any bad intent. All the snakes I've ever seen have been beating a hasty retreat when I disturbed them. I know there are some aggressive species, but I think you'd be OK with a good stick, a sharpset of eyes and a heathy sense of respect.

[KenW.]

There's not much need to kill snakes, except when the poisonous ones begin to interface with your habitat. No one wants a den of rattlers on your kids playground or on a well established picnic ground.

People who live in areas without poisonous creatures are more forgiving than some others.

BTW, I armed myself this morning with a .410 derringer loaded with 000 buck instead of my j-frame because it fits my jeans front pocket better.

[Tallbald]

I am extremely very completely totally pleased with my Bond Arms Century 2000. I understand its limits (capacity, firm trigger and hammer ) but I have 100% faith in mine going BANG BANG when I need it. I love the safety features too.Despite its weight, it disappears in a pocket holster in my jeans, and I don't go to to town (especially in a bank, food mart, liquor store, or even emergency room) without it. Often pondered different scenarios, and for me, it seems it will do the job heaven forbid I ever need it. Shot it for the first time with 2.5 inch #6 shot (only thing they had that day at Walmart) and I was quite suprized at the 3/8 inch penetration into dry oak tobacco sticks used as a target frame. At 30 feet , the pattern was also tighter than I expected. I carry it with 45 Colt rounds, fearing that if I ever had to shoot it in a crowd, with shotshells or buckshot, it would be a repeat of the tragedy in NYC with innocents hurt. Just my opinion. Don

[Tallbald]

double post. Sorry

[sig228]

Bond derringers are not very small. I would suggest you go with the above recommendation of a jframe with snakeshot.

[wildcatter109]

This is a 3" I carry it with shorts and a T shirt, all summer, don't even know it's there. No one else does either! Very concealable for 45 acp.
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/saumbi/_MG_5260.jpg

[bassdogs]

To each their own, but can't understand why anyone would choose a derringer for anything other than a couple of laughs when you're done shooting the real guns. I have a Davis 38 that I shoot every once in a while. With shot shells, it will make a real mess with the water snakes that come around my houseboat. But so do my other guns all of which perform better, have more rounds, and are much more accurate outside of 5 feet.

[KenW.]

Double post

[KenW.]

My paper targets don't laugh when with each pull of the trigger they get another five .36 cal holes in them.

And they are fun too! We have people carrying .22 mags and .25 ACP and some will disparage .410 buckshot and .45 Colt.

It is better at delivering lethal force than a balled up fist at the same or similar range. And fits my jeans pocket beter than my J-frame.

[wildcatter109]

To each their own, but can't understand why anyone would choose a derringer for anything other than a couple of laughs when you're done shooting the real guns. I have a Davis 38 that I shoot every once in a while. With shot shells, it will make a real mess with the water snakes that come around my houseboat. But so do my other guns all of which perform better, have more rounds, and are much more accurate outside of 5 feet.
You may laugh but with no problem putting 2 230 grain Ranger T's @815 fps. in a 6 inch target at 30 feet should should be considered BAD A$$ MEDICINE, what do take to town in shorts sandal's and a tank top??? ! This is the least I ever walk out of my house with. And quite often carry it with my CC gun. Never hurts to have 2
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/saumbi/_MG_0085.jpg

[Karate]

I am enjoying this conversation....I know that derringers have a lot of limits...I was unsure how well the 38 shot shells would work against snakes...and I think I also am looking for an excuse to buy another gun...keep the talk coming

[bassdogs]

If someone can hit something at 30 feet with a short barreled Derringer, all the better to them. With the small [very small] grip, finger cramping trigger pull, and short sight radius; you're a better man than I. Are they fun to shoot? Occasionally. Are they potentially deadly? For sure if you hit your target. Is it better as someone said than your fist? If you hit your target before they continue their planned mayhem.

OK, no need to get angry on the issue. I always say carry what your want, after all its america. I have a Judge Public Defender that I often carry. Its in my wife's console as we speak. Loaded with 2 rounds Federal 000buck followed by 3 45LC hollow points. Many will disparage my choice and I say you don't like the Judge, don't buy it. So in fairness I will say I liked the derringer well enough to buy a cheap one and I may pull it out of the lock box now and shoot it a few times just to remind myself why I would never rely on it for personal defense when I have many other better choices.

For the record, just about anything is better than my fists, but after 2 quick shots from a derringer my fists would be all that I would have left.

[KenW.]

Derringers are definately a niche gun. They will not work for everyone's needs, but they fill a small void in mine.

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'd forego the derringer option as well. These are the two I use for our very real and potentially very deadly snake encounters here 'bouts. Oddly, I consider them more to kill the snake after a bite for identification as I find some of them a bit difficult especially when all dusted up.

To date I've been tagged 3 separate times with not one envenomation (takes a while to know that :mad: and chasing, stomping and otherwise freaking out to kill it is not the way to go) and had two dogs envenomated.

Three shot rounds an a couple of pills in case the snake has legs.

[wildcatter109]

It will be a lot of use left in the car, and to big to conceal!

[wildcatter109]

Deleated

[wildcatter109]

If someone can hit something at 30 feet with a short barreled Derringer, all the better to them. With the small [very small] grip, finger cramping trigger pull, and short sight radius; you're a better man than I. Are they fun to shoot? Occasionally. Are they potentially deadly? For sure if you hit your target. Is it better as someone said than your fist? If you hit your target before they continue their planned mayhem.

OK, no need to get angry on the issue. I always say carry what your want, after all its america. I have a Judge Public Defender that I often carry. Its in my wife's console as we speak. Loaded with 2 rounds Federal 000buck followed by 3 45LC hollow points. Many will disparage my choice and I say you don't like the Judge, don't buy it. So in fairness I will say I liked the derringer well enough to buy a cheap one and I may pull it out of the lock box now and shoot it a few times just to remind myself why I would never rely on it for personal defense when I have many other better choices.

For the record, just about anything is better than my fists, but after 2 quick shots from a derringer my fists would be all that I would have left.

I don't trust my life to CHEAP GUNS, there is usually a reason there cheap! I also don't recommend any weapon for CCW to anyone as only they know there own limitations. I also don't expect everyone to understand how someone can be proficient with certain specialty weapons. Some know how to use a derringer, and reload quickly, some think 18 shots are necessary! I have been taught to use a weapon that only holds 2 to 9 rounds and make the first one count!

I know my limitations after over 40 of the last 58 years shooting and competing with them. I have competed since the early 70's with big bore handguns and Unlimited Specialty pistols out to 200 meters in Silhouette Competition. I have hunted everything from Varmint to Elk with handguns, and that is all I use today for hunting besides Bow's! I shoot between 4 to 6000 rounds a year still in handguns alone, I use to shoot a lot when I was younger. I am the Range Officer at our County Conservation Club, and run the rifle matches there, and belong to 2 other private ranges locally. I have had many self defense courses and cc classes over the years, in the class and on the range, all by Certified Professionals, from LEO's to Vet's!

So I understand there are many who find it difficult to understand how some can be proficient with certain specialty weapons, and at the same time, I understand there are those who can't proficiently use a 32 or 38 special. My advice to them is practice,,,,, A LOT!! As a someone once said "A MAN'S GOT TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS"!!

[KenW.]

Bond Arms derringers and most certainly not cheap. They're high-quality heavy stainless steel milled precisely and you pay a pretty penny for them; I sure did.

the ten-foot shot pattern is better than I expected from such a short barrel. 3.5 inches of barrel lenght lets you use a 3 inch .410 shell. I take #6, #8, 000, slug, and .45 Colt on ATV treks across the desert. A great deal of versatility.

[BCRider]

A shooting buddy had a Bond Arms for a while in .45Colt/.410. I got to shoot it a couple of times.

The trouble with the Bond and the other derringers I've shot is that if it's not a .22 then the difference in recoil in your hands between the two barrels makes it VERY hard to hit what you want to hit at much past 5 feet with any reasonable degree of accuracy. The Bond I shot with medium strength .45Colt loads had POI's that differed by almost a foot even at 5 yards out. A .38Spl derringer I shot had even worse upper to lower difference due to a smaller grip. But they ALL have some pretty big difference in POI due to the bore axis difference. So all in all I would have to say that if you already have a J frame revolver then I would strongly suggest that you simply arm up that one with what you need.

A nice option, if you know you'll have the time during an encouter, is carry a mix of solid and shot rounds. The shot rounds can be marked on the head with a felt pen color so that you can quickly open the cylinder to switch from shot to solid or the other way as required and depending on the most likely use.

[Karate]

Wildcatter109 how do you extract the 45 acp casing...

[BSA1]

Derringers for primary carry give a illusion of adequate self-protection.

First of all I can not imagine a situation where the shooter will say "Whew I sure am glad I didn't have more than two rounds".

Second in the case of the Bond they are very heavy and bulky. Like Rugers they are overbuilt which allows them to chambered in large calibers.

Third revolvers are cursed by the tac rambos as being slow to reload. Derringer...forget it.

Derringers are very unforgiving to careless handling. The son of the owner of Bond accidently shot and killed himself with one of their guns.

By the time you add larger grips (needed for bigger calibers) along with the size and weight of a Bond you are packing the same as a J-frame or small frame semi-auto without the extra rounds. Seems like a poor tradeoff to me.

Small derringers do have a place in real world carry as a back-up gun. I carried a High Standard 22 mag. as a Onion Field gun.

[wildcatter109]

Wildcatter109 how do you extract the 45 acp casing...
if they don't fall out when you flip the barrels open, it just takes a wipe of the finger to drag them out. the recoil is pretty mild with the 45 acp, as long as you stay away from +P. I would say that I have very little use for +P in this caliber. I think the ability to control your fire is the main object when you are throwing 230 grain, 1/2" diameter hunks of lead at over 800 fps. Center of chest and you should have their attention.

[BHP FAN]

my derringer is an old FIE .38, I picked up at a pawn shop for about a hundred bucks, it's card table accurate, small, and with two .38 specials, not bad in the recoil department.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/hut-man/remingtonset1.jpg

[bassdogs]

Wcatter - Not sure why you went on so about your shooting background, and I guess your point was that some with tons of practice can be effective with "speciality" guns. I get it! But then we digress away from the derringer and its value as a SD weapon. PS my reference to a cheap Davis certainly didn't imply that I bought it or fire it occasionally for life and death situations.

With your shooting experience, you separate yourself from 99.9% of the shooters out there. Even those who shoot thousands of rounds a year, few spend that much time shooting a derringer. Not sure why you are so vigerous in your defense of such a "speciality" weapon and why a person with your experience wouldn't use that experience to give better direction to a person considering purchasing such a weapon. There is certainly no indication that the poster is planning on shooting to the extreme that you state is necessary to become profiecent with such a weapon.

In more simple terms, lets go to a local gun store and pick out 25 customers at random and take them to the shooting range in the back. Give them a high quality derringer of .38 or larger and a S&W [or other reputable] short barrel revolver and lets see where they lay the rounds at 30 feet. Derringers are not easy to shoot nor are they accurate for most shooters outside of 5 or 6 feet. Then there are those pesky 2 rounds you have in the heat of the moment to try to hit a bad guy who by the requirements of lawful selfdefense is intending you deadly harm.

I would and am pointing the poster of this thread to another weapon and away from considering the derringer.

[KenW.]

At 15 feet I can put four .36 cal lead balls into a man- sized target's chest with each of two pulls of the trigger.
While it is capable of firing 45 Colt, I prefer the 000 buck for last- ditch defense.
Is it my first choice of defense against a two legged predator? No. That's why it is kept for poisoness snakes, rats, and mice and generally loded with birdshot. But, when I don't want to belt on my 38, 9mm, 40, or 45, for a trip to the corner stop & rob for coffee, fits into my pocket better than my J-frame.

[No Quarter]

BSA - WRONG!!!!! You are thinking of American Derringer. The owners kid died when he closed their derringer on a live .45 Colt round without putting the gun at half-cock. When he closed the action, it fired the round into his gut, killing him. Of course, that is a fantastic endorsement for the effectiveness of the large rounds in these little guns, despite the tragic circumstances.

There was a thread on here a couple years ago about a man that stopped a carjacking and killed his attacker DRT with a Bond derringer using .410 buckshot.
Here is the link:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-237382.html

The story is also proof of the effectiveness of these guns for their designed purpose of up close proctection. They are NOT target guns and as such, should not be judged like a range gun.


Bond Arms have a rebounding hammer and the firing pins are NOT protruding into the chamber unless the hammer is cocked and the trigger is pulled.

Bond Derringers are great little pocket guns. I have several. Their new 2.5" mini barrel greatly reduces the footprint of the gun. The picture of it next to my little Guardian .32 shows the small size. The gun is now only 4.5" long and weighs 18oz. I guess 18oz is heavy to some people. I personally have no problem carrying this gun in my pocket.

For those that desparage these little guns, they do the job they are asked to do as long as you practice with them. They also tend to hold on to a lot more velocity than most people seem to understand. I used to have a .44 mag barrel for my Bond that kicked out a 240gr JSP at 1100 fps. So, at "give me your money" distance at the ATM, I am pretty sure it would dick the bad guy up pretty well. There are videos on Youtube showing several different calibers fired through a chrony and the results are pretty nice.

See it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhaIUuZaNaU

Also, comparing .40S&W performance between a Glock 23 and a Bond Arms. The derringer hold on to pretty good velocity despite the MUCH smaller size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHJcOK5zK0s

So, let's not discount the derringer as the worst gun EVER for self defense. Are there better ones? Sure are! But, the little Bond Arms guns serve some us just fine in a self defense role.

[BSA1]

Derringers for primary carry give a illusion of adequate self-protection.

First of all I can not imagine a situation where the shooter will say "Whew I sure am glad I didn't have more than two rounds".

There was a thread on here a couple years ago about a man that stopped a carjacking and killed his attacker DRT with a Bond derringer using .410 buckshot.
Here is the link:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-237382.html

The story is also proof of the effectiveness of these guns for their designed purpose of up close proctection.

One instance only showed that in this particular incident it worked (just barely) The O.P. states he fired a .410 shotshell which hit the victim in the throat and did not exit A lucky shot does not mean the derringer was the best choice or even a wise choice. Incidently the post lacked any documentation just the posters story.

Second in the case of the Bond they are very heavy and bulky. Like Rugers they are overbuilt which allows them to chambered in large calibers.

The Bond Snake Slayer (their most popular model) specs are; Barrel: 3 1/2“, Weight: 22 oz., Length: 5 1/2 “, Capacity: 2, MSRP $ 475.00,

Ruger LCR specs; Barrel: 1.8”, Weight: 13.5 oz. empty, 5 rounds of 357 adds 3.0 oz, Length: 6 1.2”, Capacity: 5, MSRP $525.00, out the door price; $430.00.

Since you mention the Guardian .32 Ruger LCP specs; Barrel: 2.75” Weight: 9.5 oz., Length: 5.16”, Capacity: 6+1 9mm, MSRP $330.00, dealer $220.00.

You pay your money and take your chances. You are the only one that can determine the personal risk to you.

[doc2rn]

I have owned both the Cobra and Bond arms derringers, and they are both as heavy as carrying a regular revolver. I would recommend a Kit gun .22lr with 8-9 shots for serious pit viper control. I dont mind snakes as long as they are not poisonous, but the ones that are get my full attention and lead.

[scotjute]

The .38 spl/.357 bird-shot round from CCI is effective to about 10-12'. Have killed several medium size snakes with it. Used 3" barrel S&W J-frame. Have an American Derringer in .38 spl, but prefered my J-frame for actual use.

[Karate]

That was my initial thoughts on the
titan...but reviews look good and it more expensive than the regular cobras are

[TennJed]

No 25@BSA25Cents - WRONG!!!!! You are thinking of American Derringer. The owners kid died when he closed their derringer on a live .45 Colt round without putting the gun at half-cock. When he closed the action, it fired the round into his gut, killing him. Of course, that is a fantastic endorsement for the effectiveness of the large rounds in these little guns, despite the tragic circumstances.

Not sure what U are talking about . The owner of American Derringer died years before 2006, His wife whom is pictured on their web site took over. They had no kids. No son involved. The newer guns installed a safety around 2007.
I have visited their store in Wayco, TX.
This article from forbes magazine states the owner of American Derringer, Elizabeth Saunders, had 2 children. One was killed in by a drunk driver and one in an "accident at the gun plant". I assume this is the child in question. which would have been about 1994, well before the safety you speak of was installed. Because of the age of the children and the marriage to the original owner, it looks like the kids were from another relationship

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1998/0615/6112045a_print.html

Saunders went on to earn an M.B.A. from Baylor University, but a series of tragedies marred her success. In 1993 her husband died of pancreatic cancer. A year later, her 16-year-old son, Mark, was killed by a drunk driver. Three months later her son Scott, then 21, died in a freak accident in the gun plant.

[loose noose]

I don't agree with the .22 rim fire using snake shot as being effective, I know of a buddy that tried to shoot a rattler with one and all it did was pi$$ him off. As far as a derringer goes, I own an American Derringer in double action, SS, .38 spl. I know it will put both barrels into a 2" group at 10 yards all day long. However it does shoot it bit high, so I've become accustomed to shooting at the lower belly of the silhoutte target. Note: I use Hornady Critical Defense loads. I've also shot CCI snake loads and those seem to shoot at POI at POA. I've been known to carry that arm with me in cargo shorts when the temps out here get over 100 degrees.:scrutiny::D

[PRM]

I've owned a American Derringer Model 1 in 45LC/.410 for about 20 years now. With field shot it will make short work of snakes at close range. I load my .45LC with black powder, shot through this gun, they are more fun than the 4th of July. The .410 and .000 Buck are pretty effective rounds for the little gun within its limits.

Out to about 5 yards, I'm happy with it shooting the field shot, and the .45LC and .000 buck will take it back to the 7-10 yard range in accuracy. So we are talking about a close range gun.

I don't see myself carrying this gun as a primary SD firearm. A good 38 snub or a Walther, just make a better choice.

Will I ever get rid of the little gun? Nope - don't see that happening. Derringers are just classic arms with a historical mystic. Mine has been hand polished with Mothers Mag Polish to an almost nickel finish. I also put a set of elephant ivory grips on it and lowered the front sight to give it a more Remington appearance.

Want to start a range conversation - touch off a black powder round through it. Between the smoke and flame belching out of the muzzle combined with the deep throated booming. Folks just naturally smile and ask what the heck was that...