Best Selling Rifle in America


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Door Gunner
September 28, 2012, 11:53 AM
AR-15 - The best selling type of rifle in America.

This opens up lots of areas for discussion...

Why do you think is it a hot seller?

Do you have one?

Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?

Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?

How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?

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Big_E
September 28, 2012, 12:19 PM
It is a hot seller for many reasons: Military pattern, modular, light, fun to shoot, easy to customize etc.

Yes

Iconic firearm, lots of parts out there, customization, needed an intermediate round and a semi auto rifle.

I bought the lower in a FTF transaction. Got the upper from BCM.

I used to keep a few hundred rounds on hand. Ideally I would like to have a few thousand. But, being a college student and all and shooting it more often than I used to I only keep anywhere from 0-300 on me. Going to go buy some more today if I can find some good deals.

SilentStalker
September 28, 2012, 01:33 PM
I have quite a few of this type of rifle and I think I decided to go with getting a few for several reasons. I like the fact that they are so versatile. The rounds are good for most things I will ever need it for. Definitely one of the most enjoyable guns to shoot IMO, tons of customization support out there. However, I guess my main reason is because of my familiarity to this particular weapon. One you have trained with one or used one for awhile they quickly become second nature. And, if you have ever built one then you know everything you need to know about one. I also think it is because it is the gun my generation grew up with. There are cooler guns out there for sure but for the money and everything an AR offers, its hard to beat.

30Cal
September 28, 2012, 01:40 PM
The AWB of '94 is why they're popular. Before then, very very few people were buying them and there were only maybe 3 manufacturers.

jim243
September 28, 2012, 01:51 PM
I think Big E covered it all as to why. My first AR was purchased in 1967. Last one purchased in Jan 2012.

Lots of options, easy to change parts without need for a gunsmith. Relatively inexpensive ammo and just fun to shoot.

Jim

Pilot
September 28, 2012, 02:01 PM
As it should be. We all should have an AR hanging over the fireplace next to that musket.

Quentin
September 28, 2012, 02:28 PM
I also agree with Big E. The AR is a handy, flexible, highly configurable rifle. It's very easy to build to your exact specifications, the hardest part is making the right decisions the first time around. There are very few firearms that are as easy to upgrade and customize without the need for a large tool collection or a gunsmith.

I also bought stripped lowers locally from licensed FFLs with typical firearms background checks then had complete uppers and other parts delivered from BCM, Daniel Defense, PSA and other quality vendors. If you do your homework you can expect the rifle to work as well or better than one off the shelf. However, for folks who want a factory model, there are more configurations available than ever.

Something else to think of, there are dozens of calibers available and lots of built in accuracy and reliability. And 5.56/.223 is inexpensive compared to other centerfire rifle ammo (about .25-.50 a shot) so you can shoot a lot and store a lot. Many of us take advantage of sales and buy a thousand rounds at a time - or more.

For these reasons, and no doubt the sunset of the AWB, interest in the AR has skyrocketed in the last five or so years. And quality today is better than ever.

Welding Rod
September 28, 2012, 03:14 PM
Reliable

Durable

Accurate

Adaptive

Light

Simple

Weather resistant

Good fire power

Ergonomic

Great triggers easy to install

Cheap to Shoot

Almost no recoil

Easy to strip and maintain

CraigC
September 28, 2012, 03:25 PM
The AR is a great rifle with a lot of uses but in all honesty, I do believe that a lot of those sales are due to the fear that they will be unavailable in the future. That said, there are a lot of shooters buying them to actually use. I have one and would like to have three or four more but other things on higher on the priority list.

henschman
September 28, 2012, 04:23 PM
I recently put one together.

I have traditionally been more of a .30 cal guy when it comes to 2A-purpose battle rifles, but when I got the AR, 5.56 was really cheap. Plus I wanted to have something in that caliber, and which takes the same mags and parts as what the government boys use. They also have a lot of benefits as far as being able to gunsmith them in the field with minimal tools... there are few rifles that are easier to barrel and headspace. I also wanted something that was well-suited for close quarters and/or home defense, and the fact is the 5.56 is great for those roles (very little penetration of hard barriers, etc.). Plus I bought at a time when AR's were as cheap as they have ever been. I have also been wanting to go to some carbine courses, and of course the AR is the platform most of those are taught around.

I just ordered the parts to complete one for my Dad, as well. He is caught up in the election hysteria a bit, which I don't really buy into, but I figure any excuse to get him more into shooting is fine by me!

Both rifles are PSA.

mljdeckard
September 28, 2012, 04:37 PM
It is a popular gun for the same reasons the military has kept it longer than any other rifle. It is very versatile and easy to operate.

The one I have now, at the moment I only have a .22 lr upper for it. I'm working on several builds right now, including an AR-10.

I purchased stripped lowers from dealers.

Big_E
September 28, 2012, 05:17 PM
It is also surging in popularity as a hunting rifle. .223 can take small deer but some states don't allow it and whether it's ethical is up to you. If you don't want to use .223, just swap out the upper for 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .300 BLK, 6x45 etc.

The semi auto is a nice feature for varmint and hog hunting. Plus, AR's are just so darned easy to clean being military pattern and all.

meanmrmustard
September 28, 2012, 05:49 PM
As it should be. We all should have an AR hanging over the fireplace next to that musket.
Gross.

dragon813gt
September 28, 2012, 05:57 PM
Don't have one and never will. I prefer bolts and levers which I'm allowed to hunt with. Even if semiauto centerfires were allowed I would still not purchase one. I've shot them plenty of times. They just aren't what I enjoy shooting.


Brought to you by TapaTalk.

stubbicatt
September 28, 2012, 06:00 PM
Nope. Don't have one. This "platform" is not something I would choose.

I respect those who do, and it is a fantastic rifle. Just as some people like licorice, for some it sets their teeth on edge.

Enjoy!

76shuvlinoff
September 28, 2012, 06:56 PM
I am a lever operated wood and blue steel fan but I am on a collision course to buy my first AR. I gotta see what all the fervor is about and you can't do that sitting at the keyboard.

Future Fanboi? Could be Rabbit, could be.

Cosmoline
September 28, 2012, 07:25 PM
I didn't care for them.. until I got one. Based on a vote on this forum actually. It really turned my mind around on AR's. Contrary to the CW I've found mine to be extremely reliable and user-friendly. A real plug-and-play rifle.

Also something they don't tell you--all AR's are takedown models!

Big_E
September 28, 2012, 07:50 PM
Honestly, I was in a phase for awhile where I hated AR's. I started drinking all the cool aid and misinformation from shows like Futureweapons and talk about how 5.56 was a weak and inferior round. People made it seem like AR's would jam on every shot and 5.56 wouldn't even wound something.

After lot's of research and an open mind I decided to go ahead and take the plunge. Never regret one bit about buying my only AR so far. It is indeed my favorite firearm of my collection, more so than my beloved CZ-75B.

Funny, growing up I would shoot my dad's Colt SP1 and his Armi Jager .22. I thought the AR was one of the coolest guns ever. Then the haters got into my mind. Now I am an adamant supporter of AR's. Sure there are rifles that may be a little better for military and operator use now. But the AR is still an amazing rifle (or pistol if you go that route). Only problem is, .223 is still cheap for rifle ammo but it is still expensive. I really need to start reloading. I also understand not everyone likes AR's, that's fine but you have to see the merits of the firearm.

back40
September 28, 2012, 07:57 PM
Gross.
i don't know....they seem to get along just fine....
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8176/8034181385_5fddcf67f7.jpg

gojuice101
September 28, 2012, 10:15 PM
Technically I only own half of an AR right now. I bought the stripped lower at a gun show recently and have finished building the lower, complete with the stock. Still waiting for my upper to be delivered and trying to find the barrel that I want.

I thought about buying a stock model, but I figured I'd enjoy building it more, and then I'd know it inside and out. Very simple build (so far) and like everyone else said, I imagine that's one reason they are so popular. They are easy to work on and customize, and there are tons of options. I've already planned at least two more AR builds, but I gotta get this one finished first.

I surprised myself, because I used to be anti-AR. However, since getting into this build, I actually really like the platform. I can't wait to be able to shoot it.

TrickyDick
September 28, 2012, 10:16 PM
After being in the army, I was sick of the AR platform....(Rattling uppers @ BCT) However, after seeing the cost of ammo, and the fact that i own a mini-14, i realized it just made sense. BUT, I decided to build my first AR and change some features which i hated about it.. I'm 80% done and waiting on funding to complete it...

gasteffens
September 28, 2012, 10:42 PM
I bought an AR because it was my first rifle purchase of my own, and I wanted something I could customize and learn how to do some neat shooting.

I keep around 500-1000 rounds right now but I have not gone to the range too much recently. Also just got married, so funding for this hobby is not a priority at the moment.

Anyone who owns any firearm should also have it due to the original purpose of the Second Amendment. ;):D

Ehtereon11B
September 28, 2012, 10:56 PM
I have 30% of an AR. It is a work in progress :)

It is the barbie doll for men. Because it is so popular there are so many accessories and different parts available. Don't like that stock? One screw and it comes out for a different one. Don't like that trigger? 2 or 3 pins depending on your lower receiver and it comes out. Want to swap out your 5.56 to make a hog gun in 454 or .50 Beowulf? 2 pins to take off the upper and a different magazine.

I am building my own for familiarity. 8 years in the Army means lots of practice with one. My wife was in the Army for a few years before getting out on a medical so she knows how to use one too. That is a big selling point for both of us to get an AR.

Lower from FFL. The rest from stores or private transactions.

Plan on keeping at least 1000 rounds on hand for it. Already have about 300 and it isn't even done yet. Semi-auto and 30 round magazines means you can shoot through a large stockpile of ammo and not even realize.

fatcat4620
September 28, 2012, 11:04 PM
You sure it is not the mosin nagant. Buds alone sold like 500K of them last year.

threefortyduster
September 28, 2012, 11:16 PM
Why do you think is it a hot seller?

Because some people in my generation like to play military, some people like guns they can attach a lot of accessories to. I was never in the military, don't intend on it, so I have no fascination at all with the platform.

Do you have one?

No.

Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?

I didn't and probably won't unless they try some stupid ban again.

Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?

I didn't.

How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?

In .223...zero. The round doesn't really serve any purposes for me and I don't have a firearm chambered for it.

tarosean
September 28, 2012, 11:33 PM
AR-15 - The best selling type of rifle in America.

Got proof of that claim???

To answer your questions thou..

Why do you think is it a hot seller?
CALL OF DUTY and other video games, where the kids have grown into men. 90% +/-when I see someone walking out of the store with one its a young man.

Do you have one?

LaRue

Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?

Got multiple rifles of different types/platfroms. I have one because I wanted it. :)

Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?

Manufacture

How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?

Less than 300rds I really only use it for plinking and occasionally Ill take it hog hunting.

RBid
September 28, 2012, 11:49 PM
Possibly because AR-15 is more of a category than a specific gun, and spans many makers, models, and configurations. A Ruger 10/22 is just one line, from one maker.

This is like "1911s outsell Sig P226s!"


The AR-15 is America's rifle, for a few years running.

meanmrmustard
September 29, 2012, 07:07 AM
i don't know....they seem to get along just fine....
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8176/8034181385_5fddcf67f7.jpg
How do you have the two of them together and keep a straight face?

Nice rifle btw.

CraigC
September 29, 2012, 09:51 AM
I like my AR, have a bunch invested in it and like shooting it but it will NEVER hang over the mantle. Or anywhere else in sight either.

Pilot
September 29, 2012, 10:12 AM
I like my AR, have a bunch invested in it and like shooting it but it will NEVER hang over the mantle. Or anywhere else in sight either.


I was being facetious, and probably should have put a :D next to my statement.

All my firearms that aren't on my person are locked in my gun safe.

back40
September 29, 2012, 10:41 AM
i'll admit keeping a straight face was a tad difficult. i just happened to have my ar on the bench, and after shooting my flinter from a standing position, layed it down and then noticed..."hmmm now there's an odd couple":)

michaelbsc
September 29, 2012, 10:45 AM
As it should be. We all should have an AR hanging over the fireplace next to that musket.

Well, I'm actually looking at doing an M-85 build rather than AR-15. But the principle is the same. I think everyone ought to have both ends of the spectrum covered.

I keep trying to push the envelope both ways, not only wanting to do a complete from the ground up build for a gun that uses NATO ammo, but I want to make my own black powder for the front stuffer.

PTMCCAIN
September 29, 2012, 11:07 AM
I'm glad somebody mentioned the Mosin. Crazy how many are avaialble. But understandable.

Very inexpensive.

Literally a massive bang for the buck.

Historical rifle.

What's not to like?

Door Gunner
September 29, 2012, 05:47 PM
I have 30% of an AR. It is a work in progress :)

It is the barbie doll for men. Because it is so popular there are so many accessories and different parts available. Don't like that stock? One screw and it comes out for a different one. Don't like that trigger? 2 or 3 pins depending on your lower receiver and it comes out. Want to swap out your 5.56 to make a hog gun in 454 or .50 Beowulf? 2 pins to take off the upper and a different magazine.

I am building my own for familiarity. 8 years in the Army means lots of practice with one. My wife was in the Army for a few years before getting out on a medical so she knows how to use one too. That is a big selling point for both of us to get an AR.

Lower from FFL. The rest from stores or private transactions.

Plan on keeping at least 1000 rounds on hand for it. Already have about 300 and it isn't even done yet. Semi-auto and 30 round magazines means you can shoot through a large stockpile of ammo and not even realize.
Like you, I'm an old Army man. Retired 1SG. Needless to say, after a tour in RVN I have put a lot of ball ammo down range; too much in anger. The M16/AR-15 platform is a remarkable firearm. As with all the others, it has it's limitations. Not a sniper weapon, not a big game rifle. But it excels in so many areas.

I started in the Army with the M14. 7.62 (.308 for you civilians), 20 round magazine; either semi-auto or full auto model. Superb weapon with one major drawback. It was heavy. So was the full magazines. The M16 allowed you to carry far more ammo, pound for pound. Normal engagement range in combat made it ideal. I rarely engaged a target at more than 100 yards, except when I was in a helicopter. I also have an M14 as a fond remembrance of days gone by.

Considering the three most common uses for a rifle; Self Defense, Target Shooting, and Hunting, it fits 2 of 3 nicely. Hunting deer sized or larger, not so much. In our world where criminals may require an occasional spanking... it excels. Short barrel makes it an easy swing in tight spaces. 30 rounds seems adequate before having to swap magazines.

By the way, I have some of the same pistols you do!

Warp
September 29, 2012, 06:00 PM
AR-15 - The best selling type of rifle in America.

This opens up lots of areas for discussion...

Why do you think is it a hot seller?

Do you have one?

Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?

Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?

How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?

It's a hot seller because it's a good platform that can do a lot of what people want in a rifle.

Yes, I have one. Got it this year.

I chose it because it is the most effective platform for my intended uses. It is relatively easy handle and shoot, is maneuverable, is effective against two-legged predators, and it doesn't excessively penetrate walls/etc in an urban or sub-urban environment. Parts, ammo, magazines, accessories, etc are all plentiful and appropriately priced.

I don't keep nearly as much ammo on hand as I would like. I would like cases and cases stacked upon cases and cases, but I have only a case or two. I don't have more because it costs money and I shoot it up. I want a lot because it will never go bad, will only get more expensive, and might become more difficult/expensive to acquire in the future.

powder
September 30, 2012, 12:42 AM
I disagree, I'd say the best selling rifle in America has been on the 700 platform.

nyc71
September 30, 2012, 03:11 AM
I've read the Ruger 10-22lr is the best seller.

Pete D.
September 30, 2012, 04:33 AM
iconic, yes. And all of the good things already noted by various posters.
I bought mine twenty years ago so that I could shoot High Power matches/Service Rifle. Floated the barrel myself - no gunsmith needed.
Colt Match Target HBar.
Ammo is easy to load.
Pete

jogonmd95
September 30, 2012, 06:05 AM
AR platform is very popular because its damn fun to shoot,quite accurate,and easy to maintain. Full auto is a kick in the pants.
Own a Bush M4 , 11.5 in. HBAR
5.56 are relatively cheap and easy to obtain.I keep around 3-4k rounds on stock JIC.
Best

Ash
September 30, 2012, 06:28 AM
You know, it's funny, but I have never been able to warm up to the AR. I have owned a Bushmaster, Stag, and Rock River at different times and always end up selling it. Ditto on the SKS (sold my Yugo at the Natchez show yesterday) and the FAL, so it isn't anti-AR or anything. Mine were excellent, had wonderful triggers, were light and certainly handy, accurate, what's not to like?

I have no idea. From time to time I decide to get one, keep it for a while, and then pass it on. The last time I sold I became a confirmed bachelor when it comes to AR's. I have a Ruger Mini-14 GB which seems to stay around, even though it isn't as accurate (but has a good trigger and is 100% reliable). Perhaps part of the equation is I have no fascination with lego rifles, which is to say quickly configurable/buildable/changeable rifles. Black plastic also does a lousy job of capturing my imagination. To be honest, I find them boring and uninteresting. Others will quickly say the same of my GB - I certainly don't claim it is better than an AR in any way.

Even so, I have no animosity towards AR's or guys who shoot/like them. Best selling? Perhaps, but I have found that being the best seller has never been a selection category on my part. I own neither a Remington 700 or a Ruger 10/22 nor a 1911 or Glock.

Warp
September 30, 2012, 02:55 PM
I've read the Ruger 10-22lr is the best seller.

Where did you read that? Link or source?

I would bet that a platform (AR15) outsells a specific model (10/22)

Ash
September 30, 2012, 05:37 PM
Well, then let's talk platforms. I'd wager semi-auto 22lr's outsell AR's. Overly broad, I know, but at the same time, AR popularity has waxed only recently, relatively speaking. Ruger 10/22's have been popular for a few decades. Perhaps more AR's of every flavor are sold than any specific model of other rifle, but that's like saying revolvers outsell Spingfield Armory EMP's every year. Not a real good apples and apples comparison.

Warp
September 30, 2012, 05:59 PM
Well, then let's talk platforms. I'd wager semi-auto 22lr's outsell AR's. Overly broad, I know, but at the same time, AR popularity has waxed only recently, relatively speaking. Ruger 10/22's have been popular for a few decades. Perhaps more AR's of every flavor are sold than any specific model of other rifle, but that's like saying revolvers outsell Spingfield Armory EMP's every year. Not a real good apples and apples comparison.

Being popular for decades would seem, to me, to be a factor in REDUCING current sales. I wouldn't count guns sold decades ago for "best selling rifle in america".

I think your analogy is failed, and is in fact an apples/oranges comparison. AR15 is far more specific than "revolver".

johnnydollar
September 30, 2012, 06:01 PM
If almost everyone else has one, I shouldn't have to explain why I don't have one.

Warp
September 30, 2012, 06:04 PM
If almost everyone else has one, I shouldn't have to explain why I don't have one.

Did anybody ask you to??

M1key
September 30, 2012, 06:11 PM
I do believe that a lot of those sales are due to the fear that they will be unavailable in the future.

Thanks to the "greatest gun Salesman ever"...

M

OilyPablo
September 30, 2012, 06:26 PM
Why do you think is it a hot seller?

Lately? Fad. Recently? Stupid attempts to ban and the fact the new models are really, really reliable.

Really? Adaptability. Simpleness. Weight. Accuracy.

Do you have one?

I have "three":

Daniel Defense M4V3 5.56 midlength, with some useful (to me) mods. I can shoot flies off targets
Palmetto State Armory 6.8SPC Upper, mix of various parts (95% complete)
.458 SOCOM still in dream phase


Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?

Got tired of my other rifles which are quite varied (including an AK) and said to myself, what the heck, join the crowd!

Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?

I bought my DD from Rainer Arms. If anyone ever has a chance, visit this smallish shop. So many cool toys.

How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?

I have 1000's of rounds. I have boxes I forget I have. What can I say?:o

Ash
September 30, 2012, 07:31 PM
Failed? Nah, you just don't understand analogies. Perhaps you think it too broad, but that was by example. AR's embody an entire class of firearms which includes multiple manufacturing techniques and materials, from cast to forged to polymer frames, plus different gas styles, to a point where one AR type firearm might be so utterly different from another with no interchanging parts, all within the umbrella created, as to be considered different firearms entirely.

Fine, you create a large category encompassing numerous companies, configurations, materials, and then compare this big tent with a single product. Of course it makes sense to you, and that big tent might well indicate a greater total production number over the single product, that is, the 10/22. Even so, there are more 10/22's made annually than any single AR model or manufacturer. That is to say, there are more 10/22's than Rock River's, more than Stag, than Grizzly, you name it.

Consider, then, that the semi-auto 22lr out sells the AR platform, embodied.

Warp
September 30, 2012, 07:34 PM
Failed? Nah, you just don't understand analogies. Perhaps you think it too broad, but that was by example. AR's embody an entire class of firearms which includes multiple manufacturing techniques and materials, from cast to forged to polymer frames, plus different gas styles, to a point where one AR type firearm might be so utterly different from another with no interchanging parts, all within the umbrella created, as to be considered different firearms entirely.

Fine, you create a large category encompassing numerous companies, configurations, materials, and then compare this big tent with a single product. Of course it makes sense to you, and that big tent might well indicate a greater total production number over the single product, that is, the 10/22. Even so, there are more 10/22's made annually than any single AR model or manufacturer. That is to say, there are more 10/22's than Rock River's, more than Stag, than Grizzly, you name it.

Consider, then, that the semi-auto 22lr out sells the AR platform, embodied.

Then only consider "M4" type AR15s, if you are so concerned about the variability, and compare that to only 10/22 type 22s.

rukwikenuf
September 30, 2012, 08:38 PM
i've got close to 2k rounds on hand. all NATO ammo: 1K of M885 LAP, and 100 m196 tracers, 200 m856 AP tracers, close to 1k of m193. i've got a few dozen m995 Armor Pierce.

yeah, i'm kinda stockpiling ammunition, but it's getting more expensive every day.

i built my rifle from a stripped lower i got at the shop i work at, and i did it all on a budget. i ordered some specific parts and got them at cost, others i bought used. i got a barely used Saber Defence barrel, match grade SS fluted HBar configuration 20" long, put it on a Spike's Blem upper, Palmetto lower, CMMG LPK, PWS buffer tube, Magpul MOE stock, Troy 15" Battlerail Alpha tube. so far i only have a Burris Fastfire II on there, but i'm planning a 2.5-10 Vortex Viper PST scope on an American Defense QD mount.

back40
September 30, 2012, 09:26 PM
i would say you guys are coming very close to gettting this thread closed. talking politics is a no-no.

whether it's the 10/22, rem700, or the ar that can claim the title of the best selling rifle in the us, i didn't take the op's statement as a fact. more of a reasonable assumption based on their extreme popularity over the last few years.

Sky
September 30, 2012, 09:34 PM
[QUOTE]AR-15 - The best selling type of rifle in America.

This opens up lots of areas for discussion...

Why do you think is it a hot seller? Some have shot them others see others shooting and talking about them; to many individual reasons for a purpose

Do you have one? Yes

Why did you choose the AR-15 platform? Had money, saw one and thought I would give it a try. Used M-14 in the military and never played with the M-16.. I have purchased others since my first one.

Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual? Dealer and manufacture

How much ammo do you keep on hand and why? Enough for my purposes which is hunting. I am not a last minute buyer if I can help it.

OilyPablo
September 30, 2012, 10:06 PM
How about the fact that rapid firing an AR is actually more fun than with an AK, and rapid fire with an AK is hard to beat!

Did I just write that?

fatcat4620
October 1, 2012, 07:35 AM
Does anyone have any numbers to back up these claims?

meanmrmustard
October 1, 2012, 07:45 AM
How about the fact that rapid firing an AR is actually more fun than with an AK, and rapid fire with an AK is hard to beat!

Did I just write that?
How do you figure that? I've always found the cycling of an AK much more invigorating, what with that huge chunk of reciprocating steel. It's a mans rifle.

The AR, on the other hand, sounds like a pogo stick.

OilyPablo
October 1, 2012, 07:49 AM
We all know your bias toward the AK. It's OK.

meanmrmustard
October 1, 2012, 07:54 AM
We all know your bias toward the AK. It's OK.
Make statements towards the conversation, not the conversationist. Try to keep it High Road, as whatever bias you believe I may have means little in this particular thread.

Texan Scott
October 1, 2012, 10:33 AM
LOL @ "Barbie doll for men". Also seen a gun writer describe it as the "Mr Potato Head" factor.

Also worth mentioning that it has been the first center fire rifle for hundreds of thousands of young Americans over the decades. Given the number of young vets coming out of OEF/ OIF in the past decade, it's probably fair to say another generation has adopted it.

fatcat4620
October 1, 2012, 08:32 PM
Still waiting in the stats and real numbers.... Everything here is speculation.

back40
October 1, 2012, 08:52 PM
keep waiting fatcat. stats and real numbers aside, you can't argue their popularity. do you have anything useful to add?

fatcat4620
October 1, 2012, 09:02 PM
They may be popular but prove they are the best seller, if you can. Looks like an AR did not even make the top ten sales list at buds (2 AKs did)

back40
October 1, 2012, 09:14 PM
i don't have to prove anything:D if you don't like the op's choice of words, move on. whether or not the ar is the undeniable best selling rifle or not, really plays no part in the conversation.

fatcat4620
October 1, 2012, 09:21 PM
He said "best selling rifle in america" and I am not allowed to call him out on it?

meanmrmustard
October 1, 2012, 09:23 PM
i don't have to prove anything:D if you don't like the op's choice of words, move on. whether or not the ar is the undeniable best selling rifle or not, really plays no part in the conversation.
It does. If the OP states that it is, he should really have some solid evidence to substantiate that statement.

back40
October 1, 2012, 09:26 PM
call him out for what? what are you going to prove? what's wrong with having a conversation without everyone crying "prove it" all the time?

your mention of two aks being on the top ten list from bud's would make it seem as though you have something to prove. but i digress.

so do you own an ar? how about answering the questions that the op asked that are at the heart of this thread instead if nitpicking.

Warp
October 1, 2012, 09:29 PM
They may be popular but prove they are the best seller, if you can. Looks like an AR did not even make the top ten sales list at buds (2 AKs did)

Why would an AR make the top seller list at Buds???

meanmrmustard
October 1, 2012, 09:31 PM
Why would an AR make the top seller list at Buds???
Good question. Buds isn't super well known for AR sales.

doc2rn
October 1, 2012, 09:41 PM
Why do you think is it a hot seller?
Recognition factor as a military platform

Do you have one?
No

Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?
I didnt its as ugly as a Glock

Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?
Its not my cup of tea. I dont need 30 rds to do what my 30-30 or 30-06 can do with 5-7 rounds.

How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?
I keep around 1000 / platform.

justice06rr
October 2, 2012, 12:27 AM
The AR, on the other hand, sounds like a pogo stick.

...

Make statements towards the conversation, not the conversationist. Try to keep it High Road, as whatever bias you believe I may have means little in this particular thread.

Does that qualify as "High road"? You may have conflicted yourself there.

An AR sounds far from a pogo stick--Literally

on the topic, there are no numbers needed. You would think that Considering the M16/AR15 rifle has been used by the Military for decades proves that ...

hogshead
October 2, 2012, 12:45 AM
Not much of an AR fan. Owned several but never could really find a use for them. To expensive to target shoot not powerful enough for my hunting needs. Nearly impossible to put on a 4 wheeler rack. Still got my ak's and sks though.

Quentin
October 2, 2012, 01:08 AM
The AR, when you total sales from 100+ brands, has got to be one of the top sellers. I'm not going to bother dredging up any figures but how can so many brands stay in business unless they're moving product? ArmaLite, BCM, BM, Colt, CMMG, Daniel Defense, DTI, DPMS, LMT, LaRue, Noveske, PSA, Ruger, S&W, Stag, ... well you get the picture!

It's like Apple claiming to be the best selling computer but actually when you total up scores of Windows/PC builders out there they swamp Apple. The AR is your Windows PC and it dominates these days.

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 03:19 AM
Does that qualify as "High road"?

An AR sounds like a pogo stick
Absolutely.

Cee Zee
October 2, 2012, 03:46 AM
First where did you get the information that it is the best selling "type" of rifle in the US? What constitutes a "type" of rifle? I would think a semi-auto, rimfire makes for a "type" of rifle and that "type" far outpaces an AR in sales my friend. For example the biggest selling rifles in this country are made by Ruger, Remington, and Marlin. Remington makes some rimfires and some semi-auto rimfires but Ruger and Marlin both make a huge number of semi-auto rimfires. Ruger does sell other rifles and Marlin sells some but Marlin is a rimfire company as we all would guess. And of the top 25 US arms makers only two specialize in AR type weapons. Those companies would be DPMS and Bushmaster. Both have total sales in the 40,000-50,000 range. Marlin sold over 250,000 rifles in the same time period and Ruger sold 237,000 or so. It would take a whole lot of small companies to make up that kind of ground to make the AR the equal of semi-auto rimfires in terms of sales. You can find this information on this web page (http://www.shootingindustry.com/u-s-firearms-industry-today-2012/).

That's not to say that AR sales aren't booming or that they aren't fine firearms. Both of those things are true. I'll go ahead and answer your questions even though I don't really agree with the premise.

I think the AR is a hot seller because it is a great design with a whole lot of after market parts and most are interchangeable with other AR parts. That makes for a robust platform and a popular one too. The guns are generally accurate and fairly reliable (if you get a good model) and they are just plain fun to shoot and they are an effective weapon for many situations. But I don't think most people buy them to be used as defense weapons because most people live in cities where firing a weapon like that is subject to kill people a long distance away from where you intended to shoot. But some, especially those who live on farms, have a definite use for a weapon of that type for SD.

I do not own an AR although I don't have any particular reason not to. I just already had another platform in place when the AR became more affordable. I have an SKS setup and ready to rock to do the same job the AR is designed to do. No it won't shoot as far accurately but I have other weapons for long range use. I'm good for 300 yards with what I have so that should be plenty for a battle carbine which is what both are. Of course the original AR is a true assault weapon but I don't have a Class III license and I don't have a desire to get one. I couldn't afford to own or shoot a full auto weapon anyway.

I can afford to own an SKS and the ammo it takes to feed it. I don't feel a need to go any further in detailing what exactly I do own. Let's keep the anti's and the government guessing. I have to tell you that when I see a question like this I wonder if big brother is taking a survey to be honest. Why should I give that kind of information to anyone? I will say there are many people who own much more ammo than I do.

call him out for what? what are you going to prove? what's wrong with having a conversation without everyone crying "prove it" all the time?

Wow I didn't see this before I posted. I didn't know we were under a gag order before posting. What's wrong with asking a simple question about where the information came from and showing that it probably isn't true? Are we afraid of the truth?

The AR, when you total sales from 100+ brands, has got to be one of the top sellers. I'm not going to bother dredging up any figures but how can so many brands stay in business unless they're moving product? ArmaLite, BCM, BM, Colt, CMMG, Daniel Defense, DTI, DPMS, LMT, LaRue, Noveske, PSA, Ruger, S&W, Stag, ... well you get the picture!

Actually I "don't" get the picture. There is a list of the top selling arms companies in the US and there are only 2 AR specialists in the top 25 and they are near the bottom. It would take a whole lot of them to catch up to the plethora of rimfire sellers in the US which have numbers that dwarf AR sales in the same list. The link is above for the site. It's from the "US Firearms Industry Today" magazine. Sorry but when a company like DPMS or Bushmaster sales less than 50,000 rifles total I have a hard time believing they will match the totals of companies like Ruger and Marlin which sell 230,000 - 250,000 each most of which will be rimfires. Rimfires have always been the top selling "type" of rifle in the US. I don't see any evidence that has changed. Yes there have been a lot of AR's sold. But not that many. It just isn't going to happen that way. They cost way more than the rimfires. That's the biggest reason right there not to mention they cost far, far more to shoot. I can shoot $75 worth of ammo an hour with my .223 easy and it's a single shot, bolt action. Try doing that with a .22 using bulk ammo, which is what most gun buyers buy. That's always been true.

Warp
October 2, 2012, 03:52 AM
F But I don't think most people buy them to be used as defense weapons because most people live in cities where firing a weapon like that is subject to kill people a long distance away from where you intended to shoot.

I'm not sure this is totally accurate.

If you live in a city it would seem to me that any and every firearm you might use defensively has MORE than enough effective range to hit innocent bystanders if you fire in an unsafe direction.

Moreover, it's been proven that a properly loaded .223 or 5.56 will penetrate fewer interior walls than many/most handgun or shotgun rounds, which would actually make an AR a better home defense selection, would it not?

Cee Zee
October 2, 2012, 04:02 AM
If you live in a city it would seem to me that any and every firearm you might use defensively has MORE than enough effective range to hit innocent bystanders if you fire in an unsafe direction.

It's not nearly as true of a shotgun outdoors. Yes a shotgun will penetrate walls but it will dissipate energy very quickly after the shot disperses. You won't be able to kill someone at 100 yards with a shotgun unless you're using slugs. You most certainly can do that with a .223. In fact you could kill someone at 1000 yards with a .223 if you hit them just right. That covers way more ground than a shotgun does. It may be true that inside a building a shotgun is just as dangerous but once the bullet or the shot leaves the building the story changes quickly.

Warp
October 2, 2012, 04:06 AM
It's not nearly as true of a shotgun outdoors. Yes a shotgun will penetrate walls but it will dissipate energy very quickly after the shot disperses. You won't be able to kill someone at 100 yards with a shotgun unless you're using slugs. You most certainly can do that with a .223.

What makes you think that buckshot, let's say the most popular one (00), will be unable to kill somebody at 100 yards?

And why would you only worry about "killing" an innocent bystander? Wounding them is still a very serious problem.

100 yards...when I picture "in the city" I don't picture, in my mind's eye, 100 yard empty spaces behind your attacker(s). I mean, if there's nothing and nobody for 100 yards are you even in a city?

I still seriously question this theory that an AR15 is a poor home defense gun in the city, but good in the country, because of range.

benEzra
October 2, 2012, 07:05 AM
The AR-15 platform has been the top selling centerfire rifle in the United States for years. Several years ago I added up the numbers from the BATFE production stats, and I believe even back then that around one in four centerfire rifles sold in the United States was an AR.

Unlike many other rifles, the AR is a generic platform made by dozens of manufacturers in many different calibers, not a specific model made by only one company, so to get the totals you have to add up the production from 30, 40, or 50 different companies or whatever. But the data is there in the BATFE manufacturer's stats; when I combed through several years ago, I counted 33 makers right off the top, some with multiple production facilities.

F But I don't think most people buy them to be used as defense weapons because most people live in cities where firing a weapon like that is subject to kill people a long distance away from where you intended to shoot.
People (including me) use them in the HD role for the same reason that urban PD's and SWAT have been ditching their 9mm carbines and SMG's in favor of .223's, i.e. they overpenetrate less in building materials than most handgun calibers or effective shotgun rounds, and for a lot of us they are easier to shoot well than other choices. Suitable .223 JHP *does* penetrate more than birdshot, but way less than 00 buckshot.

fatcat4620
October 2, 2012, 07:17 AM
Now its 1 in 4?

Mp7
October 2, 2012, 07:21 AM
AR is the new code-talk for Mosin Nagant, riiight?

OilyPablo
October 2, 2012, 07:34 AM
AR is the new code-talk for Mosin Nagant, riiight?

:D:D:D

No. Not true. We now are now enlightened that the AK is a "man's rifle" and a AR-15 sounds like a "pogo stick". :eek::rolleyes::D Regardless if it's firing .50 Beowulf, .458SOCOM or 6.8SPC, so you must have your code-talk mixed up.:neener:

I have seen no statistics, but in my small world sampling I see WAY more AR's at my 4 ranges than I've ever seen - just in the last 1-2 years - prior to that, it was just the occasional AR, especially indoors. I don't don't mean I rarely saw them - I mean now every time I'm at the range there are at least 2-3 folks with an AR.

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 07:37 AM
:D:D:D

No. Not true. We now are now enlightened that the AK is a "man's rifle" and a AR-15 sounds like a "pogo stick". :eek::rolleyes::D Regardless if it's firing .50 Beowulf, .458SOCOM or 6.8SPC, so you must have your code-talk mixed up.:neener:

I have seen no statistics, but in my small world sampling I see WAY more AR's at my 4 ranges than I've ever seen - just in the last 1-2 years - prior to that, it was just the occasional AR, especially indoors. I don't don't mean I rarely saw them - I mean now every time I'm at the range there are at least 2-3 folks with an AR.
Did I hurt your feelings? If I did, let me know, but until then personal jabs are noted.

OilyPablo
October 2, 2012, 07:47 AM
Did I hurt your feelings? If I did, let me know, but until then personal jabs are noted.

No feelings hurt here. But man you sure have thin skin if you think my comments are "personal jabs". "Noted" Wow. What is THAT supposed to mean? I don't even know you. I just know what I read and some of your recent comment are just silly. Nothing personal. My opinion. We all know you prefer the AK platform and I duly note that and you take it personally. You call the AK a "man's gun" and make some goofy comment about the AR sounding like a "pogo stick" and tell ME to take the High Road. Again - Please.

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 07:56 AM
No feelings hurt here. But man you sure have thin skin if you think my comments are "personal jabs". "Noted" Wow. What is THAT supposed to mean? I don't even know you. I just know what I read and some of your recent comment are just silly. Nothing personal. My opinion. We all know you prefer the AK platform and I duly note that and you take it personally. You call the AK a "man's gun" and make some goofy comment about the AR sounding like a "pogo stick" and tell ME to take the High Road. Again - Please.
Those statements are generalized, not meant to ruffle feathers or intended for any one member. Those are my personal observations; one rifle that is unapologetically rougher to hold, shoot, and is ready for battle in any condition with nary a falter. The other is a "Barbie doll", modular and excepting of any and all modifications and equally as formidable but designed by an engineer and not a soldier. You attack the poster, not what's posted. Notice I never said the AK was a better seller than an AR, I own ARs, and I'm sure they are selling better now than ever. Calling my comments "silly" or "goofy" , whether I'm thin skinned as so uneloquently informed, is a smidge déclassé.

If I remember correctly, I wasn't even the one who brought up an AKM to begin with. Read post 52, making your own observation, then me mine, and watch the degradation from there on.

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 08:10 AM
AR is the new code-talk for Mosin Nagant, riiight?
Those sell quite a lot too.

benEzra
October 2, 2012, 08:14 AM
Now its 1 in 4?
No, that was several years ago (it's been a while, but I'm thinking around 2007), and was only a rough comparison of production numbers of 33 AR manufacturers compared to the total production of centerfire rifles that year. That was from the BATFE annual production statistics, I just added up the numbers in Excel.

henschman
October 2, 2012, 01:12 PM
The production stats wouldn't reflect importation of surplus rifles, like the Mosin-Nagant.

fatcat4620
October 2, 2012, 01:35 PM
No, that was several years ago (it's been a while, but I'm thinking around 2007), and was only a rough comparison of production numbers of 33 AR manufacturers compared to the total production of centerfire rifles that year. That was from the BATFE annual production statistics, I just added up the numbers in Excel.
There are 33 makers cutting lowers these days?

Warp
October 2, 2012, 02:06 PM
The production stats wouldn't reflect importation of surplus rifles, like the Mosin-Nagant.

Correct.

Not that the Nagant could compete, on a sales volume level, with ARs, but imports would add to the total centerfire rifle total

fatcat4620
October 2, 2012, 02:11 PM
Correct.

Not that the Nagant could compete, on a sales volume level, with ARs, but imports would add to the total centerfire rifle total
Yeah because they only made 37,000,000 nagant rifles. We make that many ARs in a day. Sarc

amprecon
October 2, 2012, 02:30 PM
I never liked the rifle.....until it became available in a alternate caliber, then I really started looking into it.

I was convinced it was a major POS. But after much research and hands-on experience I changed my perception and bought one in 6.8spc.

Now....I could get rid of every other rifle I have and be totally content with my 6.8 AR for every conceivable situation.

I've stocked up on 6.8 ammo having a couple thousand rounds and should be good for awhile.

Warp
October 2, 2012, 02:37 PM
Yeah because they only made 37,000,000 nagant rifles. We make that many ARs in a day. Sarc

Yup, all of those Nagants are sold annually in the US. Good call.

cougar1717
October 2, 2012, 03:22 PM
Why do you think is it a hot seller?

It has been previously banned and the current political climate since 2008 has concerned many that high capacity semi-auto rifles may fall under similar legislation in the future.


Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?

Too good of a deal at the time not to pass up. (That was before all this present craziness.)

What is it's primary use? - not originally asked (but should have been IMHO)

Range toy.


How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?

Thirteen thousand rounds in 30 round clips placed in ammo cans and stashed in my storage unit JIC the gov't bans 5.56 one day. I also keep my tactical wheelbarrow, ballistic vest, fatigues, two years worth of MRE's, and my "Yes, I am an operator" t-shirt there...

Seriously though, enough to go plinking but not enough to be considered a hoarder.

Warp
October 2, 2012, 04:53 PM
30 round magazines. ;)

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 05:38 PM
30 round magazines. ;)
Irks you too, huh!

back40
October 2, 2012, 05:45 PM
fatcat, you can't read very well, can you? 33 mfrs was what he compared when he did the research (2007). do some homework, there are more companies making ar's than you can shake a stick at.

http://www.gunquester.com/Sidebarpages/manufacturers/brandtabledata.html

you people really get your panties in a bunch don't you?

fatcat4620
October 2, 2012, 06:15 PM
fatcat, you can't read very well, can you? 33 mfrs was what he compared when he did the research (2007). do some homework, there are more companies making ar's than you can shake a stick at.

http://www.gunquester.com/Sidebarpages/manufacturers/brandtabledata.html

you people really get your panties in a bunch don't you?
I take paletto state from your list. Do the cut lowers or sell parts?

back40
October 2, 2012, 06:46 PM
they build and sell rifles under their name, just like a ton of others.

what exactly is your point, provided that you actually have one?

Warp
October 2, 2012, 06:50 PM
[Palmetto State Armory] builds and sells rifles under their name, just like a ton of others.


They sure do.

fatcat4620
October 2, 2012, 07:21 PM
So are you counting ARs from companies that dont machine lowers?

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 07:47 PM
If all ARs, of all makes and calibers, count together as a singular sales number, wouldn't that be true of bolt action rifles? There's a lot of those sold too.

back40
October 2, 2012, 07:49 PM
fatcat, you've clearly proven that it's a waste of time talking to you. find another thread to troll.

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 07:52 PM
So are you counting ARs from companies that dont machine lowers?
If they're American made, marketed, and sold...then I'd say yeah. Sold in the US is the name of the game, even if the lower is machined in Turkeydurkeystan and the upper in Massachusetts. American sales is the point.

fatcat4620
October 2, 2012, 08:17 PM
If they're American made, marketed, and sold...then I'd say yeah. Sold in the US is the name of the game, even if the lower is machined in Turkeydurkeystan and the upper in Massachusetts. American sales is the point.
But if aero machines 1000 lowers for palmetto they tell the BAFT they manufactured 1000 firearms. Palmetto then uses those lowers to build 1000 rifles and sells them. Palmetto also reports the rifle sales to BAFT. So how many rifles have been produced?

Also I have never heard of a lower manufactured outside of the united states. It might be illegal.

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 08:32 PM
But if aero machines 1000 lowers for palmetto they tell the BAFT they manufactured 1000 firearms. Palmetto then uses those lowers to build 1000 rifles and sells them. Palmetto also reports the rifle sales to BAFT. So how many rifles have been produced?

Also I have never heard of a lower manufactured outside of the united states. It might be illegal.
You've also never heard of Turkeydurkeystan.

The firearm is the lower, so 1000 rifles are sold in accordance with the ATF.

Warp
October 2, 2012, 10:11 PM
If all ARs, of all makes and calibers, count together as a singular sales number, wouldn't that be true of bolt action rifles? There's a lot of those sold too.

No, just like all semi auto rifles don't count as ARs

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

Warp
October 2, 2012, 10:13 PM
But if aero machines 1000 lowers for palmetto they tell the BAFT they manufactured 1000 firearms. Palmetto then uses those lowers to build 1000 rifles and sells them. Palmetto also reports the rifle sales to BAFT. So how many rifles have been produced?

Also I have never heard of a lower manufactured outside of the united states. It might be illegal.

Did I miss where somebody was counting manufacture and sales separately and then adding them together?? :confused:

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 10:35 PM
No, just like all semi auto rifles don't count as ARs

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.
So, then you're saying only 556 direct impingement AR15s are what counts? ARs just happen to be A semi rifle. Bolt rifle is a bolt rifle. That encompasses alot, whereas AR15s that are only DI and 556 is just the tip of the iceberg. We aren't comparing gas piston ARs vs controlled round feed here. If its platform vs platform, then I'd say bolt action rifles are competition.

I understand just fine. Be fair to the other rifles. If all gas operating systems, calibers, and manufacturers count for the AR15, then bolt rifles of different caliber, feed system, and manufacturer count too. In which case, I'd like to see THAT sales comparison.

back40
October 2, 2012, 10:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoMQJf5vKI

meanmrmustard
October 2, 2012, 10:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoMQJf5vKI
Ha..ha. Ha.

Warp
October 2, 2012, 11:20 PM
So, then you're saying only 556 direct impingement AR15s are what counts? ARs just happen to be A semi rifle. Bolt rifle is a bolt rifle. That encompasses alot, whereas AR15s that are only DI and 556 is just the tip of the iceberg. We aren't comparing gas piston ARs vs controlled round feed here. If its platform vs platform, then I'd say bolt action rifles are competition.

I understand just fine. Be fair to the other rifles. If all gas operating systems, calibers, and manufacturers count for the AR15, then bolt rifles of different caliber, feed system, and manufacturer count too. In which case, I'd like to see THAT sales comparison.


In that case it's most likely semi auto > bolt. "AR15" wins again

fatcat4620
October 2, 2012, 11:56 PM
Did I miss where somebody was counting manufacture and sales separately and then adding them together?? :confused:
It seemed that the ONLY person who tried to come up with real numbers beyond internet "i said so" was including sales figures from companies who do not produce lowers and therefore do not produce AR 15s. The fact that no person has been able to point to any real source for numbers speaks volumes. The OP did not even try to show how it had the highest sales volume. He made an unfounded statement. I know it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to have the most popular rifle and that makes you feel the need to defend it. All I ask for is REAL numbers or this is just another internet lie.

Warp
October 3, 2012, 12:09 AM
It seemed that the ONLY person who tried to come up with real numbers beyond internet "i said so" was including sales figures from companies who do not produce lowers and therefore do not produce AR 15s. The fact that no person has been able to point to any real source for numbers speaks volumes. The OP did not even try to show how it had the highest sales volume. He made an unfounded statement. I know it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to have the most popular rifle and that makes you feel the need to defend it. All I ask for is REAL numbers or this is just another internet lie.

So I didn't miss anything. Okay, just checking.

M1GarandDeerHunter
October 3, 2012, 12:55 AM
Best Selling Rifle in America
AR-15 - The best selling type of rifle in America.

This opens up lots of areas for discussion...

1 Why do you think is it a hot seller?

2 Do you have one?

3 Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?

4 Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?

5 How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?
__________________
Bud Parker
1SG, US Army, Retired

Back to the original question that Top asked about, I think its an interesting question, so I'll answer it.
1) Dude, these things just work! You can have it your way, any way, or no way! Cool factor is HIGH. Durable. Fun. Affordable. American. Accurate! RELIABLE.
2)Yup, a bunch of them.
3) Started shooting them when I was 12 years old. Was the first HP rifle I ever shot. M-16A1. Pops was an E8 and connected, so I got lots of trigger time on one in a hole under some Sgt. watchful eye.
Used it in the US Army. Know it well.
Shot a TON of matches with it. It wins baby!
Plink with it. Hunt with it.
Teach kids and new shooters with it.
Cheap to reload, parts are cheap and available, lots of brass available!
Idiot proof, hard to goof in take down.
Lasts. Ive seen barrels with half their rifling gone still shoot reasonably well at 200 yds and under.
Also, almost UNBELIEVABLE number of variations and calibers.
4) Mainly dealers, or directly from mfg. built a few too.
5) Lots, not sure how much. For real. 10k plus is a guess. Load it and shoot it baby! Turn that ammo into SKILL!!

Comments:

Guys and Gals be it known that I am a LOVER of 30 Cal. and Garand type rifles in particular , however, and I mean HOWEVER, because Ive coached, trained, and taught civillians and military how to shoot I think the AR is a SPLENDID rifle to learn on!! Recoil is very manageable, and the weapon will not destroy your position if its not perfect like a 30 will. There are FAR MORE competitors that are women and children than there was years ago due to this fact. This means more gun owners and more political clout. Plus I know plenty of guys and gals that dont shoot matches but shoot for fun or hunt, that love their Remington or whatever X brand AR hunting or tacticool rifle. Auto loaders, more specifically AR and older Garand style rifles are the next gen. hunting and go to longarm of Americans. They have taken their rightful place alongside the muzzle loaders, single shot, bolt action and lever action rifles. I say "Welcome to the family". :)

Cee Zee
October 3, 2012, 04:39 AM
The AR-15 platform has been the top selling centerfire rifle in the United States for years

Now that I have no problem believing. But lumping all AR's together it only seemed fair to lump all rimfire semi-autos together too and I seriously doubt the AR sells more than the semi-auto rimfires. It's sort of an odd way of grouping things either way though. There may be some way of wording the question without just outright excluding rimfires so that the AR's come out on top.

meanmrmustard
October 3, 2012, 07:33 AM
Now that I have no problem believing. But lumping all AR's together it only seemed fair to lump all rimfire semi-autos together too and I seriously doubt the AR sells more than the semi-auto rimfires. It's sort of an odd way of grouping things either way though. There may be some way of wording the question without just outright excluding rimfires so that the AR's come out on top.
That was my same point with bolt actions. Not all semi autos are ARs, but a bolt action is just that. I think numbers to put with the statement may be helpful evidence for ARs being number one.

meanmrmustard
October 3, 2012, 07:43 AM
In that case it's most likely semi auto > bolt. "AR15" wins again
Doubtful that direct impingement ar15s chambered in 556 have outsold bolt rifles of every flavor. Once again, if sales counts include ARs of every chambering and gas operating system, then all feeding systems and chamberings for bolt actions would have to as well for numbers not to be fudged.

M1A is not an AR.
BAR is not an AR.
M1 Carbine is not an AR.
AKs are not ARs.

M700 is a bolt rifle.
XBolt is a bolt rifle.
American is a bolt.
M77 is a bolt.
So on, and so forth. There really isn't a "type" of bolt rifle setting it apart from another. Since straight pull actions aren't made anymore to my knowledge, bolt actions are nominally a singular group based on design. There's several different operating system encompassed when you say "semi auto", which then you'd be right: I'm sure there's more semis sold annually. I'm simply saying, what are the numbers of ARs (gas piston, DI, blowback) of all calibers vs. bolt action rifles?

benEzra
October 3, 2012, 09:13 AM
M700 is a bolt rifle.
XBolt is a bolt rifle.
American is a bolt.
M77 is a bolt.
So on, and so forth. There really isn't a "type" of bolt rifle setting it apart from another. Since straight pull actions aren't made anymore to my knowledge, bolt actions are nominally a singular group based on design. There's several different operating system encompassed when you say "semi auto", which then you'd be right: I'm sure there's more semis sold annually. I'm simply saying, what are the numbers of ARs (gas piston, DI, blowback) of all calibers vs. bolt action rifles?
Well, lumping all AR's together is like lumping all Mosin-Nagants together, not all bolt-actions. Lumping all centerfire bolt-action rifles together would be like lumping all gas-operated centerfire semiautos together (mini-14/30, M1 Garand, M1A, Remington 7400, AR-15, BAR, SKS, AK, FNAR, SCAR, Sig 556, AR-180, etc.) rather than just the AR.

The reason so many manufacturers make AR's and not, say, Remington M700's, is that the AR design is in the public domain, so that (say) Noveske does not have to get permission from Colt/FN/Armalite/whoever to make one. But a Rock River upper or lower, a Noveske upper or lower, or a Bushmaster upper or lower are the same rifle; you can take all 3 rifles apart, mix and match parts, put them back together, and they will work.

There are a few bolt rifles like that, that are directly comparable, for example the Mosin-Nagant platform---a bolt from a Russian M91/30 will fit and function in a Finnish M39 made at Sako, a Polish M44, or a Romanian Mosin of whatever flavor, so it makes sense to speak of overall Mosin-Nagant popularity rather than splitting hairs over M1891, 91/30, M28, M39, M44. The various vintages and manufacturers of M1903 can be grouped together similarly, I suspect, though there is less variance in that platform than there is with Mosins.

Since the overwhelming majority of AR's are 5.56x45mm/.223 and DI, it doesn't change the equation much to limit the comparison to that design. But a 5.56x45mm AR and a 6.8mm AR are the same rifle just as a Remington 700 in .308 and a Remington 700 in 7mm-08 (or whatever) are the same platform.

The best analogy comes from the handgun world. It is fair to say that (at least until recently) the 1911 (or even "the 1911 in .45 ACP") was one of the top selling centerfire pistols in the United States, even though 1911's are actually made by many different manufacturers and any single 1911 manufacturer only had a piece of that pie.

Cee Zee
October 3, 2012, 05:58 PM
The reason so many manufacturers make AR's and not, say, Remington M700's, is that the AR design is in the public domain

That plus the fact that a lot of people want that design because of it's background and connection to our military. Military rifles always gain a lot of popularity.

It was sort of a poorly defined criteria for what constitutes a particular rifle. It's almost like defining all flintlock, long barrel, breech loading rifles as a single rifle even though hundreds of people actually made the Kentucky Long Rifle. And even at that a lot of people call them Pennsylvania Long Rifles. It's a very broad category and other rifle don't fit into a similar peg hole so saying the AR is the leading seller is almost like saying 4 wheel cars are the leading selling automotives. It's true enough but does it really give us a lot of information. There were a lot of 3 wheeled cars at one time. But lumping all 4 wheel cars together because of a common design strategy doesn't seem to make much of a point unless you define what the competition is.

It just seems it would have made for a better response if the OP had just said AR's are popular and very good rifles and then asked people why that's true. Personally I've seen a lot of them that weren't reliable as some suggest btw. They're still great rifles for the most part and I wouldn't toss one in the river if someone gave it to me. I'd probably think long and hard about buying into the platform if I wasn't already so deep in another platform too.

Warp
October 3, 2012, 06:18 PM
It just seems it would have made for a better response if the OP had just said AR's are popular and very good rifles and then asked people why that's true. Personally I've seen a lot of them that weren't reliable as some suggest btw.

A lot of companies cut every corner they can while putting out a crap product as cheaply as possible, and/or spend far too much of their budget on marketing.

Lots of bad magazines out there too.

Cee Zee
October 4, 2012, 02:40 AM
I realize that Warp. But the rifles they are selling are still AR's. But even a lot of the so called name brand stuff has jammed a lot in my experience. I've seen a lot of guys at the range fighting with them because they were jammed up tight. They'd get them loose and fire a few more rounds and they would jam again. I didn't understand why they didn't try to fix the problem after they got the jam cleared because it was obviously going to happen again. I suppose some of them did but not all.

Don't get me wrong. I've seen lots of AR's that worked very well. But they generally cost more and fired larger caliber rounds. Maybe it's a thing with the .223 / 5.56 that it just doesn't have enough power to make guns cycle if they have even a slight problem. I'm no expert so I'm just guessing here. I just know what I've seen.

It certainly wasn't bad enough to keep me from buying an AR. It wasn't even close.

Swampman
October 6, 2012, 02:35 AM
Quote:
"Maybe it's a thing with the .223 / 5.56 that it just doesn't have enough power to make guns cycle if they have even a slight problem."

Yes, obviously the M-16 family was designed around other larger, more powerful, calibers. All these "boutique" manufacturers trying to shoehorn the 5.56x45 in there was clearly a mistake.

AR-10s notwithstanding, the AR-15/M-16 in .223/5.56 has a reasonably good track record. It was good enough that our local PD adopted them. It's possible that there may even be other organizations out there that use the platform in that caliber, but I'm not sure....

Swampman
October 7, 2012, 09:36 PM
Hey CeeZee!

In your last entry on this thread, #119, posted on October 3, 2012, 04:58 PM you claim that...

Quote:
"It certainly wasn't bad enough to keep me from buying an AR. It wasn't even close."

That is a statement that would lead any reader unfamiliar with your post history to conclude that you had carefully considered the pros and cons of the AR, decided that the pros outweighed the cons, and purchased an AR.

But just the day before you said in post #72 (October 2, 2012, 02:46 AM) that...

Quote:
"I do not own an AR although I don't have any particular reason not to. I just already had another platform in place when the AR became more affordable."

Here's a link:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=679068&page=3
The post is about the 2/3rds of the way down the page.

Since it's been pointed out that you're the only poster in this thread to bring up any numbers, I thought that others might want a chance to judge the veracity of any information that you supply for themselves.

See, despite what you said about me in that other thread, I CAN read!

Is your SKS a rare " Sino-Soviet model Norinco", with the 22 mm grenade launcher and gas system cut-off switch that you expounded upon at length in THIS thread?

Link:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=679115&page=2
(Post #30, about 1/3rd of the way down the page)

Link to the rare "Sino-Soviet model Norinco":
http://www.unclehenrys.com/init/classifieds/ad_detail/4082786?_next=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unclehenrys.com%2Finit%2Fclassifieds%2Fby_seller%2F347995%234082786


Fondly,
The Ignorant Troll

Warp
October 7, 2012, 09:38 PM
Very interesting.

Cee Zee...do you own an AR?

Swampman
October 7, 2012, 10:19 PM
Cee Zee,
While you're posting your response, can you explain about the "Class III license" that you talk about in post #72 of this thread when telling people that you DON'T have an AR?

Quote:
"Of course the original AR is a true assault weapon but I don't have a Class III license and I don't have a desire to get one."

All I've got is a couple of $200 stamps for my suppressors, but no "Class III license", so please, please, PLEASE, tell me how I can obtain the all important "license" so ATF agents don't come and arrest me!

No one at ATF TOLD me that I needed a license during the purchase process, neither did my SOT when I paid for the cans!

Please help me CeeZee! I'm pleading for your expert assistance!

The Ignorant Troll

Swampman
October 11, 2012, 07:54 PM
I've given this some thought and decided to throw this out there.
The "AR" in AR-15 originally stood for Armalite.

Since Colt purchased the rights to the name and design, I'll grant that Colt made rifles can be real AR-15s.
Unfortunately, although they have the right, they long ago lost the huevos to use it, as a quick browse through their online catalog will quickly show.

Now take a deep breath and let's say ALL the current Colt semi auto rifle models together real fast without stopping!

LE6940, LE6940P, LE6920SOCOM, LE6920, AR6720, AR6450, LE6920MP-FDE, AR6721, LE6920MP-B, LE6920CMP-B, LE6920CA, CR6720CA, CR6724CA, LE6940CA, MT6400, MT6400R, CR6720, CR6724, MT6731, MT6700 and last but not least the LE901-16S which doesn't really qualify since it's a .308. I just included it to show that nobody got left out.

Those of you who didn't actually pass out from lack of oxygen may have noticed that there wasn't an AR-15 mentioned.

Even though Colt no longer really wants or uses the AR-15 moniker they employ a mean pack of snappy lawyers to make sure no other manufacturers do either, kinda like a wolverine messin' on the food he's too stuffed to eat, just to make sure nothin' ELSE gets any good out of it.

Armalite makes AR-10s, AR-30s and AR-50s, but they don't make a single AR-15, that's a Colt brand. They make M-15s instead

From Daniel Defense, who makes M4's, DMP's, LWP's, PRP's, and SSP's all the way down to Century International Arms who make yet another M-15, proving that Armalite lawyers these days aren't near as good at copyright protection as their predecessors were, or maybe they stole the name from Century, or maybe they BOTH stole it from some mom and pop gun maker, I dunno, if you want good legal info, watch Judge Judy.

The point is that you can't find a single manufacturer of AR-15's left in America, probably in the whole world outside of a few shady Chinese factories that also produce genuine Rolax watches and Soney TV sets

Now MARKETERS, they're a different story altogether! They'll happily advertise a Noveske, Daniel Defense or Armalite AR-15, I guess they figure (correctly it would seem), that they're just too small and numerous for the Colt Shylocks to subdue. Either that or there's some legal loophole that allows marketers to get away with stuff that manufacturers can't.

HOWEVER... Just because Midway advertises a "Noveske AR-15 NST A3 Flat-Top Upper Assembly" that doesn't mean that it IS one, any more than the Chinese made "Rolax", watch is a Rolex.
You can argue parts interchangeability, quality and the accuracy with which it keeps time. Even if the counterfeit watch has parts that mesh perfectly with those of a real Rolex, keeps time with greater accuracy and can't be differentiated from a Rolex, even by an expert, IT AIN'T A ROLEX! It's not a "Rolex type" watch either, its as much a counterfeit as a perfectly reproduced 100 Dollar Bill.

Face it guys and gals, the "AR-15 type rifle" isn't the biggest selling rifle in America, it's a counterfeit pure and simple. Except for a constantly decreasing number of ancient Armalites and old AR-15's from the pre "self castration" days when Colt was a "Firearms Company", not a "Manufacturing Company".

The AR-15 is EXTINCT!

fatcat4620
October 11, 2012, 08:01 PM
Dang, swamp man dropped a bomb!

meanmrmustard
October 11, 2012, 08:07 PM
Wow.

ol' scratch
October 11, 2012, 08:22 PM
I have a few AR rifles and have built a few for others. All of my rifles are built, and that is part of the reason I went AR. There is only one lower I didn't get from a licensed dealer and that is the one I built on an 80 percent receiver. Great rifles for many reasons. Easy to work on, cheap to shoot, easy to reload for, easy to find parts for, light, easy to customize. I really like AR type rifles.

Ammo-I typically keep around 1500 rounds around, about half of that is reloaded ammo. I keep components and powder too, but I reload for everything I own. I shoot all off that in a season between the three rifles typically.

Ash
October 11, 2012, 09:01 PM
The AR is no more extinct than the 1911 is. Patents last 25 years, so the patent on the AR ended before some on this board were even born. Trademarks, on the other hand, are something different. Even so, semantics do not mean the rifle is extinct, merely a trademarked word.

fatcat4620
October 11, 2012, 10:03 PM
I have played the parts swap game with my pardner pump and 870. Does that make then the same? Even ordered replacement parts for the pardner from remington.

benEzra
October 12, 2012, 11:11 AM
Face it guys and gals, the "AR-15 type rifle" isn't the biggest selling rifle in America, it's a counterfeit pure and simple. Except for a constantly decreasing number of ancient Armalites and old AR-15's from the pre "self castration" days when Colt was a "Firearms Company", not a "Manufacturing Company".

The AR-15 is EXTINCT!
By that logic, I suppose nobody shoots AR's anymore, the AR does not dominate everything from 3-gun to USPSA carbine to Camp Perry style matches to recreational centerfire plinking, the AR is not the most common HD carbine in U.S. homes, they don't sell AR's at Walmart, all the Eotechs and Aimpoints and lights and VFG's sold annually are not purchased for AR's, and .223 Remington is far and away the top selling caliber of centerfire rifle ammunition in the United States because of all those bolt-action varmint rifles...

In my opinion, this by any reasonable definition of the term is an "AR" or an AR-15 type rifle, just as a Wilson or Les Baer 1911 is just as much a 1911 as a Colt is:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=129320&d=1287541080

If you don't like the term "AR" or "AR-15 platform" or "AR-15 type rifle", make up your own, but whatever you choose to call it, that is the top selling rifle design in the United States. It is to centerfire rifles what the 1911 design was to pistols in the 1980s and early 1990s.

I have played the parts swap game with my pardner pump and 870. Does that make then the same? Even ordered replacement parts for the pardner from remington.
In my opinion, if I were assessing whether the 870 platform is the top selling design of pump shotgun in the United States, I'd consider any 870 to be an 870, regardless of maker, just like a 1911 is a 1911 whether or not it is made by Colt, and a M1 Garand is an M1 Garand regardless of who made it. Though I was not aware the design of the 870 is in the public domain (if it is, cool). Is the pardner built to the same blueprints as a Remington 870?

Halal Pork
October 12, 2012, 02:07 PM
"Why do you think is it a hot seller?"

I think sales are through the roof because it is just a huge fad. Why? I could only guess. Maybe watching the military on the news for the past 10+ years could help explain it. Maybe the gun rags putting three AR articles per issue could have something to do with it. Maybe the endless models and accessories and options wow people like a Swatch watch vendor might. So I'm not sure exactly why but I am sure that all things "tactical" have become a fad and it will fade away to some extent eventually.

"Do you have one?"

Yes.

"Why did you choose the AR-15 platform?"

Because I thought at some point I might want one out of a sense of nostalgia and they would no longer be available for sale due to legislation, executive order, or who knows what.

"Did you purchase it from a licensed dealer or a private individual?"

Yes.

"How much ammo do you keep on hand and why?"

Enough. Wish I had bought more when prices were better though.

powder
October 17, 2012, 11:42 PM
American Hunter Rem. 700 advert.: over 7 Million sold in the U.S.A.. I think it's got the AR beat. Love my M4 though. :)

Warp
October 18, 2012, 01:03 AM
American Hunter Rem. 700 advert.: over 7 Million sold in the U.S.A.. I think it's got the AR beat. Love my M4 though. :)

Doubtful

tarosean
October 18, 2012, 02:58 AM
Doubtful

Its been in production for 50 years.. It doesn't take that many a year to surpass 7m over that time frame. Wiki claims there have been over 11m Model 60's and over 5m 10/22's produced both have around the same production time frame, give or take, as the 700.

While there is no doubt that AR's have become quite popular in the last 8yrs. I dont think they are the top selling rifle. Price point is the main reason IMO.

I think it was Buds who put out their Top Selling list and it was dominated by inexpensive guns. While that is not a true picture of the over all firearms sales in the US, it gives you a slight glimpse of online firearms shoppers. You could also walk into most LGS, Big Box Sporting Goods store or even gun shows and the racks will also be dominated by the cheaper guns. Even on this board almost every single day there is a budget build thread wanting the cheapest entry to the AR world..

madcratebuilder
October 18, 2012, 07:00 AM
I'll add to this chatter. Look at all the AR specific internet shops, they are AR only and there are dozens of them. Name one other online shop that does a single style firearm, I can only think of one or two and those are for the 10/22.

Brick and mortar stores, dozens of AR only shops in the country, name one store that does another style of firearm only.

No other platform has the sales number to support this.

OilyPablo
October 18, 2012, 07:06 AM
What madcratebuilder posts makes total sense. To me "Best Selling" means a snapshot in time, as in NOW vs. total guns sold since 1950, for example. Add the brick and mortar places with all the web based shops, holy cow it's easy to see the AR-15 currently outsells anything currently.

I would love to see the true tally with AR, AK, bolt action all subdivided, etc

tarosean
October 18, 2012, 09:51 AM
Look at all the AR specific internet shops, they are AR only and there are dozens of them. Name one other online shop that does a single style firearm, I can only think of one or two and those are for the 10/22.

I know its hard to believe in this day and age but there are millions and millions of people who do not shop online or belong to forums, etc.

name one store that does another style of firearm only.

There are shotguns stores in some of the wealthiest places in the US.

I would love to see the true tally with AR, AK, bolt action all subdivided, etc

There is just no way... The ATF would know. However they only issue reports for Rifles, Pistols, Revolvers, and Shotguns lumped together. Manufacturer and Import/Export.


So we are left with bias or anecdotal evidence.

I like my AR, yet I also own the same guns listed above. (700BDL, Mod 60, 10/22, etc.) I am just not convinced they beat out the simple 22LRs in total sales.

benEzra
October 18, 2012, 10:09 AM
I like my AR, yet I also own the same guns listed above. (700BDL, Mod 60, 10/22, etc.) I am just not convinced they beat out the simple 22LRs in total sales.
The AR is the best selling centerfire rifle in the United States, but I would agree that rimfire sales probably top the centerfire numbers. I assume (but have not verified) that the 10/22 is the top selling rimfire.

powder
October 18, 2012, 05:42 PM
Name an online gunshop that has the market power to only support one kind of gun? STI, Glock, SIG, and Browning vendors and aftermarket companies come to mind, just to name a few.

The best selling rifle in America is the Remington Model 700. That was my guess a few weeks ago, and their advert. in NRA's American Hunter just proved it to me.

I'd narrow it down to the Toyota test as well, as I call it: still in the field rifles. 700s are everywhere, forever.

Warp
October 18, 2012, 06:03 PM
Name an online gunshop that has the market power to only support one kind of gun? STI, Glock, SIG, and Browning vendors and aftermarket companies come to mind, just to name a few.

The best selling rifle in America is the Remington Model 700. That was my guess a few weeks ago, and their advert. in NRA's American Hunter just proved it to me.

I'd narrow it down to the Toyota test as well, as I call it: still in the field rifles. 700s are everywhere, forever.

Their advertisement proves it?

What do they claim, exactly?

fatcat4620
October 18, 2012, 06:41 PM
Any one able to come up with any numbers yet?

WVRJ
October 18, 2012, 11:40 PM
A lot of factors are driving the rifle's popularity.Reliable,accurate,mild recoil,looks,very easy to customize,easy to service,the list is long and I know I didn't get it all.I was dead set against them,thought they wouldn't be accurate,so I stuck with bolt guns.When I decided I needed something to beat around in the tractor cab for the coyotes,I saw one for sale in one of the local newspapers.The guy let me put a few rounds through it,and when the first three rounds grouped inside 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards with a red dot sight,I handed him his money.I added a Leupold Mark AR,and what was supposed to be a beater rifle is now safely tucked away and gets shot a lot because it's just a damn fun rifle to shoot.Contempt prior to investigation...

Ky Larry
October 19, 2012, 02:44 PM
I think people like them because they work. They were designed to chop up people and they do this very well. Also, there is something for just about any price range. Ammo is relativel cheap. There are lots of aftermarket addons and dodads. Simple manual of arms. I don't have one but I do have an AK.

el Godfather
October 19, 2012, 03:13 PM
I like the smooth AR platform. I like the mild recoil of 223 in burst fire. Accuracy is great.

justice06rr
October 23, 2012, 12:24 AM
For what its worth (maybe not much), "most produced" is is not the same as "best-selling".

Although the AR15 platform not be the most produced, there is no denying that is the most commonly used and probably best-selling (the Military and LEO agencies included) type of rifle. That is a matter of semantics though.

3twelves
December 4, 2012, 08:59 PM
Title should be most overrated rifle in america...

fatcat4620
December 4, 2012, 09:16 PM
For what its worth (maybe not much), "most produced" is is not the same as "best-selling".

Although the AR15 platform not be the most produced, there is no denying that is the most commonly used and probably best-selling (the Military and LEO agencies included) type of rifle. That is a matter of semantics though.

So how we are including military and leo sales?

Swami
December 5, 2012, 01:01 AM
Because you can have the same gun everyone else has, while having a different gun than anyone else has!

Had one, sold it; had an AR-10 also, sold it. I guess they just aren't my "thing". I prefer the .223 and .308 rounds in a bolt-action format. YMMV!

JFtheGR8
December 5, 2012, 07:34 AM
The AWB of '94 is why they're popular. Before then, very very few people were buying them and there were only maybe 3 manufacturers.

^^^ This, I got one because I expect the ban to be reinstated and it's fun to shoot. I bought a stripped LRB lower from a local gun shop and ordered a Del-Ton rifle kit. I usually have 200 rounds on hand at any given time.


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