Angled Foregrip legal?


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Ak Guy
September 28, 2012, 07:55 PM
Is an angled foregrip (like from Magpul) legal on a Mini Draco, without the $200 tax stamp etc? If so, will it fit on a Mini? ......Thanx......

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M-Cameron
September 28, 2012, 08:43 PM
the ATF has stated that Angled foregrips are legal on a pistol without a tax stamp.

it is because when they wrote the law, they specified that only vertical foregrips required the tax.

if you do a google search, you should be able to find the ATF letter somewhere online, or you can write the ATF yourself.

as for will it fit, if it has a long enough rail, it should fit.

EDIT: found the letter. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx/edit?hl=en

GreySmoke2
September 28, 2012, 08:52 PM
For those with limited realestate try the

Strike Industries Cobra Tactical Fore Grip

Its only 4" long VS Magpuls 5.25".

Nice little AFG for about $25.

Sam Cade
September 28, 2012, 09:25 PM
Strike Industries Cobra Tactical Fore Grip


Oh! I like that!

It has the "wings" like the AFG1 did.

Ak Guy
September 28, 2012, 09:32 PM
I agree, I lke that too. And it would seem to fit on a Midwest Ind. mini-Draco rail, I'd guess.

Ak Guy
September 29, 2012, 05:52 AM
Good info, and thanx for the BATFE letter, which says the Magpul AFG is OK. I wonder if "all other" AFG's are OK too? Like the Cobra one mentioned above? Seems like it SHOULD be, but...........??

M-Cameron
September 29, 2012, 10:30 AM
Good info, and thanx for the BATFE letter, which says the Magpul AFG is OK. I wonder if "all other" AFG's are OK too? Like the Cobra one mentioned above? Seems like it SHOULD be, but...........??


common sense would dictate that it would.....but then again this is the ATF we are talking about here.

personally i would have no reserves about using another brand of AFG.....but if you want to be certain i would write the ATF and get an official answer in writing.

Quiet
September 29, 2012, 10:40 AM
Currently...
BATFE NFA Branch is saying that horizontal forward grips and angled forward grips are legal on handguns.
And vertical forward grips are not legal on handguns, unless the handgun is made into an AOW.

Ak Guy
September 29, 2012, 08:54 PM
Thanx. Good info. Of course, it begs the question about how much angle would still be considered "AFG" ? If the Magpul is something like 30deg, how about 45deg? Or 50deg, or 65deg, or 89.9 deg? I wonder where they draw the line, and "AFG" becomes "VFG" ?

Nickel Plated
September 30, 2012, 10:00 PM
Ahh the ambiguity of poorly written laws. Don't you love it.

GarySTL
September 30, 2012, 10:09 PM
If you hold the gun with the barrel pointing to the sky, what was a vertical foregrip becomes a horizontal foregrip, right? Maybe they really meant a foregrip perpendicular to the centerline of the barrel?

Nickel Plated
September 30, 2012, 10:27 PM
Perpendicular really just makes it even easier to get around the law. Since "perpendicular" specifically refers to 90 degrees. So if the grip is even slightly angled (like a Thompson foregrip) then it's not perpendicular.

Don't even try. These laws were broken from the very start and regardless of how you try to word it, I'm sure someone can pick out some workaround for it. :p

Quiet
October 2, 2012, 10:45 AM
Perpendicular really just makes it even easier to get around the law. Since "perpendicular" specifically refers to 90 degrees. So if the grip is even slightly angled (like a Thompson foregrip) then it's not perpendicular.

Don't even try. These laws were broken from the very start and regardless of how you try to word it, I'm sure someone can pick out some workaround for it. :p
FYI.
Thompson foregrip = vertical forward grip.

National Firearms Act of 1934 was created in response of the use of certain types of firearms by criminals, one of which was John Dillinger.
http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/images/dillenger.jpg

Notice the 1911 with Thompson 1928 foregrip?

It was a .38Super Colt 1911 with a compensator, forward vertical grip and high capacity (20 round) magazine.
It's one of the reasons why a handgun with a forward vertical grip is an AOW and regulated under the NFA of 1934.
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/John-Dillinger-M1911A1-Full-Auto.jpg

kozak6
October 3, 2012, 06:54 AM
It was also a machine pistol.

Anyways, I wish that were the case, since that at least makes sense at some level.

As far as I can tell, VFG-ed pistols weren't AOWs until the 1980's when VFG-ed KG9's and such made the scene.

The National Firearms Act says absolutely nothing about vertically foregripped pistols, and neither does the 1964 GCA.

VFG pistols are currently AOW's due to BATFE interpretive nonsense.

A pistol is defined as being A weapon originally designed, made and intended to fire a
projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one
hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of or
permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock
designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and
extending below the line of the bore(s).

So bolting on a VFG undoes all of that, and moves it into the category of AOW.

Even though there's all kinds of pistols out there with hooked triggerguards and such intended for two hand firing. Even though none of those are AOW's.

Since it makes no sense, it was almost smacked down in "US vs Davis". AOW charges were dropped when it looked like their nonsense wasn't going to float.

It could be fought and the interpretation changed if you were sufficiently brave.

Motorman2061
November 5, 2012, 12:05 PM
This info is great. Thank you.

Aaron Baker
November 5, 2012, 01:05 PM
weapon originally designed, made and intended to fire a
projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one
hand

This definition is precisely why ADDING a vertical foregrip shouldn't change something from a handgun to anything else, much less an AOW. The definition of a handgun has to do with how it was originally designed. If it was originally designed to be fired with one hand, you can add eight other grips to it, and it doesn't change how it was originally designed.

But since the ATF disagrees, it would definitely take a lawsuit.

Aaron

Zoogster
November 9, 2012, 02:39 PM
....don't wish to contribute nvm

sawdeanz
December 8, 2012, 07:55 PM
Wow good stuff I always assumed any foregrips were a no-no on pistols, so is this afg thing totally legal? Suddenly makes ar-pistols and the like make more sence. But I had also thought that fore-"straps" were illegal even though they aren't really angled or vertical

CHighfield
December 8, 2012, 08:12 PM
I'd like to point out that just because you find the law that makes the AFG legal doesn't mean anybody won't still try to tell you it's illegal and take your gun or report you. I would suggest getting a copy of that ATF letter to keep with the gun while it is put away, or whenever you go shooting.

MachIVshooter
December 9, 2012, 02:47 AM
Of course, it begs the question about how much angle would still be considered "AFG" ? If the Magpul is something like 30deg, how about 45deg? Or 50deg, or 65deg, or 89.9 deg? I wonder where they draw the line, and "AFG" becomes "VFG" ?

I suspect the defining characteristic is whether or not it's designed to wrap your thumb around the back side of it. While one could (maybe) stick their thumb through the Magpul AFG, I can't imagine it would be remotely comfortable, and it wasn't intended to be used that way, as witnessed by the finger locating protrusion.

Ak Guy
December 9, 2012, 03:10 AM
I got both the Magpul AFG and the Strike Industry's Cobra and tried each on my Mini-Draco. I MUCH prefere the Cobra.....it is a lot more versatile re: grip positions. With your thumb around the back, it's very much like a VFG. (I put the Magpul in the big box of holster rejects, etc.)

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