OK. So I carry a Bond derringer. Let's talk .45 Colt SD loads


PDA






Tallbald
September 29, 2012, 03:16 PM
Don't judge me, and don't harangue me. I carry a Bond derringer in .45 Colt/.410 3 inch. Right now I have only MagTech cowboy loads, but I'd like a little more uumph in my EDC gun.I really don't know if +P loaded is OK in the Bond, and I sure don't want +P+ since I'd like to keep my wrist intact. Tell me a standard pressure factory load good for my "fat man mad dash starter gun" please. Don

If you enjoyed reading about "OK. So I carry a Bond derringer. Let's talk .45 Colt SD loads" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
firesky101
September 29, 2012, 04:03 PM
Not sure what the bond is rated for, but there is no standard for +P .45 colt. All .45 colt that exceeds saami max psi is +P+, therefore you don't know what you are getting. If it were me, I would probably just carry the PDX1 loading from winchester and not worry about it.

critter
September 29, 2012, 04:45 PM
A good standard .45 Colt load will work wonders. Hollow points if you are concerned about overpenetration.

gunlaw
September 29, 2012, 05:14 PM
Several years ago I had a box of winchester silvertips in 45 colt. Not sure if they still make 'em.

481
September 29, 2012, 05:41 PM
Unless you can find a JHP that'll expand at the low muzzle velocities that are guaranteed with that 3" barrel, I'd go with Federal Personal Defense Ammunition 45 Long Colt, 225 gr. Semi-Wadcutter HP @ 830 fps. If it expands that's great, if it doesn't you get SWC performance with about 23.5" inches of penetration assuming a velocity of 750 fps from the muzzle.

wildcatter109
September 30, 2012, 12:28 AM
I think I would stick with standard loads in 45 colt with SD gun, just for contolability. The accuracy potential with any derringer is poor, even with the Bond which is as good as is available today and made for close range SD. When you have a nearly 1/2" slug with enough velocity to completely penetrate any human, the most important thing would be control. I have the 45acp in the bond with 3" barrels, I loose about 50 feet per second over my Commander (800 fps.), I wouldn't worry about power or performance. If you can control it and put a 225 to 260 grain slug in the center of a chest at 10 to 20 feet, just bee sure innocent by bystanders aren't standing behind them! The derringer is a closed breech system and will give better velocity than a 4" revolver in the same caliber!!

P.S. forgot to mention the strength, since the bond is one frame only the only difference in any model is barrel length and grip, you can buy any barrel or grip and change to any model you wish. They also use to make a 44 Mag barrel, which means +p should not be a problem with anything except self punishment and control.

KenW.
September 30, 2012, 01:17 AM
For derringer ranges, I carry my Bond loaded with .410 000 buck. I have fired slugs but wasn't very impressed, and .45 Colt is realy, really, hard to handle.
It's anyones guess where one solid slug will go when it leaves the derringer.

Try the.410 PDX with the disks and BB-size shot. I carry them on occasion.

Shrinkmd
October 16, 2012, 08:51 PM
I just shot my new 38/357 3" barrel and loved it. The 38 special and 38+p are easy shooting. I had some 158gr JSP 357 Magnum from Magtech, and they were stout, but not unbearable. I don't know if I would want to fire off a few boxes of them, however. I could shoot the 38's all day (except loading 2 at a time is a pain)

For a bigger caliber, I am set up for 44 Special. 45colt/410 would mean more dies and brass, which I'm not interested in right now. How punishing would a full power 44 special load be compared to the 357? I'm curious to try it...

MikeJackmin
October 16, 2012, 09:22 PM
Something to consider:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45colt.html

Scipio Africanus
October 16, 2012, 11:17 PM
Buffalo Bore anti-personel full wadcutter or their standard pressure heavy 255 grain semi-wadcutter should be effective and not treat your derringer to harshly.

TexAg
October 16, 2012, 11:39 PM
I'd go the full wadcutter route. You're unlikely to get expansion out of those low velocities out of that short barrel.

wlewisiii
October 17, 2012, 01:58 AM
I use a 250 gr LSWC behind 9 grains of Unique. It's not bad at all in a Ruger Blackhawk or a 625. In your derringer? Well, it's supposed to be ultimate emergency only. I'd _never_ test fire the **edited** at full power. Just pull it and do what you have to and pay the doctor the next day...

bluethunder1962
October 17, 2012, 02:13 AM
I love those guns. When I got mine they had a special you call and ge another barrel for half price. They have good cus service. They gave me two for half price. They are real good to talk to. I would try calling them and asking.

460Kodiak
October 17, 2012, 10:26 AM
The CD loads from Hornady would propbably work all right too.

ArchAngelCD
October 17, 2012, 04:17 PM
I'm still a fan of the Silvertip bullet from Winchester. Winchester puts out a 225gr Silvertip 45 Colt load that's rated @920 fps from a 5.5" barrel. That load should work well.

If you would rather use a "designer load" give DoubleTap a look. They have 2 standard pressure loads, one using a 160gr Barnes TAC-XP Lead Free bullet rated @935fps from a 2.5" Ruger Alaskan and the other a 185gr. Nosler JHP bullet rated @865fps from a Ruger Alaskan 2.5". both loads are probably better than most factory loads for SD. DT also has +P loads but they are loaded with heavy hunting bullets that are probably punishing is a Derringer like you have.

(I would use the Silvertips)
Hope this helps...

fastest45ever
October 17, 2012, 05:58 PM
The velocity potential is pretty low. the link to BBTI indicates standard SD loads to give you about 750 fps, with a 200 grain bullet. While it's clear that none of these loads are designed for such a short barrel, I think the bullet weight is a pretty good idea.

I would look at light for caliber, Keith, LFN, or maybe wadcutter type bullets, loaded with fast burning powder.

Hopefully the wound channel will be created by meplat and velocity, rather then bullet expansion. HP's at that velocity may not penetrate well enough, at least the standard HPS.

If you can handle the recoil, a 260 grain LFN would give you better penetration, and has a long proven track record, even under 800 fps.

Burt Blade
October 17, 2012, 11:40 PM
A contrarian opinion:

Use a serviceable mid-weight, mid-velocity round. Practice with it. Learn where you point and hit with it. Be confident and comfortable, because the gun will not be beating you up. A 200-225 grain SWC at 650-700 fps is enough thump for a fight in which a derringer is enough gun.

ArchAngelCD
October 18, 2012, 03:15 AM
The velocity potential is pretty low. the link to BBTI indicates standard SD loads to give you about 750 fps, with a 200 grain bullet. While it's clear that none of these loads are designed for such a short barrel, I think the bullet weight is a pretty good idea.

I would look at light for caliber, Keith, LFN, or maybe wadcutter type bullets, loaded with fast burning powder.

Hopefully the wound channel will be created by meplat and velocity, rather then bullet expansion. HP's at that velocity may not penetrate well enough, at least the standard HPS.

If you can handle the recoil, a 260 grain LFN would give you better penetration, and has a long proven track record, even under 800 fps.
So you don't think the numbers I posted from the DoubleTap ammo are good enough for carry? If i were to carry either of those 2 DoubleTap loads I would have complete confidence those Barns and Nosler bullets would not only expand but penetrate too at the reported velocities. As a matter of fact, when shot from a Derringer the velocities will probably be higher than when shot from the Alaskan because the Derringer has no barrel/cylinder gap especially since the Bond .45 has a 3" barrel and the Alaskan has a 2.5" barrel..

fastest45ever
October 18, 2012, 06:13 PM
Should have looked at the link.

It does appear that DT has tailored some .45 Colt loads for short barrels.
While I'd want to test it on my own Chronograph, I think you've found a couple excellent factory loads for a short barrel. The 165's are expensive, but at that velocity, they should expand and penetrate. I will say I have never shot that load, or bullet, in .45 Colt, so I'm guessing.

Buffalobore Barnes are expensive, but look like they would also develop really good velocity out of the 3" barrel:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=255
Both should be chronographed and tested.

They also make a cheaper, but not by much HP and full-wadcutter that would likely fall in the same area as the rounds you suggest:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=269
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=332

To sell me on hollowpoints, at velocity less then 1200 fps, that are slow expanding, you are going to have to show me some gel tests.

Hawk recommends as a minimum 1200 fps for their thick jacket, slow expanding HP's. Not familiar with Barnes, except in rifles, due to the extreme cost.

Problem I find is all of the above ammo choices, and .45 Colt in general, is the most over priced of any ammo category, other then .44 Special.
When you reload .45 Colt you get a real feel for how deep in your pocket these ammo companies are getting.

zxcvbob
October 18, 2012, 06:23 PM
Velocity is not going to be on your side, so go with a heavier bullet; 250 to 255 grain (260's if you can find them) SWC or RNFP or WFN. I would load my own midrange rounds, probably using Green Dot powder because of the short barrel.

fastest45ever
October 19, 2012, 06:30 AM
I think the point is it's kind of the value/crazy scale. There are rounds from DT and BB that are absurdly expensive, but they get the velocity with a relatively light bullet, and an excellent expanding bullet, if you are buying. The major manf's are using slower powders, and their loads suck for the short barrel guys.

So, it's up to the buyer.

2.50 for a .45 colt round? Buy a reloading press.

460Kodiak
October 19, 2012, 11:32 AM
As a matter of fact, when shot from a Derringer the velocities will probably be higher than when shot from the Alaskan because the Derringer has no barrel/cylinder gap especially since the Bond .45 has a 3" barrel and the Alaskan has a 2.5" barrel..


Yeah but I think Bond measures their bbl's the way an auto loader is measured. Don't they? Thus the chamber is included in the measurements. I don't know, maybe a lack of a cylinder gap would negate that .5 inch difference in bbl length.

You know, I have the snake slayer IV and I find that it is tremendously inaccurate with .45's. The rifling is so short to accomodate the 3 inch .410's that a 45 is not stablized very well. For the intended purpose, it's probably fine, but I stick with Federal #4 shot SD loads as a result. If you are intent on using .45's wouldn't a light bullet be stabilized easier by the extremely short rifling? That's why I suggest CD. Though, the pouder may not burn fast enough in that loading. Not sure.

ArchAngelCD
October 19, 2012, 12:18 PM
Yeah, the "designer ammo" available today is way too expansive IMO. Ammo prices were going up before the 2008 elections but after Obama won the prices just went crazy. They have come down a little but not much. There really is no good reason for $2.50/round prices... (That's why I reload, accurate ammo at a low cost)

zxcvbob
October 19, 2012, 12:40 PM
You know, I have the snake slayer IV and I find that it is tremendously inaccurate with .45's. The rifling is so short to accomodate the 3.5 inch .410's that a 45 is not stablized very well. For the intended purpose, it's probably fine, but I stick with Federal #4 shot SD loads as a result. If you are intent on using .45's wouldn't a light bullet be stabilized easier by the extremely short rifling? That's why I suggest CD. Though, the pouder may not burn fast enough in that loading. Not sure.

Who cares about accuracy with a derringer? You'll be shooting it at bad-breath distance. The only thing it really needs rifling for is to make it legal.

Actually, being able to make a 50' aimed shot with it would be kind of cool, mostly for bragging rights. But for the job it's intended to do, it's probably just fine like it is. I would use 250 grain bullets.

I bet .45 AR would make a good cartridge for a derringer. You might even could get clips for it to shoot .45 Auto.

460Kodiak
October 19, 2012, 12:53 PM
Who cares about accuracy with a derringer?

That's why I said "For its intended purpose"

Short distance inacurracy is not that big of a deal for this type of gun because they are really meant to be a belly gun.

Actually, being able to make a 50' aimed shot with it would be kind of cool,

I try to squeeze accuracy out of any gun. So yes, this would be cool.

Elessar
October 19, 2012, 01:01 PM
A lot of guys get banged up knuckles when shooting .45 Colt +P loads out of a full size Ruger Blackhawk. I'm guessing these would be a bad idea in a derringer. Not sure what the velocity is out of a barrel that size, but if you can't get at least 850 fps, avoid hollowpoints. However, Maybe a barnes bullet would be effective at low velocity?

saltydog452
October 19, 2012, 01:42 PM
Buffalo Bore has a 255 SWC that supposedly steps out at 1,000 fps from a std length barrel. They also claim that it is a 'Standard Pressure' load. If so, it is a 'brisk' std load. I would have to be very angry, desperate, frightened, or all of the above, to drop the hammer on this std load from a palm size pistol.

Kinda like Six Flags, it might be a thing enjoyed only once.

salty

If you enjoyed reading about "OK. So I carry a Bond derringer. Let's talk .45 Colt SD loads" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!