[TAKtical]

Which is more reliable? Which is easier to clean? Im not asking for opinions on accuracy or which one I should get because I already have an AR, and I just got a mini. Im just curious as to which one can put more rounds down range without failure and which is easier to clean when it does fail.

[snakeman]

if you have both, shouldn't you be telling us which its which?

[meanmrmustard]

Where's that dead horse? It's in need of beating...

IMO, AR is easier to clean, probably going to be more accurate. If a gas piston rifle is in order, an SKS is a good choice.

If you haven't noticed, I'm not a Mini fan. <...>

The edge, purely based on my experience, the AR is going to serve better, even though it too is a fragile design. They're being built better than ever nowadays, you know as you own one, and its user friendly. Pop a pin, pull your crap out, hit with a chamber brush, rag, lil CLP, call it a day. Hope your Mini serves you well, or rather, as well as the AR. When in doubt, AK or SKS:)

[WoofersInc]

I have found that the Mini-14 can be more picky with mags. It will run like nobody's buisness with factory mags but aftermarket mags are really hit or miss. The AR's will run well with most quality aftermarket mags and in fact most of the best recommended mags are aftermarket.

[Water-Man]

From a reliability standpoint, my Mini has been every bit as reliable as my AR.
It's a 186 series, not the new model.

[TAKtical]

I have a DDM4, a Mak 90, and an M1A scout squad. I recently got a mini as part of a trade and I have not fired a single round through this rifle yet. Im definitely going to run it to failure so that I can compare for myself but I wanted to know what you guys think. Thanks to those of you who have already replied.

[Kurt_D]

I never really cleaned my Mini. Both are easy to clean though the AR has more small parts.

My ARs have been more reliable; better mag quality, availablity and price are a huge part of that. My Mini never worked with anything but the factory 5 rounder. Second piece of that is the chrome chambers on the ARs, I had several torn cases with the Mini where 1/2 the case remained stuck in the chamber and the next round jammed into it. My ARs never had that issue.

[Swampman]

I've been issued Mini 14s and M4s for work. I never had reliability problems with either one, but I never let them get super dirty or stay dirty very long after extensive firing. The only time I ever had reliability problems with the Mini was when using aftermarket mags, went back to Ruger mags and the reliability problems vanished. The Mini was however, probably the most inaccurate rifle that I've ever shot, truly horrible, an 8 inch group at 100 yards was cause for celebration!
I was very happy when we went to the M4s, I coulda bought my old Mini for $250, I didn't.

[mljdeckard]

I think you would have to run either of them REALLY hard to make them fail. I know a lot of ranchers who keep a mini behind the seat. (But a lot of them are just too stubborn to buy something like an imported SKS.)

[Roadking Rider]

I have one of the new 580 Mini ranch rifles. IMO you'd really have to put alot of ammo down range to get it to the point of being so dirty it wouldn't shoot.
I can't speak for the older mini's but the newer models I like. They may not be tack drivers shooting from a bench rest, but it's plenty real world accurate enough for me.

If you've never shot one of the new models you should give them a try. They might suprise you just how nice they are.
Now,For those ranchers who are to stubborn to try an SKS all I can say is thanks. Those carbines are a beast, and they just flat out work, and the 762x39 ammo is still pretty inexpensive to buy. Both the Mini 14 and the SKS are my SHTF rifles.

[jmr40]

The Mini was designed as an inexpensive gun for farmers and ranchers to keep on a tractor or pickup to be used for the occasional shot at coyotes or fox. It was not designed as a militarry rifle to be shot thousands of times in battlefield conditions.

I believe that if neglected and left dirty the Mini will probably be more reliable whan pulled from behind the seat of a farm truck after setting there for months. Kept resonably clean the AR will probably still be shooting after far more rounds have been down the tube than the Mini

[hentown]

This is soooo obvious! The Minis are sooooo reliable that they're used by most of the militaries in the free world.....not! :cool:

[06]

Use the right tool for the right job. Nothing wrong with either. Have had both-now have an M4 (others stolen). My "truck gun" is an M style SKS. I want something that hits hard and is reliable even when dusty/dirty. The two extra 30 rd mags make it better.

[Walkalong]

Both are extremely reliable. If I had to give and edge here, it would be the Mini 14. You cannot blame crap aftermarket mags on the gun. Buy good mags. I cannot remember mine ever failing.

The AR is going to be more accurate. Yes, with tweaking the Mini can be fairly accurate, but the AR has a huge edge here.

I like both guns. :)

[Art Eatman]

Magazines for the Mini, back in the late 1970s/early 1980s, were quite reliable. For no particular reason I bought a 40-rounder at a gun show. Just for the heck of it I ran a full load through my Mini at a much higher rate of fire than I usually did. Never the first sign of a hiccup.

I mostly used the 10-round factory magazine. That allows carrying at the balance point.

I always figured mine as a reliable truck gun and hunting/plinking rifle. There are other .223 semi-autos just as good for those uses, but I've never seen anything better--and that includes several ARs which have been mostly MOA or better.

[Roadking Rider]

The Ruger factory mags work extremely well. I like the 20 round mags.

[ApacheCoTodd]

I figure for every crummy aftermarket Mini mag out there there are around 1,200 crummy ARs given the fact;

Every single component in an AR has been half-assed by some "manufacturer" at some time.

The number of folk with a little bit of knowledge, less patience and even less willingness to spend for good parts and yet "built" an AR anyhow then foisted it on an unsuspecting market.

The wild variation in alternative build styles often causing componentry to conflict and misapplication of accessories.

I figure, were a fella to grab the next 200 Minis and the next 200 ARs that passed his way - strictly on reliability - the minis would show very well indeed as the mini 14 hasn't had the opportunity to be messed with by so many people as the average AR.

I'm certainly no fan-boy of Ruger in general or Minis in particular but for reliability they do kick butt.

[Art Eatman]

As far as reliability, I figure after playing with four ARs and four Minis, it's a case of six of one, half-dozen of the other.

I've never noticed any difficulty in cleaning any rifle. Some take a little more monkey-motion than others, but so what?

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

I have shot both the AR and the Mini and have put literally tens of thousands of rounds through a Mini-14 I owned in the early-80's.

I NEVER had one misfire of any type and never a problem of any type! When I sold the gun, it shot just as well as when I bought it and it still looked like brand-new!

I do recall stripping the Mini after every shooting session and cleaning the entire gun down to the minutest detail (including the gas nipple and action rod assembly)! Mine was the stainless version, the blued version may vary.

I find that the Mini was a bit easier to clean than the AR. That is just my opinion, it is not cast in stone.

[mberoose]

Going off of my friends' experiences, the Mini-14s have had less malfunctions and are less picky with ammo.

[wow6599]

I like the way the Mini-14 handles better than an AR-15, and I think they would hold up longer without proper cleaning.
But..... I don't like Ruger's use of proprietary mags, lack of parts availability (zero?) and non-chrome lined barrels.

I had one of the NRA (581 series?) Mini-14s, and it was a tack driver. But Ruger wouldn't sell any spare parts, mags were $35-$40 a piece and the barrel wasn't chromed. Sold it and I don't regret it.

[Micro]

Both of my ARs are a bit more accurate than my Mini-14 Tactical. That being said, neither has the charater or fun-to-shoot quality of the Mini. The Mini walks-away in this category.

[johnnydollar]

My mini-14s have been 100% reliable and they are not hard to clean. They run great with Ruger factory mags and they don't get dirty very fast. I can't speak to the AR side of the question as I don't own one.

[X-Rap]

In a one on one comparison using factory mags the reliability answer would probably be close to a draw with an average cross section of guns.
If I were going to pick one or the other accuracy, parts, accessories, cost of quality after market mags, ease of repair and modification, modularity would tilt the scale heavily toward the AR.
I have had both and none of the minis would hold 5 shots in a pie plate at 100 yds off the bench, some of my AR's are sub moa and I can usually run a full mag from any of them into a 4" group or less.
I understand they have made advances towards accuracy recently but I have not heard of Mini's winning any big accuracy matches like AR's have.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

A Mini using FACTORY mags is the more reliable gun---easily. They are also less ammo picky and the new 580+ ones are accurate enough.

When an AR jams, its also MUCH harder to clear than with a Mini.

Now a properly maintained and lubed AR (Colt or better) using brass cased ammo will run like a top too----just needs more user input in the down times than a Mini to keep it that way.

[Welding Rod]

The AR will most likely be more reliable.

I have owned 3 Minis, and well over a dozen ARs. I have only used factory Ruger magazines.

In my experience it won't even be close. My ARs have been vastly more reliable. The problem with the Minis is the same as with any Ruger firearm - the design is sound but the execution is where the problems come in due to sloppy work in the machining operations and poor to no (it seems) QC procedures to catch the mistakes before the gun is boxed and shipped.

The Mini is a solid gun when the parts were made correctly, but that may or may not be the case on any sample.

[mastiffhound]

The Mini-14 is like an American version of the AK-47. Reliable with Ruger mags only though. Both are accurate to minute of man, at least the new 580 series. Mine will shoot 1.5 moa, once maybe twice I've got a 1 moa group with 5 shots. My stainless Mini-14 will clean up faster than my AR's, no question. It breaks down as quick too. Just rack the charging handle and pull back and down on the trigger guard. I have actually had trouble pushing the pin out when new on my AR's, they were very tight.

As far as reliability, I have only had problems with non-Ruger mags. AR's are just as bad, don't be fooled. I've had brand new AR mags have problems, namely a couple $24.99 CAA Countdown mags that won't hold the bolt open on last round and they were ill-fitting in the mag well. One was too loose and the other was too large? I've had cheap Colt brand mags that I bought for $12 work great though? Tapco mags seem to work well for both the AR and Mini, they are fairly cheap too. Tapco is the best aftermarket mag for the Mini, the 2nd gen mags though. You will still have problems though, Tapco Mini mags seem to not function well with steel cased ammo.

Best bet is try your Mini out. The new Mini's (580 series and newer) will surprise you, really. My friend hated them until he shot mine. He went out and got the exact same model I have. My niece likes my Mini more than my AR's. A more traditional rifle design seems to work for some people more than others. Just have fun and congratulations on the new addition!

[FuzzyBunny]

I have an older Mini and at 50 yards it shoots patterns and not groups. I have hated to trade or sell it off without telling folks how bad it is. Ammo of every kind performs the same way. First shot is ok but after that thin barrel heats up it is anyones guess where the round will go. This is with all weights and makers of ammo.

I have decided to keep it as a home invasion rifle with ruger mags because it never fails to fire. I figure at 20 feet I can be accurate enough to get the job done.

I would like a new Mini with a heavy barrel that shot 2MOA but for that price of the work and parts I can get an AR!

If I had to choose today for an AR or a Mini then I would go for the AR even if both shot 1 MOA. Big reason is Ruger does not sell to the public some of the parts that make the Ruger run.

Another thing that is a plus for the AR is parts are everywhere! Last month I even saw an AR upper at a garage sale. Yes we buy and sell firearms at garage/yard sales here in Texas.

One last thought and it is off topic but here goes. In a home shooting of a bad guy/guys. I would much rather have the jury look at the wood stocked mini over an evil black rifle. It may sound stupid as a good shoot is a good shoot but there is no telling what a jury may do.

[mberoose]

Guess it's just me that's had good luck with aftermarket mags for the Mini.

[Walkalong]

I have several aftermarket mags (20's, 30's, & 40's) that run 100%. Some are USA, and some, IIRC, are Precision mags. I have no clue if today's aftermarket Mini 14 mags are any good.

[TAKtical]

How do you tell if a mini is the newer more accurate version, or the old one? Mine is the tactical model with flash hider if it makes a difference.

[GLOOB]

I had several torn cases with the Mini where 1/2 the case remained stuck in the chamber and the next round jammed into it. My ARs never had that issue.
This sounds like excessive headspace. Nothing to do with the chamber finish. If the headspace is correct, the rim will tear off before a case breaks in half.

[ugaarguy]

Tak, just look at the serial number. It'll be in xxx-xxxxx format. 180 prefix are the earliest, and parts aren't available because they're the only ones made like that. 181 through 19x prefix are the older models but parts are still available. 58x prefix and later are the newer enhanced Minis. According to a quick a search of the Ruger forum right around 580-50000 is supposedly when Ruger switch to the heavier contour bbl aft of the gas block. Hope that helps.

[TAKtical]

Yes that was very helpful. I have the new version.

[Ash]

I have an old, pencil-thin Mini GB and it is more accurate than my SKS, less accurate than my Garand. The AR will be more accurate to be sure, but I haven't had any reliability issues with the GB - I had none with my AR's either, though.

[WardenWolf]

If I had to choose today for an AR or a Mini then I would go for the AR even if both shot 1 MOA. Big reason is Ruger does not sell to the public some of the parts that make the Ruger run.

If you call their parts department, they'll sell you anything, even when it's not listed on their website or available through resellers.

One thing to factor in for long-term reliability is the availability of magazines. AR magazines are practically a dime a dozen and almost all will interchange flawlessly. Mini-14 magazines, on the other hand, aren't nearly as common, and the Ruger ones are the only ones you can trust.

Honestly, I'd take an unconverted Saiga rifle over a Mini-14. It's more reliable, cheaper, and just as accurate, if not more so. And it's easily adapted to take standard AK mags. You wind up with a better solution that doesn't break the bank.

[RatDrall]

I've owned old and new Mini-14s. The old version malfunctioned constntly, but I was using cheap crappy magazines because during the assault weapon ban factory mags were hard to come by. The new model was 100% reliable with factory 20 rounders, I never had a malfunction in the few hundred rounds I put through it.

Quality AR15s, now, are as close to 100% reliable as you can get. Google "Filthy 14" and read about a BCM rifle that went 43k rounds with only one cleaning.

The Mini-14 is simpler, and at $700 is more reliable than any AR15 in the price range. Face it, to get an AR for that price, corners are being cut somewhere.

[niteowl]

I have two Mini's. A blued 580 series with the thicker barrel, and a stainless 196 series GB with the factory bayonet lug and flash hider. I also have a Colt 6520, which has the 16" pencil barrel. I'm an average marksman, and have shot all three rifles in snow, rain and shine and in temperatures between -30 to 110F. All three rifles have been extremely reliable, and all three shoot the same groups with bulk off the shelf ammo. The Colt will handle the heavier stuff better with the 1/7 barrel, but other than that, the same. I also use 5, 20 and 30 round factory Ruger magazines, so I can't comment on aftermarket magazines. I use Colt/Okay/NHMTG, and Lancer L5 magazines in the Colt.

Out of all 3 rifles, the Colt is the handiest and the lightest when loaded with a 20 round magazine, although I still love all three.

[niteowl]

double post.

[Neo-Luddite]

Mini w factory mag is a good bet for reliability. The mini is good at what it does IF you don't ask it to perform as an AR would in terms of accuracy. Keep the gas assembly free of carbon and bolt lightly lubed.

[Swampman]

I have an older Mini and at 50 yards it shoots patterns and not groups. I have hated to trade or sell it off without telling folks how bad it is. Ammo of every kind performs the same way. First shot is ok but after that thin barrel heats up it is anyones guess where the round will go. This is with all weights and makers of ammo.

I have decided to keep it as a home invasion rifle with ruger mags because it never fails to fire. I figure at 20 feet I can be accurate enough to get the job done.

I would like a new Mini with a heavy barrel that shot 2MOA but for that price of the work and parts I can get an AR!

If I had to choose today for an AR or a Mini then I would go for the AR even if both shot 1 MOA. Big reason is Ruger does not sell to the public some of the parts that make the Ruger run.

Another thing that is a plus for the AR is parts are everywhere! Last month I even saw an AR upper at a garage sale. Yes we buy and sell firearms at garage/yard sales here in Texas.

One last thought and it is off topic but here goes. In a home shooting of a bad guy/guys. I would much rather have the jury look at the wood stocked mini over an evil black rifle. It may sound stupid as a good shoot is a good shoot but there is no telling what a jury may do.

I sincerely hope you meant ANTI home invasion rifle. :)

Things could get messy in a hurry if too many 'bangers carrying Mini's started kicking in doors!

[EMS_92]

I have no experiance with the mini-14, but I can say I have only hd one AR jam on me , and that was an M4 with the M16 blank adaptor, firing blanks (Duhh). Other than that every other AR I used had no malfunctions. Also, when an AR does jam, 75% of the time a simple pull of the charging handle is all that is needed to get it going again (In my experience). My 2 cents.

[aka108]

I had a Mini 30. Never jambed but was about as inaccurate as you could get. Sold it. No experience with AR's but have seen many at the range being cleared of some mal function by their owners.

[Jeff White]

They aren't built to stand up to hard use. I have yet to see one make it through the hard shooting of a good carbine class.

I would have to say it depends on your intended use. If you are going to use it for it's intended purpose, plinking, varmint shooting, then it should be fine.

If you are going to train hard with it, a couple thousand rounds over a weekend then it might not be the right weapon for you.

[benEzra]

If you call their parts department, they'll sell you anything, even when it's not listed on their website or available through resellers.
This is a change then, because when I had my mini, I recall that Ruger would not sell you a spare bolt unless you shipped the rifle to them.

As to reliability, it's a wash; I have owned both. The AR has never failed on a steady diet of Wolf and Tula steel-case and occasional cleaning. The mini never failed using good ammo and magazines, but I had an overpressure reload a friend gave me lock up the bolt once, the bolt carrier froze in the forward position once after a couple days in my car trunk in Florida humidity and it took a good whack on the charging handle to open it (my stainless gun rusted, go figure), and I had a couple of aftermarket-magazine failures. But I'd trust either. John Farnam has said that the mini doesn't tolerate extended heat buildup from long shooting strings as well as the AR does, but I have no direct experience with that. I did get some long-term galling on the bolt lugs of my mini though...apparently they like to be greased and don't like to be run dry *at all*, though the rifle still runs OK.

[MachIVshooter]

A good AR is superior to the mini in every way.

I bought my stainless/synthetic model for $475 brand new at a time when AR's were $1,000+ and neutered. Today, you can buy a good AR for less than a mini. It's a no brainer.

Don't get me wrong, I like my mini. But I wouldn't have to think for even a microsecond if I had to choose between it and my Armalite M15A2C.

If you call their parts department, they'll sell you anything, even when it's not listed on their website or available through resellers

No, they won't. Ruger lost my business forever because they flat-out refused to sell me a cylinder for my SP-101 (and were quite rude about it).

[ApacheCoTodd]

They aren't built to stand up to hard use. I have yet to see one make it through the hard shooting of a good carbine class.

That's an interesting observation. What generally tends to "go south" on them in the carbine class environment?

[Kyle M.]

A good AR is superior to the mini in every way.
I bought my stainless/synthetic model for $475 brand new at a time when AR's were $1,000+ and neutered. Today, you can buy a good AR for less than a mini. It's a no brainer.

I have to disagree I can buy a brand new mini for $550 from my lgs, a good ar starts at $800. My dad bought his mini 14 target new for $750 and it will outshoot an armalite national match that costs $1700. Granted I've always heard the basic ranch rifle that costs $550 isn't that accurate, but for those of us who plink at all of 50 yards not too many things are inaccurate.

[Fishbed77]

I have to disagree I can buy a brand new mini for $550 from my lgs

Please show me a local gun store that still sells Minis for $550 new.

The cheapest price I see anywhere these days is $667 at Wallyworld.

[ugaarguy]

I can buy a brand new mini for $550 from my lgs, a good ar starts at $800.
On the Mini that's $85 less than the lowest price I can find online. If your LGS is that good on Mini-14 prices then perhaps they can still get you to $600 on the excellent S&W M&P15 Sport, like they were last year, rather than the $650+ current going rate. The lower cost of a few spare mags for the AR vs. the Mini will make up the price difference either way.
My dad bought his mini 14 target new for $750 and it will outshoot an armalite national match that costs $1700.
First, $1700 is $322 over MSRP on the Armalite M15A2 National Match. Second, those rifles have 2.5lb two stage match triggers, screw in aperture match sights, and free floated triple lapped barrels. The dampener on the Mini 14 Target is there to counter the barrel vibrations imparted by the reciprocating mass of the op rod. If it can overcome the lack of free floated bbl, the stock trigger, and the stock sights that's a miracle. I'm extremely skeptical.

[Roadking Rider]

Last year (2011) I bought my new 580 wooden Mini 14 Ranch rifle for $549+tax out the door at Classic Pistol in Bucks Co. Pa. I believe you can pick them up at Tanners GS also in Bucks Co. Pa for abought the same price.
172862

[Jeff White]

ApacheCoTodd asked;

That's an interesting observation. What generally tends to "go south" on them in the carbine class environment?

Failure to extract mostly. I don't think they respond well to getting really hot from extended strings of rapid fire.

I had a mini years ago. I really enjoyed plinking with it and I regret selling it, but I wouldn't want to use it really hard. Mine was a 181 series I bought new. Even then the accuracy really dropped off as the barrel heated up.

[Kyle M.]

Please show me a local gun store that still sells Minis for $550 new.

The cheapest price I see anywhere these days is $667 at Wallyworld.
My bad $573.00 my lgs sells rugers at 25-35% off depending on what there paying. The owner gets between 35-45% through his distributor, so if he gets 45% off msrp he sells at 35% off if he gets 35% off he sells at 25% off.

[Skyshot]

I like them both, I give the accuracy edge to the AR but the new 581's are pressing on the AR's heels. Both my AR and Mini will go 1.5 MOA if I do my part. I don't have any reliability issues with either. I don't shoot Steel bulk stuff and I'm sure that helps. Ruger factory mags are the way to go for the mini. As far as cleaning goes, it is what it is. You break-em down and clean, no big deal they just come apart differnt. My wife and kids and grandkids prefer to shoot the mini though, hands down.

[ApacheCoTodd]

ApacheCoTodd asked;



Failure to extract mostly. I don't think they respond well to getting really hot from extended strings of rapid fire.

I had a mini years ago. I really enjoyed plinking with it and I regret selling it, but I wouldn't want to use it really hard. Mine was a 181 series I bought new. Even then the accuracy really dropped off as the barrel heated up.
I wonder if some chamber treatment might not resolve that?

Seems like most every gunshow I went to in the 90s would have a couple-three fellas looking for bolts from either breaking an ear off or wanting a spare for fear of breaking an ear off. Was that mythology or a valid concern that's since been addressed?

[RatDrall]

I don't think they respond well to getting really hot from extended strings of rapid fire.


I put 400 rounds through a (newer) mini-14 in a long afternoon shooting session. It did not malfunction once.

[Jeff White]

I put 400 rounds through a (newer) mini-14 in a long afternoon shooting session. It did not malfunction once.

Were you shooting drills like "rolling thinder" that would heat things up quickly?

[MachIVshooter]

First, $1700 is $322 over MSRP on the Armalite M15A2 National Match. Second, those rifles have 2.5lb two stage match triggers, screw in aperture match sights, and free floated triple lapped barrels. The dampener on the Mini 14 Target is there to counter the barrel vibrations imparted by the reciprocating mass of the op rod. If it can overcome the lack of free floated bbl, the stock trigger, and the stock sights that's a miracle. I'm extremely skeptical.

Big +1

Methinks he was spouting stuff from posterior orifice.

[Art Eatman]

Looks like this horse is sinking fast.

From experience with several ARs and several Minis, and from reading about them at TFL and THR for fourteen years, I can't see a nickel's worth of difference between them for reliability--stipulating decent magazines.