[wow6599]

Just got to thinking about why there aren't many AR-10s chambered in .243? Seems like it would be a very versatile combo. Is it because if folks go with an AR-10, they lean towards .308?

It seems it can do, albeit a little heavier, the same thing a 5.56/.223 can do, only better - especially on 4 legged critters. I think I want one.....

Thoughts?

[pikid89]

maybe b/c the .243 is a little overbore, and would wear out a DI system or the barrel a little too fast to be marketable as anything other than a hunting rifle, like the Remington R-25

[skywalkrNCSU]

Probably because .243 is not the choice for the military and there is not enough of a demand for an AR in that form. Is there anything the .243 can do that the .308 can't?

[mberoose]

Wouldn't that be a bit superfluous with 6.8 being out there?

I mean, I know .243 probably has it over 6.8 for long range, but then why not just go .308.

[wow6599]

Is there anything the .243 can do that the .308 can't?

Yeah, send a 55 gr - 65 gr bullet close to 4,000 fps.

[skywalkrNCSU]

Yeah, send a 55 gr - 65 gr bullet close to 4,000 fps.

But what about in practical terms? Is it more accurate at a certain range? better for hunting? I am not asking in a sarcastic way, genuine question.

[savanahsdad]

check out the line up Olmpic Arms has, 22-250 , 223WSSM, 243WSSM, 25WSSM, 30.OSSM, , I was thinking of getting an AR10 in 243win but I found the down side to the AR10 is you have less upers to pick from , and there heavy, and pricie $$$ with the Olympic AR15's you can slap any mil spec uper on them and shoot anything from a 22lr to a 30cal, I went with the K8mag target in 25WSSM , not to big for coyote's and not to small for deer oh and it is a blast to shoot !!!!:cool:

[wow6599]

But what about in practical terms? Is it more accurate at a certain range? better for hunting?

I would have to say it would be much better at hunting. IIRC, the .243 cartridge goes up to 115 gr.

Also, I would think it would be a flatter shooting round and much more devastating on tissue than the .223.

From Wiki -
55 gr .223 = 3240 fps & 1282 ft/lbs
55 gr .243 = 4058 fps & 2012 ft/lbs

Or go heavy .243 - 115 gr, 2900 fps & 2148ft/lbs

http://www.shopcorbon.com/Performance-Match/243-Win-115gr-Performance-Match-DTAC/PM243115-20/700/Product

[savanahsdad]

But what about in practical terms? Is it more accurate at a certain range? better for hunting? I am not asking in a sarcastic way, genuine question.
some will say 243 is on the light side for deer hunting , others will show you there scrap book full of dead deer they got with there 243 , I have hunting with both over the years and never felt under gunned, I'd bet the 308 -vs- 243 in the AR 10 would come down to price , lots of 308 in bulk

[OilyPablo]

I think this further shows the strengths of the 6.8SPC. The 7.62x51 is an awesome round, but the AR-10 is larger and heavier, the ammo is more weight per shot to lug around and has more recoil. To lug the same rifle around to shoot .243, while a great ballistic round, doesn't give the modern soldier much advantage over the .308, and frankly some disadvantage at close quarters. The 6.8 certainly doesn't have any ballistic advantage but works in the AR-15/M16 and kicks butt on the .223/5.56 for "normal" range work.

[Redlg155]

It would ptobably be more popular if it was on a standard AR platform. The. 308 platform jumps the price up. In adition, .308 surplus was very affordable in the past, not so much today. I miss the $35 battlepacks.

[jim243]

But what about in practical terms? Is it more accurate at a certain range? better for hunting? I am not asking in a sarcastic way, genuine question.

Yes it is, but not pratical for a AR. First, it requires a A-10 frame to house the case and bullet. An AR-15 magazine well is not large enough.

243's can be loaded with 40 grain to 107 grain bullets. With a 40 grain bullet you can get 4,000 fps out of the round and has a tendency to burn out the barrel (accuracy) with very few rounds (600-750). So shooting a 243 in a rapid fire semi-auto is not good for the health of a rifle. At least with a bolt action rifle you can take your time and keep the barrel a bit cooler (longer life for the barrel).

With the advent of the 6.5 and 6.8 rounds that WILL fit into the AR-15 frame, why would you want to go 243 with it's additionl cost and expense?

While I will sing the praise for the 243 all day long, not until barrels are made of titaniaum to take the heat, will it be a pratical AR round. (not going to happen any time soon).

Jim

[NOLAEMT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

Here is a video of a young lady and an exceptional marksman taking an elk at 688 yards with a .243 win.

If she can take an elk at long range with a 243 I think whitetail deer should be no problem.

[NWcityguy2]

Because realistically AR10s are luxury items, there is no surplus .243 ammo and if someones .243 AR only feeds FMJ ammo they will probably have to become a reloader. Simply put there is almost no market for a complete .243 AR-10. Barrels are available though.

Also just to be tongue in cheek for a moment, when you look at what almost all AR owners do with their "modern sporting rifles" the .223/5.56 is a great fit. It offers complete side to side penetration of a paper target with cardboard backing at almost any distance, as close as at the muzzle all the way out to 100 yards. It will do a number on a can of soda too. You could add at least 3-4 pounds worth of high quality accessories to an AR15 for the price it would take to upgrade to a .243 AR10.

[Robert101]

Nope, I'm not feeling it. I'll stay with my lr308. The 308 is a Better balance cartridge and has good ballistics as well.

[kingcheese]

Probably because of every company Jain a different magazine(or so I've been told) will a 308 magazine even allow for the 243 to stack up right?, ammo cost? Tuning a gas system for the round? Its a lot of money for a company to develope a new caliber upper for such a fairly complex system, especially when there are already cheaper guns that can handle the cartridge well

[BigN]

I prefer to see a 243 in a beautiful, classy, bolt action rifle. Let's leave the military crap for slinging lead downrange. 308 & 223 are throwaways, the 243 is not...

[helotaxi]

Probably because of every company Jain a different magazine(or so I've been told) will a 308 magazine even allow for the 243 to stack up right?, ammo cost? Tuning a gas system for the round? Its a lot of money for a company to develope a new caliber upper for such a fairly complex system, especially when there are already cheaper guns that can handle the cartridge well
You realize that the .243 is nothing more than the .308 necked down to 6mm, right? Mags are exactly the same.

As far as figuring out gasing, it's something that is figured out once and done. The only variable is the diameter of the gas port in the barrel. It has already been figured out, in fact, as DPMS has been selling their AR10 variant in .243 for years.

I'm a huge fan of the .243 cartridge because of its versatility and a big fan of the AR, but I have no desire for an AR in .243 because it doesn't fit a niche of the .243 cartridge. The .243 is a shooters cartridge. If you plan to hunt with it, you need to be able to shoot well because shot placement is vital. That being the case, a quick follow up shot isn't going to be required. For varmint shooting, the .243 is similarly 1-2 shot rifle for those long shots where a .223 can't buck the wind. Also, the .243 is a lot more sensitive to barrel length than the .308 so the shorter barrels typically seen on the AR10 won't do the .243 any justice. You could easily get a .243 to work in the AR10 but you would end up with either a heavy rifle that handicaps the cartridge or an awkward rifle that's pointless as an AR...and then there's the barrel life to consider.

[stubbicatt]

That would be swell for someone who likes the impersonal AR type rifle, the feel of plastic against his cheek, and the unnecessarily heavy bolt group reciprocating back and forth. I think DPMS offers one.

The single 243 semi auto I saw and admire even to this day was a M1A shot at a highpower match hereabouts back in the late 90s. Dude could shoot too. I think he hailed from Wyoming. ;)

[taliv]

fwiw, most of the sniper/practical/field precision rifle matches are won with a 243 or wildcat that strongly resembles it, like the 6.5 Creedmoor necked down to 6 CM or what i shoot, the 6 Super Long Range, which starts with 243win brass with shoulder bumped to 30* and a longer neck with a grain less water capacity.

many people shoot these with 115g bullets at 3100 fps or so, or the hot new 105 berger hybrids over 3200 fps. the result is well under 7 mils to 1k. i.e. extremely flat shooting, and very low recoil compared to 6.5/260 and 7 and 308 cartridges all based on the same 308win case.

generally, the problem with running 243win in an AR is seating the bullets to magazine length is a long way from where you want them (the neck is too short and the cartridge too long). cartridges like 6.5grendel, 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5x47 lapua (and all their necked down to 6mm counterparts) were designed mostly to be able to seat the long pointy high BC bullets near the lands and still fit them in the magazine.

the GAP10 in 6mm cartridges is selling like hotcakes. very popular in matches right now.

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I personally think the .243 would be the perfect round in a battle rifle. The .308 hits a little harder, but is a little overrated in my opinion, and loses energy faster than the .243 at mid-long ranges. The .243 is superior to the .223 in every single way, and is much better than the .308 in trajectory. It does at 600y what the .223 does at 300y, and has such a flatter trajectory than the .308 at 600y that I'd be willing to sacrifice some energy at that point.

But, it's all a little moot, as the .223 and the .308 are the "big boys" in the battle rifle department. With those two, there probably isn't a big need for an intermediary. Even then, some of those unique AR cartridges come close to filling the middle between the .223 and the .308. I prefer battle rifles in .308, but if they were readily available in non-AR options, I'd probably go that route. But this is all just me. ;)

[Arkansas Paul]

I would have to say it would be much better at hunting.


That would totally depend on what it is you're hunting.

Coyotes and woodchucks, yep the .243 is better.

Whitetail and similar sized game, I would say it's a toss up.

Elk sized game, no competition. The ability for the .308 to shoot the larger bullets gives it a distinct advantage, much the same way the lighter bullets give the .243 the advantage on small stuff.

You can't just use the term "hunting" as a blanket term and say one is better than the other. They each have a niche and they are both very good in their perspective niche. Sure there's a middle ground where they're both great, but they go in opposite directions from there.

Just my 0.02

[wow6599]

I would have to say it would be much better at hunting.

Arkansas Paul, I should have clarified what I meant. I was thinking about the advantages of the .243 over the .223 when I posted the above statement. If I'm going to take a long range shot, at game larger than a whitetail deer, I'd pick a .338 Win Mag.

[Arkansas Paul]

I gotcha.
I do share your affinity for the .243 and I do agree that one on an AR platform would be very cool. I know Remington makes one, but don't know of any others that do.

[helotaxi]

I know Remington makes one, but don't know of any others that do.Actually DPMS makes that one and paints it green for Rem. to put their name on. Armalite also makes one. If you have an AR10 it's just a barrel away.

As much as I like both the .243 and the AR type rifles, the two together aren't my cup of coffee. If I wanted an AR10 for hunting, it would probably be a .338 Fed. Signifcantly more powerful than the AR15 offerings, more powerful than the .308 and also less sensitive to barrel length. Leaves you with a cartridge well suited to a handy semi-auto rifle, unlike the .243.

An option that is rarely discussed is the .243WSSM. Better velocity than the .243 Win in a package that fits the AR15, albeit a very much custom version. D-Tech and Olympic are the sources.

[mljdeckard]

I think that the AR-10 platform will be available in .243 a lot longer than the WSSM/SAUM/OSSM uppers will be available for the AR-15. Those are pretty much alive right now just because of AR-15 uppers. The .243 will be around regardless of what happens to them.

I have long-term plans to build uppers in .308, .260, .243, and 7mm08, all from the same magazine, bolt face, and lower.

[W.E.G.]

Its because by the time most buyers of guns with a military "look," are dropping over a grand on a rifle, the .308 version is way more attractive, and way more available.

If you want an AR in .243 Winchester, you're going to have to beat the bushes.

[JShirley]

The people who are buying the larger-bore ARs are generally the ones who want a heavy bullet. They are the opposite of the super-light fast crowd...who already have the .223.

[Double Naught Spy]

It seems it can do, albeit a little heavier, the same thing a 5.56/.223 can do, only better - especially on 4 legged critters. I think I want one.....

Thoughts?

Well, until folks like you think that they need them and actually purchase a half dozen or so each, then the .243 will remain a novelty AR15 chambering.

Funny how so many people thing the AR15 should be chambered in their pet caliber and then don't understand why it isn't at the forefront of offerings with a vast selection.

[wow6599]

Well, until folks like you think that they need them

What kind of "folk" am I?

and actually purchase a half dozen or so each

So, I have to buy 6 or more for this to take off (even though they are already available)

Funny how so many people thing the AR15 should be chambered in their pet caliber

I don't have a pet caliber.

I'm not sure if you're just having a bad day with the wife (or husband), or mad at the .243 in general, but there isn't really a need to attack my little thread here. Just making small talk about the AR-10 platform (not AR-15, FWI) and a neat cartridge.

Chris

[mshootnit]

while there are not very many the armalite option is a very nice one.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=309355696

[kingcheese]

Yes i know that a 243 is a necked down 308, but if your shooting lighter bullets, the length might cause feeding issues

[Double Naught Spy]

wow, you asked "Why so little .243 ARs out there?" Simply put, not enough folks like you need or want them and the few that do don't buy enough to drive up demand to increase production.

[sansone]

for the OP:
I've been shooting and reloading for my Armalite AR10 chambered in .243win for over a year now.
Did not expect the same great rewards as from my boltie, but wanted an AR10 for a few years.
The entire shooting and reloading experience with the rifle has been a total joy.

You can not compare the .243 to a .223 they are worlds apart.
If you want to have a more practical AR10 the .308 would be a better choice.
The flat trajectory and velocity of the .243 suit me very well and recoil recovery between shots is real fast, couldn't be happier ;)

[forindooruseonly]

The single 243 semi auto I saw and admire even to this day was a M1A shot at a highpower match hereabouts back in the late 90s. Dude could shoot too. I think he hailed from Wyoming.

I could get excited about that rifle - that's something I'm going to look into.

[Robert101]

Darn, I guess I do have a pet caliber the 308.... Parent case to the 243. I think they got it right the first time.

[helotaxi]

Yes i know that a 243 is a necked down 308, but if your shooting lighter bullets, the length might cause feeding issues
Nope. Not even a little bit. You can also load most the medium and heavy weight bullets to "full" .308 length if the barrel chamber will allow it.

[armarsh]

My biggest regret in the rifle category is passing up a great deal on a 243 R-25. I could of had a display-model for $900 and was too dumb to say yes.