[Rustle in the bushes]

Anyone tried this? Seems a bit crazy, but I gotta say I'm intrigued- especially upon reading that some wackos even use it for elk hunting! Id be very interested to hear anyones tips on loads/bullets that would do the trick safely as well as ways to knock a few OZ off the rifle. Im looking at picking up an 18.5" bbl model currently.


Please no "7mm rem mag is the minimum elk cartridge chatter". As far as m1a and elk there are definitely shot placement/range issues that I agree with- within 200 ish yards, quality bullet, and being capable of saying no to an unethical shot.

[NOLAEMT]

Why not? they have a reputation for accuracy, and the 308 round it MORE than enough for elk, especially inside of 200 yards, and probably much further, provided the shooter is capable.

I know they are not easy to scope, but if you have a reliable scope set up, or are confident with iron sights, I can think of no reason you couldn't use one for elk. Are there rifles that might be better suited? of course, but that is not to say that you couldn't use an M1a for elk or anything else in the lower 48 states if so inclined.

[Redlg155]

I hunt deer with a 18" scout. 150-168 grain bullets should have work just fine. A. I would definitely invest in a rangefinder and know your trajectory.

I would also invest in a good treadmill, protien powder and a possible gym membership if you want to tote the beast!

[gearchecker]

The M1A would be an excellent Elk rifle, even way out here in Northern Idaho.
I've strongly considered using mine for hunting this season, but I got another powerhouse to use instead.
Get in enough practice so you know your up to holding your accuracy into a clean kill. The .308's been used for elk hunting for many, many years, so why not an M1A. If you break hunting down to the basics, it's just another wood stocked rifle in a known hunting caliber, albeit heavier than most others out there. If it's the only rifle you have in this caliber, it's just one more reason to get to shoot it.
Go for it.

Gearchecker

[Jeff F]

Why not, I use a No 4 Enfield hunting deer and elk.

[SlamFire1]

Why not?

You can easily scope an M1a and find five round magazines.

Using an M1a for hunting is no crazier than using a Rem M7400 or a BAR. Why not?

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I think the "what's appropriate for X animal..." discussion is framed around playing it on the safe side. There's nothing wrong this this at all. However, there is absolutely no reason .308 would be much inferior to what's typically used for elk. Personally, the .308 is probably good enough for anything we'll find on this continent... Perhaps even something smaller would also suffice. That doesn't negate larger calibers, it's just, in my opinion, a realistic observation.

[TexasPatriot.308]

I have lots of nice rifles, but now and then I take my SA M1A standard loaded to the stand, loaded with 180 grain CoreLokts and deal many a hog misery up to and over 300 yards, I love irons on my M1As, wouldnt think of scoping them.

[gfanikf]

If I didn't live in PA I'd use my Ruger 10/22 and M1 Garand. If you can use semi auto...go for it!

[Swampman]

I've hunted deer and hogs with the same old M1a Standard model since 1980. My personal best is nine hogs out of one sounder in about 12 seconds (guesstimate, it wasn't actually timed). On another occasion, I took a wounded doe at 427 paced yards. A friend used that rifle to take the largest wild hog that I've ever seen, we couldn't get it to a scale, but it would have been well over 600 pounds and had a five inch tusk on one side and a four and a quarter incher on the other. He shot that hog at about 15 yards with a Speer 165 grain boattail, and the hog never took another step.

I said all of that to show that I love the M1a and think its a great hunting rifle, BUT, don't elk tend to live where there's a lot of up and down? M1as are pretty substantial in weight. Elk, unlike hogs, have fairly restrictive bag limits, fast follow up shots aren't likely to be needed or useful.
I have no doubt that an M1a shooting a properly placed 165 grain Nosler Partition would kill a elk as dead as last weeks fish.
The problem would be that carrying that sucker very far would be likely to kill YOU as well!
Think about it, the disadvantages of the rifle are weight and possibly reduced range.
The main advantage is quick, accurate follow up shots.
The weight disadvantage is a fairly big deal, reduced range, not so much.
The fast follow up shots are generally going to be useless, you're gonna be hunting a single animal and if you don't hit it properly the first time, blasting four (or even 19) more shots at a now scared and running animal isn't likely to improve the situation.
With all that said, I think the M1a would make a serviceable tool for elk hunting, but probably not the best tool that you could carry.

[nathan]

I would go for my Garand, same peep sight and in .3006 caliber.

[Rustle in the bushes]

the dream might be dying....Im a lefty and Im not sure how I feel about shooting with that OP rod right in my face. Im a careful reloader but still just in case of some kind of crazy failure Id probably be chewing on that thing.

So....conflicted....

[HorseSoldier]

At the end of the day it's a .308 and suitable for anything you can reliably take with 308.

[Swampman]

nathan,
I think this is one case where the 30-06 isn't going to have any real advantage over the .308.
Due to the gas system and weak op rod on the Garand, you're not going to be able to use the heavy bullets and slow powders which are what allow the '06 to outperform the .308.

[gfanikf]

the dream might be dying....Im a lefty and Im not sure how I feel about shooting with that OP rod right in my face. Im a careful reloader but still just in case of some kind of crazy failure Id probably be chewing on that thing.

So....conflicted....
If its anything like a mini 14....don't worry. Just get used to the wonderful gas ejection smell, but that is about it.

[DesertFox]

There's a whitetail mount on the wall behind me that was taken with - you guessed it - an M-14. The recovered Nosler Ballistic Tip slug is there too.

The M1A isn't exactly light, especially wearing glass. But it does a fine job on deer or elk.

[Reloadron]

While I have never taken deer sized game with an M1A or for that matter a M1 Garand it was only because I had plenty of rifles in the .308 and 30-06 chamberings more suited for hunting. I know plenty of people who have used both the M1 Garand and M1A for deer hunting as well as all deer sized game. If I did not have rifles in .308 and 30-06 more suited for hunting I would not hesitate to drag a M1 Garand or M1A into the woods.

Ron

[Vern Humphrey]

If you like it, use it.

That said, consider that elk are usually killed at altitudes of around 11,000 feet in steep, rugged mountains. An M1A is a heavy rifle to lug around in those conditions.

[mljdeckard]

I tried it. What I found was, it becomes a project pretty quick. If you scope it, you need at least a cheek piece, and a new stock with a raised comb would be better. I learned that at the range after leaning into it so far I got a cut in my eyebrow. (Yes, it drew snickers.) The same mount sat so low, I couldn't adjust the iron sights to work as a backup either. I thought to myself; "Now why was it again I decided a conventional bolt rifle in .308 wasn't enough?" I sold it for what I paid for it at a gun show to...a nice young man who wanted to hunt with it.

[Kingcreek]

I've hunted with my M1a bush rifle and it worked great but was heavy. I hunted northern Minnesota woods and used the iron sights. Killed a big whitetail buck at 80 yards using 165 Sierra game kings over 4895 powder.

[jmr40]

Nothing wrong with the 308 and elk. With proper loads in an accurate bolt rifle it is good for closer to 400 yards than the above suggested 200, but a limit of 200 yards may be reasonably with this rifle.

Compared to a more traditional bolt gun you'll have a lot heavier rifle to lug around. The semi-auto action will not allow you to use many factory or handloads that would increase perfomance and a shorter 18" barrel further limits velocity. Your range may also be limited by the type of accuracy you get with the rifle. You'd just have to do some range work and see how far you can shoot and till get groups in an elk size kill zone.

It wouldn't be something I'd want to use, but if you enjoy hunting with it, and accept the limiations then go hunting and have a great time.

[desidog]

The reality: at the end of the day you'll have a sore shoulder from carrying it around, and a sore spot on your back from the magazine's sharp corners.

I can be done; and it should be done...because you'll really enjoy carrying around a rifle that weighs half the M1A's weight afterwards.

[Kiln]

I'd say it would work just fine. Now if you really want an interesting outing try using it for squirrel or rabbit.

[X-Rap]

I have considered using my M1A for elk hunting but as others have said it has its limitations and is on the heavy side for what you get.
Over a good many seasons I have pared down my cf elk rifles two pretty much 2 choices, both in their element are extremely effective and while one is on the heavy side and not considered a close range gun I have taken game between 50 and 450 yds the other is strictly a 150yd and under but is fairly light and goes to work very fast.
I just don't see the M1a supplanting either. As to the cartridge, I have taken elk with 308 but it is far from my favorite.

[Driftertank]

Sure!

Heck, me and a buddy are currently talking about doing a "boat-anchor" hunt next season if we can get it arranged...him with his M1A, and me with my PTR. Not an elk hunt, but probably mulies, on a high-desert plateau near here where we might find a spot to make shots at longer range. Both our rifles have gotten close to MOA 5-shot groups, and we're still working on our handloads.

The round is capable, the rifle is capable, it a matter of getting it to where the shot can be taken.

[Vern Humphrey]

The round is capable, the rifle is capable, it a matter of getting it to where the shot can be taken.
That sums up the problem very nicely.

[Dr.Rob]

5 shot magazine and a good scope mount I don't see why not.

Back in the dark days pre 94 I considered picking up an M1A as an antelope rifle. Even then prices had soared over $1000, and had NO interest in an AR style rifle.

My thought at the time was.. if they can use these in 1000 yard matches, probably shoots well enough to hunt with. A couple 5 shot mags would make it dandy.

Only the inflated price kept me away.

[MTMilitiaman]

Okay, the why nots. Let's get that out of the way. Assuming that it is legal to use a semi-auto for hunting in your area, we will bypass that argument. Rather, the main reason not to is that they tend to be several pounds heavier than a bolt action rifle in the same cartridge with the same barrel weight and contour. Even without a 20 round magazine inserted (and that's the only type of M1A magazine I acknowledge exists), you're still talking about a 9 or 10 pound rifle, empty, and without optics. You could easily set up an 18 inch barrel bolt action rifle with optics at under 8 pounds.

However, if you don't mind the weight, there is absolutely no reason not to use it hunting. I have used mine and have taken several deer with it. Sorry no elk. I use iron sights and found that in my rifle, Federal's Fusion 150 gr JSP shot safely and reliably, and out to about 300 yards, to the same point of impact as the WWB 147 gr FMJ I use for practice.

You have to be careful with load selection in a gas gun. The pressure at the port is at least as important as the pressure in the chamber with this design. I would avoid High Energy and other suped up loads. And I would stick with loads between 147 and 175 grains.

But keeping this in mind and eating your Wheaties in the morning makes the M1A and excellent companion in the woods.

[Vern Humphrey]

The M1A and the M14 are self-regulating. You will note the FAL and several other designs have adjustable gas systems, while the M14 has none, because it doesn't need one.

The M1A and M14 pistons are hollow, like a water glass with the open end pointing toward the muzzle. The gas port in the barrel aligns with the gas port in the gas cylinder, which aligns with a gas port in the piston. So when the rifle is fired, the gas is vented inside the piston, where it expands, driving the piston backward. As the piston moves back, the gas ports come out of alignment and the gas flow is shut off.

If your gas pressure is a bit low, the ports stay aligned a bit longer and allow more gas to enter the piston. If your gas pressure is high, the piston moves more quickly and shuts off the gas flow earlier.

In addition, of course, the M14/M1A is a short stroke piston design. The piston moves only a short distance and strikes a weight, driving it backward. So it is the momentum of this weight that operates the action, not gas pressure.

[herkyguy]

a few problems:

1: it's heavy...especially with a scope.
2. it's loud (the safety and chambering a round)
3. did i mention it's heavy?

the good:

1: it's accurate.
2: it's reliable.

i set one up to hunt with, but once i compared it to a bolt action, i never brought it along. if you're hunting long range, the noise won't be an issue, but if you're up close and personal with the game, they'll hear you switch the safety off or chambering a round.

[Driftertank]

ETA - in reply to Vern's statement.

All true in theory, but in practice, high pressure loads and/or slower powder curves will beat up your action. The self regulating stacked cups make the M14 action much more tolerant than the old M1 Garand, as far as different load specs, but you're still best off using the bullet weights previously mentioned. And powders of the H/IMR4895/Varget variety, if you handload. Nothing slower than 4064, and not too heavy at that. Your op-rod and receiver will thank you...

[Grunt]

M1A you say??? Hunting you say??? Well, here's my buck taken last fall at 423 meters with my DMR clone usign 168 grain BTHP match ammo:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q236/USMCGruntUSAFCATM/Firearms/misc/11-07-2011buck.jpg

Now some folks will complain that BTHP ammo was designed for punching holes in paper and not deer but really, I've never had a problem with it. The only regulations in ND is no FMJ ammo and no explosive points or some other weird crap like that. So what does a 168 grain BTHP do? Well, here's the same buck with his suit taken off and a pretty good view of the exit wound. BTW, for the record, he took 2 steps before laying down and calling it quits.:evil:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q236/USMCGruntUSAFCATM/Firearms/misc/168grainBTHPmatchexitwound.jpg

[Swampman]

Honestly, its very easy to get around the limitations on powder type and bullet weight with an M1a (other than those imposed by barrel twist rate), all you have to do is turn off the gas system, it takes about two seconds and its designed to be operated using the rim of a 7.62 mm case.

Yes, the weapon is no longer a semi auto, but its still reasonably quick to operate as a straight pull bolt action. Besides, as I said in my first post, semi automatic operation isn't going to be much of an advantage on an elk hunt anyway.

I'm not advocating that anyone do anything unsafe, but look at the size of the locking lugs on an M1a bolt, the limitations of the design are in the gas system, not the mechanical strength of the action itself.

[Rustle in the bushes]

@swampman- super interesting. Im gonna look into that further- I havent heard anything about 180gr being bad for the rifle other than the op rod and gas system.

Seems like that would be a safe option- gonna look into it further and really expands the usability of the platform.

Darn I want an 18", no flash hider scoped m1a even more now. Good thread gentlemen

[Vern Humphrey]

ETA - in reply to Vern's statement.

All true in theory, but in practice, high pressure loads and/or slower powder curves will beat up your action. The self regulating stacked cups make the M14 action much more tolerant than the old M1 Garand, as far as different load specs, but you're still best off using the bullet weights previously mentioned. And powders of the H/IMR4895/Varget variety, if you handload. Nothing slower than 4064, and not too heavy at that. Your op-rod and receiver will thank you...
The M14 doesn't really have an op rod in the same sense as the M1 -- there is no direct connection with the gas system and the bolt system.

And yes, you can beat up any self-loading rifle by firing large quantities of high-pressure ammo with heavy bullets, but the M14 is more damage-resistant than others. I know a Navy gunsmith who used to pull the 150 to 172 grain bullets from match ammo and load a 190 grain bullet over the same powder charge. Now these rifles had to be overhauled every couple of thousand rounds -- but how many hunters fire that much ammo in a life time?

[Swampman]

Vern:
I tend to agree with you. Although I don't do it anymore, in my younger, dumber days, I routinely pushed 150 grain bullets around 3000 fps out of my M1a Standard Model. I was using reputable, printed load data and in those innocent pre internet days, I honestly wasn't aware that that it was a problem with the M1a.

The rifle held together through several hundred, possibly as many as a thousand of those rounds with no apparent ill effects. This was in addition to several thousand rounds of various surplus ammo.

The saddest part is, with the reloads, I was mostly shooting pulled M-61 AP bullets because they were so cheap! When I look at what people pay for them now, it almost makes me want to cry. :(

[Vern Humphrey]

Don't cry for rounds shot -- be thankful for skill gained.

[Driftertank]

So, went shooting yesterday with a BUNCH of handloads to try. Did ladder-loads at .5gr increments, using 155 SMK's, 168 SMK's, and Hornady 165 SST's over IMR4895. Took my PTR, my friend brought his M1A.
I'll cut to the pertinent part. In my hand i'm holding a target with a 5rd group fired from a mostly rack-grade GI-spec 22" M1A that measures 1.740" center to center including one outlier. Throw out the outlier, and the other 4 measure 1.082". Round was a 165 SST over 42.0gr that ran 2650 over the chrono.

In the real world, that's perfectly acceptable performance for deer or elk out to 300yd, IMHO.

Very sorry i can't prove with pics. :(

[Vern Humphrey]

You betcha it is, even for a bolt gun. I'd love to have an M1A that would shoot that well.

[Driftertank]

The same load produced a 1.587" group from my PTR, at just under 2500 fps, while the bump to 42.5gr produced a 1.774" group, but with 4 of the shots strung into a .571" hole.

Sorry, that was gratuitous bragging, but the point is that rough load development produced a round that got both rifles into the 1.5MOA or less range, with a bullet and velocity that should work quite well on most medium-large game.

So, consider me to be actively encouraging the OP's idea. Sorry for the minor threadjack, but i'm stoked with our results, and there's some fine-tuning yet to do.

I love .308 battle rifles...
:o

[61chalk]

For heavier bullets...180 to 220 brownells sells a Adjustable gas plug for the M14 to relieve pressure an fine tune the rifle for more accuaracy. I didn't know about this until the other day. Think Midway also sells them, so I'm told. It works just like on the Garand for heavier bullets an modern 30/06 ammo.




http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20456/Product/ADJUSTABLE-GAS-SYSTEM