Kel Tec KSG abuse and torture

Just found this video about the Kel Tec KSG. I was quite surprised about how well it held up and it looks like they fixed the problems that it had during it's first release. I for one am impressed as how fast and well that USCSOG operator ran the KSG, he fired it like it was a semi auto.

Now if only they could get them on the shelves at the LGS for a good price....

http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/shotguns/prison-guards-training-with-the-kel-tec-ksg/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+armoryblogfeed+%28Armory+Blog%29

pffft. any 590a1 or 870 can do that. Throwing your gun is not a torture test. Shooting it THOUSANDS of rounds no cleaning in REAL combat environments (not indoor prisons) and I will be satisfied

Are you planning on being destructive to your gun? I guess I don't get the folks who talk about abusing their guns. Many say their guns are nothing more than "tools", but they sure don't treat their Snap-on tools like they say they do their guns

pffft. any 590a1 or 870 can do that.

I think the idea of the KSG is that neither the 590A1 or 870 (or almost any other shotgun, for that matter) has 14+1 capacity in a package that's smaller than all of them as well.

It might be a small package with a lot of capacity, but its still a horrible gun. We got one, shot it, and sold it as used.

I wouldn't expect them to come down in price any time soon, either. There's one NIB on this forum for I think $1250. Good price currently, as we sold the used one for $1400, the same day we put it up for sale

Sorry, but I started laughing after the screen informed me that at no time were to weapons allowed to be loaded. Kinda hard to test the shotgun if you never shoot it.

I know, typo.

Just like the one about the NRA Ranger Masters. :)

Honestly, I'm still having a little trouble with the whole Department of Corrections Special Operations Group thing.

1:49. Pause the segment right when he takes the KSG from the guy to his left and throws it. Count how many heads the muzzle is pointed at. Yeah, that's a loaded shotgun pointed right at three guys faces. "SPECIAL" operations is right.

I had to stop watching when they give him the second shotgun because I was convinced I was going to see someone get killed.

Wait, Kel Tec made one? Well that's a first.

It might be a small package with a lot of capacity, but its still a horrible gun. We got one, shot it, and sold it as used.


Yeah. It's an interesting design and I like what they're trying to do, but it has issues. I wouldn't call it horrible, but it's not great.

pffft. any 590a1 or 870 can do that. Throwing your gun is not a torture test. Shooting it THOUSANDS of rounds no cleaning in REAL combat environments (not indoor prisons) and I will be satisfied

It wasn't to show that it's better but to show that it can stand up to the abuse that a Prison setting could do to it. To a Prison Guard, that is their real combat environment and that's all they need it for.

It might be a small package with a lot of capacity, but its still a horrible gun. We got one, shot it, and sold it as used.

Just because something has a rough beginning doesn't mean it is doomed for life from improvements.

By that logic, you should hold out until Kel Tec becomes a quality company that actually produces good firearms, and in a quantity that can be purchased by consumers.

I don't say this just off the cuff. I have owned several, not pre judging any I hadn't owned. All have been crap, at best. They only cost more than junk because they do have some cool ideas, that they can't produce, so what they do make brings a premium.

Are they still using plastic forends on those? http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/02/daniel-zimmerman/pump-gun-problem-kel-tec-ksg-rail-ruptures/

We have owned many Kel-Tec handguns - .32; .380, and 9mm. Currently have five. All of them have been flawless right out of the box. I couldn't ask for a better carry piece. If they can refine the KSG to meet the excellence of their other firearms then I really want one.

Personally I prefer a blued and wood stocked 870 over all other shotguns. Only gun that I have sold that I miss and want to replace more than others.

That video is a whole bunch of convoluted BS, made to appear like it was some kind of 'evalution' by an elite organization like the seals... P=lease..... I would gladly take a Mossberg 930 SPX or Benelli semi auto any day instead of this plastic toy.

Mossberg says Have a Nice Day.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/44723422/mossy.jpg

Anyone try to count the short-strokes?

.We got one, shot it, and sold it as used..
Why on earth would you do that? ug

They refer to themselves as "Operators"? Really? The Irishman in me did love the River Dance music though.

They refer to themselves as "Operators"? Really? The Irishman in me did love the River Dance music though.

On the totem pole of armed professions prison guards would be one step above armored car guards...with $7.75 an hour watchmen being at the very bottom. :D

Anyway, getting back on topic, I have 2 KelTec guns. While the craftsmanship is really nothing to write home about, they do get plus points for coming up with interesting ideas.

Wait, Kel Tec made one? Well that's a first.
lawlz

the count.....

During the 20 years I spent in MD's Correctional System, I was a good cop working a very bad neighborhood, oft with indifferent supervision and co workers, to widespread public apathy and dreck like you just spouted.

I suggest you learn something about Corrections before you spout off again here....

Certaindeaf-
Why would we do that? Well let's see... It was our money, and we had the intent of keeping it. None of us liked it, so we sold it. Is that an acceptable explanation for you? The guy that paid $1400 used didn't mind, why should you?

I stopped by the Kel Tec booth in St. Louis at the NRA show, and they had 4 or 5 of them. I made the comment that I had just found every one that had ever been produced. The kid working the booth tried to tell me that they were filling law enforcement and secret service contracts. Right!! I literally laughed at him. And he deserved it

I have shot a P3AT and loved it for what it was. Good small pistol that was reliable, accurate out to 21 feet, and light weight. I know NOTHING about their shotguns, other than what the internet tells me. I have not seen one in person, and until I do and get a chance to handle it I will reserve judgement.

I have also known a fair number of correctional officers. The were the cop wanna-be's at the department. They as a rule could not make it through the academy and wound up making just over min. wage, working crazy long hours just to survive. I agree with the statement above about them being just over night watchmen and armored car drivers. I say this as a former armed night watchman (college job). I do not see them being able to punish a firearm like a true special operations operator can, nor a S.W.A.T. member, or a Coast Guard boarding team. Those guys can break an anvil with a glass hammer.

The kid working the booth tried to tell me that they were filling law enforcement and secret service contracts. Right!

DAMN! you owe me a keyboard for that!.....Like the SS and others aren't going for the HK PDWs and similar

I'll get you a Kel Tec keyboard, so maybe you'll have a new one by 2015 :)

The guy in the video repeatedly calls their outfit a "tier one" special operations unit of...independent jail contractors? Battle and combat proven?

http://c3382683.r83.cf0.rackcdn.com/images/photo_lightbox/full/training/219.jpg

Man, these guys put Tier Two units like the US Army Rangers to shame. Rangers aren't allowed to mount two lights on their shotgun and one more on their helmet like some sort of Archimedean mirror weapon to make combatants spontaneously combust from lumen overload. The media page on their website is laughable.

The end of the demo video...throwing in a nine banger and shooting everyone on their way up the stairs? :uhoh:

I think our SERT guys might call BS.

am i the only one here who doesnt get the point of the 'test'....?

i mean, isnt a torture test supposed to emulate the working conditions of the firearm to the extreme.....what the hell does that have to do with throwing it all over the place?


is throwing the gun a new tactic for tactical operators i am not aware of?

i mean, wouldnt better test be to run a few thousand rounds through it without maintenance....

Certaindeaf-
Why would we do that? Well let's see... It was our money, and we had the intent of keeping it. None of us liked it, so we sold it. Is that an acceptable explanation for you? The guy that paid $1400 used didn't mind, why should you?

I stopped by the Kel Tec booth in St. Louis at the NRA show, and they had 4 or 5 of them. I made the comment that I had just found every one that had ever been produced. The kid working the booth tried to tell me that they were filling law enforcement and secret service contracts. Right!! I literally laughed at him. And he deserved it
It goes without saying that one would sell a used gun as used. You said you sold a used gun as used like you were being magnaminous or something so I was being facetious.

Nope, wasn't intended to sound that way at all. Maybe wouldn't have it I had just said we sold it, and not sold it used.

I know of dealers that would clean it up and still sell it as new. Makes me sick. Totally unethical.

^
I hear you. I probably shouldn't a done that but.. things like that bug me too when people do that. we're good

the count.....

During the 20 years I spent in MD's Correctional System, I was a good cop working a very bad neighborhood, oft with indifferent supervision and co workers, to widespread public apathy and dreck like you just spouted.

I suggest you learn something about Corrections before you spout off again here....
No disrespect for your work as such, I was referring to the video. A real operator is a different thing all together. That would be a seal, delta force, etc.

I can appreciate that nothing cracked or broke while being thrown around.


It is not really a test of the internals, but at least you know the largely polymer externals can take some abuse.



I am glad there is other people willing to throw around loaded guns and then proceed to fire them, because I sure wouldn't.
Throwing the gun with the muzzle spinning around, while not behind a berm or concrete block. Running over and picking it up, putting it next to my face, and then just expecting it not to have any problems.
Yeah I will leave that to the experts.
I do feel bad for the guys told to stand there as part of their job, while the guy in front of them throws guns around. But I guess they kept the chambers empty during the throws, I think I saw that text.
Of course that means they didn't really get any drop safety tests, because there was no round in the chamber to go off. (Not that they need one, most long guns will go off if they impact hard from the right direction.)

So really the tests demonstrated the externals won't crack or break during most use. (Although my experience with many plastics is as they age they get more brittle, so that could change.)

it would make a great entry gun,short,compact and 14 rounds of pure hell can be unleashed in a real hurry.it's not as fancy as the 870,but it has great potential also as a hunting weapon,because it does not fall under semi auto capacity restrictions.as far as the comments about throwing it around, in a real shtf situation,things get dropped,thrown,dropped while repelling,parachuting,falling off moving vehicles,etc. it's nice to know it can take a licking and keep on ticking.(timex)

in a real shtf situation,things get dropped,thrown,dropped while repelling,parachuting,falling off moving vehicles,etc. it's nice to know it can take a licking and keep on ticking.(timex)

And just how many keyboard commandos are going to be doing that stuff? Really - You are traveling downward by rope or gravity and your weapon isn't secured?

Too funny

And just how many keyboard commandos are going to be doing that stuff? Really - You are traveling downward by rope or gravity and your weapon isn't secured?

Too funny

He said it's nice to know his tools can take a beating and still work. I don't see where he claims he does it on the weekend or he can't wait till SHTF. Calm down.

The guy running that shotgun didn't make it look very good. My question is: How many of the failures were operator induced, and how many were a function of or problem with the gun or design?

My impression was that the guy doing the evaluation had some sort of pro bias towards the shotgun, otherwise, he would have given an objective explanation for all the times there were clicks, fiddling, and looking down at the gun to figure out what was going on.

As for all the "tier 1" stuff, I didn't know the USDOC *had* a "special operations" group. But it wouldn't surprise me. And it also wouldn't surprise me if they had a pretty nice training budget, plenty of cool toys, and guys that are probably pretty good at what they do. But I'd also assume they're pretty specialized. And maybe this shotgun's a really nice fit for their purpose. But if this is one of their instructors or team leads, I think he needs a great deal more fam time with this shotgun before making any more videos.

It isn't USDOC. Their .com homepage (stuffed with media pages full of Keltec shotguns) states they're a private contractor. Specifically: US C-SOG is the nation’s largest private government contractor specializing in corrections in the United States.

Just by seeing that guy operate that shotgun, I would say that short stroking it was operator induced and when he looked down and clicked something, pumped the gun and went back to firing was him switching mag tubes.

seems my response was deleted and my hand got slapped - sorry folks - but I just don't get the aspect of abusing ANY gun -perhaps some folks can enlighten this old FUDD so I get it

Thanks in advance

If someone is going to be using a weapon for fighting, combat, war, etc, don't you think that they should test it in this regard to make sure that it isn't going to break from a simple drop? Maybe test it further to make sure it can hold up to whatever conditions that weapon might go through. I don't do it myself and just leave it up to the guys on youtube to do it but it is nice to know how much my AK can stand up to abuse. These guys don't want to pick a new issue shotgun and then realize they break from being thrown. The firearms being abused to test them are pretty much just fighting weapons, nothing like an expensive O/U that would never be subjected to those conditions.

Wait, Kel Tec made one? Well that's a first.

:thumbsup:

Best line I have read all day!

the count.....

During the 20 years I spent in MD's Correctional System, I was a good cop working a very bad neighborhood, oft with indifferent supervision and co workers, to widespread public apathy and dreck like you just spouted.

I suggest you learn something about Corrections before you spout off again here....
I volunteered at a couple of local Jails and got to witness quite a few Correctional officers on the job, and I don't mean to at all to try to insult you, but they were most certainly lacking in any form of discipline or training. That probably wasn't true of where your from but from what I have seen at two local county jails...:scrutiny:

It isn't USDOC. Their .com homepage (stuffed with media pages full of Keltec shotguns) states they're a private contractor. Specifically:
Ahhhh. Thanks for the clarification. Also, the fact that their page is packed full of keltec stuff kind of supports my idea that there's a little bias. ;)

It doesn't look like physical fitness is very high on his list of priorities. But I'm sure that in prisons it's much more important to be able to shoot everyone in the constant human wave attacks ; )

This Garcia guy is really full of himself, just google him and you won't find a result without "senior team leader" in front of it.

He could hardly express a thought in the video without inserting some tactical lingo.

I also love the concept of torture test in scenarios like this. Look at the outfit, they aren't carrying these guns day in and day out for weeks on end, nor could they possibly carry on their persons the 1,000 or so rounds required to make it a "real" torture test. Why do they need a weapon that withstands these factors? Why dump it in ice water? Why not evaluate it based on its features and ergonomics?

But what do I know about combat environments? I'm only a Recon Marine and we don't even get a tier number : ( Maybe we should get a class from him about what combat environments are like!

Way to gimmicky and it'll take lots more training to make it run.
I can simply keep loading my 870 as i fire so i don't see the need for 14 rounds in dual finicky tubes.

I'm not a huge fan of Saigas but they've got it beat hands down.

To be honest, I didn't watch it. If in fifteen, thirty years if it's been proven/pervasive, maybe I'll consider it but probably not.