please help: errror on form 4473


PDA






knox007
October 2, 2012, 02:38 PM
hello guys... im new on the site and is amazing all the new things ive learn here..

i have a questions for you guys i hope you can help me, yesterday i went to walmart to buy my first gun... it is a .22 plinkster, so i fill the form 4473 and i was kind of excited when i was doing it it is my first purchase hahaah, so at that moment my wife call me she was in line for customer service to return something so i made a mistake...

(Question 11a) that asks specifically, "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you

i put NO in this answer .... i should put YES , i was filling this on the computer the guy printed the pages and told me we have a problem , you put NO instead of YES, so im not gonna be able to trasnfer the gun to you... i was like are you kidding me sorry i really sorry it was a mistake and he told me that is nothing that we can do and i have to wait 30 days to try again!! IS THAT TRUE???? i really have to wait 30 days or can i go to another place and get it from there???


thanks for you advice in advance!!!

If you enjoyed reading about "please help: errror on form 4473" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Sam1911
October 2, 2012, 02:44 PM
You can go someplace else. No harm done, they're just protecting themselves with a store policy like that.

dogtown tom
October 2, 2012, 02:45 PM
That is their store policy, not ATF regulation.

Just choose another WalMart or gun store.

gfanikf
October 2, 2012, 02:47 PM
Yeah, usually they just let you make the correction and put your initials in a circle next to the crossed out error, but I can see why with that one they might be hesitant. lol

knox007
October 2, 2012, 02:56 PM
ohhh thank you very much for your responses it really calms me down i tough it was like a very bad thing filling that form wrong... so i would go to another walmart and try again later and take my time to fill the form!!
thanks again!!!

clamman
October 2, 2012, 03:11 PM
Just wait until that burger king dropout who wouldn't let you correct your mistake goes off his shift and buy it.

Jim K
October 2, 2012, 03:22 PM
They are covering themselves, and I don't blame them. You put in writing that you are not the actual buyer. Then you say you are. So which is it, and why should they believe you no matter what you say later.

Most dealers would just trash the form and have you do it over, a better way than changing what is there. BATFE is getting really picky about those forms, even to something as minor as not putting a period after "St." in the address. This administration is trying to eliminate as many dealers as possible and using just that kind of nit-picking to do it.

Jim

Bubbles
October 2, 2012, 03:27 PM
ATF is looking for straw purchases here. By putting 'No' you are stating basically that a third party gave you the money to purchase the gun to then give to them. Big no-no, and I'm not surprised that WalMart nixed the sale.

In the future ignore let your cell go to voice mail and answer it when you are done filling out a government form.

Old Shooter
October 2, 2012, 03:29 PM
They are covering themselves, and I don't blame them. You put in writing that you are not the actual buyer. Then you say you are. So which is it, and why should they believe you no matter what you say later.

Agreeing with above quote, you have heard of operation Fast and Furious?

You just signed a form that said you are not purchasing the firearm for yourself. For all the counterperson knows he may be on candid camera and Federal Agents are just around the corner waiting to finally nail one of those gun shops that are supplying the Mexican Cartels with all their weaponry and make the BATF look good.

Go to another shop and pay attention to how you fill out the forms.

Jim K
October 2, 2012, 04:07 PM
Hi, Knox, I think you are going overboard on this, big time. Who said that if you make a mistake on a 4473 you have to wait 30 days before you can fill one out again? As I said, most dealers would just trash the errored form and have you do it over. But even if Walmart won't do that, you can go to another store, or come back to Walmart another time.

Even if you are in a "one gun a month" state, you didn't buy a gun or take possession of it. The store never signed off on the errored form.

Jim

NavyLCDR
October 2, 2012, 04:15 PM
BATFE is getting really picky about those forms, even to something as minor as not putting a period after "St." in the address.

Jim

That's interesting since the official address guide for the US Postal Service says to not use any punctuation. Example straight off the USPS.GOV website zip code lookup:

457 W MAIN ST
NEWCASTLE WY 82701

gfanikf
October 2, 2012, 04:17 PM
Hi, Knox, I think you are going overboard on this, big time. Who said that if you make a mistake on a 4473 you have to wait 30 days before you can fill one out again? As I said, most dealers would just trash the errored form and have you do it over. But even if Walmart won't do that, you can go to another store, or come back to Walmart another time.

Even if you are in a "one gun a month" state, you didn't buy a gun or take possession of it. The store never signed off on the errored form.

Jim
I've been told (after a dealer made an error) that they can't trash them since they're serial numbered. Now I may be mixing it up with the PSP Handgun one.

dprice3844444
October 2, 2012, 04:35 PM
just remember,1st question yes,rest no

dogtown tom
October 2, 2012, 05:47 PM
Jim K .....BATFE is getting really picky about those forms, even to something as minor as not putting a period after "St." in the address.
Horsehockey.
There is no such requirement in ATF regulations.

A gun store here in Plano insists that Federal law prohibits using any abbreviations at all on a 4473.........:banghead:

bikemutt
October 2, 2012, 08:41 PM
I went to buy a long gun in Oregon today, it was like I had driven to another planet. I filled out the 4473 and pointed out I have a UPIN, "a WHATPIN?, we don't use those here". OK I said, but if you don't it will be delayed. And it was, for 30 days! She actually wrote down I was delayed until November 2nd.

Now I'm not usually irritated by a reasonable delay but 30 days seemed excessive, I mean, what with hunting season and all. I sighed and begged her to call Oregon State Police back with my UPIN, which she graciously did.

She called me 45 minutes later saying I've been "approved", of course I'm now sitting at home back in WA, lol.

Sometimes I feel there is a fair amount of folklore surrounding a simple gun purchase. Oh well, traffic was light, nice weather, gotta look on the bright side of things :)

shiftyer1
October 2, 2012, 08:52 PM
I have always been taught no abbreviations but I think thats a store policy thing. Especially since it states that us postal abbreviations are acceptable right on the form.

As far as the forms being serial numbered.......if they are we are royally screwed because my shredder is full of forms with mistakes on them.

gfanikf
October 2, 2012, 09:39 PM
I have always been taught no abbreviations but I think thats a store policy thing. Especially since it states that us postal abbreviations are acceptable right on the form.

As far as the forms being serial numbered.......if they are we are royally screwed because my shredder is full of forms with mistakes on them.
Must be the PSP one.

Jim K
October 2, 2012, 10:03 PM
Remember, ATF agents have a bad habit of making up the rules as they go along. But maybe the problem was putting in a period; I only remember the dealer complaining about the absence/presence of a period that the compliance agent pointed out as a violation. I thought it absurd, but it seems that if they want to find a problem they can find one.

Jim

firesky101
October 2, 2012, 11:26 PM
Yeah gun shop workers are not walking law books. How could they be with how many darn laws we have on firearms. I had one local shop owner tell me that if I made any typos that we would have to wait till tomorrow to try again and charge me for the transfer again.:what: I have not been back to that "gun shop":barf:

dogtown tom
October 2, 2012, 11:26 PM
Jim K Remember, ATF agents have a bad habit of making up the rules as they go along. But maybe the problem was putting in a period; I only remember the dealer complaining about the absence/presence of a period that the compliance agent pointed out as a violation. I thought it absurd, but it seems that if they want to find a problem they can find one.
ATF considers all errors and ommissions as "willfull".......meaning the dealers license could be revoked.

A missing "." in "762x39" (instead of 7.62x39)is not anywhere close to being a violation, neither is a missing "." after an abbreviation ("Drive" abbreviated as "Dr" instead of "Dr.") Any IOI that is using those as violations should be reported to his Group supervisor.

But.........misspelling "Ruger" as "Luger" would be considerably more serious, as would recording serial numbers incorrectly, failing to complete the 4473, etc.

ATF even tells dealers what mistakes/errors/ommissions are most common:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/011812-industry-operation-inspection-results-presentation.pdf
Slide 7 shows that while the number of compliance inspections has increased, the number of revocations/denial of renewal has fallen.
Slide 11 shows the "Top Ten" most frequently cited violations.

What is most shocking to me is the number of missing firearms (slide 12) in dealers or manufacturers inventories is 18,000+............thats a lot of guns!

Bubbles
October 3, 2012, 09:00 AM
BATFE is getting really picky about those forms, even to something as minor as not putting a period after "St." in the address.
That was a much bigger problem under the Clinton administration, and yes the IOI's would ding dealers for it during compliance inspections. Now purchasers can use standard abbreviations for states, street, drive, etc.

MtnCreek
October 3, 2012, 02:28 PM
As far as the forms being serial numbered.......if they are we are royally screwed because my shredder is full of forms with mistakes on them.

They're supposed to be filed with the corrected form, not destroyed. A simple error can be corrected with a single strikethrough and initialed / dated. At least that’s how it was explained to me. Checking the wrong box would warrant a new form and you can't blame WM for not wanting to proceed. I would suggest going to a good gunshop for your purchase. You’ll have a better chance of dealing with someone that has a functioning brain and they may even know a little about firearms.

If you enjoyed reading about "please help: errror on form 4473" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!