[StrikeFire83]

Got a chance to shoot a S&W M&P Compact today. I loved it. Can't say I liked it more than my Glocks or XDm, but I really liked it and was hitting quite well with it. I'm beginning to think that my brain is just set up to shoot striker-fired pistols with no safeties.

There was a nice S&W 1911 there as well with a "tuned" 3LB trigger ... comparatively, I shot it like poop.

[biohazurd]

I prefer the m&p series to the glocks and xds. My m&p 9 is the most comfortable 9mm i have ever shot. Fits me like a glove. Striker fired guns are nice, but traditional hammer guns are just as good in my opinion.

[carbonyl]

What is the aversion with a safety? Just because you have one you don't have to use it. My SR9C has a safety that takes some effort to engage but no effort to sweep off. It seems unlikely that you would ever accidently engage the safety but I suppose anythings possible. Also my 9c has over 3000 rounds through with 0 malfunctions.

[TG13]

my BIL has an M&P .45acp and it just feels really good.. the grip feels great, i like the thumb safety, i like the shape/feel of the slide.. the stock sights are nice.. it has a nice weight to it, nice balance..

now, the problems i have with it.. the trigger.. the magazine capacity.. the mag disconnect.. the take down lever.. the safety billboards on the slide..

i really dislike the trigger.. really dislike it..

the funny part is, i bought his XD .45acp because he didn't like the trigger on it.. (he put 150 rounds through it and had it for 2 weeks, in total) he used the money to get the M&P, which he more than happy with..

i'm quite happy with my XD, although the M&P's feel is much sexier..

i dislike Glock for various reasons.. it's mostly the ergonomics of the grip..

[Tophernj]

It's kinda funny. I have a 1911. I love it and love shooting it. I definitely prefer steel guns over plastic. The heft. Recoil management thru weight. Just a lot of fun to shoot. Conversely I don't like the feel of plastic guns. They feel... cheap. They aren't nice to look at either (IMHO).

Now, ask me which one I shoot better.

C

[bds]

M&P models come with or without the frame mounted safety.

M&P .45acp ... i really dislike the trigger.. really dislike it.
Well, dislike no more. S&W fixed the M&P 9/40 triggers earlier this year and will be fixing the M&P45 triggers next -

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=674250

[mavracer]

You can have them I prefer to be able to reholster safely without having to divert my eyes so that I can watch the gun into the holster.

[mgmorden]

What is the aversion with a safety? Just because you have one you don't have to use it. My SR9C has a safety that takes some effort to engage but no effort to sweep off. It seems unlikely that you would ever accidently engage the safety but I suppose anythings possible.

"Anythings possible" is the exact reason its a problem. Just like all guns are to be treated as loaded, when you need a gun to shoot, all safeties should be considered as on until verified disengaged. That means that even if you never ever ever ever apply it, if you carry a gun with a safety, flicking off the safety needs to be part of your draw. That's more stuff to worry about.

I get that some people like them, and that's fine. I just don't think "just don't use it if you don't want to" is sufficient for the people who don't like the safety. For my carry gun, I don't just want a safety flipped off - I don't want a safety on the gun period. Smart manufacturers (like S&W) are wise to that and just make the safety a component that can either be there or not.

[Godsgunman]

Its all about personal preferance. I personally don't like stiker fired. I've had them and shot them pretty well but I like seing the hammer and being able to decock the hammer for carry purposes. As far as safeties, I generally like them because even though I keep all weapons in a safe unless they are on me, I have little ones at home and having a safety engaged also just makes more sense. Now of my 2 carry weapons one (s&w 6904) goes chambered with safety on the other (cz rami) goes chambered with hammer up since safety on that one only engages with hammer down (not a fan of cocked and locked personally). To each his own :)

[ritepath]

I really like my 9c no problems in 4 years so far. I'm thinking a 45 fullsize m&p may be my next pistol.

[MikeJackmin]

Sig P250 is another option. I have the subcompact and I like it very much. Long reset on the trigger though.

[Tophatter]

H&K P30/HK45 with an LEM trigger. No safety, but you can keep your thumb on the hammer when holstering. Best of both worlds, in my opinion. I'd be a little wary of AIWB carry without some sort of tactile way of ensuring nothing snags.

[Fishbed77]

I have a 1911. I love it and love shooting it. I definitely prefer steel guns over plastic. The heft. Recoil management thru weight. Just a lot of fun to shoot. Conversely I don't like the feel of plastic guns. They feel... cheap.

Some plastic guns feel "cheap" (Glocks, M&Ps, most Rugers, and all Kel-Tecs).

But some are quite nicely finished and feel anything-but-cheap (Walther P99 & PPQ, most H&Ks).

I would but M&Ps into the second group, but all the plastic mold flashing and and poor "cottage cheese" grip texture is a real turn-off for me.

[mgmorden]

I'd be a little wary of AIWB carry without some sort of tactile way of ensuring nothing snags.

Simple solution is that I just put the gun in the holster while the holster is off the body, then attach the whole rig. I don't bother with that routine for OWB kydex but it makes putting a gun into a leather IWB holster safer. Once its holstered and on the body there's nothing to worry about.

[StrikeFire83]

What is the aversion with a safety?

"Anythings possible" is the exact reason its a problem. Just like all guns are to be treated as loaded, when you need a gun to shoot, all safeties should be considered as on until verified disengaged. That means that even if you never ever ever ever apply it, if you carry a gun with a safety, flicking off the safety needs to be part of your draw. That's more stuff to worry about.

I get that some people like them, and that's fine. I just don't think "just don't use it if you don't want to" is sufficient for the people who don't like the safety. For my carry gun, I don't just want a safety flipped off - I don't want a safety on the gun period. Smart manufacturers (like S&W) are wise to that and just make the safety a component that can either be there or not.

mgmorden pretty much hit the nail on the head. I don't like safeties for all of the reasons that he just described. For me, the paramount reason to NOT have a safety on my pistols is that I don't need one. Period. I've been shooting and handling pistols for almost 8 years now, and I've never had a ND. The whole "don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire" rule has served me well. Also, the "advantages" of re-holstering a pistol with a safety are irrelevant to ME. I don't give a wiff about reholster speed...draw and presentment and firing speed are what matter to me and NOT having to flip a no/no switch in order to make my weapon operational is just "one less thing" to worry about.

Also I didn't know that S&W offered non-Shield M&P's with a safety, but good for them. More options lead to more sales, I reckon.

[mavracer]

I don't give a wiff about reholster speed
It ain't about the speed, it's about the ability to do it with one hand without looking.

[StrikeFire83]

It ain't about the speed, it's about the ability to do it with one hand without looking.

Okay, so what's the point of that?

[mavracer]

Okay, so what's the point of that?
There's a lot of reasons a person might want to reholster without looking down at the holster. The most obvious would be right after a shooting I sure don't want to be still holding my gun when the cops arrive and I sure don't want his buddie to come around the corner while I'm watching my gun so I'm sure I don't shoot my leg. So I'd sure like the ability to get the gun holstered with one hand without looking.

[beeb173]

I loved my M&P. the grip, the trigger, the ergos. And I hate my glock 26. Grip feels wrong and the trigger is not bad but not great. The thing is I can out shoot my full sized M&P w/ the Glock 26. Plus it's easier to carry. Hate to say it but Glock wins again.

[Fiv3r]

I much prefer the passive safeties of Glocks et al. I will say that leather holsters make me take my eyes off what I am doing besides holstering my gun. That said, my primary reason for the holster is good retention and fast draw. I don't really care how long it takes to put the gun back.

I do have a couple of Kydex holsters that I can holster my glocks without issue or looking at them. The gun only fits in the "right" way and the kydex doesn't fold or bunch over like leather. As a long time leather bender, I think making the move to dabbling in Kydex is in my very near future. Not very sexy or stylish, but nothing is sexy or stylish about a Glock either:neener:

[Robert101]

Strikefire, I'm different in that I shoot my 1911's way better than my Glocks. This comment is not in infer that either type of gun is better than the other. Some people have set preferences and no amouunt of convincing will move them an inch. I tend to like the vast majority of guns and do see certain benefits to each. Blonds, brunettes, redheads..... hey if its fine its all good to me.

Oh by the way, I do like the safety feature on my 1911 but darn if my CCW gun (Glock 27) is fine with me without a safety. That little finger thingy is not a safety in my world.

[StrikeFire83]

right after a shooting I sure don't want to be still holding my gun when the cops arrive and I sure don't want his buddie to come around the corner while I'm watching my gun so I'm sure I don't shoot my leg. So I'd sure like the ability to get the gun holstered with one hand without looking.

I mean if that's a feature that moves you, then by all means select for it. I think it takes me maybe 2 seconds to re-holster my Glock 17 when carrying in a Galco outside the waistband high ride holster...but you are right, it does take two hands (pinch the leather open with free hand) and I do have to look.

[StrikeFire83]

Robert101: I'm a big believer in not fighting what works for you. I like guns period, and I'll happily shoot 1911s all day and enjoy doing it. I'm just better with and carry Glocks (and maybe an XDm should she prove herself).

[armoredman]

Poly pistol with no safety that rocks? Got it covered.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/CZ%20posters/CZreallythatgood.jpg

[StrikeFire83]

^ I prefer striker-fired, but I put about 5K flawless rounds through a CZ-75B (sold to fund my Xdm-45 Compact). I dig CZ products, they're high quality, I just found others I liked more.

[mavracer]

As I said yes it's a ability I like having. Besides I quit worrying about missing/forgeting the safety on my draw before Gaston made poly/striker/safetyless popular. As you said options are good I do like DAOs but I prefer they have enough room for me to stick the end of my finger behind the trigger.IE Kahr or a DAO revolver.
I don't care what you shoot as long as we're shooting the same direction lol.

[sigarms228]

The Walther PPQ works very well for me.

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/kk9zz/PPQtarget121711a-1-1.jpg

[WinThePennant]

In my view, striker-fired pistols are the way to go.

For a lot of reasons, I go with GLOCK. Love my Glocks.

[mavracer]

I do have a couple of Kydex holsters that I can holster my glocks without issue or looking at them. The gun only fits in the "right" way and the kydex doesn't fold or bunch over like leather.
Right up until the time the corner of your jacket catches on the trigger, I'd think about keeping an eye on it, from what I've seen Glock leg looks mighty uncomfortable.

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

My holster is behind my hip ! I can't watch the gun into the holster if I wanted to ! I love my crossbread supertuck because it is easy to reholster by touch ! Kevin

[mdauben]

The Walther PPQ works very well for me.
I've always admired Walther products, but I would never carry a PPQ for SD. For me the deal killer is the odd-ball mag release. I suppose if that was the only gun you carried and practiced with it might not matter, but when every other gun I own has the standard button-on-the-side mag release I don't want to be fumbling in an emergency situation trying to remember which kind is on the gun I'm carrying today.

I love my Glocks, like what I've seen of M&Ps & Kahrs, most others I can find one thing or another on them I don't care for. YMMV.

[Fiv3r]

Right up until the time the corner of your jacket catches on the trigger, I'd think about keeping an eye on it, from what I've seen Glock leg looks mighty uncomfortable.
I understand your hesitation, but I'm just making a point that certain holsters make holstering the gun "safer" than traditional leather. My Kydex holsters are usually for range use since they are light and comfortable. Range use is OWB, shirt tucked in. However, all things being equal they do offer a more positive click and less variables than leather, especially well-worn leather.

I have a sneaking suspicion that most acts of Glock leg are due to poor handling and not the holster choice or foreign material/clothing getting caught. I used to be very, very nervous about handling a cocked Glock until I TRIED to pull the trigger (unloaded gun of course) without actively pulling the trigger. I jammed the gun in the holster, tried to get the trigger blade to hook on the side of the holster's lip, I mock dropped the gun and tried to catch it poorly, etc. I even took the corner of my jacket and tried to get the trigger to fire by inserting it through the trigger guard and out the other side. Just a little bit of corner slid right out. I had to literally pull it all the way through across the trigger face, then press the gun hard enough into the holster that not only did the gun not obviously fit due to all the material but it actually pulled my shoulders sideways before the Glock would FINALLY have enough tension against the trigger to fire. I'm not saying that it's foolproof or that Glocks don't require careful handling. I just feel that people who make them go off when they don't mean for them to probably weren't being careful with their finger placement. A 5.5# trigger isn't heavy, but it's not hair either.

In short, I totally understand that "stuff happens". My jacket zipper might get caught in there at just the right angle to cause the trigger to fire 1 time out of 1000. I'll just have to hope that 1/1000 is the time when I need to holster my gun without looking. I feel that the benefits of a Glock far outweigh not having a manual safety to mess with even if I might want to babysit it into its holster.

[Fishbed77]

I would never carry a PPQ for SD. For me the deal killer is the odd-ball mag release.

The Walther/H&K style mag release is actually a superior design for carrying. It's impossible to accidentally depress it accidentally in a holster, as is the case with just about every push-button release design.

Using the mag release is just a question of training. You will pick it up in no time if you try it. If you can get used to shooting with a Glock trigger, you can get used to using a Walther/H&K style mag release.

[EddieNFL]

That means that even if you never ever ever ever apply it, if you carry a gun with a safety, flicking off the safety needs to be part of your draw. That's more stuff to worry about.

Fortunately, I learned to walk and chew gum (simultaneously) at an early age.

[StrikeFire83]

Fortunately, I learned to walk and chew gum (simultaneously) at an early age.

Well, then go walk and chew it somewhere else. A lot of us don't like, need or want guns with safeties.

[Bozwell]

I'm not going to sit here and tell you to buy a gun with a manual safety and a hammer, nor will I claim a 1911 is somehow objectively better than a glock. That said, I think your inability to shoot a 1911 is really in your head more than anything, and this fixation on striker fired guns may be negatively affecting your shooting ability. A tuned 1911 with a light trigger is one of the easiest guns for any shooter to pick up and shoot accurately. .45acp is a soft shooting round, and it's difficult for a new shooter to really develop a flinch when using a very light trigger. Even if you're a glock person, if you can't pick up a 1911 and shoot it better than "poop", you should really evaluate your fundamentals and figure out what's wrong. It's fine to have preferences, but when your fixation with a design starts impacting your ability to use other designs properly, it's time to rethink things.

[CZ57]

That's one of the things I like about the XDm. I have the 4.5 in .45 ACP and I can check the status of my pistol in complete darkness with the loaded chamber indicator and the cocked status indicator. Some people don't like the grip safety, but I do, I don't think they realize that a big reason it's there is so that you can holster the weapon and not have to worry about it going out of battery.

StrikeFire83, if you want to improve the trigger pull on your XDm 3.8, I highly recommend the trigger kits from Powder River Precision. I installed the kit I bought, the "Match Easy Fit" and my trigger is outstanding for a polymer framed striker fired pistol. Take-up is almost non existent, weight of pull is about 4 lbs with no overtravel. Their newer "Ultimate" kit also includes their new sear and has the trigger stop on the rear of the trigger which you sand down until the trigger breaks. Probably an easier install than my "Match Easy" but I sure don't have any complaints about mine. It help make my XDm a TACkdriver. ;)

[checkmyswag]

M&P pro

[EddieNFL]

Well, then go walk and chew it somewhere else. A lot of us don't like, need or want guns with safeties.

Sorry, didn't mean to walk on your self-esteem.

[StrikeFire83]

Thanks for the condesention, Bozwell, but I shoot .45 caliber guns just fine, thankyouverymuch. Here's my most recent target with my Xdm-45 Compact @ 7 yards.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/strikefire83/XDm-45%20Compact/2012_09_157yards.jpg

I'm not going to win any shooting competitions, but I think this demonstrates decent combat accuracy after firing less 300 rounds through the gun.

Years ago, I had a Kimber Custom II that I shot reasonably well. I sold it because it was an unreliable piece of junkola. As for 1911 triggers being inherently "easier" for any new user to pick up and shoot well, I don't buy that. The S&W 1911, my friend called it an "E-series," the trigger had a LOT of travel and though I only shot 2 mags it was difficult to tell when the damn thing was going to break.

[Bozwell]

I fail to see your point. If you can't do the same at 7 yards with a quality 1911, having put that many rounds downrange, something's wrong. If a gun having a striker in it magically makes you a better shooter, you're psyching yourself out and fooling yourself into thinking you can't shoot a hammer-fired gun.

[mavracer]

Yes there's a difference between "I don't like chewing gum" and "I don't chew gum because I'm worried it'll interfere with my ability to walk"

[Esoxchaser]

Give me a polymer pistol with no safety...and I'll be happy.

As the old saying goes... "Whatever blows your dress up."

Personally I prefer metal guns with crisp SA triggers and safeties.
I am beginning to think the Metal/ SA trigger VS plastic and DA triggers can
pretty much be followed right down some other demographic lines, with the occasional meander of course..........

[CPshooter]

They make me happy too.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/TonyG749/photo-110.jpg

[EddieNFL]

As the old saying goes... "Whatever blows your dress up."

I thought it was "skirt." I hate dresses.

[KTXdm9]

To each his or her own, I guess. As mentioned, the M&Pc does have the option to go without a safety. Or, you could just leave it off, your call.

[breacher]

I don't care what you shoot as long as we're shooting the same direction lol.

Best thing I've read in a gun forum in a long time!!!

[hemiram]

I don't like plastic guns, but I can tolerate ones with normal triggers on them, the odd glock triggers annoy the hell out of me. I like the feel and weight of steel or steel and aluminum. I don't like striker fired guns, every one I've ever had was a dud, so I'll pass on any future ones. Don't like the looks of them anyway. Safeties don't bother me at all.

My ideal gun is pretty much a CZ SP-01, but any of the CZ-75 clones are great too, along with the Beretta 92FS, and I really like the S&W 3rd generation guns too. Give me steel, a hammer, and as long as it's not a 1911, I'm ok with it.

[Kahr33556]

For a carry gun I like no safety but at the range I like 1911 style

[hentown]

Right up until the time the corner of your jacket catches on the trigger, I'd think about keeping an eye on it, from what I've seen Glock leg looks mighty uncomfortable.
______

You're right! Neither Gaston, nor anybody else, can fix stupid! :rolleyes:

[jdmb03]

Caracal C is a nice poly gun, just picked it up this week.

http://imageshack.us/a/img6/363/pa061077.jpg

[StrikeFire83]

^ I'd like to shoot one of those some time, or the Steyer version, but I've never seen either.