Blue Dot with Hornady xtp


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JRWhit
October 3, 2012, 09:04 AM
Has anyone had experience using blue dot for 357 magnum loads. I am using it with hornady xtp 125 gn projectiles. All the load data provided by blue dot is for speer 110 gn and then it jumps to 140 gn. I am in belief that using load data for a 125 gn copper jacketed,not specified xtp, is safe for the xtp, but I would much appreciate the accounts of experience before proceeding. Current load I am going to work with has a starting load of 13.1 gn Blue dot,with a never exceed of 14.5 gn.

Also maybe a stupid question, When to use magnum primers. What I've read in manuals says to never use magnum primers unless load data specifically shows it. However I am yet to run across any load data that specifies its' use. When does the magnum primers come into use?

I apologize for the title. Fast typing results in misspelled words.

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steve4102
October 3, 2012, 09:25 AM
Alliant specifically warns aginst Blue Dot in the 357 with 125gr bullets.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=47935

JLDickmon
October 3, 2012, 09:40 AM
it's a question of load density vs. pressure curve, I'd think..

my $.02?
you'd be better off using 2400 in that application anyway..

Rule3
October 3, 2012, 11:58 AM
Direct from Alliant. For some reason they hide it in getting started??

I am not a fan of Blue Dot, it is flaming dirt unless used at max loads. There are better powders out there. It may be good for shotguns?

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/safety_notices.aspx

JRWhit
October 3, 2012, 08:24 PM
Well how do you like that? I guess load data isn't always as up to date as you think. I will have to do some bullet pulling tonight. Thanks to all I really appreciate that, I would not have even known about it otherwise. I just picked the powder up last night and would think they would have had that posted by the powders. I was even on alliants web sight and didn't see any warnings in the data section. Scratch that one off the list. Again,thank you.

Walkalong
October 3, 2012, 08:37 PM
I have used it with 125 Gr bullets, but it gives more recoil for the velocity than other powder that are suited to mid range .357 loads.

That, together with the fact Alliant warns against it now, is all the reason I need not to use it for that.

Unique is very good for 125 Gr mid range .357 loads. So is N340. True Blue works pretty well. I am sure others work very well too.

12.0 Grs of Blue Dot was giving me around 1375ish FPS from 6" barrels. 13.0 Grs is Speer #14's max. Personally, I would not be afraid to shoot them at 13.1 Grs if they are already loaded.

Blue Dot does not need mag primers.

zxcvbob
October 3, 2012, 08:43 PM
AA#7 is a good substitute for Blue Dot. Same performance with none of the drama, and it measures easier too.

JLDickmon
October 3, 2012, 09:31 PM
I am not a fan of Blue Dot, it is flaming dirt unless used at max loads. There are better powders out there. It may be good for shotguns?

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/safety_notices.aspx

It's an excellent shotgun powder. All of the "Dot" powders were developed for scatterguns.

I like it for my magnum turkey and goose loads.

DanTheFarmer
October 3, 2012, 11:42 PM
Regarding the use of magnum primers:

I'm more familar with what the load manuals say about rifle loading than pistol loading. Some rifle data will call for magnum primers for any ball powder while other will call for a regular primer for an otherwise similar set of conditions. What to do? Your call.

I'm having good luck with my 7mm-08 and Hodgdon's H414 powder. If I look at Hodgdon data for a Speer 145 grain bullet it shows a max load of 46.0 grains using a standard Remington 91/2 primer. If I look at the Speer data for the same bullet it shows using a CCI 250 magnum primer and a max load of 47.0 grains.

Just to add to the fun the Speer data shows different max loads for H414 and Win 760. We know they are the same powder in different bottles! Are the differences caused by lot to lot variation? Is load data not as absolutely carved in stone as we think (GASP!)?

Good Luck.

Dan

ljnowell
October 3, 2012, 11:57 PM
I prefer 2400 in my real magnum 357 loads. I load 125gr JHPs over 16.2-16.5gr of 2400. Plent of oomph. Alliant has data published up to 17.5gr of 2400 under a 125gr GDHP. Too hot for my gun, I like it too much.

ColtPythonElite
October 3, 2012, 11:58 PM
I loaded thousands of 125 gr JHPs over 14 gr of Blue Dot before Alliant came out with that warning and shot 99% of them out of one gun....never blew her up.

dgod
October 8, 2012, 11:07 AM
Work your way up from 10.0 to 15.5, I have usd the 15.5 with my J-Frame and had good luck.

Good Luck,
Dan

ssyoumans
October 8, 2012, 02:30 PM
Back before Alliamt's caution, I worked up some 125's with Blue Dot based of Speer No 11 manual which too predated the warning. From a 6" GP100, 14.0gr gave 1526fps which a) exceeded any factory loads I measured and 2) gave sticky extraction. I backed it down to 13.0gr and was still getting 1443 fps.

I have now moved on to 296 and 2400 for max power and Unique and power pistol for upper mid range loads (mainly for the SP101). Between 296 and 2400, 296 gives higher velocity, but 2400 is more versatile with loading less than max. 296 gave less flash, and less perceived recoil despite the slightly higher velocity.

I have been thinking about trying True Blue or AA#7, but haven't gotten around to it. I still use some Blue Dot with 158's on occasion.

JRWhit
October 9, 2012, 07:35 AM
After sleeping on it, and doing a little more research, I went ahead and shot the 125 gn xtp, Only had 5 worked up to try at the starting load, and am firing from a solid sp101. Went on to load 140 gn with blue dot and oddly enough, Their is less recoil from the 140 gn than from the 125 gn. Any rate, if the manufacturer says not to do it with 125 then I will be staying away from producing any more of those.

thomis
October 9, 2012, 08:24 AM
IMO, Blue Dot outperforms 2400 for heavier cast bullets in the .44 mag. More consistant reads on the chrony and tighter groups, at least for me. 2400 seems to excel for the lighter bullets, 240 grains and down.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb255/jtleamer/bluedot.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb255/jtleamer/bluedot2.jpg

Also, one of my most accurate loads in the .357 mag snubnose are 158 grain hard cast bullets over Blue Dot.

Steve C
October 9, 2012, 04:03 PM
I've loaded 13.8grs of Blue Dot behind any 125gr JHP (including Hornady XTP's) lit off with a magnum primer for close to 20 years now. Alliant no longer recommends using BD with 125gr bullets in the .357 mag. Personally I see no reason to change my load using powder bought before Alliants change in recommendations. Velocity of this load is right at factory full power ballistics or 1,450 fps from a 4" barrel and I have found it accurate.

Blue Dot is a relatively slow powder and produces some of the best velocities in the .357 mag. Its know to be a bit erratic in cold weather but that something that I never see in AZ. I see no point in using 18 to 22 grs of 2400 or H110 that flame cuts a revolver rapidly with increased muzzle blast and flash to get a similar velocity to my BD load.

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