[CoyoteSix]

Hello folks. I'm gonna need some wisdom today. :eek:

I don't have a modern fighting rifle. I have a Yugo M59/66 and a MN 91/30 as fighting rifles.

Do I need one? no, do I want one? YES :D

I'm a young'n on minimum wag, full time student. But because I'm living with family I'm not paying a ton of bills and just helping out the homestead. (I'll move out some time after I turn 21 and get sworn onto a Dept. and/or the economy levels out)

Basically I want an AR15, I'm fine with buying an upper and lower seperate to save money. I am NOT Okay with assembling a stripper lower.

I'm on a budget. I just need to be able to mount a 3x9 scope, hopefully run Wolf/Tula with alot of cleaning and lubrication, and I would like a full stock and 20" barrel. The last one isn't totally nessecary. first two are.

THANKS!

[JustinJ]

How can anybody else say if you can afford one? A better question is "what is the cheapest i can get an AR for"? The rest is up to you. Bargain basement prices i've seen are at about $600 but not for a 20". Maybe look for used?

[dom1104]

I could never afford to shoot an AR15 on minimum wage.

Thats just me personally, but shooting guns is not a poor mans game.

[aka108]

Save you money for now. Better things lie on the road ahead. Have patience.

[hardluk1]

You have to spend way more to do better than a M&P sport that can be bought for right around 600 dollars. Our LGS has one for 595 and that the same price I paid 6 months ago.

[tyeo098]

My girlfriend and I built matching AR-15's (consecutive serial numbers... cute eh?)
Mine was
100 for a stripped lower from a private sale
86 (shipped) for a PSA LPK + 6pos stock from PSA's labor day sale.
= 186 for lower half.
Nations gun show, Del-ton 16" middy upper (EXACTLY what I was looking for) WITH bcg, 329. I was floored. They had like 10 in stock at thet price too.

I already had a carry handle, so 329 for the upper half.

329+186= $515 for a 16" AR-15 carbine.

Now I just have to break it in.

To feed it I reload 223 at around 15c a round.
A 22LR conversion kit will be the best thing you can EVER buy.

[Big_E]

I'm a full time student with little income. I have a mostly BCM AR-15, not exactly budget. I don't shoot it often, except when I find good deals on ammo and have some spare change.

If you don't require (or want) full mil-spec attributes in the rifle, something like a DPMS or M&P Sport (no dust cover or shell deflector iirc) will do just fine. You can also pick them up at Walmarts now (depends on store and state).

If you are really tight on budget then just buy the lower, later on buy an upper, buy ammo as you find good prices.

[desidog]

I am NOT Okay with assembling a stripper lower.

Why the heck not? it's very easy, and it's not like your time is worth a lot of money.

[tyeo098]

I am NOT Okay with assembling a stripper lower.

New Frontier Armory fully assembled Poly lower. $109
linky (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/New_Frontier_Armory_LW_15_Complete_Poly_Lower_p/nfa-lw15blk.htm)

[ApacheCoTodd]

I could never afford to shoot an AR15 on minimum wage.

Thats just me personally, but shooting guns is not a poor mans game.
This is significant.

If the affording of the basic tool is potentially problematic, imagine how you might feel if after jumping through hoops to get one you just end up letting it go for lack of use due to excess expense in ammunition or lack of satisfaction due to the performance of the ammunition that you can afford?

On the other hand - good ARs will probably never be less expensive than they are right now and are always in the anti-gunners sights so maybe popping for one and salting it away whether you use it or not is a good idea.

If you do get one - take care with your hard earned money and save to get a complete firearm from a good manufacturer with a warranty. Should you get in a bind and need to sell it it'll be easier than with a "mutt" gun.

[MachIVshooter]

Best way to get into the AR game on the cheap is the S&W M&P Sport. They look a little funny without the dust cover or forward assist, but for $600, you can't beat 'em. And if you later decided you just have to have those two things, it's not like you can't plop on a new upper.

[Cosmoline]

It CAN be done if you save shekels and plan it right. The lowers are getting absurdly cheap these days. Used uppers are around if you keep an eye on gunbroker.

For example:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=309570811

Combine the two and there you go. Under $350.

[Teachu2]

Or get a M&P 15/22 and shoot it fixe times as much....

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Why don't you want to build your lower? Its really easy to do-following online instructions

Then buy the parts as funds allow-sooner or later you'll have a complete rifle exactly how you wanted it to be.

[KansasSasquatch]

Back when I was in a situation similar to yours, I was making about $10/hr. I bought a WASR-10 AK variant for $400 and once a month I would put about 500rounds through it but ammo was half the price back then. What I should have done was bought half as much ammo and only gone shooting every other month. It is a always a good idea to have at least 6 months worth of "bill" money saved up before spending money on "fun". You never know when your employer might decide they dont need so many employees.

[fatcat4620]

Buy a lower and a 22lr upper. At lest then you could shoot.

[readyeddy]

We'll, you're asking for wisdom so here's my 2 cents. Shoot a 22 rifle. You can get a 10/22 or Marlin for less than $200 and the ammo is cheap. At your age and economic situation you should be saving as much money as possible. Forget about your "wants" and you will be thankful when you turn 30, which will sneak up on you much faster than you think. As far as "fighting rifles" go, well, if you can't do it with a 22 rifle, then you probably can't do it anyway.

[Jackal]

If you can assemble legos, you can install a lower parts kit.

[LeonCarr]

In all honesty the Yugo SKS you already own will do 99% of what an AR will do.

Graduate school, get on with a department (Boise PD, Idaho State Police, etc), and buy yourself an AR to celebrate. That is better than buying/assembling one now and not being able to afford shooting and enjoying it.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[zhyla]

Save your money. I didn't shoot for the duration of my college career. There are worse things.

[CoyoteSix]

@ Teachu2

Actually I was really considering this! (the s&w mp .22) Would you say its better than buying a .22lr bolt conversion or dedicated upper?


Also, I've got 6 months of my bills covered. I just don't know if I want to leave it in the bank, keep it in a safe with some cash, or do half and half.

I have 2 .22 rifles, and a .22 pistol for marksmanship fundamentals as well.

[TimboKhan]

My thought is hold off until you can get what you want. You will be happier over the long run, it won't be such a sacrifice, and as you say, you don't need one.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[HoosierQ]

Get a nice .22LR (if you don't have one). It will always probably be the gun you shoot the most even if you can afford more...because they are just so darned much fun. Plus, in today's world, a person such as yourself may have other firearms needs that might be more pressing. Again, I don't know what you've got but were it me, I'd want the the most effective self defense/home defense weapon at my disposal...which is going to be some sort of handgun or a shotgun. Either can be had for a lot less than an AR-15.

[holdencm9]

I am not a huge fan of the CMMG conversion kit I have. It is the baseline model though, so it doesn't lock the bolt back on the last shot, etc. It is also really inaccurate, at least in my guns. I haven't bench tested it or anything but even casual range use, if I am shooting at 25 yards it seems like the groups double in size. I would opt for a dedicated upper.

[SSN Vet]

Kit building a Del-ton A2 middy on a stripped lower would be the lowest cost way to go (wonder how I know this?)

PSA had stripped lowers on sale this past weekend for $50

Feeding it after you build it is another issue entirely.

[henschman]

New Frontier Armory complete lower for $99 plus shipping and FFL transfer fee: http://www.riflegear.com/p-1388-new-frontier-lw-15-complete-polymer-lower.aspx?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=feed

Palmetto State Armory upper for $337.90: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/20/psa-20-5-56-1-7-cmv-chrome-lined-mp-hpt-upper.html

Palmetto State Armory M-16 BCG for $139.99: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/bolt-carrier-groups/m16-bolt-carrier-group.html

[Cosmoline]

Another thought--get to know some guys who build AR's all the time. They're liable to have spare parts they can sell you for cheap.

[Teachu2]

@ Teachu2

Actually I was really considering this! (the s&w mp .22) Would you say its better than buying a .22lr bolt conversion or dedicated upper?


Also, I've got 6 months of my bills covered. I just don't know if I want to leave it in the bank, keep it in a safe with some cash, or do half and half.

I have 2 .22 rifles, and a .22 pistol for marksmanship fundamentals as well.
Resale is better on a complete factory gun - so you could shoot it as long as you want, and recover most of your purchase price later if need be. My guess is that you'll like it too much to sell it - it's a great gun to start new shooters (and girlfriends especially) out on. And it's just handy and fun...

[mljdeckard]

A first-timer can assemble a lower while watching Leno in about thirty minutes. (Ask me how I know.) Remember, Stoner designed it to be detail stripped with the tip of a round of ammunition by a soldier in the field. The first time I did it I smacked myself for waiting so long.

If you just can't handle that, no matter, what, I would look in the pawn shops to see what someone's wife made them sell this week, and lay it away. (I saw a Grendel yesterday for $900.)

[Noah]

Hello folks. I'm gonna need some wisdom today. :eek:

I don't have a modern fighting rifle. I have a Yugo M59/66 and a MN 91/30 as fighting rifles.

Do I need one? no, do I want one? YES :D

I'm a young'n on minimum wag, full time student. But because I'm living with family I'm not paying a ton of bills and just helping out the homestead. (I'll move out some time after I turn 21 and get sworn onto a Dept. and/or the economy levels out)

Basically I want an AR15, I'm fine with buying an upper and lower separate to save money. I am NOT Okay with assembling a stripper lower.

I'm on a budget. I just need to be able to mount a 3x9 scope, hopefully run Wolf/Tula with a lot of cleaning and lubrication, and I would like a full stock and 20" barrel. The last one isn't totally necessary. first two are.

THANKS!

Hey! I am an under 21 student, work part time, live at home, pay for a car and other necessities, and will tell you first hand that it is perfectly possible to have a fighting rifle. My twin brother and I both have AKs, and a 9mm, and a 12 gauge pump, a Mosin Nagant, 4 .22 rifles, 2 12 gauge single shots, and a 20 gauge single shot. And he's about to pick up an SKS.

So you want to save money on the gun and you want to reliably shoot imported steel case? I was in your boat, dead set on getting an AR, thought I hated AKs, etc etc, and them my brother got a 5.45 Saiga. 14 cents a round to shoot, $15 mags, total $550 on the gun after the easy conversion... And it has never failed to do anything ever. Add the fact that I'm a lefty (Right handed ARs are no good for a lefty, esp the mag release... it stinks. )on a budget, and I was hooked! Just got a steal on a 7.62 AK myself, got a bunch of parts coming in a few days to finish her up.

That said, you know I had to say it, if you really want an AR, because you like them, because it's what the US military uses etc, that's totally cool. Looked at a S&W M&P Sport? They are said to be great, and in the video I watched on it the guy fired over 800 steel cased rounds in 2 days running in the desert with no issues. Maybe $650-700 for the gun.

If you are set on a 20" with an A2 buttstock, probably just do what everyone has said and build one. I prefer the 20" A2-type ARs myself, from the ones I've handled. Better balance to me, and it was what my Dad used in the Guard.

[Noah]

Some more thoughts- your Yugo is probably fine for a battle rifle. Get some 20 round Tapco mags, a polymer stock, and tech-sights and call it your own homemade utility rifle- useful guns. ;)


I think someone already said this, but I think it is a true stroke of genius! Get/build a complete lower, and get a .22lr upper! Then you can afford to shoot it for the meantime and have your Yugo as a go-to-war rifle. When you get some more money or sell some of what you have or move out and start your career, get a 5.56 upper. Then you have the .22 and the .223. :D

[mljdeckard]

Noah, gotta be careful with that. If you start switching out parts on a Yugo, you have to watch 922r. There are rules to what you have to switch out.

I have tricked my SKS to death, and I love it, but I wouldn't say it was a cost effective process. The single thing you could add that would really do the most good is the tech sight.

[CoyoteSix]

@mjldeckcard

I've reviewed and studied in depth 922r. Other than finding that it was complete BS, I have my Yugo half way there. Bayonet lug removed, Grenade launcher about to be removed and some TAPCO parts on hand.

Folks this is also just a kick around topic for ideas, I'm liking a .22lr ar though. Is there any AR-22 that will feed bulk ammo reliably? I've heard the SIG 522 feeds great, but that's not really an AR now :scrutiny:

Do you owners of the S&W MP 22 know if it will feed bulkammo reliably? (Remington thunderbolt: If it runs this, it'll run everything!)

[mljdeckard]

All gun laws are BS. But they're still laws. Don't break the law. Don't encourage others to break the law. If your Yugo is half way there, you are breaking the law.

[fireside44]

Forget the naysayers, choose out the rifle you want, save the money, then buy it. It is that simple. If you want something badly enough, you can find a way to earn it legitimately. If you can't earn it legitimately it is probably because you don't want it bad enough.

[fireflyfather]

There is nothing like having a rifle you assembled from parts by yourself, except, maybe building one out of raw materials... IF you buy a stripped lower, you can buy components a few at a time, and end up with exactly the components you want. You also will have a very intimate appreciation of how the various parts of your rifle work, much more so than the average gun owner who just buys one "off the shelf."

At this stage of the game, building up your lower, getting a decent .22 upper, and waiting on the full-house upper, might not be a bad idea. In any case, if you do end up getting into centerfire loads, a reloading kit is your friend in the long run. Can cut the cost of factory ammo by quite a bit (can get even cheaper than wolf, and MUCH better quality ammo).

[1911 guy]

I say keep the money in the bank. Go buy a stripped lower now, it'll cost you less than $200, mostly around $150 including tax.

Salt it away in your underwear drawer. During this time, spend some time researching how to assemble an AR. It really isn't difficult. Start to finish, with everything in front of you, it's an afternoon project. Or do it before lunch and shoot in the afternoon. :)

This will also allow you to determine exactly what you want. Buy parts as funds allow. All the tools you need to build an AR cost less than $100 if you buy decent quality stuff. A $900 dollar rifle spread out over months or a year is easier to swallow than a $600 rifle right now.

Or, look around for someone willing to let you borrow action blocks, an armorers wrench and a few punches for a day when you have all the parts. Dang, get all the parts and I'll mail you mine when you're ready. Just be sure to save that return address! I'm sure there's bound to be someone closer than Ohio, though. :scrutiny:

[CornCod]

As a practical matter stick to the Yugo SKS for now. If you don't have a cheap .22LR rifle now, get one of those and shoot the heck out of it. Wait for more prosperous days.

[CoyoteSix]

@1911Guy & Firefly father

Some of the best advice yet! I think buying and assembling a stripped lower, than the .22lr upper over time is looking like a very good option.

Can someone send me a link to the parts needed?

Also, don't lowers have to be shipped to an FFL? stripped or not?

[1911 guy]

Off the top of my head:
lower reciever
parts kit
buffer tube, spring and the buffer itself
buttstock
upper reciever
barrel and nut
gas block or sight tower mounted on barrel with handguard retainer* (if not free floating the barrel)
gas tube
snap ring, weld spring and delta ring* (holds on rear portion of handguards. Only required if not free floating the barrel)
bolt and carrier group

You'll need an armorers wrench, upper and lower reciever blocks, a foot pounds torque wrench, a 4" flatblade screwdriver, hammer, roll pin punches and a (if memory serves me) 5/32" punch.

Brownells has an excellent resource on their website called ARbuilder. Complete with videos. Step by step.

[henschman]

Shoot, back when I was in high school and college, I was making barely over minimum wage working part time, and I was still able to amass a pretty impressive arsenal (for a teenager)... and I still managed to have enough money for tinkering with project cars and partying. It is all about priorities and budgeting I guess! Of course there's been a lot of inflation eating up the value of your wages since those days (the early-mid 2000s) as well.

[Dr.Rob]

The 'one piece at a time' AR build might be the way to go. The lower is the easy part to assemble.

New Frontier Lowers complete can be had for about $100 + what your FFL will charge for the transfer. I have one, ran a bunch of rounds through it with a Colt upper. It's bit of a stiff trigger but it goes bang every time.

Midway has a complete DPMS Oracle flat top upper (no sights) for $375.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/513528/dpms-ar-15-oracle-a3-flat-top-upper-assembly-556x45mm-nato-1-in-9-twist-16-light-contour-barrel-chrome-moly-matte-with-glacierguard-handguard-single-rail-gas-block-flash-hider

Buy a stripped lower + a parts kit or a complete one, save a few $$ and buy a few magazines, save a few $$ buy the upper later. Save a few more $$ buy some flip up sights by Mag-pul.

It can be done, but YOU have to be frugal, and get it one piece at a time.

[Cluster Bomb]

I have 10+ guns. I worked ft then pt on min wage. It can be done. I have purchased about 5 in 8 months...time patance and sacrafice.

I have come to the realization that ill never have certain guns some smug rich guys on here have. Or the stockpile id like in ammo and guns. But I'm happy and wife is too. We carry and are safe.

[dprice3844444]

the smith is a good entry level ar15.start with that.it will do everything you will need to do.plus,you get a warranty.plus,you can upgrade by just changing uppers.on the sks,years ago i bought a sks magazine exactly like the original 10 rounder in 20 rounds.no 922r violations ref detachable mags.you can still used the stripper clips.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I can't afford much either so I got an AK74. It's a less expensive gun usually and fires 5.45x39 which is around 16 cents per round so I'm able to buy more and shoot more ammo through it. Already have 2,500 rounds through it since I got it in March. I've come to prefer the AK platform too so I don't feel as though I'm missing out that much either.

http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r617/FIVETWOSEVENTHR/IMG_0442.jpg?t=1349408973


I have come to the realization that ill never have certain guns some smug rich guys on here have.

Just because some can afford more doesn't make them smug. I can't afford much but I don't hate people because they can.

[Cluster Bomb]

Was only noting the some part of the crowd who feal that if you can't buy the 1500 1911 than don't get the 700 one. Or the one that laugh at the word layway

There is a gun shop owner near me 10miles and he doesn't do business with people who ask him if he has a layway and he's on here.

Don't get me wrong. I don't get pissy or what ever if somone can afore certain things and I can't

[IdahoSkies]

If your yugo is reliable it really will do what you want it to do. I just built my first AR (while watching the presidential debate no less). It really is very easy, and you don't need a specialized tools, despite what a lot of people say.

But on a student budget: buy a stripped lower and hold on to it. Bargin shop and DO NOT be in a hurry. It can be done. If you really want an AR, just plan on it being a long process. Start a penny jar and drop all your change in it. If you don't mind polymer lowers, $39.99 at Palmetto Armory will get you in the game. What made an AR possible for me, was stretching it out over time, a part here, a part there. It can be done, but with patience. But I spend far more on ammo than I do on the weapon. Keep that in mind.

[fireflyfather]

But I spend far more on ammo than I do on the weapon. Keep that in mind.

^ This. You NEED to invest in a reloading kit ASAP once your rifle is assembled. A basic reloading kit can be assembled for under $200 with all new parts, if you are willing to use Lee Precision equipment (I do!). That will dramatically reduce the cost of ammo if you are willing to buy components in bulk. If you want plinking ammo, then surplus pulled powder is the way to go. Buy components in bulk. Did I mention that you should buy components in bulk?

If you are so inclined, for your SHTF/Zombie Apocalypse stash, buy an 8lb jug of powder, 2k bullets, 2k primers, and 2k once-fired Lake City brass.

Or, look around for someone willing to let you borrow action blocks, an armorers wrench and a few punches for a day when you have all the parts. Dang, get all the parts and I'll mail you mine when you're ready. Just be sure to save that return address! I'm sure there's bound to be someone closer than Ohio, though.

Honestly, you don't even need ANY special tools to do an AR, if you are careful. several (many!) layers of masking tape with a bit of duct tape over it, and a pair of vice grips works just as well as a stock wrench. Those same vice grips with more masking tape can take the place of a roll-pin punch for the bolt release roll pin (and makes it harder to break off the fragile metal that pin goes into). Regular steel punches can be used to do the rest of the pins if you are careful and use masking tape covered in duct tape.to protect the surrounding metal. The vice block is nice, but not mandatory if you have a friend to hold onto things, or some scrap wood lying around to build a jig. I assembled my first AR lower with no special tools.

Expect to pay about $400 new for the .22 upper, and it doesn't really make sense to buy that as separate pieces. When you build your centerfire upper, you can shop around for exactly the parts you want, or you can buy a quality complete carbine upper for around $500.

I personally like the 1/8 Melonite Polygonal 16" for general kicking-around carbine and light target shooting out to 300 meters. Mine is a tad over MOA when I do my part, and I'm using crappy bulk FMJ bullets in my handloads. I'm hoping to get sub-MOA with some Z-max bullets I just acquired. I got that upper at a local California shop that specializes in black rifles for $499. You can find cheaper lowers, especially if you don't mind a slick-top style upper and no-name parts. For a SHTF rifle, though, I'd rather have a little bit more rifle than I am ever likely to need, and 10 years from now, I'm not going to regret that I skimped $100 on my upper.

Save up and buy once. Find economies (like reloading, not buying special tools, starting with a .22 upper) early on, and put those savings towards things you want longer-term (reloading component stash, magazines, magazine pouches, low-profile rifle case, rails/magpul MOE handguard, light mount, sling, chest rig, TA-31/RCO ACOG, Eotech, Aimpoint & magnifier, bipod, forward pistolgrip, spare bolt, spare lower parts kit, steel targets, etc...)

[1911 guy]

Armorers wrench is needed to install a barrel. Just about everything else can indeed be improvised. Did my first lower with a ball peen hammer and steel 5/16" punch.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Was only noting the some part of the crowd who feal that if you can't buy the 1500 1911 than don't get the 700 one. Or the one that laugh at the word layway

There is a gun shop owner near me 10miles and he doesn't do business with people who ask him if he has a layway and he's on here.

Haven't really noticed that at all. Those that think that don't usually last that long on this forum.

[langloisandy]

+1 on building it if you have the time to buy parts, negotiate and such. I built a retro 20" for $500.

Check around at local shows and dealers. See what they have for sale!

Andy

[TexAg]

To answer your question about the M&P-22, yes it feeds bulk very well. I've used the Federal bulk from Wal-Mart no problem. I can't say about Thunderbolt though. Needless to say, I have put more rounds through my .22 than my Sport, much more affordable!