A question about gifts.


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Moparnut
October 3, 2012, 10:47 PM
I gave my stepson a Marlin 30-30 for his bday. The other day I was going to trade my little 380 on another 30-30. When I was discussing it with my wife (gun was initially for her), my stepdaughter overheard the conversation and asked if she could have instead of me trading it. I told her I would think about it. So my question is would giving my 16 yo daughter a handfun for Christmas be ok? Both firearms are in my possession in a locked safe. I understand they can not legally own them(3030 & 380) until they get older. I will keep them until that time. I think I am more concerned of what may happen if she said she was given a handgun for Christmas. Opinions, comments? Thanks in advance!

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medalguy
October 3, 2012, 11:21 PM
If she's mature enough to be able to handle it safely, why not? Never too young to learn to handle a firearm in my opinion. Not like she's going to take it out on her own, right? I see nothng wrong with it as long as your wife agrees.

wolfe
October 3, 2012, 11:25 PM
I got the biggest part of my pistol collection as gifts from my aunt and several before I was 18.

robhof
October 3, 2012, 11:26 PM
My son could strip and reassemble an M9 by 14 and if my daughter had shown any interest in guns, she would of had one to shoot under supervision, until she was of age. As medalguy said; if she's mature enough, why not?

cheeze
October 3, 2012, 11:29 PM
Your stepson can't legally own the 30-30? Why? Is it law in Arkansas?

You know what they are capable of as far as responsibility, so you have the responsibility of making the right call. If they are ready for them, go for it! If not, train them.

Moparnut
October 3, 2012, 11:58 PM
He is not 18 yet. She is very proficient and safe with it.

allaroundhunter
October 4, 2012, 12:22 AM
As long as you remain the legal owner of them (and in possession until they are of age) and she is mature enough, go for it!

I wouldn't want her to go around telling all of her friends and teachers that you gave her a gun, but aside from that, nothing wrong with it, IMO.

OARNGESI
October 4, 2012, 12:49 AM
so you think it is ok to give your son a gift before 18 but not your daughter?

allaroundhunter
October 4, 2012, 12:50 AM
so you think it is ok to give your son a gift before 18 but not your daughter?

I think he is more concerned about the handgun vs. rifle argument that is sometimes made.

Inebriated
October 4, 2012, 01:05 AM
What's there to be concerned about? If she's proficient and wants the gun, just tell her it's hers. If you're going to be with her while she's shooting, and she isn't carrying, I can't think of one thing to worry about. The gun is still technically yours. She just calls it hers.

so you think it is ok to give your son a gift before 18 but not your daughter?

Lol... Sociology...

Moparnut
October 4, 2012, 01:06 AM
Yes I am more concerned about the hand vs rifle issue. I would buy her a rifle if I thought she would shoot it. However, she really likes that little handgun. It is not a boy/girl or son/daughter issue.

MachIVshooter
October 4, 2012, 01:52 AM
Federally, it is perfectly legal for her to possess a handgun under the age of 18 so long as:

-she is on private property where the owner is ok with it (like your home)

or

-she is under your direct supervision

or

-she is engaged in legitmate sporting events with it and has your permission, i.e. hunting or formal (club, association) target shooting. Parental/guardian supervision is not required under these circumstances.

He is not 18 yet.

No federal minimum age for possession of long guns.

allaroundhunter
October 4, 2012, 01:58 AM
No federal minimum age for possession of long guns.

This is true, but it still is 18 for handguns.

Remllez
October 4, 2012, 09:59 AM
I think it's great that she has expressed an interest in guns! Teaching is so much easier when she wants to learn. As said before, only time she has it is when her Pops is with her until she's legal to own it outright, at which time she will have had proper training.

Art Eatman
October 4, 2012, 12:36 PM
Post #12 pretty well covers it.

NavyLCDR
October 4, 2012, 02:28 PM
Federally, it is perfectly legal for her to possess a handgun under the age of 18 so long as:
-she is on private property where the owner is ok with it (like your home)
or
-she is under your direct supervision
or
-she is engaged in legitmate sporting events with it and has your permission, i.e. hunting or formal (club, association) target shooting. Parental/guardian supervision is not required under these circumstances.
No federal minimum age for possession of long guns.
Post #12 pretty well covers it.

Respectfully, Art....post #12 contains erroneous information. This is the actual Federal law (notice the "and" that I highlighted). All four conditions must be met, (i), (ii), (iii), AND (iv) and there is no single exception for on private property or under direct supervision.

18 USC 922(x)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(3) This subsection does not apply to—
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—

(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile’s parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm,
(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile’s possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and
(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

Spats McGee
October 5, 2012, 11:14 AM
Caveat: I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. What follows is not legal advice. I am merely providing information. If you want real, honest-to-goodness legal advice, you'll have to go buy some.

With that out of the way, here are what I consider to be the relevant Arkansas statutes. There may be others, but here are the ones most directly on point.

(a)(1) No person in this state under eighteen (18) years of age shall possess a handgun.
(2)(A) A violation of subdivision (a)(1) of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(B) A violation of subdivision (a)(1) of this section is a Class D felony if the person has previously:
(i) Been adjudicated delinquent for a violation of subdivision (a)(1) of this section;
(ii) Been adjudicated delinquent for any offense that would be a felony if committed by an adult; or
(iii) Pleaded guilty or nolo contendere to or been found guilty of a felony in circuit court while under eighteen (18) years of age. . . .

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that at the time of the act of possessing a handgun or firearm:
(1) The person is in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property in which he or she has a possessory or proprietary interest, except upon the property of a public or private institution of higher learning;
(2) The person is a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties;
(3) The person is assisting a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties pursuant to the direction or request of the law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces;
(4) The person is a licensed security guard acting in the course and scope of his or her duties;
(5) The person is hunting game with a handgun or firearm that may be hunted with a handgun or firearm under the rules and regulations of the Arkansas State Game and Fish Commission or is en route to or from a hunting area for the purpose of hunting game with a handgun or firearm;
(6) The person is a certified law enforcement officer;
(7) The person is on a journey, unless the person is eighteen (18) years of age or less;
(8) The person is participating in a certified hunting safety course sponsored by the commission or a firearm safety course recognized and approved by the commission or by a state or national nonprofit organization qualified and experienced in firearm safety;
(9) The person is participating in a school-approved educational course or sporting activity involving the use of firearms; or
(10) The person is a minor engaged in lawful marksmanship competition or practice or other lawful recreational shooting under the supervision of his or her parent, legal guardian, or other person twenty-one (21) years of age or older standing in loco parentis or is traveling to or from this activity with an unloaded handgun or firearm accompanied by his or her parent, legal guardian, or other person twenty-one (21) years of age or older standing in loco parentis.

Ark. Code Ann. 5-73-119 (West)

. . .(9) “Minor” means any person under eighteen (18) years of age; and . . .

Ark. Code Ann. 5-73-101 (West)

(a) A person commits the offense of furnishing a deadly weapon to a minor if he or she sells, barters, leases, gives, rents, or otherwise furnishes a firearm or other deadly weapon to a minor without the consent of a parent, guardian, or other person responsible for general supervision of the minor's welfare. . . . .

Ark. Code Ann. 5-73-109 (West)

Kyle M.
October 5, 2012, 11:23 AM
I don't see a problem with it but I was also given my first firearm at age 12. By the age of 14 I had acquired 17 various handguns, rifles, and shotguns which I kept in my room under my supervision. Surprisingly enough my whole family was supportive of my fathers decision on this, and it has lead to a wealth of firearms knowledge and experience that I find uncommon to those of my generation. I even get the owner of my lgs calling me up from time to time to come evaluate some odd specimen or give advice, how cool is that. I have also come to understand the value of historic firearms and don't see them as old junk as most people from my generation do. I also have yet to embrace the whole tacticool market.

hermannr
October 5, 2012, 07:47 PM
I think you are confusing ownership with possession. Back when I was a kid, I got my first firearm (a 22 rifle) at 12, and personally purchased my first pistol at 16. (all in the 50's)

Now that we have the CGA68, things are different,

However in my will, I have a High Standard Trophy pistol that goes to one of my (13 year-old now) granddaughter. It is perfectly legal for her to inherit that handgun, it would be hers...but she cannot "possess" it without meeting one of the state requirements (adult supervision, competition etc) until she is 18.

IMHO: You can give your stepdaughter the pistol, but she cannot be the sole possessor, and take it out on her own, until she meets the age requirements in your state.

NavyLCDR
October 6, 2012, 12:25 PM
I think you are confusing ownership with possession.

IMHO: You can give your stepdaughter the pistol, but she cannot be the sole possessor, and take it out on her own, until she meets the age requirements in your state.

and age requirements in Federal law. But you are correct - ownership and possession are two entirely different situations. Prohibited persons can own guns, they just can't possess them.

hermannr
October 7, 2012, 03:54 PM
Hej Navy. Why did I say "state requirements"? Because they are more variable?

NavyLCDR
October 7, 2012, 08:30 PM
Hej Navy. Why did I say "state requirements"? Because they are more variable?
However, some states, such as Vermont, have possession laws which are more lenient than Federal law. In that case, a person may be in compliance with all state laws, but still be violating Federal law. If one wishes to be a "law abiding citizen" they must comply with laws at all levels of government - Federal, state and local.

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