Palmetto AR value?


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Beskar'gam
October 4, 2012, 11:13 AM
Greetings all, first post here as you can probably tell

I've been shooting pistols for a few years now and have been looking into getting into the AR-15 game. The main prohibition to this has been the price of what I am starting to understand of the "better" manufacturers.

I came across one for sale from a family member, but I would like to get an estimated value. Seller is asking $600.

From what I can tell it is 1978-79 production Palmetto State Armory AR-15, A2 style - as far as I can tell. The lower is the only part where there is an obvious manufacturers stamp, so I am assuming that the entire rifle was manufactured by them. Caliber is 5.56

All springs are new(-ish) and it comes with 2 30-round mags and 2 or 3 10 rounders, soft case, original manual, cleaning kit, scope, and probably around 100 or so rounds.

No idea on round count, but the bore looks OK under a bore-light. Both the fore-grip and stock are cracked a bit where each joins to the rifle, but I understand those to be easily replaced.

Is $600 a fair price? If it helps, it looks very similar to the one pictured in Post #7 here: http://m14forum.com/ammunition/117084-palametto-state-armory-has-free-shipping.html

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tyeo098
October 4, 2012, 11:35 AM
Was PSA around in the late 70's? I thought they were a new company. What makes you think its from the seventies? 600 is still a good deal either way. I just finished a delton franken-build for 515.

ny32182
October 4, 2012, 11:36 AM
PSA hasn't been around nearly that long. If it is a PSA lower and unknown upper, you should find out what you can about the upper.

Beskar'gam
October 4, 2012, 11:52 AM
What makes you think its from the seventies?

Owner claims '78-'79 production - I thought Palmetto may have made complete rifles at that point. Their website says they've been around since '75

Serial on lower is in the mid 4000 range

How would one identify the upper?

ny32182
October 4, 2012, 12:03 PM
Barrel marking would be one good piece of info. Pics would help.

Beskar'gam
October 4, 2012, 12:35 PM
Barrel marking would be one good piece of info. Pics would help.

Forgive my ignorance, but what would I be looking for? And where would it tend to be?

ny32182
October 4, 2012, 12:43 PM
If the barrel is 14.5" or longer, it is usually on the top of the exposed barrel not too far back from the muzzle.

Pics of the entire gun, barrel marking, and lower receiver marking(s) and possibly the bolt carrier group will give all the information needed to make an educated guess. But at the end of the day it is not very hard to put together a bunch of AR15 parts, so if the seller doesn't truly know the entire history of the rifle and/or you don't trust him completely, then there isn't really much of a way to prove the source of most of the parts. Many of them pretty much look the same.

ny32182
October 4, 2012, 12:46 PM
In general, for a basic used AR15 in the current market, unless it is a factory Colt, you can probably do a little better than $600 if you are patient. You can put together a new one with known quality parts for not much more than that.

Flyincedar
October 4, 2012, 12:51 PM
I've personally seen Palmetto transferrable M16s, so yes, they have been around that long

henschman
October 4, 2012, 01:07 PM
If it's that old it would be a Palmetto Armory, not a Palmetto State Armory. PA made milled AR receivers back in the 70s, while PSA is a fairly new company that has been making regular cast lowers for a few years, and just last year started selling uppers and complete rifles. You say it is an A2 style, rather than the A1 style your pics link to? Either way, I'd say it is worth $600. It's definitely not something you see every day.

Beskar'gam
October 4, 2012, 02:15 PM
If it's that old it would be a Palmetto Armory, not a Palmetto State Armory

May indeed be PA, and my brain inserted the "State"

You say it is an A2 style, rather than the A1 style your pics link to?
Could be an A1, actually. Frankly I'm not sure. Like I said, I'm a pistol shooter not an AR guy, but I'd like to be;) What's the difference between the two?

If the barrel is 14.5" or longer, it is usually on the top of the exposed barrel not too far back from the muzzle.
I'll take a look tonight and see what I can see.

I've personally seen Palmetto transferrable M16s, so yes, they have been around that long
Well...as the full story goes - rifle was purchased in 1978 (or so) for use in 3-gun. It sits now as it came out of the box (aside from the new springs), so I assume it came assembled. Manual it came with was, strangely enough, a little blue book that said M16 on the cover. It is, however, semi-auto only

Girodin
October 4, 2012, 03:23 PM
I've personally seen Palmetto transferrable M16s, so yes, they have been around that long

According to their face book page, Palmetto State armory was founded three years ago.

http://www.facebook.com/PalmettoStateArmory/info

Is it possible what you saw was a Palmetto lower with registered drop in auto sear or something similar?

Fishbed77
October 4, 2012, 05:22 PM
The now-defunct Palmetto Armory of the 1970s-early 1980s (which was affiliated with Olympic Arms) has no relationship whatsoever with today's Palmetto State Armory, based in Columbia, SC (South Carolina being the "Palmetto State").

Girodin
October 5, 2012, 04:14 AM
Two companies with similar names, interesting.

Beskar'gam
October 5, 2012, 09:25 AM
Good Morning, Everyone

Checked out the rifle again last night - the lower is indeed stamped Palmetto Armory (No "State")

#s on the lower are SN 47XX - I'm not sure if the SN prefix is a year code or if it just means "serial number"

If the barrel is 14.5" or longer, it is usually on the top of the exposed barrel not too far back from the muzzle.
I believe it is a 20". The only markings are on the underside of the barrel - C MP C is stamped there

I still don't know the difference between A1 and A2:confused: But it is A1 style

Pic attached, it's a bit dark but best I could do from my phone

ny32182
October 5, 2012, 09:29 AM
Its a grainy picture, but it looks like an M16A1 clone to me. Definitely 20". It also looks like it has A1 style handguards, stock, pistol grip, and carry handle/rear sight.

Hopefully someone will be along who is familiar with the "C MP C" exact marking... normally the "C MP" part would indicate "Colt, magnetic particle inspected" which would lead one to think it is a top shelf barrel, but the last "C" is throwing me a bit there...

What does the rollmark on the lower look like?

Beskar'gam
October 5, 2012, 09:48 AM
In the MP portion of the the C MP C, the M and P are overlapped on the edges nearest each other - kind of like , but different letters of course

Looks like this (http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/sitebuilder/images/C-MP-C-sm-234x156.jpg)

What does the rollmark on the lower look like?

This one (http://media.photobucket.com/image/palmetto%20armory/bluevtx/palmetto/2006_0507palmetto0009.jpg) is not the same rifle, but gives a better view of the stamp on the lower - yay for Google images;)

helotaxi
October 5, 2012, 10:29 AM
PSA is a fairly new company that has been making regular cast lowers for a few yearsThey're forged, not cast and they don't make them in house. They have them OEM'd by someone else to their specs, just like most everyone else. Aero Precision does some of theirs and I don't remember who the other company is that does their OEM work. Their complete rifles are assembled in house.

Regardless that isn't what the OP is asking about.

Flyincedar
October 5, 2012, 10:35 AM
Is it possible what you saw was a Palmetto lower with registered drop in auto sear or something similar?

Given that I do this for a living, I would say no, it's not possible for me to confuse a select fire lower containing the proper components, with a DIAS, or the proper Form 4

Girodin
October 5, 2012, 03:03 PM
I see now that there are two companies of similar name. I was curious how one possibly could have seen a gun from the 70s from a 3 year old company. That mystery seems to have been clarified.

I certainly wasn't trying to assert you were anything less than very knowledgeable about the firearms you deal with. I hope you didn't take it that way.

henschman
October 6, 2012, 12:52 AM
Looks like a sweet rifle... I love how the A1s handle, with that nice light profile barrel. It's got a GI spec Colt barrel on it, with those markings. I'd say it is worth every bit of $600. You sure couldn't build a new one like it for that kind of money.

The difference between A1 and A2 is that the A1 has a light profile barrel all the way out, whereas the A2 has a light profile under the handguards, but a heavy profile from the front sight on out (yeah, it's kinda pointless). The A1 has a rear sight that is only adjustable for windage and you have to adjust for elevation at the front, whereas the rear sight on an A2 is adjustable for both windage and elevation. The A1 has a 1/12" twist barrel, for shooting the light 55 grain ammo, whereas an A2 has a 1/7" twist barrel if it's mil spec (some civilian versions have a 1/9). The A1s came with triangle handguards, whereas the A2s came with round ribbed handguards (though they are interchangeable).

Beskar'gam
October 9, 2012, 09:07 AM
Well, I would guess that makes it an A1 then :p

It's mine as of this evening at any rate, thanks for the help, all:D

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