Remington 147gr BONDED Golden Sabre vs regular 147gr Golden Sabre


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C0untZer0
October 4, 2012, 01:23 PM
Does anyone know if or how the Remington 147gr BONDED Golden Sabre performs differently - than the regular 147gr Golden Sabre, as far as penetration and expansion in ordnance gel and versus the various barrier test?

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481
October 4, 2012, 01:31 PM
The only data that I've seen so far (in claibrated gelatin) is this, but I am not sure if he is testing the bonded or unbonded load. I am of the impression that this PDF lists the unbonded load.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/9x19mm%20Luger/9x19mm%20Luger%20Summary%20Table.pdf


Have you looked over at m4carbine.com?

Common sense would suggest that the bonded load would do better against barriers, but until the lead hits the windshield it is hard to say.

Certaindeaf
October 4, 2012, 01:59 PM
In the 147 I really don't think it'll matter. On the other hand, if you're going like +P+ velocities with 115's or the like, the bonded earns its keep. It really won't come apart/shed the jacket.

C0untZer0
October 4, 2012, 03:33 PM
In the Winchester Ranger T line - I think the bonded bullets are a different design from the RA9T (for instance).

And there is a huge difference in penetration, the bonded 124gr +P is penetrating to 18" while the regular 124 +P penetrates to around 13"

I'm wondering if the Golden Sabre bonded versus regular have a big difference like that.

Certaindeaf
October 4, 2012, 03:35 PM
I think they're a bit different. The jacket of the Sabres are brass (regardless of being bonded or not) and the jackets of the Winchester are copper.

RBid
October 4, 2012, 10:33 PM
The standard 147gr Golden Sabers have come apart to varying degrees in some vids I've seen. If I recall correctly, the jacket completely separated in the Hog's Head Ballistics video. I may be mistaken.

Either way, I would trust that round. It has done well in every test I've seen.

jim243
October 5, 2012, 03:39 AM
Golden Sabre, as far as penetration and expansion in ordnance gel and versus the various barrier test?

I use the 124 grain 9mm and the 230 grain 45 ACP Golden Sabres in my handloads and they are by far the most accurate bullet I can find for pistol.

99.999999% or your shots will be on paper, let's hope you never need that 0.000001% shot.

As to expansion, it is a non issue, if you can't hit exactly where your aiming all else does not matter on how it expands or even if it expands.
Jim

RBid
October 5, 2012, 04:45 PM
I wouldn't say that expansion is a 'non-issue'.

Shot placement is obviously by far the most important consideration, but that doesn't mean that round selection is irrelevant. If I put a shot on target with a round that penetrates well, and expands well vs putting a shot on target that barely blooms, there is a difference.

Correct placement + good round = win

Bozwell
October 5, 2012, 05:27 PM
I use the 124 grain 9mm and the 230 grain 45 ACP Golden Sabres in my handloads and they are by far the most accurate bullet I can find for pistol.

99.999999% or your shots will be on paper, let's hope you never need that 0.000001% shot.

As to expansion, it is a non issue, if you can't hit exactly where your aiming all else does not matter on how it expands or even if it expands.
Jim
What are the odds you can hit EXACTLY where you want to hit in a SD situation? If it works out that way, great, but I wouldn't rely on it. Look at statistics about how many police bullets actually hit their target - not in the exact spot where the officer wanted to hit the target, I'm talking hit the target at all. By all means, we should all train as much as we can and be as prepared as possible, But if you're counting on being able to hit exactly where you intend to hit in a SD situation, you're fooling yourself.

Also, how does thinking about expansion somehow discount thinking about accurate shooting? Are you suggesting that somehow the bonded bullet would be less accurate?

1858
October 5, 2012, 06:40 PM
Does anyone know if or how the Remington 147gr BONDED Golden Sabre performs differently - than the regular 147gr Golden Sabre, as far as penetration and expansion in ordnance gel and versus the various barrier test?

Bonded bullets have a much better chance of retaining their jackets as they pass through a barrier, however, the barrier will reduce the bullet's velocity and bonded bullets don't expand as well as non-bonded bullets as the velocity decreases. So if you plan on shooting through a barrier, a bonded bullet has a better chance of retaining more of its mass but the bullet may not fully expand in the intended target. I'd prefer that scenario rather than have a bullet lose its jacket and have to rely on the soft core doing enough damage.

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