Recoil reducing muzzle brake that doesn't irritate other shooters


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B M-P
October 5, 2012, 02:58 PM
I am looking for a muzzle brake for my .308 bolt and would like to reduce the recoil, but I would like to avoid blasting those around me (and my own hearing).

Any recommendations?

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taliv
October 5, 2012, 03:17 PM
though some are definitely worse than others, all of them are louder and more annoying

if you really want to be courteous, i recommend getting a plastic barrel or box and cut holes out of each end so you can shoot through it. line it with sound dampening foam. it cuts WAY down on the noise. set it on the ground in front of you if shooting prone, or mount it on a wooden board if shooting from a bench so you can set your rifle on the board and have the brake sit in the middle of the barrel

SilentScream
October 5, 2012, 03:45 PM
You can always try one of the linear style brakes that are showing up more and more on the AR/Tactical style rifles.

Girodin
October 5, 2012, 04:52 PM
f you really want to be courteous, i recommend getting a plastic barrel or box and cut holes out of each end so you can shoot through it. line it with sound dampening foam. it cuts WAY down on the noise. set it on the ground in front of you if shooting prone, or mount it on a wooden board if shooting from a bench so you can set your rifle on the board and have the brake sit in the middle of the barrel

That probably meets the legal definition of a silencer.

18 USC 921 (a)(24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

If you can legally own a suppressor that is the best option for reducing felt recoil as well as reducing blast, flash, and noise. Otherwise I would suggest earplugs under ear muffs for you and those around you.

LeonCarr
October 5, 2012, 04:55 PM
I don't think the "Shooting Muffler" meets the definition of silencer/suppressor because if you are shooting through the box, and it is not attached to the firearm, it is not a silencer/suppressor.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Girodin
October 5, 2012, 04:57 PM
Where in that definition does it say it has to be attached to the weapon?

rcmodel
October 5, 2012, 04:58 PM
No it doesn't fit the definition.

Unless you attach the 55 gallon foam lined drum to the firearm.

A sound damper barrel or box for outdoor range use would be no different then an indoor range with sound dampening panels over & around each shooting position.

rc

Girodin
October 5, 2012, 05:19 PM
Again show me something of legal authority that says it must be attached. I don't know as I haven't researched it much. However, I wonder if it is like statutes for drug paraphernalia. They are actually written in incredibly broad terms. Almost anything could meet them. Many items could meet the definition or could be innocuous, plastic baggies, apple cores, soda cans, even glass pipes, bongs, etc. I've prosecuted cases that had questionable items. What it ends up turning on in practice is showing use. Use ends up being pretty definitive. A box with foam or a barrel just sitting there are not "for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm." When you use it for that exact purpose it is.

barrel or box for outdoor range use would be no different then (sic) an indoor range with sound dampening panels over & around each shooting position.

Just thinking out loud, one clear way to distinguish them is the latter is a fixture. That alone might mean it is not a device. The second way I would argue it is that a shooting stall is not portable and the definition deals with portable weapons (although the argument to the contrary is that the firearm has to be portable and there is no requirement the deice be). Lastly, one could distinguish them by pointing out that they actually serve different functions. The box is being built for and specifically used "for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm," a shooting stall demarcates shooting positions, acts as a physical barrier to brass and debris, and really doesn't muffle a shot in any appreciable way.

We know full well a device does not have to be attached to a gun to be a silencer. Bust out your lathe build one and never attach it to a gun and you are still in very hot water. The question seems to be does it need to be capable of being attached? If so the question is then what would constitute capable and being attached? Does it need to screw on? Is duct tape enough (like so many soda bottle silencers which few question meet the definition)?

Z-Michigan
October 5, 2012, 05:21 PM
The "linear brakes" soften the recoil a little bit and direct the blast downrange, making life more pleasant for the shooter and people behind or next to the shooter. Just don't expect a major recoil reduction. There are several companies making them and all are similar.

As for the sound insulated box, I suppose that could be construed as a suppressor since the definition seems to catch something that is defined to suppress a portable firearm, and is unclear whether the device needs to be attached or portable. BUT... BUT... a pillow or automotive muffler could also qualify under that interpretation. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, but I think that something large and bulky that rests on the ground is unlikely to get you in legal trouble with the BATFE. You can always write their technical branch and ask, if you want to make one but only with certainty that it's legal.

FWIW, I've read on a forum (possibly here) that Washington State views such a device, even if permanently attached to a club's shooting line, as an illegal suppressor under their state law on suppressors. YMMV.

TITAN308
October 5, 2012, 05:22 PM
If you hold a pillow up to a barrel and shoot through it, your pillow has not magically become a silencer instead of a pillow.

Edit: This is actually from the sticky in this forum about hearing protection:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Turborex/barrel.jpg

~Abstract~
October 5, 2012, 05:27 PM
Thinking out loud...

If you "permanently" mounted guns around your property...could you attach silencers, since those are not then "portable"?

Girodin
October 5, 2012, 05:28 PM
If you put a soda bottle over the end of your gun, or a rifle it has?

What is your legal basis for saying the pillow used in such a way is not a silencer?

Also one key difference is you did not construct the pillow for the express purpose of muffling a gun shot and then use it for that purpose. Again I'm not saying it necessarily would be. I am saying that based solely on the definition in the Federal code there is an argument it could be. There are some cases about when things equate to being redisgned to be silencers. I'd need to read much more before i could form any real opinion though. Things that still needed to be drilled, and tapped i.e. they couldn't be attached to a gun yet, have been ruled to be silencers. See U.S. v. Davis, Cr. No. 8:93-106, Report of Magistrate, (D.S.C. June 21, 1993), and Order of Dismissal, September 24, 1993.

We could also go into the long history of, shall we say, interesting ATF legal opinions.

If you "permanently" mounted guns around your property...could you attach silencers, since those are not then "portable"?

Hahaha, I also thought that.

TITAN308
October 5, 2012, 05:31 PM
I won't argue the gray area tactics of that agency.

If you take a 2 litter bottle and place it on the end of the muzzle and tape it place, that may be the kicker verse hanging it on there.

No idea.

What about shooting from a tree stand house? If you are firing from the inside to the outside? Is your tree stand house now a suppressor? Its just nothing more than a bigger version of a box.

rcmodel
October 5, 2012, 05:38 PM
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar139.htm

rc

Girodin
October 5, 2012, 05:48 PM
Is your tree stand house now a suppressor? Its just nothing more than a bigger version of a box.

I would argue it falls outside the definition the same way shooting lanes at the range do.

Again certainly not legal advice or anything approaching authoritative opinion, however, I would think the more something is designed and built solely for muffling the sound of a shot, and the more it is used solely for that purpose the more likely it is to meet the definition in the statute. I have not really searched for and do not know if we have other sources of law, such as case law or even other statutes, that inform that definition. I would also tend to think, but again have no real authoritative basis for it, the more easily moved and used something is the more likely it could fit into that definition (i.e. being a device as a opposed to a fixture or something else, some of that might be semantics but a lot of the law is semantics and fine distinctions).

RcModel, I did a quick skim of that link. Does it contain any info about the legalities? I didn't see anything in my brief skim and quick search for key words.

Red Cent
October 5, 2012, 06:55 PM
This works surprisingly well on my 223 AR.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5594/Product/Levang-Linear-Compensator

jogar80
October 5, 2012, 07:00 PM
Try an Edwards Recoil Reducer. Not as effective as muzzle brake, but it does work. I have used one on a very light hunting rifle.and it helped. It is a tubular looking thingy that goes installed in the buttstock

Warp
October 5, 2012, 09:02 PM
or just let er rip...
my 50

[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/rogertc1/shoot50bmg.jpg[IMG]

I like how there are other shooters on the line to concern yourself with being courteous to, as the OP of this thread was asking about.

Jim Watson
October 5, 2012, 09:45 PM
It would take a contorted (i.e. government) interpretation to call a baffle box on the bench a silencer. There are a lot of them around.

A soda bottle taped to the muzzle IS considered a silencer. You can even buy threaded adapters to screw a bottle (or an oil filter) neatly to your barrel... with payment of the $200 tax.

The OP should bite the bullet and buy a real silencer. Pay the tax and shoot quietly and with less recoil.

B M-P
October 5, 2012, 10:16 PM
Not being into NEF stuff much I have a dumb question:

Some have suggested a supressor, I know there is the $200 transfer tax, is there an ongoing license issue with that as well or is it a once done deal?

Thanks for all the great information


(P.S. someone was charged recently with a silencer violation for holding a potato (really, I couldn't make this stuff up) over the muzzle of a pistol. It is all about intent.

rcmodel
October 5, 2012, 10:23 PM
One and done.
Unless you sell/transfer it to someone else, then they owe another 2 bills.

It can be used on the one weapon, or 47.
It matters not what you put it on.

rc

DeMilled
October 5, 2012, 10:26 PM
To actually try and answer your question...

I suggest you look for a brake that directs the gasses to the front and not soo much to the side, or back at you.

I have a 308 using one of Teludyne Tech.'s muzzle brakes and it is an effective brake, yet is not as obnoxious as other style breaks that I've been next to one the firing line.

I'm not sure if Teludyne sells their muzzle brakes as a stand alone product but it wouldn't hurt to call them up and ask. Teludyne is staffed with great people, call 'em up and see what's what.

http://youtu.be/Kwe363_CpzU

DeMilled
October 5, 2012, 10:33 PM
This looks promising.

http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/Troy-Claymore-Muzzle-Brake-762mm-_p_578.html

Swampman
October 5, 2012, 11:27 PM
@ B M-P, Sad to say, but living in California means you're outta luck with owning a suppressor.

I also doubt you'll have much luck with finding a non NFA muzzle brake that won't increase muzzle blast.

If your main concern is recoil reduction, you could try putting lead shot in hollow areas of your stock.
It's cheap, easy, and just as easily removed if you don't like it.

If you'd like to reduce sound signature, check out the sticky at the top of the page about avoiding hearing damage from powerful rifles. In post #92 Ranb says that he was told by the ATF that a non attached, ground mounted noise reducer is NOT considered a suppressor. I'd pretty much trust Ranb's word on anything related to suppressors.

helotaxi
October 6, 2012, 09:25 AM
In a purely technical sense, the external baffle box cannot fit the definition of a "silencer" or "muffler" as defined above since the report of the firearm is not silenced, muffled or diminished; it is merely kept from propagating. It's no different in that way from the soundproofing in an indoor range that keeps the neighbors happy. The actual report enters the air un-muffled, silenced or diminished but is externally dampened/contained/constrained. If that's illegal, then they need to shot down every indoor range because they are all designed to silence, muffle or diminish the sound of firearm reports when the listener is outside. Likewise, hearing protection would be illegal if marketed to/for shooters.

Silly arguments all, and all driven by a corrupt agency grown out of Prohibition. Prohibition died, and the BATF should have died with it along with the NFA.

B M-P
October 6, 2012, 11:08 PM
Thanks for the info.

I thought that was the case in CA having read the regs for work quite a few times, but I am always hopeful for a loop hole.

I'm trying to reduce the weight/length/recoil of the rifle (2A 7.26) for hunting and so that my wife can shoot if comfortably (more than once).

Is 5/8-28 the standard muzzle thread?

dubbleA
October 7, 2012, 08:11 AM
Depending on caliber, 1/2"x28 and 5/8"x24 are standard rifle muzzle threads. Of course there are other less common threads used.

Swampman
October 8, 2012, 02:39 PM
B M-P,
"Standard" in the US (not that there's really an official standard that I'm aware of) for rifles is 1/2"x28 for .22 and smaller rim and centerfires and 5/8"x24 for larger calibers up to .30 cal. When you get into imported rifles, things can get a bit confusing. 7.62x39 AK's for instance have a 14x1 metric, LEFT hand thread. The manufacturer of my .30 cal suppressor specifically says NOT to use Locktite or Rocksett on the QD mounts, so unless you torque the mount down tightern' Dick's hatband (also not recommended), you end up screwing the mount OFF as you screw the suppressor ON.
I just keep a small crescent wrench with some electrical tape on the jaws handy these days.

Ranb
October 21, 2012, 01:44 AM
I am looking for a muzzle brake for my .308 bolt and would like to reduce the recoil, but I would like to avoid blasting those around me (and my own hearing).

Make or buy a silencer.

if you really want to be courteous, i recommend getting a plastic barrel or box and cut holes out of each end so you can shoot through it. line it with sound dampening foam.

This is effective. I made one from three foam filled steel doors that tamed the blast from my 50 bmg rifle. It eventually succumbed to the muzzle blast and I am working on built from steel drums.

That probably meets the legal definition of a silencer.

While it could, according to the BATE it does not. When I was trying to determine if WA RCW 9.41.250 prohibited the use of these boxes (the local DA said it would) my local Rep requested I write the ATF and ask them. They replied below.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/ATFsilencerletterpg1a.jpg

Unless a person is arrested and charged with violating the law concerning the use of an unregistered silencer for using an unattached box, we will not know what the courts think. I think I am safe enough using a box having the BATFE letter in hand. The Kitsap County prosecuting attorney also says it would be impossible for him to prosecute anyone for using a shooting box in Kitsap County

Ranb

x_wrench
October 21, 2012, 07:42 AM
well, going back to the ORIGINAL question, i would recommend a "Gentry Quiet " muzzle brake. there is no rocket science to it, it is not magical in anyway. what makes it different from most is the holes are drilled to vent the gasses (and some of the noise) FORWARD, away from the shooter and directing it down range. i had one installed on my Marlin Guide Gun. between the relatively light weight of the rifle, and the amount of recoil that comes with full power (not trapdoor) loads, this thing wanted to literally jump right out of my hands. the m.b. helped this issue tremendously. and when i shoot this out in the woods (no ranges close by), even without any hearing protection, i notice zero noise increase. i am sure that the woods do a fine job of absorbing a lot of the noise. but to have a zero increase has to say something about the brake itself.

rc109a
October 21, 2012, 09:24 AM
While I knw this is a little expensive, after shooting the rifle and being next to it shooting for over a week it works great. It directed the recoil away from the shooter as well as the gas. I was able to keep the muzzle on target with very little rise. Shooting next to it was pretty tolerable as well.
http://http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=kx368762&cat=141&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title= (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=kx368762&cat=141&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=)

Art Eatman
October 21, 2012, 01:02 PM
To deal with recoil when shooting from a bench rest, I suggest getting a high-quality recoil pad installed. A shoulder pad on the shooting shirt or shooting jacket is a common aid.

My trick when testing heavier cartridges like the .300 Win Mag is to interpose a small sand bag between the butt pad and my shoulder. It adds about a pound to the weight of the rifle, and spreads the recoil across a wider area of my shoulder. Makes "biggies" painless. :)

mtrmn
October 21, 2012, 01:24 PM
Here you go, in light of attempting to stay on track with the OP:
http://www.kiesfirearms.com/Parts_and_Accessories.html

About halfway down the page

This is the only linear brake I've been able to find for anything bigger than .223. I do not own one, I own a YHM suppressor...but that is a very expensive and PITA way to accomplish your goal. Well worth it to me, but not everybody....

HKGuns
October 21, 2012, 10:53 PM
.308's aren't known for being huge recoiling rifles. Depending on the weight of the rifle, of course, a .308 should be more than tolerable in the recoil department. I have a light .308 and it is quite comfortable to shoot.

My suggestion is to shoot it more and become accustomed to the recoil.

Kachok
October 21, 2012, 11:46 PM
How long have you been shooting your 308? I have owned two featherweight 308s and neither one of them was hard kicking even for a little guy like me. I would advise you to invest in a good recoil pad for your rifle or a PAST shoulder pad those really take the edge off of magnum cartrages. Muzzle breaks are a last resort for very high recoil rifles, they greatly increase noise, and they increase the rifle length which can be a pain in the butt if you hunt in the woods.

Kiln
October 22, 2012, 12:10 AM
Keep in mind that the rules can be interpreted in many ways and it could or could not be in your favor. For instance a shoestring is considered a full auto conversion when rigged to certain rifles in certain ways.

jogar80
October 22, 2012, 01:28 PM
As I stated earlier, I have used this, and it does work.

http://www.edwardsrecoilreducer.com/

Shawn Dodson
October 22, 2012, 02:41 PM
BattleComp

http://battlecomp.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=3

readyeddy
October 22, 2012, 03:06 PM
A 308 doesn't need a muzzle brake. Not enough recoil.

jogar80
October 22, 2012, 03:17 PM
A 308 doesn't need a muzzle brake. Not enough recoil.
I disagree, totally. Depending on the weight of the rifle, stock design, etc.... a .308 could really need a brake. I have a remmy 700P in .308 I shoot all day long, doesn't even have a buttpad, no problem. I shoot a remy 700 bdl in 30-06 with 220gr bullets. Also no buttpad, also no problem. A have a browning x-bolt micro-hunter in .308 that was making me develop a flinch, even with light 150gr bullets. Nasty kick and pretty good muzzle flip. I put a brake and a recoil reducer and now its a joy to shoot. Point is, if the OP feels he needs a brake or something, then he needs a brake or something.

B M-P
October 23, 2012, 01:22 AM
Thanks for all the good info.

The reason I want to reduce the recoil is that I would like my wife to be able to shoot it more than once and I would like to avoid the purple shoulder after a box or two at the range.

Just for the record it is an A2 SMLE with a 18" barrel and an aluminum butt plate. I'd like to keep the butt plate unless I can find a pad that is hinged to allow access to the compartment in the stock.

Does the Edwards reducer work better than just adding the equivalent weight to the rifle?

I'll look into the linear breaks.

Alas, A supressor would be great but the PRC(alifornia) doesn't thing I need one.

madcratebuilder
October 23, 2012, 08:54 AM
"Standard" in the US (not that there's really an official standard that I'm aware of) for rifles is 1/2"x28 for .22 and smaller rim and centerfires and 5/8"x24 for larger calibers up to .30 cal.

You well find 3/4X28 used with some small caliber heavy bull barrels.

To the OP, the "pepper pot" style of muzzle brakes offer some reduced recoil without the concussion found on some.

The Linear brakes like the Levang comp do little for recoil reduction. They are more about noise reduction, directing noise away from the shooter.

Get the wife a recoil should pad, several very good choices on the market. I shoot dozens of different rifles and found this to be the best option to control recoil. Control the shoulder and not the rifle.

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