[friscolatchi]

Hi to all. Today I had the chance to take by wife's 18 yo cousin who is slated to go into the USMC in Feburary 2013. Being a North Jersey boy, he has never had the chance to handle a firearm, except for paintball a few times. The FFL doesn't have my LE6920 neutered yet (NY Compliant) so we shot a M1600 22lr, M1 Carbine, and the SUB2000 in 9mm, and finished off with a 9mm pistol, MP9c. We started at the basics, safety and got to shot paper for a few hours. He did well and was pretty serious. When I get the Colt, I'll have him up again. I'm happy to have the opportunity to introduce him to firearms. We only scratched the surface of what he's probably in for.

[r1derbike]

Good first intro! Kudos!

[bogon48]

Sounds like a good start. The Marines will teach him all he needs to know. But in conjunction with your hands-on intro, maybe he'd like to read a 2001 version of the training manual: http://www.scribd.com/doc/432351/USMC-MCRP-301A-Rifle-Marksmanship

Not sure how relevant this manual is with respect to current training because it's for the M16A2, and I believe they shifted to the M16A4. However, the shooting basics are sound. Perhaps a current Marine can speak up on this.
I am not a Marine, and my military days are 40+ years behind me. Take anything I've written with a grain of salt.

[Ehtereon11B]

I trained on the M16A4 as well as the A2. There are no fundamental differences between the two. The A2 is lighter because they don't (usually) have quad rails. The A4 is a flat top for optics and backup sights. Other than that they shoot the same.

I got bit by the firearm bug in the military and just haven't stopped. Having grown up in a similar regime aka state I never handled a firearm other than BB or paintball guns before I was handed an M16A2 and a few mags of ammo.

[friscolatchi]

Thanks. I'll get that link to him.

[postalnut25]

I applaud you introducing the young man to firearms. His interest will probably get stronger once he is in the Corps.

However, you might want to hold off having him shoot your Colt. You might want him to go to Parris Island first, and get his exposure to the AR system there. That way, he won't have any habits that the PMIs will have to fix. most of the people that have no experience with a rifle leave the range as experts because they are a blank slate to absorb the instruction given.

[Reloadron]

When I enlisted in the Marine Corps in '69 I "thought" I knew how to shoot. The Corps promptly purged my slimy civilian mind of my ideas of how shooting should be done and taught me the fundamentals of shooting.

I would also love to hear from some current or recent Marines as to how it is done today. My rifle was the M14 and the rifle range was a full two week exercise in shooting of the then 12 weeks of boot camp. Week one was "snapping in" which involved dry fire at spots on barrels and contorting one's body to get into the different shooting positions. Week two was actual live fire at real targets which was a nice change from those barrels that resembled a Dalmatian. Week two leading up to qualification day when it was sink or swim.

While it is great the young Marine is getting exposure to marksmanship and shooting once the Marine Corps gets his young mind they will remove just about everything he knows and start with a blank sheet of white paper. Something I see as beneficial would be knowing all the parts as well as knowing how to dissemble and reassemble the rifle. Beginning to study TM 05538C-23&P/2 US Marine Corps Technical Manual Rifle 5.56-MM, M16A2 W/E. (http://www.combatsimulations.com/ar15/manuals/tm_05538c-23p2.pdf) That manual or something more current would likely help him out quite a bit. The more he knows when he enters MCRD San Diego or MCRD Parris Island the better off he is. Doesn't hurt to be able to do 3 mile runs either! :)

Again, would hope some current or recent Marines contribute to this thread as my Marine Corps was a along time ago.

Ron

[Sav .250]

The best is yet to come................:)

[friscolatchi]

I applaud you introducing the young man to firearms. His interest will probably get stronger once he is in the Corps.

However, you might want to hold off having him shoot your Colt. You might want him to go to Parris Island first, and get his exposure to the AR system there. That way, he won't have any habits that the PMIs will have to fix. most of the people that have no experience with a rifle leave the range as experts because they are a blank slate to absorb the instruction given.

You know, this was in the back of my mind. I'll heed your advice. I really wanted him to get the safety aspect, instead of the actual shooting technique, which I'm not qualified to do. I can understand the "blank slate" consideration. I'll leave it to the USMC to make him a marksman.
and I was careful not to teach himm"

[Stress_Test]

Doesn't hurt to be able to do 3 mile runs either! :)

Ron


+1

I had a co-worker whose son entered the Corps several years ago. If it were me, I'd spend the time between now and February working out and running, and if he's got access to an obstacle course, that'd probably be good too. And tell him to get some good rest about two weeks before he starts, cause he won't be getting much of that for a while! ;)

Good luck to him. It's one of those things I could NEVER do but I admire the people who do it.

[ATBackPackin]

USMC 95-00

If I could have had someone tell me the most important thing about boot camp, it would have been;

A) Get into better shape.
B) Take nothing personal, everything has a purpose.

They most certainly will teach him everything he needs to become a proficient marksman.

Good luck to him.

Semper Fidelis
Shawn

[Walkalong]

One of the things I am proud of is when my Nephew came back from his first assignment, he told me in boot camp when they first went to the firing line he was shooting well and the instructor asked where he learned to shoot. He said my Uncle. The instructor told him that he was lucky, as I had not taught him any bad habits. Yep, I got a big head over that one.

They most certainly will teach him everything he needs to become a proficient marksman.Yes they will. They like folks with no experience. Start from scratch.

[Al Thompson]

Strongly second the emphasis on being physically fit. IIRC, the USMC PT test is pull ups, three mile run and crunches. He needs to be able to pass that test when he gets there.

[22250Rem]

Physical fitness first. When you get to Parris Island or San Diego you better be in decent shape when you arrive or it's gonna be hell getting whipped into shape. I wouldn't even worry too much about marksmanship because the PMI's (Preliminary Marksmanship Instructors) are used to training guys who've never shot anything in their life. Many of these guys qualify very well on the range cause when you start with a blank slate and a USMC marksmanship instructor you generally wind up with a good marksman. I went through Parris Island in '69 and also thought I knew how to shoot before I got there. Found out I didn't know much at all but I did learn a lot. Was able to field strip and reassemble an M-14 BLINDFOLDED before I ever even fired one. I look back upon the rifle range phase as one of the easier parts of going through Parris Island, (at least for me). It was probably the first time in my life I ever fired a gun at something more than 50 yds. away. Hitting something at 500 meters with the 7.62 Nato round was mind blowing for a 19 yr. old. Don't know what they do in basic at the range these days but I'd bet the instruction is first class.

[moxie]

Amen on the fitness. The shooting will take care of itself, but he's not able to run well, his life will be miserable. Get him running and doing calisthenics and you'll be doing him a big favor. An AR orientation won't hurt, but I'd not go beyond that.

[rugerdude]

USMC Recon 2008-2 months ago

I made a bet with my PMI that I would be my platoon's high shooter. He promptly told me that it would more likely be [platoon doofus] because he had no bad habits.

I won the bet : )

Moral of that anecdote is this: sure, I may have had to do things differently than I was used to, but I kept an open mind about it. This allowed me to take advantage of my experience as far as trigger control and breathing and gave me an edge over others who had not shot before.

I should also state that most of my experience was with a .22 rifle on small targets at 25 yards. It was challenging and serious target practice for me, not going out back and making noise.

In any case, the instructors will give him the tools that he needs to succeed. Many people shoot expert having never fired a rifle before boot camp. You may find that those who shoot well also do many other things well. It isn't a born talent, it's willingness to learn and apply what is learned correctly.

[ATBackPackin]

IIRC the USMC now has two parts to the rifle qual. They have the KD course, Known Distance, and the FF course, Field Fire. Also if he is in the infantry he will have much more additional weapons training at the USMC School of Infantry. If he is not infantry he will still undergo more training at MCT, Marine Combat Training.

If he is from NJ he will go to Paris Island for Basic Training and then to Camp Geiger for MCT or Infantry School.

[friscolatchi]

Thanks to all so far. I emailed him the link to this post so he can get the perspective of people that have been there. I'll get him back up here in NYS when he is off from school (1st college semester) to work out with me, although he's currently training while going to school. When I was a senior in high school, 71, I was a competing alternate to West Point. I didn't have the physical training, nor the people willing to help me succeed. I would like to be able to help him in anyway I can.
PS. I also had my 78 yo FTL shoot the 22 also. He "really liked it", him not being a shooter. It was a rewarding day.

ATBackpacking - We're in the process of buying a little shack in the Dacks - Keane Valley.

[Stress_Test]

How's his fitness overall? Is he a runner at all? As in, does he run 3 miles at a time on a regular basis?

I don't know diddly about being a soldier, but I did run cross country in high school all four years, so I know a bit about running. (still run now, but at a much reduced level due to shin, knee, and other general "getting older" issues).

In running the worst/hardest part is getting started and getting over that initial hump. There's kind of a steep curve until you get that basic foundation of fitness. It's the same steep curve whether you're just starting out, or if you're starting back after a long layoff.

If he can start building that foundation NOW, he'll be much better off. He's got the rest of this month, Nov, Dec, and Jan to train, so he should be able to build up a pretty good base during that time. Better to put in the work and suffer now than to suffer a LOT in boot camp, as has been said.

On a side note, he should probably also mix in some long walks/hikes amid his running. I find that walking and running use different muscle groups, and even though I had experience with long distance running, a long walk would still make me sore in entirely new ways.

PS: Good, quality shoes are CRITICAL! Can't stress this enough. Don't be stupid like I was in high school and run in worn out, ragged, no cushion shoes. I'm pretty sure that's why I have leg issues now.

[8654Maine]

Priority on physical fitness: includes strength and endurance.

Have fun shooting w/ your nephew.

They'll teach 'em the right way, no matter what.

Didn't know squat about the Marine Corps or shooting when I stepped on the yellow footprints at MCRD PI in '85.

Made Expert Rifle. Honor grad, then Force Recon.

[Rob0321]

I did a lot of shooting prior to enlisting, however the marksmanship instruction at PI was top notch. I second everything they say about physical fitness being a high priority, it will make life a LOT easier for him. There is a lot more running then shooting at boot camp.

[postalnut25]

The instruction from the Corps made every other form of shooting easy, because they gave me solid fundamentals.

After 5 years I got out to become a normal person and go to college. Ended up in the National Guard, because of call backs for my MOS, and I wanted a little control over my career.

The Corps taught me well. Because of the foundation, the National Guard/Army rifle qual was kind of a joke. Also made my work rifle qualification extremely easy. My work instructtors helped me learn a few tips for running a rifle that different than the military, but that's because police work has different demands then combat. The solid foundation allowed me to concentrate on the other instruction being given, instead of having to spend time on trying to hit the target.

[Nushif]

On a side note, he should probably also mix in some long walks/hikes amid his running. I find that walking and running use different muscle groups, and even though I had experience with long distance running, a long walk would still make me sore in entirely new ways.

This. The thing that kicked my deriere the most during officer training (Army side) was the rucks. They will destroy you. To work up to that, you don't need any kind of special equipment, just a sturdy backpack with a bunch of books in it. Maybe a nice old laptop thrown in, too.

As for shooting I think a blank slate is a good thing. My Sergeants have plenty of problems training Hollywood out of people and a tougher time training Handguns Level III out of me on the M9 Range. Just get him familiar with safety to reduce the potential stress and let the guys do their work.

[Stress_Test]

I hope the kid isn't having second thoughts after reading all this! Guess it's too late now! :D

[gspn]

Good job!

If they haven't changed boot camp since I went in 1987 (Paris Island) then he's gonna be so tired of that dag blasted gun he'll want to throw it in a swamp.

He's gonna march with it, run with it, sleep with it, clean it, clean it, and clean it again...all this for a long time before he gets to shoot it.

Anyone remember "safety checks"? Seems like we'd to them at random times in the squad bay after we got back from being somewhere. We'd lock our weapons to our racks and then do a "safety check"...which involved running across the squad bay and checking the weapon of the guy you faced when "on line". If his weapon wasn't on safe then he was in a world of hurt. The punishment usually involved getting quarter-decked. ahh...the good old days. :D

[gspn]

Physical fitness first. When you get to Parris Island or San Diego you better be in decent shape when you arrive or it's gonna be hell getting whipped into shape. I wouldn't even worry too much about marksmanship because the PMI's (Preliminary Marksmanship Instructors) are used to training guys who've never shot anything in their life. Many of these guys qualify very well on the range cause when you start with a blank slate and a USMC marksmanship instructor you generally wind up with a good marksman. I went through Parris Island in '69 and also thought I knew how to shoot before I got there. Found out I didn't know much at all but I did learn a lot. Was able to field strip and reassemble an M-14 BLINDFOLDED before I ever even fired one. I look back upon the rifle range phase as one of the easier parts of going through Parris Island, (at least for me). It was probably the first time in my life I ever fired a gun at something more than 50 yds. away. Hitting something at 500 meters with the 7.62 Nato round was mind blowing for a 19 yr. old. Don't know what they do in basic at the range these days but I'd bet the instruction is first class.
Yeah...make sure he can absolutely smoke the 3-mile run. He's gonna have his hands full to begin with...the last thing he needs is to worry about failing stuff because he can't run.

Run...run...then run more. I've been through both boot camp and OCS...and endurance is a big part of both. Boot camp shocked me...I was really out of shape. But for OCS I was in great shape...and I still wish I had run more to prepare.

[jim goose]

Never a marine, but ditto on the PT. He does not want to injure himself now or in boot camp. If he is not in shape now, start with walking and hiking and then build up to a decent 5 k run. Add in pushups, pullups and crunches and a healthy diet. This will also send him in with a confidence and a good state of mind. Best thing he can do for himself.

[mstreddy]

USMC 82-86, USMCR 86-88, USAFR 88-Present... just last month Sept 24th marked 30 years in uniform... imagine that...

As many have posted already, I'll add the physical fitness is crucial. As well as the mental fitness. Someone above already mentioned,
B) Take nothing personal, everything has a purpose.

And that is very good advice. The Drill Instructors are there to shape, mold, train and teach the recruits. Their methods may seem harsh to an outsider, but they do work and have for many decades.
To be a Marine, first, you have to Want to be a Marine --- it's that simple really -- but having the physical fortitude to run many miles, do the pushups, pullups, leg lifts, and my personal favorite - mountain climbers... makes boot camp a lot easier. Knowing what to expect helps a lot. When I enlisted, I was in the delayed entry program for nearly a year while waiting for my boot camp date and the area recruiters would bring us in once or twice a month for some training sessions on what to expect in boot camp. They included PT, some light drill, and some general info. I think that it really helped me when I got off the bus onto the yellow footprints at OhDarkThirty in Parris Island. What also helped me was that I was a high school cross country runner back then as well. So, the runs were never an issue.
So, OP, check with your nephew and see if his recruiter has prepped him for any of this. I'd also recommend one of those show they did recently on one of the cable networks on the making of Marines. Some added camera drama, but mostly very good from what I remember.

As to the shooting, yeah, they will most definitely teach him well. But, any time you spend with him shooting should be for fun and firearms familiarity, so don't sweat that. Try to instill good habits and safety and the Corps will take it from there.

Just my opinion, of course.
Eddy