Looking for a new carbine... Need suggestions


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Il Duca
October 7, 2012, 04:48 PM
For the last couple years I have been buying old bolt guns and have had little interest in modern autoloaders. Well, now it's time for a new home defense carbine. Looking for something light and handy, not set on caliber. It would also be my go-to evac rifle in case of disaster, etc. My home defense has been the 12ga but I'm looking for something new.

What I want:
-Light
-Handy
-Readily available ammo
-Compact
-Budget is $600 or less

I'll likely mount a small holo sight on it.

Rifles I do NOT want:
-AR
-Hi Point Carbine
-SKS
-M1 Carbine

I have looked long and hard at the Keltec SU-16CA. It's light, handy, stores mags in the stock and would be perfect for a holo sight. Also uses AR mags. Looking for suggestions to see if I left anything out that I should consider. Thought about an AK, but not sure if I want to go that route or not.

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Jericho_223
October 7, 2012, 04:58 PM
I was in the same boat last summer, with a similar budget. I was also considering the SU-16, but I ended up going for a Saiga in .223 instead. I'm glad I did. The rifle is durable, fairly accurate, and I have no doubt that the rifle will serve me well should the need arise. I've found it to be fairly accurate, and I've heard (but haven't been able to confirm through experience) that the .223 version is a bit more accurate than the 7.62x39.

One big concern for me, reliability and such aside, was ammo availability. Where I live, virtually everybody sells .223, so I like that I can get ammo pretty much everywhere. This rifle eats everything I've thrown at it.

A lot of people will instantly tell you that for a little more you can do a conversion on it to make it more like an AK, but I haven't done it and, while I see how it could be useful, I don't see it as being *necessary* at all. The rifle is fine in its factory condition. They can still be had for under $400, so you'll have plenty left over for ammo and other goodies!

http://centerfiresystems.com/SAI-223.aspx

Hope this helps!

mberoose
October 7, 2012, 05:02 PM
Beretta CX4 Storm

Il Duca
October 7, 2012, 05:09 PM
I thought about a Saiga but just wasn't impressed with the ones I handled, of course that was a few years ago. Maybe I'll try to find one locally I can finger up. Keep the suggestions coming!

Il Duca
October 7, 2012, 05:10 PM
Beretta CX4 Storm

Blows my budget out of the water. Also not sure if I want a pistol cal carbine.

mberoose
October 7, 2012, 05:20 PM
Blows my budget out of the water. Also not sure if I want a pistol cal carbine.

If new, yes. If used, no.

Options get limited outside of PCCs for small, handy and lightweight.

highpower
October 7, 2012, 05:20 PM
If you want a rifle with a short barrel that shoots a reasonably powerful round get an AK. Not all that light, but as tough and reliable as you can get. Ammo is still fairly cheap so you can afford to shoot it enough to become proficient with it.


http://highpower.smugmug.com/Firearms/AK/i-TNWBg72/0/XL/IMG0718-XL.jpg

Jericho_223
October 7, 2012, 05:25 PM
I thought about a Saiga but just wasn't impressed with the ones I handled, of course that was a few years ago.

Oh yeah it's definitely not going to win any awards for ergonomics! Shoot, it wouldn't even place! But it is a durable, reliable, functional rifle.

I also have a CX4. It's very nice. Ergonomic, accurate, and powerful. Very light and compact, that's my go to HD rifle. But yes, they're also a bit more expensive.

jim243
October 7, 2012, 05:26 PM
Rifles I do NOT want:
-AR
-Hi Point Carbine
-SKS
-M1 Carbine


Only one I am aware of in your price range.

Jim


http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-su-16c-sub-16c-223-carbine-folder-su16c-640832000849.aspx

Il Duca
October 7, 2012, 05:33 PM
jim243- The model I've been looking at is the CA, which is similar to that one except it holds mags in the stock and does not have a threaded barrel. I like it.

Also thought about an AK but would prefer one of the underfolder models. Are the current production ones any good? I see them in shops around $500, not sure who makes them, Century maybe?

ECVMatt
October 7, 2012, 10:30 PM
another vote for the Saiga. I have one that I have banged all over the deserts and mountains of CA and it works great!

henschman
October 7, 2012, 10:43 PM
For home defense you want a light weight, high velocity round so it will destabilize quickly, meaning it will have a low tendency to penetrate walls yet will do lots of damage in flesh. If you don't want an AR, the next best thing in your price range would probably be an AK. I would get a Saiga in 5.45x39 and convert it back to AK configuration.

greyling22
October 7, 2012, 11:14 PM
sub 2000?

mini14 in a folding stock?

Telekinesis
October 7, 2012, 11:31 PM
I have a Vector AK underfolder that has been great. I've put over 2,000 rounds through it without malfunction and it is accurate enough to be useful. I've routinely hit 5x5" blocks of concrete at 30-50 yards while moving, and have shot sub 2" groups from a bench.

If you're going with an AK and are thinking of using it for more of a practical/defense rifle, I would definitely look into XS Big Dot sights. I have them on my AK and they are much quicker and easier to use than the standard notch and post.

Warp
October 7, 2012, 11:35 PM
I have a Vector AK underfolder that has been great. I've put over 2,000 rounds through it without malfunction and it is accurate enough to be useful. I've routinely hit 5x5" blocks of concrete at 30-50 yards while shooting off hand.

If you're going with an AK and are thinking of using it for more of a practical/defense rifle, I would definitely look into XS Big Dot sights. I have them on my AK and they are much quicker and easier to use than the standard notch and post.

I'm not sure that 5"x5" blocks at 30-50 yards, with a rifle, qualifies as a demonstration of accuracy.

RPRNY
October 7, 2012, 11:55 PM
Ruger 44 Mag carbine or Deerfield?

Telekinesis
October 7, 2012, 11:56 PM
When firing rapidly while moving, I think being able to hit a 5x5" block at 50 yards every time is decent accuracy. (I'm not saying that the 5" is the limiting factor, just that I had several pieces of 5" blocks sitting around and decided to shoot them.) If you want, I'll amend it to say I've gotten sub 2" groups at 100 yards from a bench (what I would call pretty accurate for an AK). I just thought something practically oriented would be more beneficial to the OP seeing as he wants to use the gun for defense.

Il Duca
October 8, 2012, 07:35 PM
Well I went out shopping with my brother today. We looked at lots of rifles. Saigas, AK's, lots of stuff. Found a deal I couldn't pass up. An AK underfolder. Has a bunch of stuff on it. Has a UTG PRO quad rail forend, a KREBS style mag release, a Bushnell red dot, a very nice molded pistol grip and a nice recoil pad. They had it marked $549 (the underfolders go $629-ish here) and it came with 2 30 rounders and a really nice soft case. I got'em to knock off a little bit. Looks very lightly used. The guy who rang me up kept joking that the price must be a mistake, that it should've been a good bit more. I agree. It's a Century build.

My brother also grabbed an AK. A Hungarian AMD-65.

I'll get pics up in a while.

Il Duca
October 8, 2012, 09:55 PM
Well, here she is:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f258/bigfatts/002-12.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f258/bigfatts/001-12.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f258/bigfatts/004-13.jpg

It's a little busy. I already took off the folding fore grip that kept the stock from folding properly. I might lose the mount where the red dot is currently and just put it on top of the forend. Might eventually go with a different sight, not sure what. But for now, I think I did pretty good.

ParChaser
October 10, 2012, 02:59 AM
AMD65 all the way. $439 at Centerfire

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