[ATLDave]

After a few thousand rounds through my EAA Witness Elite Match 10mm, I got a pair of frame cracks - one near the mag release (which is often deemed harmless, and anticipated/avoided by a relief cut on some models) and one at the very base of the grip on one side of the magwell. I returned it to EAA per their instructions.

Without any questioning about the number of rounds sent through the gun, what kind of ammo I was shooting (nothing especially hot, but it IS a 10mm), how the gun had been cared for, where my reciept was, when I bought it, etc., they sent me a replacement gun. The whole thing. Had to go via FFL, of course.

For a company that has developed a reputation for bad customer service, I thought this was pretty darn good. I did have to pay shipping to them, but didn't have to pay shipment to me/FFL. I didn't have to haggle or quibble. Their gun developed a fault, and they replaced it. That's how it should work, of course, but I think it's further evidence that EAA may really have turned over a new leaf on their customer service and warranty philosophy.

[wbwanzer]

Glad to hear that and glad that they took care of you. I've got two Witnesses that I love with no issues so far.

[wally]

I did have to pay shipping to them

That is what makes it bad customer service! S&W and the good ones pay the freight both ways, and it costs them a lot less to do so than it costs you (unless you have an FFL) to send it one way.

What really PO'd me about my Witness 10mm cracked slide is they insisted I return the whole gun instead of just the upper. The upper is not a gun and just parts and would have been ~1/10th the shipping cost.

Since the EAA Witness has interchangeable uppers by design it was ridiculous of them to force me to return the entire pistol.

All they did was out my original barrel in a new slide on my original frame proving my point!

[oldandslow]

dave, 10/9/12

Glad EAA customer service came through for you. I'd be even happier if they would replace my two cracked .45's with frame and slide cracks. I paid shipping both ways to and from EAA and they refused to repair or replace them.

best wishes- oldandslow

[intercooler]

That's good to hear. Yea the mag release cracks alarmed me but after calling them and talking to Henning plus comparison to my Hunter they just failed to put the relief cuts on the Match. Now the grip area is a new one to me. Hmmm

Glad they took care of it. Supposedly they are putting a new website up but getting any info about stuff out of them is impossible. How poor they run things is what has kept prices down. If their office matched the firearms we would pay more. Be thankful I guess! LOL

[Jaymo]

wally, perhaps they needed to fit the new slide to your frame? Dunno.
I've ordered airgun seals from them and didn't have any problem.

Do other calibers have the frame/slide cracking problems, or is it just the 10mm?

[Ash]

EAA does no different than many other companies, including SIG & Glock. Glock states "Customer is responsible for inbound shipping charges." Any different than EAA? Nope.

http://us.glock.com/documents/GLOCK%20Warranty.pdf

https://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/WarrantyInformation.aspx

[MachIVshooter]

EAA does no different than many other companies, including SIG & Glock. Glock states "Customer is responsible for inbound shipping charges." Any different than EAA? Nope.

This.

Some manufacturers will, at their discretion, provide a shipping label. Most do not. Some will do things to defray that cost, though (extra mags, etc.).

It's ~$20 to have your FFL flat rate ship a handgun for you. Not a big deal.

[atblis]

Stuff cracking on EAA Witnesses is nothing new. It's been happening for decades. Honestly, it sounds like damage control to me. They know this is a serious defect that they won't be able to BS away, and will hurt sales. A frame cracking in multiple spots is not normal (even for EAA). Otherwise I suspect you would have received the usual EAA treatment.

(which is often deemed harmless, and anticipated/avoided by a relief cut on some models)
On the Delta Elite perhaps. IIRC, it's the slide stop cutout and not the magazine release that cracks. Witnesses usually crack the slide in the ejection window.

For a company that has developed a reputation for bad customer service, I thought this was pretty darn good. I did have to pay shipping to them, but didn't have to pay shipment to me/FFL. I didn't have to haggle or quibble. Their gun developed a fault, and they replaced it. That's how it should work, of course, but I think it's further evidence that EAA may really have turned over a new leaf on their customer service and warranty philosophy.
They've "turned over a new leaf" a few times over the years, and then eventually revert. EAA's issues come from the top down. Until somebody else starts importing Tanfoglios, expect nothing to change.

Whether a company pays for shipping or not and whether this "good" or "bad" CS is determined by what other companies do. For instance, Leupold CS is sub-par IMO because I have to pay return shipping on a Mark 4 that is defective. Vortex sent me a shipping label and a replacement scope immediately no questions asked. Minox did the same. S&W sent me a shipping label no questions asked.

[MachIVshooter]

On the Delta Elite perhaps. IIRC, it's the slide stop cutout and not the magazine release that cracks. Witnesses usually crack the slide in the ejection window.

You do not remember correctly. It is aft of the magazine release, and the elite series have a machine cut there from factory.

It's clear that you have an axe to grind about these guns, but the fact is Tanfoglio makes good guns that are used by casual shooters and professionals all over the world. I own 3 at present, and haven't had a lick of trouble with any of them.

[floydster]

I have a Witness Match in 38 Super and 45 ACP. Each have over 15,000 rounds down range with not one prob, they are awesome guns.
Smokeyloads

[ATLDave]

FWIW, the crack at the base of the grip came on a very thin piece of metal that was noticeably thinner than the opposite side. I suspect it was out of spec.

Could the CS have been better? Sure. Return shipping label would have been nice. They could have thrown in some extras with the new gun, too. But, again, compared to the horrible rep they have (earned the hard way, I'm sure), I was relatively pleased.

The fact that the gun was in 10mm, a cartridge that is famous for battering autoloaders to death, also matters, IMO. If it was a 9mm or .45 or something, then my expectations would be higher.

[AnthonyRSS]

Hmmm. I've been semi looking for a Elite Match in .45 or a 10mm Hunter. Not sure I wanna deal with frame cracks or customer service.

[Okiegunner]

Just me personally, OK?

I own an EAA import. For the past few years (I have had 0, zero, problems with my pistol). I have had some concerns about EAA CS.

All in all, for the past year or so (maybe a little longer), I have heard really positive things about EAA CS.

Maybe they have started to pay attention and listen to their buyers??

[Lucifer_Sam]

Sounds like pretty good CS to me. While I'd prefer they sent out a shipping label, not sending one isnt even in the neighborhood of a deal breaker. The stuff they used to do, thats a different story.

Dave, did you respring the witness, or were you using the factory springs? I'm planning to get a 10mm upper at some point and want to avoid the problem you had. I think this is the first time I've seen a match elite cracking, its usually the cheaper witnesses.

[intercooler]

What's the chances he got pictures of the crack before sending it off?

[Pilot]

I suspect 10MM is a little too much for the Witness frames. If I were to get one, it would be 9MM.

[intercooler]

The witness frames handle them just fine.

[ATLDave]

Dave, did you respring the witness, or were you using the factory springs? I'm planning to get a 10mm upper at some point and want to avoid the problem you had. I think this is the first time I've seen a match elite cracking, its usually the cheaper witnesses.

Yep, re-sprung with 20lb or 18lb Wolff springs, depending on the load being shot.

FWIW, when I got the new pistol, the metal at the base of the grip seemed a little thicker. I didn't caliper the old one (should have), but I suspect it was out-of-spec thin.

[ATLDave]

What's the chances he got pictures of the crack before sending it off?

Really, really good. ;)

[ATLDave]

I suspect 10MM is a little too much for the Witness frames. If I were to get one, it would be 9MM.

I don't think that was really the issue. The crack* was at the very base of the grip. If it were a general frame-sturdiness issue, there are a lot of other places that take a much harder beating. I suspect that the single thin strip of metal that bridges the frontstrap and backstrap of the grip at the bottom was out-of-spec thin and finally gave up.

To the extent anyone cares, the crack was under the grip and not noticed until I got home and cleaned the gun. It shot great throughout its final shooting session.

* As noted, there was also a crack at the mag release, but this is reportedly a non-issue and anticipated by a relief cut on some Witness models.

[Japle]

I’ve been reading (and contributing to) threads about EAA’s horrible CS for years. One thing I find interesting is, EAA never responds. I posted about some CS problems I was having with S&W last December and they responded quickly. People have complained about Ruger and Taurus and Glock and gotten responses that they posted. Those companies care what their customers think. They don’t like bad reviews.

I find it very hard to believe that EAA isn’t aware of threads bashing their CS, yet they never post anything. An occasional post telling us they’re working to improve CS or have changed their CS policy would go a long way toward improving their image.

It’s good to hear that the OP had good service. I hope it’s a trend. But I wouldn’t put money on it.

[Ash]

Just remember, their return policy is no different from SIG or Glock.

I sent a Witness back to them a decade and a half ago and it was repaired and returned quickly. The guy was gruff on the phone, but the actual service was just fine.

[wally]

wally, perhaps they needed to fit the new slide to your frame? Dunno.

Nope, the interchangeable uppers of the standard Witness pistols were a selling point.

The Elite Match and higher grades I understand could need fitting, but they just dropped a new slide onto my frame and inserted my original barrel -- I could tell because it had a factory defect (blemish) just below the caliber engraving.

[intercooler]

I don't really think they care sadly. Like I said if someone did the right thing here the guns would be more expensive and sales up. Funny