October 8, 2012, 11:16 PM
So i have a new Remington 700 ADL in 30-06 and was looking forward to reloading for it and working up loads as i think i have gotten everything i can out of the old 8mm mauser sporter.
My problem is the lands seem so far away that the bullet would be bearly in the case. Ive read that remington is known for having "deep throats" so what are you guys doing (those that still have the deep throat factory barrel)?
I was hoping to work around the .02-.04 off the lands range but that puts me less than "one caliber" in the neck. Ive also read no less than 1/2 caliber in the neck though ive seen the one caliber rule more. What do yall do?
Im a firm believer in the lee factory crimp die for the old mauser as i have seen the groups tighten all the way up to but just before max crimp(when pedals touch, i leave just the slightest gap). My father has done the same test in his 308 and seen the opposite so i feel it depends on the gun.
So my thought is that if i crimp why have so much bullet in the neck? I would think neck tension on bullet would still be consistent.
Im working with sierra 180 and 200 gamekings.
October 9, 2012, 05:46 AM
For the several rifles in '06 I load for I usually never go above the 165's with my bullet weights, so this may or may not help in your case.
That said, I have found that 3.250" OAL works very well in mine. They are also all 03A3's a couple have original but sporterized equipment on them and another which is simply the barreled action restocked.
With the 150 and 165gr loads I usually use Hod. or IMR-4350, and try to keep velocities in the 2800fps range. These type loads will usually deliver stellar accuracy out to further than I have business shooting them. This same type load has also shot VERY well in several Remington BDL and ADL rifles over the years, which is another reason I sort of stuck with it.
Personally if I were using your components, I would simply go about the load keeping the OAL to a magazine lenght and not be overly worried about being up tight with the lands. There is more to accuracy than having the bullets seated out to touch them. Case in point, my good friend loads his 300 RUM bullets .125" off the lands, however the load will easily, and consistently, do 1.5" at 300yds on a good day and even better on a great day.
So I would say to give standard lengths a try first, and if your not finding any accuracy then start playing with depths. I would also not be using any crimp what so ever on the bullets. To me, I have simply never seen the need with standard loads for any of my bolt action rifles. If I were shooting an auto loader or possibly a pump, I "might" look at crimping, but even then I would have to see first hand that the bullets were actually being moved during chambering or while under recoil in the mag.
Good luck, hope you find a great load.
October 9, 2012, 06:21 AM
More important than being out to the lands is having enough bullet in the case for a tight grip. Pay no attention to seating the bullet out that far.
October 9, 2012, 07:23 AM
Minimum 1-bore diameter of bullet bearing surface in the case neck.
With a Sierra 150gr FLAT BASE "ProHunter", over 52.0gr of IMR4064
OR; Sierra 165gr (your choice) over 56.0gr of IMR4350 you should get good accuracy from you Mod-700.
From over a dozen .30/06's I shot/played with the above loads are usually "ringers" for accuracy...
Don't be too concerned about the length of the Rem. M700 throat. I've got a Weatherby Vanguard in .257wby that has a .378" "free-bore" throat. It with a "good" bullet will shoot near 1/2moa.....
Concentricity of the bullet to axis of cartridge is more important than bullet jump to the grooves if throat is cut to correct diameter.... Rem M700 ususally are...
October 9, 2012, 07:55 AM
Seat so you have at least .308 into the case, the round fits the mag and forget the lands. Seating long is not always the most accurate. Here is a test done by Barnes. THey found that most rifles have more than one OAL sweet spot. One up close and another way far away.
Scroll down to "From the Lab"
October 9, 2012, 10:59 AM
The idea of seating 'a caliber deep' comes from black powder days when bullets were large and cases were thin, they needed to be deep to prevent dislodging bullets carried in pockets. That no longer applies, but it sounds so 'good' that it just won't die. It should, a lot of cases have necks shorter than the caliber and have had for about a hundred years!
Most factory sporter rifles shoot great from 20 thou off the lands to as much as five times that much.