Rifled choke tubes


PDA






AJumbo
October 8, 2012, 11:35 PM
How many here have used them?

Were you satisfied with the accuracy?

How many loads did you try?

Did you have your best results with Brenneke, Foster, or sabot-style slugs?

Bear in mind that where I live, slugs for deer are kind of a "You wanna use WHAT?" proposition, and I won't be buying a fully-rifled barrel. I am specifically interested in how choke tubes perform on this role. Thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "Rifled choke tubes" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
tacxted
October 9, 2012, 09:38 AM
How many here have used them?
i have a remington extended choke tube for my 870
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/654191/remington-choke-tube-remington-rem-choke-12-gauge-extended-rifled

Were you satisfied with the accuracy?
yes. i was able to get a fist sized group at 60 yards or so with winchester super X 2 3/4" with irons. i bet i can do better with more practice and adjusting my irons or adding a scope.

How many loads did you try?
ive used remington sluggers and winchester super x. i picked up a box of brenneke black magic magnums that i need to test and a box of some federals

Did you have your best results with Brenneke, Foster, or sabot-style slugs?
ive only used foster slugs so far.

i will be using this setup to hunt deer this season. i hunt in some thick woods, the only long shots are under the power lines or over potato fields, most hunters use 30-06 for thoes long shots. im convinced i wont get a chance to shoot at a deer past 100 yards and that most of my shots on deer will be taken around 50 yards or less.

Kingcreek
October 9, 2012, 10:20 AM
I live in a state with no rifle deer season, shotgun, muzzleloader, or handgun only.
My slug gun is an early 870 express with rifle sights. Traded a smooth bore with fixed choke for one with threads and my groups are only slightly better if any with the threaded choke tube. My best groups are with Remington sluggers and federal tru ball. I can shoot 3-4" at 75 yards, 6-8" 3 shot groups at 100. Killed a nice buck at 112 yards (lazer ranged) by holding 4 inches over his back. When you find a slug that's happy with your rig, buy enough to practice plenty.

XTrooper
October 9, 2012, 10:23 AM
Foster slugs are designed to be fired from traditional, smooth bore, shotgun barrels. This is why the slug itself is "rifled." You can shoot Foster slugs from a rifled shotgun barrel, but you're firing a rifled projectile down a barrel with its own rifling. This practice won't affect accuracy, but it's still not a good idea because leading of the rifled barrel (or rifled choke tube) will occur over time.

I would suggest using Foster slugs in smooth bore barrels, sabot slugs in rifled barrels, and never the twain to meet. This is what they were each designed for.

BTW, if you keep your shots to within 60 yards or so, Foster slugs shot from a regular smooth bore shotgun barrel equipped with decent sights will give you more than adequate accuracy for deer hunting and this is from 18 1/2" barreled shotguns with cylinder or improved cylinder chokes.

Boomie
October 9, 2012, 10:47 AM
I tried it on my 870 with a sidesaddle scope shooting Buckhammer ammo. I was getting maybe 12" groups at 120 yards and 3" groups at 50 yards.

I used that for a while before I got a Savage 220.

Kingcreek
October 9, 2012, 12:05 PM
XTrooper, he's asking about rifled choke tube as opposed to fully rifled barrel. The rifled choke tube is not enough to stabilize sabots in my experience but it might help impart some small amount of spin and a small amount of improvement in accuracy with slugs over the conventional smooth bore.

XTrooper
October 9, 2012, 12:40 PM
XTrooper, he's asking about rifled choke tube as opposed to fully rifled barrel. The rifled choke tube is not enough to stabilize sabots in my experience but it might help impart some small amount of spin and a small amount of improvement in accuracy with slugs over the conventional smooth bore.
Gotcha and I'm thinking the same thing, i.e., that the 2"-3" length of rifled choke won't improve accuracy much though I've never spent the money on one to find out for certain.

Bobmar
October 9, 2012, 02:18 PM
I.ve been using Brenneke slugs in a Rifled choke tube Beretta for many years, with many deer killed. Shot deer last year at 125 yds. thru both shoulders and slug under skin on far side.3 in.groups at 100 yd. Just my experience and would not see anything better with fully rifled. Bob

Bushpilot
October 9, 2012, 05:04 PM
Foster slugs in smooth bore barrels, sabot slugs in rifled barrels

I think XTrooper is still right, Fosters for smooth bore and Sabots for rifled barrels and tubes...

Kingcreek
October 9, 2012, 05:31 PM
Bushpilot, do you say that because you've tried it? Or is that your guess?
The OP asked if anyone had tried it. I have and I posted based on my experience.

rcmodel
October 9, 2012, 05:39 PM
The rifling on Forster slugs doesn't impart any spin to the slug.
The bow shock wave over the nose of the slug insures there can be no laminar air flow touching the "rifled" vanes to "spin" them untill they slow below supersonic speed at extended ranges. And by then, it's too late for spin to add any accuracy anyway.

They fly point first because they are hollow and heavier in front then the rear.
Just like a badminton shuttlecock.

The vanes on a Forster slug are there to give excess lead a place to go if the slug needs to swage down through a tight choke.

Nothing more.

rc

Bushpilot
October 9, 2012, 06:27 PM
Kingcreek, My use of the word “think” instead of “know” was merely my attempt at not coming off sounding like a know it all…. If you’re questioning what I base my “opinion” on I’ll tell you… I have fired every combination of shotgun slug through every type of barrel that you can think of.... I used to live in a shotgun state. I work part-time in a shop that installs aftermarket choke tubes in standard choke barrels. Foster type slug diameter varies some what between brands (Winchester usually being the largest) but all mic at or less than typical full choke bore diameter so that they can be safely fired through any choke. Firing Foster slugs through a rifled barrel or tube is pointless as their diameter is sub bore diameter…. Rifled barrels and tubes are for Sabots....

Kingcreek
October 9, 2012, 06:56 PM
Bush pilot, my apologies. I have only experienced poor accuracy firing sabots through a rifled choke tube, and marginal, if any improvement in accuracy firing Forster slugs through the rifled choke tube vs a smooth bore. But I will also acknowledge your experience and respect your opinion.

tacxted
October 9, 2012, 07:38 PM
Firing Foster slugs through a rifled barrel or tube is pointless as their diameter is sub bore diameter….

bushpilot, the winchester super x that i dug out of the dirt had distinct rifling marks on it. proof that it did infact engauge the rifling in the choke barrel. this disproves your comment.

XTrooper
October 9, 2012, 07:39 PM
For the record, I said "I'm thinking" because what came after was pure conjecture on my part and I don't claim it to be anything else. :D

However, I stand by my statement that Foster slugs were designed to be shot from smooth bore barrels and sabot slugs from rifled barrels. This is documented fact.

tacxted
October 9, 2012, 07:42 PM
leading of the rifled barrel (or rifled choke tube) will occur over time.

Xtrooper, your right my choke tube had much leading in it that i had to remove.

jlineman
October 9, 2012, 08:44 PM
I dont want to start a brand war, but I always had good luck with lightfield slugs. I think I have tried every slug made and always go back to them. Good luck.

Bushpilot
October 9, 2012, 09:42 PM
winchester super x that i dug out of the dirt had distinct rifling marks on it. proof that it did infact engauge the rifling in the choke barrel. this disproves your comment.

tacxted, No, it doesn't... Rifling "marks" don't contribute to accuracy. Just because the slug came in contact with the tube and it made a mark on it doesn't mean that it's long axis was properly aligned with the bore or that it shot better.... Any cast bullet shooter can tell ya that a bullets outside diameter has to closely match the groove diameter of the barrel to get any decent accuracy....

XTrooper
October 10, 2012, 07:56 AM
Bushpilot is right on the money here. The Foster slug provides improved accuracy, not because its sides are rifled, but because its nose heavy design acts to stabilize it in flight. Personally, I love Foster slugs, but I would switch to a sabot slug for any shots beyond ~60 yards or use a rifle. :)

tacxted
October 10, 2012, 02:46 PM
Just because the slug came in contact with the tube and it made a mark on it doesn't mean that it's long axis was properly aligned with the bore or that it shot better....any cast bullet shooter can tell ya that a bullets outside diameter has to closely match the groove diameter of the barrel to get any decent accuracy....

ill have to ask one because i have no idea what your talking about. i dont have a great understanding of accuracy beyond, the bullet spins because of rifling. i assumed the marks ment the bullet did spin so in my mind... spin=better accuracy.

Bushpilot
October 10, 2012, 09:35 PM
tacxted, there are 2 different marks that you could see on your fired slug. One are the rifling marks that the rifled barrel or tube "engraves" on the slug when it passes through the barrel. The other are the marks that are made on the slug when it's cast that look like rifling or "vanes" on the sides of the slug. The function of these varies depending on who you ask. Some say they were just put they for marketing purposes, giving the impression of rifling or vanes that are supposed to impart a spin on the slug or the explanation that rcmodel suggested. The only thing that everyone agrees on is that they pretty much do nothing for accuracy. So, if what you saw on the slug you fired was the marks that the slug had on them from the factory, then they meant nothing. If they are marks from the rifling in your tube then the tube may have spun the slug but if the slug doesn't have a reasonably tight fit in the tube it still wont impart greater accuracy to the slug, spin or not... Does this makes sense?

tacxted
October 11, 2012, 10:58 AM
yes, thanks for the explaintion bushpilot. i want to test the fit so i could cut open one of my slugs and see.

the hollow base of a foster slug will open to fit the inside of the barrel after firing becasue of the pressure forces right? so even if it is slightly smaller or barley snug the pressure should press fit the slug to the size of my barrel? is this wrong?

Jeff F
October 11, 2012, 12:33 PM
I have tested the accuracy of an extended rifled choke tube in my 870 with both foster slugs and sabot slugs. Foster slugs out of the extended rifled tube are more accurate then when shot with a cylinder, improved cylinder or modified choke tube in my shotgun.

The extended rifled choke tube make sabot slugs usable, accuracy was fair, but they really shine in a fully rifled barrel.

As far as leading with the foster slugs, I get a little but the rifling in only a couple inches long and its pretty easy to clean. I have not shot foster slugs from a fully rifled barrel, I think the leading would be a problem as I get a plastic buildup with sabot slugs that can be tough to get out.

Funny thing I have noticed with my shotgun is with regular choke tubes I get better accuracy with foster slugs out of a modified tube then I do with a Cyl or I/C tube, go figure.

AI&P Tactical
October 11, 2012, 05:38 PM
Jeff - Modified is the best slug choke because it stablizes the slug better. I refer to fixed chokes as I don't like the idea of shooting slugs through tubes.

Bushpilot
October 13, 2012, 11:05 AM
tacxted, the last time I cut open a number of Foster slugs and measured them the Remingtons were the smallest the Federals were in the middle and the Winchesters were the largest. We got the best accuracy with the Fosters slugs using an I/C tube and the Winchester brand Foster slugs. I don't really know how much, if any, the base of a foster slug expands when fired like the base of a Minie' ball does......

JimStC
October 25, 2012, 01:08 PM
tag

JimStC
October 25, 2012, 03:20 PM
Perhaps this is off topic, but let me share some data from today.
Winchester Super X2, 22" barrel, smooth bore, no choke.
From 40 yards, table, sandbag:

1. Remington Buckhammer, 1.25 oz lead slug, 1550 fps. Two groups of two at 2.75"

2.Remington Slugger rifled slugs, 1 oz, 1560 fps. One group of two at 3.25" and one group at 2". (hmmm)

3.Federal Vita-Shok, .75 oz Barnes Expander HP Slug, Sabot, I don't have the fps velocity. One group at 1.75" and one group at 2.75". Each time one slug was turning over and one was a clean hole. (What the ??)

I hope the relevancy of this data is that the groups are getting the job done without a rifled choke. Heck the rifled slugs and sabot groups were as good or better than the non rifled slugs
I did order a Carlson's rifled choke and will share the data after some testing.

Edit to add: Adjustable ghost sights.
Jim

Flyrodder
October 25, 2012, 05:01 PM
Not meaning to hijack the thread but something I noticed when shooting foster slugs and sabots through my 1187, 12ga. smooth bore with a rifled choke tube installed was the direction of rotation of the rifling in the choke tube upon firing caused the choke tube to tighten to the point I was concerned if it was going to come out when I started to remove it. It finally started unscrewing but I was sweating it.
Flyrodder

I have heard Remington has stopped manufacturing the Buckhammers. Buckhammers shot the best of any in my 20ga. rifled barrel and I hated to hear they have stopped making them.

JimStC
November 5, 2012, 05:22 PM
Updated data with a Carlson rifled choke. Same gun and same shooting conditions.
1. Remington Buckhammer, 1.25 oz lead slug, 1550 fps. 2.25" group (better by .5") This is not a rifled slug.
2. Remington Slugger rifled slugs, 1 oz, 1560 fps. 1.5" group (Big improvement)
3. Federal Vita-Shok, .75 oz Barnes Expander HP Slug, Sabot, I don't have the fps velocity. 2.5" group with a third shot flyer. Right in the middle of my last data.

Conclusion: The Sluggers shot the best with a group better by .5" to 1.75" than the previous groups. The Buckhammers improved by .5". The Federal Vita-Shok was a push, slightly to a bigger group. 2.5" vs 1.75" and 2.75"
I will be using the rifled choke when deer gun season starts on 11/17.

Next I am testing my Rem 1187 smooth bore unchoked and rifled choke. Data to follow.

Jim

jlineman
November 5, 2012, 07:00 PM
Foster slugs will work in a rifled choke tube or barrel until they get full of lead. Buckhammers will do the same thing because of the lack of the sabot and they expand when fired to engage the rifling. I thing buckhammers are getting hard to find because part of there design came from a lightfield pat.

Jason_W
November 5, 2012, 08:08 PM
Brenneke KOs at 50 yards. The left target is with the rifled tube in my Baikal MP 94
http://www.guns.com/images/editor/rifled-5.jpg

Jason_W
November 5, 2012, 08:12 PM
3" Remington Sluggers at 50 yards, left target is with the rifled tube

http://www.guns.com/images/editor/rifled-7.jpg

And the sluggers at 100 yards
http://www.guns.com/images/editor/rifled-8.jpg

There was a persistent left to right crosswind that day.

It seems that the rifled tube does improve accuracy, but whether or not the improvement is enough to justify the $50 or so cost of the tube is debatable.

If you enjoyed reading about "Rifled choke tubes" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!