Military Question regarding state of residency


PDA






Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 11:15 AM
So I have an issue I have no house or residency in the United States but am a citizen of the Unites states and in the active duty army currently stationed in Germany. So I live in Germany with a house; my permanent duty station is in Germany. So what state am I legally allowed to buy a firearm in? I wanted to get a BAR 1918A3 SLR while visiting in December back in the states but am confused if I'm able to buy a firearm; specifically Las Vegas, Nevada.

According the the ATF the web site shows: but nothing about permanent residency out of country.


Q: What constitutes residency in a State?
The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

If you enjoyed reading about "Military Question regarding state of residency" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
tyeo098
October 9, 2012, 11:19 AM
You can buy a long gun from an FFL in any state.
Handguns would have to go to an FFL in... Germany?

Wait, what?

Where would you keep this 1918A3? I dont think Germany would let you back in the country with it, nor are .mil bases very firearm friendly.

CoRoMo
October 9, 2012, 11:20 AM
Do you not maintain residency of any state here whatsoever?

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 11:23 AM
There is no way to maintain residency since I have no house or anything; I planned on buying the BAR and keeping it with my brother who is s,rationed in Washington till I return in 2 year. Does anyone have any legal proof to back that if I have my orders and I'd card I'm eligible to go to any state and purchase?

mljdeckard
October 9, 2012, 11:30 AM
I know full well I maintained residency, voting status, tax status, and driving status in Utah while I was stationed in Germany. You must claim a state of residency on yout taxes, ask your S-1.

As far as I know, to bring or take home guns, they must be listed on your orders and hand-carried.

Bubbles
October 9, 2012, 11:31 AM
So, you have no US driver's license or voter registration card? You don't file taxes in any state?

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 11:35 AM
S-1 is very incompetent here or at least mine; apparently im registered in Illinois even though I don't have a house there nor am I registered to vote there; and I'm sure as hell not driving all the way to Illinois just to buy a rifle; is there any loophole that would allow me to purchase in Nevada; I may have to go to legal and change my residency not sure how or with what proof but I will ask; I find this weird that you can be taxed for a state you don't live in.

bikerdoc
October 9, 2012, 11:48 AM
Talk to your JAG officer if possible. He has more resources to get the correct info than the S1 or us.

tyeo098
October 9, 2012, 11:52 AM
is there any loophole that would allow me to purchase in Nevada;

As I said, you can buy a rifle from an FFL in any state.

Grmlin
October 9, 2012, 11:56 AM
Normaly your state of residence is the state you lived in at the time you enlisted unless you change it yourself. I was a resident of Massachusetts untill I retired, I voted absentee and paid taxes even though I never owned a house there. I owned a house in Az and of course here in N.C. and had all the privilages of residency but didn't pay thier state taxes. I should have changed residency to a state with no state tax. There is more involved than just saying I want to be a resident of this state. So if you were a resident of Ill when you entered the service that should be the state your paying taxes to (unless they have no state tax) and be listed on your LES.

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 11:57 AM
TYEO

What is the basis for your claim to being able to purchase in any state? And what paperwork is required is a military ID and orders good enough? Have I delt with this before?,
Thank you

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 11:58 AM
Typo have you dealt with this before?

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 12:01 PM
Currently I am an Illinois resident and pay taxes there; however all my family is on the west coast and I have to reason to go to Illinois so because of that is there anyway around it as to me buying a rifle or am I stuck to Illinois even though my residency is technically no citizen of Germany

BullfrogKen
October 9, 2012, 12:10 PM
I find this weird that you can be taxed for a state you don't live in.

Not any more weird than you being able to cast a ballot in a state you don't live in. But that's how things work for people serving in the military. Or even college students.


Residency does not mean that you own a house in that state. It's where you "call home", where you live most of the time.

It becomes a little complex for members of the military. Most members retain residency in the state where they entered the military from until they get to a permanent duty station and can establish residency in that state.

Back when I was in, living in a military barracks wasn't enough. So I kept my residency in the state I entered military service from - Maryland. It's the state I paid my taxes to and voted in using absentee ballots.

What state do you pay state taxes to? What state's drivers license do you have? What state are you registered to vote in?


You're not going to be able to switch your residency to a state just because you want to. Otherwise a whole bunch of us military members would declare residency in a state with no sales tax.

Grmlin
October 9, 2012, 12:20 PM
If the state your family is in is a state you want to be a resident of the next time you visit them on leave get your drivers license there and change it with your S-1 also check with the state on residency requirements. You can also talk to your S-1 or legal (JAG) office to see if there is another way to change your residency. Buying a long gun is not like buying a pistol you can generaly get a long gun without being a resident just ask the dealer, some states may be stricter than others. You can purchase a pistol but cannot take possesion of it, it has to be sent to a dealer in your state of residency. Unless you are stationed there and have a copy of your PCS orders showing that you were permanently assigned there (at least untill the next set of orders). I had a concealed carry from Ma and N.C. at the same time I was a legal resident of Ma but was stationed here in N.C. When I was in Az I purchased handguns and long guns

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 12:35 PM
When u where in Arizona what did they require for you to purchase your rifle? Should I contact and FFL in Nevada or Arizona and see there 2 cents. How can u tell what states allow out of state residence to purchase rifles?

Grmlin
October 9, 2012, 12:47 PM
Well if my memory serves me well all I needed for the long gun was my ID (MA. driver license and military). When I purchased my pistols I showed my ID's and a set of the orders stationing me there. After the first two purchases I just did the basics because I was in there alot and they got to know me, this was also about 20+ years ago. When you talk to the dealer they should be able to tell you all the requirements. If you purchase online it has to go to a FFA dealer so I don't know about getting it to Germany. If we have some dealers on here it would be nice to get there .02 cents also talk to your legal if you plan to try and have it sent to Germany many laws there to figure out.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 01:23 PM
Desert Scorpion....

Do you have a photo ID from any state such as a driver's license or state issued ID card.

18 USC 922 (b)(3) states:

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States

State of residency can be proven to an FFL for use on the form 4473 by an active duty military member in one of three ways:

1. Present a state issued photo ID card or driver's license that is from the same state you are claiming to be a resident of,

2. Present an Active Duty Military ID card and a copy of permanent duty station orders to the state you are claiming to be a resident of (won't work for you, since your orders are to Germany),

3. Present any government issued photo ID such as driver's license or your active duty mility ID card. In addition, present an additional government document such as tax record, voter registration card, vehicle title/registration that shows residency in the state you are claiming.

According to Federal Regulations, however, 27 CFR 478.11, for the purposes of firearms transactions you technically have no state of residence because you are not present in any state with the intention of making a home there and are not ordered on active duty orders to any state:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b).

Your Home of Record state has no bearing at all on firearms transactions.

18 USC 922 link:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-44

27 CFR 478.11 link:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=9dc5fb436dc28324df15caf79a68c8a2&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.2.1.1&idno=27

BullfrogKen
October 9, 2012, 01:24 PM
Since you declined to answer I looked back through your posting history and saw an attempt to get a California driver's license. Guess you got it? Maybe not? If you did it's going to be even tougher for you to complete the purchase, being an Illinois resident with a California driver's license.


You know, I've really got to ask what the pressing reason is that you buy this while you're home on leave. I understand you as saying you want to purchase the rifle while you're in Vegas, and I guess shipping it to your brother in Washington state? That's going to add to the cost.

I guess you can call some dealers in Vegas and see if one will accomodate you, but it sounds like a big hassle to go through to buy a gun you won't see much of for two years. Is there some reason why you can't wait until you rotate back to the states and buy it when you get to your next stateside duty station?

Bubbles
October 9, 2012, 01:37 PM
Currently I am an Illinois resident and pay taxes there...
Do you have an Illinois FOID? Because without one no FFL in the country should sell you a gun - we have to abide by the laws both in our state and in your state of residence.

BullfrogKen
October 9, 2012, 01:52 PM
It sounds even more complex than that.


The FFL would probably want to make sure he's complying with three state laws -
Illinois, as the state of declared residency;
California, as the state it sounds like he has his driver's license issued from;
and Nevada, as the state making the sale.

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 01:57 PM
Yes I do have an Illinois FOID but no longer live there and don't plan on driving all that way; my drivers lic is Illinois as well but there technically void since you must "reside" in a state to buy a gun I reside in no state at all so what do I'd do? And in response bullfrog; because I want to because I am a Unites States soldier and the fact I'm being <screwed> with bothers me; and this particular firearm is rare and keeps going up in price like every year the BAR use to be 2000 now it's 4300.00 and with all these shootings I wouldn't be surprised if the dam things illegal by the time I get back if at all available.

The fact I'm being taxed for a state I don't live in and not able to buy a firearm unless I drive or fly all the way Illinois is outrageous; and under technical law I can't even buy in Illinois because I don't even live there! Soooo I'm being denied my right to the second amendment because my <butt> is stuck in Germany waiting to go to Afganistan and have only seen the states for 10 days in 2 years.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 01:58 PM
It sounds even more complex than that.


The FFL would probably want to make sure he's complying with three state laws -
Illinois, as the state of declared residency;
California, as the state it sounds like he has his driver's license issued from;
and Nevada, as the state making the sale.
There is only ONE spot for ONE state of residency on the form 4473. An FFL must only comply with the laws of the state their business is in, and the state of residency listed on the form 4473.

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 02:00 PM
I don't have a drivers lic in California or Illinois disregard archived post; all my IDs are in Illinois my family lives in California and Nevada; forget about being a resident of California I will pass on that.

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 02:07 PM
This isn't the first time of been screwed in a weird legal loop; back a few years ago Illinois denied me the right to keep weapons because I was 18 I couldn't even buy rifles because u needed a FOID the kicker was you had to have your parents or legal guardian sign for you if you where under 21 but the secret legal problem was your legal guardians had to be a resident of Illinois to sign the consent my parents lived in California so I got denied for 2 years until I was 21 now I'm in Germany and denied again so yyaaaaaa I'm pretty pissed off now like dumbfounded and extremely agitated this weird legal stuff keeps happening to me.

BullfrogKen
October 9, 2012, 02:32 PM
There is only ONE spot for ONE state of residency on the form 4473. An FFL must only comply with the laws of the state their business is in, and the state of residency listed on the form 4473.

Yup, but if I was making the sale I'd be concerned that the customer in front of me might not actually be a resident of Illinois when his ID was issued by California.

Anyway, the issue is moot now since he said he didn't get his California driver's license.


You know Scorpion, back in 2007 you were convinced the AWB was going to come back again. It's unlikely to be re-introduced again. The Congress doesn't have the will to make it an issue, so I'd put money on the statement that you'll be able to buy your rifle when you get a stateside post.


The fact I'm being taxed for a state I don't live in

Yeah, because that's your state of residency. While Illinois is taxing you, Germany is not. And when you get stateside, unless you meet the hurdle of establishing residency in your new state, Illinois is getting the tax revenue your new state is missing out on. Point is you are still eligible to vote in the state you are a resident of, even though you don't live there.

While we're on the topic of voter eligibility - complaining about future guns bans while not being registered to vote is disingenuous. Get registered, son.



Simmer down. The world is not out to screw you.

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 02:44 PM
Words of wisdom; I will just wait, this is just to much problems. I hope you see however why I'm so agitated. voting to me just doesn't seem to help since its electoral and both states I ever resided in just go demo anyways. So I channel my help through the NRA they seem to be doing a good job.

VPLthrneck
October 9, 2012, 02:58 PM
If most of your family is now on the west coast, then when you are back stateside go and renew your driver's license in the state they are in. If you want to keep your guns at your brothers in Washington then go there and get a WA drivers license, register to vote there, and use his physical address as your place of residence. Then when you get back to Germany go to your personnel office and update your W-4 tax forms to change your tax info to reflect your new state of residency. If you don't want to be a resident of WA, and you have family elsewhere outside of Illinois then visit them and use their address to establish residency in that particular state. Might sound complicated but should take you only a few hours of time. You will have to surrender your IL drivers license when you go to get one from another state, but that will only cement proof of your new state residency.

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 03:31 PM
That sounds like the best idea I will just use there address and change over Washington sounds like the best bet. Thank you

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 04:33 PM
Yup, but if I was making the sale I'd be concerned that the customer in front of me might not actually be a resident of Illinois when his ID was issued by California.

Then it would not be an issue of also complying with California law. It would be an issue of making a false statement on the form 4473, and if you had reasonable reason to believe that a false statement was made on the form 4473 and completed the sale anyway, you would be a conspirator in the commission of a felony.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 04:39 PM
If most of your family is now on the west coast, then when you are back stateside go and renew your driver's license in the state they are in. If you want to keep your guns at your brothers in Washington then go there and get a WA drivers license, register to vote there, and use his physical address as your place of residence. Then when you get back to Germany go to your personnel office and update your W-4 tax forms to change your tax info to reflect your new state of residency. If you don't want to be a resident of WA, and you have family elsewhere outside of Illinois then visit them and use their address to establish residency in that particular state. Might sound complicated but should take you only a few hours of time. You will have to surrender your IL drivers license when you go to get one from another state, but that will only cement proof of your new state residency.That sounds like the best idea I will just use there address and change over Washington sounds like the best bet. Thank you
Still does not fulfill the legal requirement for residency for firearms transactions, though. Now we are creating a conspiracy to commit a Federal felony.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.2.1.1&idno=27

§ 478.11 Meaning of terms.
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

brickeyee
October 9, 2012, 04:41 PM
Residency for tax purposes is NOT the same as residency for purchasing firearms.

Under the letter of the law you may not be able to purchase a firearm in ANY state since you are NOT an actual resident of any state (physically present in the state with the intention of staying there and making a home).

A state may consider you a resident without satisfying BATFE.

The IRS may consider you a resident for paying income taxes.

Neither mean anything to BATFE for purchasing a gun.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 04:45 PM
Exactly correct, brickeyee. There is nothing in the definition of State of Residency in 27 CFR 478.11 about paying taxes, being registered to vote, being the military Home of Record or even having a driver's license or state ID card that establishes residency.

Desert Scorpion
October 9, 2012, 05:15 PM
The military has a lot of people in it that love and collect weapons I'm sure there is a law somewhere that grants me the right to own a firearm there is no way all of us over here just can't have our second amendment; it's just not feasible at all. This is agitating me I'm off for the night.

BullfrogKen
October 9, 2012, 05:17 PM
brickeyee,

Very succinct way of making a point. Thanks for clearing that up for us.


If he is still intent on buying this gun right now, not later, perhaps the best thing to do is make the purchase and wait until he's stationed back stateside to actually effect the transfer to take possession.

I imagine places like Bud's Gun Shop get see this sort of thing from time to time. They'll offer those great sales on big trade-ins, and when someone serving overseas wants one I imagine they'll accommodate by selling the gun and waiting until the servicemember gets home to ship it to his FFL.


That sounds like a much better idea than attempting what's been suggested above.

tom e gun
October 9, 2012, 05:37 PM
To the original poster:
The military follows the rules of the "host nation" when it comes to firearms. I spent three years there in Germany and after finding out what it took just to bring over firearms there (legally anyway) I simply gave up. I believe you have to take a hunters course of several months in length, plus have either a hunting or sporting purpose for even trying to own a gun. Also you are allowed to have one rifle and one pistol. (Pistol for "coup de gras" in the case of not killing an animal with first rifle shot, to then put them down "humanely")
In addition, if your are a single soldier/barracks dweller, you will be required to have your firearms stored in your unit's Arms Room (with Command approval of course) and it must be on their "books" for inventory purposes right along side the issued weapons (though stored in its own seperate rack or locked case/locker) Another also: to retrieve ones weapon for use, you also must get the Commanders approval whenever you want to get it from the Arms Room. (I managed my unit's Arms Room there) Now as far as if you have On/Off Post housing, I'm not clear of the rules for keeping Arms there, though I imagine on post wouldn't be nearly as troublesome as off post.
I was stationed in Kaiserslautern and the Vogelweh housing area there had a Rod & Gun club off to the side of it that rented firearms for use and also sold some, so if you find an organization such as that near you anywhere there you could get the full scope of what you could do to facilitate your firearms owning ability.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 05:39 PM
The military has a lot of people in it that love and collect weapons I'm sure there is a law somewhere that grants me the right to own a firearm there is no way all of us over here just can't have our second amendment; it's just not feasible at all. This is agitating me I'm off for the night.

1. The Second Amendment does not apply outside the United States. You have no Second Amendment rights outside the US.
2. It's against military regulations for me to carry a personal firearm in uniform, even inside the United States. We give up lots of rights when we VOLUNTEER for military service.
3. You can own a firearm. Nothing is prohibiting you from owning a firearm. You just can't purchase one until you are physically present in a state with the intention of living there and not merely visiting a or multiple state(s) on leave.

VPLthrneck
October 9, 2012, 07:36 PM
Desert Scorpion had stated in an earlier posting that he maintained no residence in IL and had no family there, so I was merely letting him know the best way to change his residency to a location that is friendlier to gun owners than IL is. Also certain states do not tax military income as long as you can prove you did not earn that income in the state.

As far as purchasing a firearm when you are stationed in a state other than where your driver's license is issued, that will also require you to show a copy of military orders (to prove you are stationed in that state and not passing through), your military ID card, and your driver's license. The orders are used to meet the requirement of being a "resident." And the driver's license is used to check if your home state has other requirments such as IL and their FOID card. How do I know this: I bought all my firearms while in the military and never once had any intention of making a home in any state I was stationed in; I had orders to those places which fulfilled the requirement.

You can own a firearm. Nothing is prohibiting you from owning a firearm. You just can't purchase one until you are physically present in a state with the intention of living there and not merely visiting a or multiple state(s) on leave.

Not totally correct there. Depending on the state you are visiting you can buy a rifle or shotgun, but not a pistol. I found this out when I was in Montana on leave and went to the local gun store. Told them I was visiting from California and the response was that I could only buy a rifle or shotgun due to federal and state laws. When I showed them my MT drivers license they were happy to sell me a pistol (didn't buy it because it was cheaper in San Diego than Miles City).

However, if you were a resident of WA before joining the Navy, and have been continually stationed there, then none of this would have ever effected you.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 08:32 PM
As far as purchasing a firearm when you are stationed in a state other than where your driver's license is issued, that will also require you to show a copy of military orders (to prove you are stationed in that state and not passing through), your military ID card, and your driver's license. The orders are used to meet the requirement of being a "resident." And the driver's license is used to check if your home state has other requirments such as IL and their FOID card. How do I know this: I bought all my firearms while in the military and never once had any intention of making a home in any state I was stationed in; I had orders to those places which fulfilled the requirement.

Incorrect. As I posted, the applicable CFR clearly states that military members ARE A RESIDENT of the state they have permanent orders to. Again, the military members Home of Record state has NOTHING to do with it. Let's say I entered the military from Illinois, and I maintain Illinois as my home of record, and I get permanently stationed to Washington. The ONLY state laws I have to meet to buy firearms in Washington is Washington's laws. I can purchase handguns in Washington with only my active duty military ID card and my orders to Washington state. I never have to show my Illinois driver's license and I am not required to posses an Illinois FOID card.

If I choose to return to Illinois with my firearms, THEN I would be required to have the Illinois FOID.

Not totally correct there. Depending on the state you are visiting you can buy a rifle or shotgun, but not a pistol. I found this out when I was in Montana on leave and went to the local gun store. Told them I was visiting from California and the response was that I could only buy a rifle or shotgun due to federal and state laws. When I showed them my MT drivers license they were happy to sell me a pistol (didn't buy it because it was cheaper in San Diego than Miles City).

A Federal felony in the making. A driver's license does not make you a resident of a state for the purposes of firearms transactions. You were VISITING Montana - not present there with the intention of remaining there to make a home. Your intention was to return to California, your state of residence, after your leave period was over. If you would have purchased the handgun in Montana, you would have committed a couple of Federal Felonies.

Yes, you can purchase rifles and shotguns when VISITING another state - HOWEVER, in order to do so, you MUST have a LEGITIMATE state of residence, as defined in 27 CFR 478.11. From the information contained in Desert Scorpion's posts, he has no current state of residence in the US for the purposes of firearms transactions.

VPLthrneck
October 9, 2012, 09:39 PM
Example 2. A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

This is the loophole that military members fall under. Especially when you use orders to fulfill the BATFE requirement for proof of residency in one state (State X), but your vehicle registration, driver's license, and taxes are filed in a different state-hence making you a resident of that state also (State Y). So while you are on leave and you go back to State Y, you are then a resident of that state, not State X and everything is legit. After leave and you are back in State X, then you are a resident of that state. And all it takes to maintain a home is just leave some stuff at the other place; something that shows you have intentions so return there.

So if I would have purchased a handgun in Montana; even though I was stationed in California, it would have been done so as a resident of Montana. But by waiting 20 days and buying it upon my return to California, I did so as a resident of California through the use of military orders.

Now just because someone is in the military and is stationed overseas, they don't lose their stateside residency. And to say they do is just asinine. The key is having a valid form of identification with a legitimate, physical address on it.
So if someone is stationed in Germany, or Korea, or Japan; but has a driver's license from Kansas; and goes to Nevada for a vacation they can still purchase a rifle there because they can utilize Kansas as their residence.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 10:38 PM
This is the loophole that military members fall under. Especially when you use orders to fulfill the BATFE requirement for proof of residency in one state (State X), but your vehicle registration, driver's license, and taxes are filed in a different state-hence making you a resident of that state also (State Y). So while you are on leave and you go back to State Y, you are then a resident of that state, not State X and everything is legit. After leave and you are back in State X, then you are a resident of that state. And all it takes to maintain a home is just leave some stuff at the other place; something that shows you have intentions so return there.

So if I would have purchased a handgun in Montana; even though I was stationed in California, it would have been done so as a resident of Montana. But by waiting 20 days and buying it upon my return to California, I did so as a resident of California through the use of military orders.

Now just because someone is in the military and is stationed overseas, they don't lose their stateside residency. And to say they do is just asinine. The key is having a valid form of identification with a legitimate, physical address on it.
So if someone is stationed in Germany, or Korea, or Japan; but has a driver's license from Kansas; and goes to Nevada for a vacation they can still purchase a rifle there because they can utilize Kansas as their residence.
Again, VPLthrneck is posting very incorrect information that could cause people to commit illegal firearms purchases.

VPLthrneck
October 9, 2012, 11:11 PM
So what is incorrect and would create an illegal purchase? Seven gun shops in three states had no problem with any of this, and six of them do alot of business with military members stationed in their locales; so I'll trust to their advice and business methods.

hermannr
October 9, 2012, 11:35 PM
Desert: Off topic, but not. While you are in the military you may choose any state as your state of record...then you can register to vote, purchase firearms that are legal for that state, and you will pay whatever state taxes that are assessed on workers of that state.

When I entered the military, I did so in California. When my parents moved back to Washington, for paperwork purposes, I changed my home of record to Washington too. There is one real good reason to choose WA for a HoR...no state income tax. (and then when I got out of the military, I stayed in WA. till here 42+ years later.)

You said you had a brother in WA? If it is agreeable with him, use his address as your HoR until you get out of the military...You might just decide to stay too. When you are visiting your brother, get a WA drivers license, register to vote, and you will become a Washingtonian, even if you are in Afganistan in the military.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 11:37 PM
So what is incorrect and would create an illegal purchase? Seven gun shops in three states had no problem with any of this, and six of them do alot of business with military members stationed in their locales; so I'll trust to their advice and business methods.

I have maintained a Wyoming Driver's License since 1984. I have not been a resident of Wyoming since 1988. Again, the definition of state of residence in CFR is VERY CLEAR.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=d5c96c680e27d15ce93f944aac3b65f1&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.2.1.1&idno=27

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b).

My first set of permanent duty orders was to Windsor, Connecticut. Because I had an Active Duty Military ID Card and permanent orders to Connecticut, I was a resident of Connecticut for the purposes of firearms transactions, according to the underlined portion above.

When I was stationed in Connecticut, I actually lived in Massachusetts. Every morning I would wake up in Mass, and drive to CT. At night I would drive back to Mass to go to bed in my military housing unit there. Since I was present in Mass WITH THE INTENTION OF MAKING A HOME THERE, I was also a resident of Massachusetts for the purposes of firearms transactions, which is the bold part of the above statute. During that time period, I had dual and equal states of residence, Mass and CT. This situation is explained clearly by the ATF on page 180, question (B11) of this document:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

During the time that I was ordered to CT and lived in Mass, I maintained a driver's license from Wyoming, for tax purposes was a resident of Wyoming, and voted in Wyoming by absentee ballot. My mother lived in Wyoming. HOWEVER - FOR THE PURPOSES OF FIREARMS TRANSACTIONS I WAS IN NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM A RESIDENT OF WYOMING. Even if I visited my mother while on leave, I was not present and have not been present in Wyoming with the intention of making a home there. Visiting relatives does not count as clearly explained by example 1 of 27 CFR 478.11:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

The "loophole" that you say applies to ALL military members only applies if the military member actually, physically lives in one state and is ordered to another, like I was ordered to CT, but lived in Mass. It does NOT apply to military members who hold a driver's license, pay taxes and vote in a state that they do not PHYSICALLY maintain a presence in WITH THE INTENTION OF MAKING A HOME there.

It would be completely 100% illegal for me to walk into a gun shop in Wyoming, show my Wyoming driver's license, claim Wyoming as my state of residence and purchase a handgun because even though I have visited family several times in Wyoming, I have not been present in Wyoming WITH THE INTENTION OF MAKING A HOME THERE since 1988.

If a Wyoming gun store were to make the sale to me, everything ON PAPER would APPEAR to be legit....there would be a Wyoming driver's license number on the form 4473, there would be a relative's Wyoming address on the form 4473, and Wyoming would be written in as state of residence. But the sale would still be ILLEGAL, and I would commit a felony. And, if I brought that gun back into my real state of residence, I would commit a second felony in doing so.

As a side note - my Wyoming driver's license has an address in Washington state on it, which is my actual state of residence.

Grmlin
October 9, 2012, 11:40 PM
I was stationed in Japan, went home on leave got my conceal carry and purchased a handgun and rifle. Everyone from the Police Chief to the gun dealer knew I was stationed over seas and had been for almost two years. When I got station here in N.C. I had conceal carry permits in two states. I asked if it was legal before getting it. I was told that since I was stationed here I was eligable even though I was not a resident of N.C.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 11:43 PM
I was stationed in Japan, went home on leave got my conceal carry and purchased a handgun and rifle. Everyone from the Police Chief to the gun dealer knew I was stationed over seas and had been for almost two years. When I got station here in N.C. I had conceal carry permits in two states. I asked if it was legal before getting it. I was told that since I was stationed here I was eligable even though I was not a resident of N.C.
Which is absolutely no proof that you met the Federal definition of resident for firearms transactions. Good ol' boy gun dealers can easily illegally sell a gun knowing that if the paperwork looks right there is 99% chance nothing will ever be said about it, or they might not even know the intricacies of Federal law.

NavyLCDR
October 9, 2012, 11:48 PM
Being stationed overseas in no way, shape or form makes my Home of Record state magically become my state of residence for firearms transactions, any more than being stationed half way across the continental United States. If I am not present there WITH THE INTENTION OF LIVING THERE, or have permanent orders there....I am not a resident there for the purpose of firearms transactions.

Rob0321
October 10, 2012, 12:09 AM
As NAVYLCDR said, the orders are what makes it legal for you to purchase a firearm in that state.

Being stationed in CA with a home of record of NY (two gun friendly states, right :) ) I purchased several handguns and two long guns, the long guns in NY and the handguns in CA. Being stationed in Japan, I stored my guns in NY with my family and didn't purchase much of anything.

It is your PCS orders that are going to allow you to purchase a weapon in any given state. They have to assign you to that state.

VPLthrneck
October 10, 2012, 12:37 AM
You're to caught up with the "intention of living there" phrase. While you might have decided to "intend to live there," at most the places you were stationed, for most military members they have no intention of living where they are stationed while on active duty, much less after they get out of active duty. I know I had no intention of ever living in North Carolina, California, Okinawa, or Washington. So hence going home on leave is technically not a vacation or anything of the such, but a form of "maintaining a residence." Same as being stationed overseas; most people have no intention of living there, but are there for work purposes; i.e. under orders. So it falls to reason that the place they "intend to live" is most likely their home of record. Thus making it legal to purchase a firearm once they are back in their home state. Just as being under permanent duty orders makes it legal to purchase a firearm in the state they are stationed in.

Now since your Wyoming license has a Washington address, you have basically told the state of Wyoming, that you have no intention of living there, and any smart gun dealer would not even attempt to make the sale. One year I had to renew my Montana license so when I was home on leave, I asked about having my Washington address put on there and the answer was basically that it would not happen. The lady said something about if I wanted a Washington address I needed to get a Washington license. But every state is different in their rules and that means one needs to be sure about where they want to make home; or "intend to live."

Example 2. A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Now I would go back to the same place in Montana every May/June timeframe for 20 days. This would fit the example of a person maintaining a residence in two states. Similar to the snowbirds that flock to AZ at the same time every year.

NavyLCDR
October 10, 2012, 08:13 AM
You're to caught up with the "intention of living there" phrase.

Only because it happens to be THE ONLY definition of state of residence in Federal law, besides having permanent orders to a state.

And yes, "intention of making a home there" is open to interpretation. But there clearly must be more "intention" than simply holding a driver's license, registered to vote, paying taxes and having relatives in a state. Those items alone are not sufficient to establish "intention of making a home there" for military members.

Desert Scorpion
October 10, 2012, 11:47 AM
Well; thanks to all of you for the discussion on this topic; it would seem unfortunately the law is up for some interpretation. As to residency; and looking at it by definition I'm technically from no state as I don't have a residency there just a piece of plastic with some address on it where I no longer live. Very weird situation that I find to be mind blowing; and this isn't the first time iv fallen under weird legal issues; look at my older post California and Illinois have both given me issues. I hope raising this topic will find an answer for not only me but future soldiers who may have the same issue and can see this post. I will be emailing a large FFL business and seeing what they have to say, the smartest thing may be to ask three separate ones and combine answers as many FFL may not even now what I'm talking about or say simply no we can sell just because they don't really care. So this will be interesting, if anyone knows an FFL please ask them about this topic and post it so we can compare answers.

Bubbles
October 10, 2012, 12:39 PM
I am an FFL. Unless you can show me some sort of government documentation (e.g. your military orders) showing that you're posted in a state other than IL, I'm going to have to use your DL and FOID.

Desert Scorpion
October 10, 2012, 01:23 PM
Would my DL and FOID work in your state?

NavyLCDR
October 10, 2012, 01:39 PM
One more thing to think about. When you fill out the form 4473 you write in your current residence address and swear under penalty of perjury that the info is correct. It is a federal felony to lie about your current residence address on the form.

Bubbles
October 10, 2012, 05:24 PM
Would my DL and FOID work in your state?
As an IL resident I couldn't sell to you if you didn't have them.

I'd also have to check IL's laws to make sure whatever you wanted to purchase isn't prohibited in your state.

Frankly, many FFL's will shy away from selling you anything since your state's laws are so screwy. The same goes for out-of-state buyers from CA, NY, MA, and other states known for having harsher gun control laws.

Desert Scorpion
October 11, 2012, 02:50 AM
Than you for your input

fatelk
October 12, 2012, 03:15 PM
As to residency; and looking at it by definition I'm technically from no state as I don't have a residency there just a piece of plastic with some address on it where I no longer live.
I'm not any kind of legal expert by any means, but it looks to me that this right here could be the main problem? Is your IL DL even valid, since you no longer have any connection to that address? If you never plan on returning there, wouldn't it be better from both a logical and legal perspective to get a drivers license and establish residency in a state that you would most likely intend to come back to when you do come back to the states?

Maybe you should decide where you want to "come home" to.
An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State.
As to Washington state, can you see yourself making your home there when you return? If you go there, stay at your brother's house to establish residency with the full intention of returning to live there once you've fulfilled your obligations with the U.S. military, and you get a Washington DL with this real physical address as opposed to an old invalid one in IL, as a U.S. citizen wouldn't you be more a resident of Washington state than anywhere else?

Again, I'm a novice in this stuff and far greater legal minds have already weighed in. I'm just wondering about a couple thoughts I had. Nobody is suggesting you break or bend any laws, and it's clear that you want to do it right and have no criminal intent, but it does seem to me that your circumstances as a service member stationed overseas must come into consideration somehow.

NavyLCDR
October 12, 2012, 03:26 PM
As soon as Desert Scorpion executes permanent change of station orders to a state, he becomes a resident of that state for the purposes of firearms transactions. At that point it does not matter where his driver's license is from. He only has to comply with the laws of the state he is ordered to (unless he is buying a rifle or shotgun outside the state he is ordered to). Once he executes orders to a state, the only identification required for an FFL transfer is his active duty military ID card and a copy of his orders. He is not required to show a driver's license or any other ID to an FFL.

mgkdrgn
October 12, 2012, 03:38 PM
Would my DL and FOID work in your state?
For a long gun, yes ... provided I followed Illinois rules.

For a handgun ... nope.

Might I suggest you get "residency" in some other more gun friendly (and tax friendly??) state ... Florida and/or Texas come to mind. Won't help you on the handgun thing (have to go through an FFL in your state of residence, federal law) but at least should leave some more $ in your pocket.

brickeyee
October 12, 2012, 04:42 PM
Now just because someone is in the military and is stationed overseas, they don't lose their stateside residency. And to say they do is just asinine.

YOU are the one being asinine.

If you are in the military and stationed outside the USA you DO NOT have a state of residence for purchasing firearms.

You jut do not.

Taxes, driver's licenses, home of record, etc. have NOTHING to do with BATFE and residence for purchasing firearms.

Military folks are not using any 'loophole' to purchase in their duty state.

Federal law defines them as residents of the state their permanent orders have sent them to.

It gets even weirder sometimes when they have orders that show one state, but their physical duty station is in another (and they occasionally live in a third).

This happens around Washington, DC on a regular basis.

Permanent orders may list Washington, DC.

Duty station may be at the Pentagon (in Arlington, Virginia).

They may have a spouse and home in Maryland.

NavyLCDR
October 12, 2012, 05:11 PM
Again, exactly correct on all points, brickeyee! And this isn't a permanent situation for the service member. The same day that they execute orders to a state again, they become residents of that state for the purpose of firearms transactions.

VPLthrneck
October 13, 2012, 09:56 PM
So loophole might not have been the correct term; but military members, college students, and snowbirds need to be aware of what is allowed as per the ATF.

ATF Rule 2010-6 http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf

This breaks down what does or does not qualify as residency, how to prove residency, and what FFL's can use to verify residency.

The previous paragraph to the first quote states that college students are considered residents of the state that their on or off campus housing is located. Very similar to military members being considered residents of the state the have orders to. Prior to that the document states that FFL's must be provided with proof of residency, and lists a variety of ways that residency can be proved.
It then goes to this:
The same reasoning applies to citizens of the United States who reside temporarily outside of the country for extended periods of time, but who also maintain residency in a particular State. Where a citizen temporarily resides outside of the country, but also has the intention of making a home in a particular State, the citizen is a resident of the State during the time he or she actually resides in that State. In acquiring a firearm, the individual must demonstrate to the transferor-licensee that he or she is a resident of the State by presenting valid identification documents.

OK, that makes sense; an extended period of time could be considered under military orders to an overseas base. Then it continues:
Held, for the purpose of acquiring firearms under the Gun Control Act of 1968, a United States citizen who temporarily resides in a foreign country, but who also demonstrates the intention of making a home in a particular State, is a resident of the State during the time period he or she actually resides in that State.
So the ATF reinforces that when a person is back from being overseas, that person is a resident of a state if they can prove it.

But what is the proof? This:
Held further, the intention of making a home in a State must be demonstrated to a Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents. Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver’s licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration.

So, as per the ATF, to prove residency what you need is "valid identification documents." And there it is in black and white: driver's license, tax records, voter's registration, or vehicle registration.

Also the ATF does not consider home/real estate/land ownership as proof of residency as a way of preventing real estate investors from playing the system.

SSN Vet
October 14, 2012, 08:34 AM
It's called the soldiers and sailors civil relief act...

You must declare any of the 50 states as your state of legal residence upon entry. Most declare either their home state or a state with no income tax.

But this is for tax, drivers license and and vehicle registration purposes.... and doesn't change BATF and state regs re. firearms.

Librarian
October 14, 2012, 05:47 PM
It's called the soldiers and sailors civil relief act...

You must declare any of the 50 states as your state of legal residence upon entry. Most declare either their home state or a state with no income tax.

But this is for tax, drivers license and and vehicle registration purposes.... and doesn't change BATF and state regs re. firearms.
Right. The code is in 50 USC.

One can read the act by following this link: http://www.justice.gov/crt/spec_topics/military/scra.php

fatelk
October 15, 2012, 12:43 AM
Held, for the purpose of acquiring firearms under the Gun Control Act of 1968, a United States citizen who temporarily resides in a foreign country, but who also demonstrates the intention of making a home in a particular State, is a resident of the State during the time period he or she actually resides in that State.
Held further, the intention of making a home in a State must be demonstrated to a Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents. Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver’s licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration.
Interesting. To me this seems to support exactly what I was wondering about. Come to WA state, get a WA drivers license with the intention of making it your home when you return to the U.S., and it is legally your state of residence when you are physically there. This sure seems logical and reasonable to me, but I do realize that laws are not always so, and just because something seems reasonable to me doesn't make it so.

If you are in the military and stationed outside the USA you DO NOT have a state of residence for purchasing firearms.

You jut do not.
Just curious, and please don't flame me if I'm wrong as I could easily be wrong, but how does this statement jive with the ATF ruling quoted above?

NavyLCDR
October 15, 2012, 12:42 PM
Interesting. To me this seems to support exactly what I was wondering about. Come to WA state, get a WA drivers license with the intention of making it your home when you return to the U.S., and it is legally your state of residence when you are physically there. This sure seems logical and reasonable to me, but I do realize that laws are not always so, and just because something seems reasonable to me doesn't make it so.

Just curious, and please don't flame me if I'm wrong as I could easily be wrong, but how does this statement jive with the ATF ruling quoted above?

It comes down to mostly a matter of personal integrity and whether the person will honestly attempt to comply with the law - or just take an action required to purchase a firearm knowing full well they are violating the law.

Does Desert Scorpion really have intentions of physically residing in WA state when he returns from Germany? Does he hope to get orders to WA state next? Does he hope to live in WA state after he gets out of the military?

Or does he just have family in WA state that he VISITS occasionally.

Many people, it seems, have a very hard time understanding what "present with an intention of making a home" means. According to the examples given in the Federal Regulation there must be some sort of actual residence established that is used for living in that state for part of the year on more than a visiting relatives, hunting trip, or vacation basis.

fatelk
October 15, 2012, 01:15 PM
That's what I was thinking. To really do it right he would need to decide where he wants to live when the time comes. I would think a person should do that anyhow, but can understand how it might be a little different for someone in the military, especially not having any solid connections to any one place back here in the states.

Thanks for the reply NavyLCDR. Desert Scorpion- I hope it all works out well for you. Thank you for your service to our country.

Jim, West PA
October 15, 2012, 02:32 PM
Scorpion, is it possible for your brother to just buy the gun and then once you return home and get squared away, have it transfered to you ?
Or, maybe your folks ?

brickeyee
October 15, 2012, 02:52 PM
Held, for the purpose of acquiring firearms under the Gun Control Act of 1968, a United States citizen who temporarily resides in a foreign country, but who also demonstrates the intention of making a home in a particular State, is a resident of the State during the time period he or she actually resides in that State.


Did you even read your own posting?
Do you understand what it says?


but who also demonstrates the intention of making a home in a particular State, is a resident of the State during the time period he or she actually resides in that State.
you have to RESIDE in the state, AND show intention to make a home ad THEN you can purchase.

Fail to reside, fail to show intention to make a home, you have NO state or residence for firearms purchases.

It is a bad intersection of a host of laws.
And some states have additional restrictions.

fatelk
October 15, 2012, 11:08 PM
I'm hesitant to post again, but I am still a little curious considering the last post. I'm not trying to argue or challenge anyone's authority on the matter, so please be patient with me.

For the sake of argument let's say a service member stationed overseas (Bob) comes home on leave and decides to move. He packs all of his belongings into a duffel bag at his former roommate's apartment in the state of Florida, says goodby and hops a bus to Montana to stay with Uncle Joe for the few days left until he has to go back. He tosses his belongings in the closet in Uncle Joe's spare room with the full intention of making Montana his permanent home when he gets out of the military, then goes down to the DMV and gets a Montana drivers license. He no longer has any connection to the state of Florida. Anytime he comes back to the U.S. his home is now Uncle Joe's spare room, and that is reflected on his ID. He's not there on a hunting trip or a vacation. It is his home in every sense when he is not obligated elsewhere working for Uncle Sam. He may be residing there for only a few days, but he is residing with the full intention of making it his home.

Is he not now a legal Montana resident? I don't see any minimum amount of time that he must reside in the state, just that for the purpose of purchasing a firearm he appears legally able to do so during the time that he actually resides in the state. A hunting trip or vacation doesn't cut the mustard because in those cases there is no intention to make it a home, but in Bob's case it's his only home other than that which Uncle Sam provides overseas. I'm not a lawyer; what am I missing? That's a sincere question, not a challenge, so please take it as such.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf
The same reasoning applies to citizens of the United States who reside temporarily outside of the country for extended periods of time, but who also maintain residency in a particular State. Where a citizen temporarily resides outside of the country, but also has the intention of making a home in a particular State, the citizen is a resident of the State during the time he or she actually resides in that State. In acquiring a firearm, the individual must demonstrate to the transferor-licensee that he or she is a resident of the State by presenting valid identification documents.

Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State.
It looks to me that short term stays are an issue in regards to intention, not time.

ADDED: I thought of one thing I was missing here; it's going to take more than a few days to establish residency for the purpose of obtaining a drivers license. It's been a long time since I've even had to change my address on my drivers license, but I believe you need to have a utility bill, mortgage doc, credit card statement, etc. to prove physical address. This certainly takes more than a few days.

JimP
October 16, 2012, 04:40 PM
You are ALL confusing the issue. There is: 1) a Home of Record (usually where you entered the service from); 2) there is a "Domicile" (usually where you live(d) or intend to remain; 3) there is "Resident" (usually where you are right now as a result of military orders).

Sometimes the three meet at various points; sometimes they don't.

The rules are written for tax purposes and are a result of the Internal Revenue Code. For instance, you can have a home of record of Massachusetts (where you entered the service from) and have orders stationing you in North Carolina (currently residing due to military orders). I had such an arrangement. When I was stationed in Texas, I bought a house, registered to vote and got a Texas drivers license. These are INDICATIVE of being a Texas resident and prevents Massachusetts from challenging my State residence (legal) change from Mass. to Texas in order to avouid State taxes, (Texas has no state income tax).

You can claim almost anything you want on your LES as your official state residence but it doesn't keep the state from challenging your election. You can't simply get a drivers license in another state and then not pay income taxes to any of the competeting states (unless that particular state has no income tax). And EVEN THEN, you may be challenged by your losing state to prove the incidents of residency (voting;house;drivers license). Every state accepts all three as indicative of lawful change of residency (as will the Fed court in a conflicts case). The more tenuous of a connection you claim, the less you may be successful.

As to the OP, you are a resident of Illinois and will have to abide by Illinois law unless the OTHER state you get stationed in allows you to purchase firearms with your oders. Currently, I am a Texas resident stationed in Illinois and have bought several firearms in THIS state. I cannot think of another state that I would be able to buy a firearm (other than Texas and Illinois). I KNOW the state of my HOR (Mass.) would NOT allow me to buy a firearm nor allow me any incidents of residency despite me having that as a HOR and growing up there.

Clear as mud??

fatelk
October 16, 2012, 05:50 PM
Clear as mud??
I see. Actually I don't, but that's OK. There are obviously military rules and tax rules regarding residency that I'm completely ignorant of, having never lived outside my home state. I was just going off of the wording of the ATF ruling in the link VLPthrneck provided, and that seemed pretty clear. Thanks for muddying, er, I mean clearing that up.:)

To the OP, again, I hope it all works out for you. I would love to have a BAR, but they're a little out of my price range. My grandfather used to tell me about training with them during WWII, and how much he liked them. I think it would be a real kick to shoot one some day.

longshot7.62x51
October 18, 2012, 07:09 AM
Ok simple awnser is to call but my personal experience is this. regardless of the state iv lived in/ been staioned in if you use your mil id you will need a copy of the PCS ORDERS saying your staioned in that state,or a driver license from the state your in. Being staioned in Germany was a huge pain in my ass because I was unable to buy a gun in any state besides CA which we all know is hard any way. So from my experience you sol sorry man.

Frank Ettin
October 18, 2012, 11:46 AM
This is getting more muddled and less helpful. Probably the best advice was back in post 8:Talk to your JAG officer if possible....

Closed.

If you enjoyed reading about "Military Question regarding state of residency" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!