reload data for hodgdon H110 Powder


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ralphc21
October 9, 2012, 09:15 PM
Does any one have data for Rainier 44cal 240gr cooper plated
Missouri Bullet .452 250gr RNFP lead Ralph
Berry,s 38/357 158 fn lead
Thanks

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rcmodel
October 9, 2012, 09:22 PM
IMO: H-110 would not be a good choice for either bullet type.

It doesn't do well with reduced loads, and actually becomes unsafe.

And plated and commercial bevel-base lead bullets often don't do well with MAX load, balls to the wall H110 loads.

I'd suggest Alliant 2400, or Alliant Unique for best results.

Save the H-110 for max loads with jacketed bullets until you get more experience with casting your own high performance lead bullets.

rc

CZ57
October 9, 2012, 10:12 PM
You might want to also consider Ramshot Enforcer. www.ramshot.com for data. ;)

ArchAngelCD
October 9, 2012, 10:30 PM
Does any one have data for Rainier 44cal 240gr cooper plated
Missouri Bullet .452 250gr RNFP lead Ralph
Berry,s 38/357 158 fn lead
Thanks
I agree H110 probably isn't the best choice for those bullets.

I like W231, AA#5, Unique, Universal and HS-6 for loading the .45 Colt.

For lead bullets in the 38/357 it's W231 and HS-6 again.

A good load manual or 2 or 3 is a necessity and you should never trust load data given to you on the Internet from an unknown source. All of the powder manufacturers provides load data for their powders.
Hodgdon (http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp) for Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders.
Alliant (http://www.alliantpowder.com/) site.
Accurate Arms (http://www.accuratepowder.com/) site.
Ramshot (http://www.ramshot.com/) site.
VihtaVuori (http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data) load data.

56hawk
October 9, 2012, 10:38 PM
I just use the data for the equivalent weight jacketed bullet. By the way, you didn't mention what cartridges these bullets are going in.

rcmodel
October 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
He ask about plated and cast lead bullets.

Nobody recommends using Jacketed bullet H-110 data for either.

Rainier says to use lead bullet data for thier plated bullets.

Everyone else says to use lead bullet data for lead bullets.

rc

56hawk
October 9, 2012, 11:13 PM
He ask about plated and cast lead bullets.


I know what he asked. And I said that I use whatever data I have the uses the same bullet weight. If you look in the Lyman 49th edition there is very little difference in the load data between jacketed and lead bullets of the same weight.

murf
October 10, 2012, 12:05 AM
56hawk,

i really think that is bad advise. using jacketed load data for lead bullets is plain wrong. it can get a reloader into trouble.

murf

56hawk
October 10, 2012, 12:27 AM
i really think that is bad advise. using jacketed load data for lead bullets is plain wrong. it can get a reloader into trouble.

Well, here is the loads I use for lead bullets that are identical to jacketed data:

357 Magnum 158 grain bullet with 17 grains of H110
44 Magnum 240 grain bullet with 24 grains of H110
44 Magnum 300 grain bullet with 20 grains of H110
454 Casull 300 grain bullet with 30 grains of H110
500 S&W 340 grain bullet with 40.5 grains of H110

I have shot many thousands of these loads with no signs of pressure or any other problems. Care to explain what is unsafe about any of these loads?

ArchAngelCD
October 10, 2012, 12:29 AM
Are you really loading 17.0gr H110 under a 158gr lead bullet?

56hawk
October 10, 2012, 12:41 AM
Are you really loading 17.0gr H110 under a 158gr lead bullet?

Yeah, it's really not that hot. Though it is a little painful out of my M&P 360.

dragon813gt
October 10, 2012, 01:34 PM
Are you really loading 17.0gr H110 under a 158gr lead bullet?

That's the first thing I thought. Max for a 158 grain lead bullet in the cast handbook is maybe 15.5 grains. I'm not at home to check the exact number. 17 grains is well beyond max for H110 with 158 grain cast lead.


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56hawk
October 10, 2012, 01:54 PM
Max for a 158 grain lead bullet in the cast handbook is maybe 15.5 grains. I'm not at home to check the exact number. 17 grains is well beyond max for H110 with 158 grain cast lead.

I'm not at home right now either, but I'm pretty sure the Lyman 49th edition lists loads a lot hotter than 15.5 grains. They also jump around quite a bit with their data depending on the bullet style.

warhwkbb
October 10, 2012, 01:55 PM
Since H110/WW296 cannot be safely down-loaded, and plated lead bullets cannot be safely driven at MAX velocities; H110 and Plated lead bullets are not a recommended combination in any published data.

poco loco
October 10, 2012, 02:23 PM
using Lyman 3rd CBH

(which must be before H110 and W296 were the same powder as the data is wildly different)

the classic cast magnum bullet, 358156gc shows a max for h110 of 15.7 at 40,300cup

while the plain base round nose 358311 shows a max of 18.3 !! @ 40,100cup

Both cast in linotype at the same oal

(it shows a min of 13.0 while 296 shows only a max, no min at all with the Win warning to not download 296... ergo, prior to them being the same powder)

this is obviously outdated info as current Hodgdon shows a max of 16.7 for 158g XTP jacketed and no H110/W296 data for 158g lead swc at all

So, I guess it depends on how old your bottle of H110 is.....

dragon813gt
October 10, 2012, 05:08 PM
Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition
358477 150gr 17gr max
358156 155gr 15.7 max
358665 158gr 15.9 max
358311 160gr 16.5 max

As the weight goes up the loads go down from there. If you post loads beyond maximum published data at least say so. To many people use the forums as their sole source of data. You should also never use jacketed/cast interchangeably. Start at the minimums and work up from there.


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warhwkbb
October 10, 2012, 06:25 PM
using Lyman 3rd CBH

(which must be before H110 and W296 were the same powder as the data is wildly different)

the classic cast magnum bullet, 358156gc shows a max for h110 of 15.7 at 40,300cup

while the plain base round nose 358311 shows a max of 18.3 !! @ 40,100cup

Both cast in linotype at the same oal

(it shows a min of 13.0 while 296 shows only a max, no min at all with the Win warning to not download 296... ergo, prior to them being the same powder)

this is obviously outdated info as current Hodgdon shows a max of 16.7 for 158g XTP jacketed and no H110/W296 data for 158g lead swc at all

So, I guess it depends on how old your bottle of H110 is.....
Every maker of plated lead bullets warns not to use maximum jacketed charges. Which is what the starting load of H110/WW296 already is. (-3%) Plated lead is not the same as Linotype.

ArchAngelCD
October 10, 2012, 08:11 PM
Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition
358477 150gr 17gr max
358156 155gr 15.7 max
358665 158gr 15.9 max
358311 160gr 16.5 max

As the weight goes up the loads go down from there. If you post loads beyond maximum published data at least say so. To many people use the forums as their sole source of data. You should also never use jacketed/cast interchangeably. Start at the minimums and work up from there.
Good post, I couldn't agree more...

4895
October 10, 2012, 08:42 PM
If I were to load H-110 with lead/plated bullets I would for sure use a chrony to monitor velocity changes and try to correlate that with any pressure signs available. I wouldn't be afraid to do it, but I would be concerned if I couldn't find much press about such an experiment (I haven't looked). I would think that the pressure loss from shooting lead bullets would be the problem to be encountered. The lead bullets tend to "slip" inside the barrel easier than copper jackets and the loss of back pressure might be a problem. I would think friction is needed for low burn rate powders and velocity is not the main concern.

I would also test the loads in a public place where spectators would be available to help if needed; first aid, etc.

56hawk
October 10, 2012, 09:29 PM
Well, since my 357 load has got a lot of attention here I dragged out all my reloading manuals and here is what they list:

Lyman 49th
155 Lead 15.7
160 Lead 16.5
158 Jacketed 17

Speer 11th
158 Jacketed 17.8
160 Jacketed 17

LEE
158 Jacketed 14.5

Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook
158 Jacketed 17.7
160 Jacketed 16.8
155 Lead 15.7
158 Lead 18.3

Hodgdon
158 Jacketed 16.7

So, for approximately the same weight bullet Jacketed loads go from 14.5 to 17.8 and Lead loads go from 15.7 to 18.3. Seems like there is quite a range of listed maximums for very similar bullets. Also there is as much variation between different bullet profiles as there is between lead and jacketed.

ArchAngelCD
October 10, 2012, 10:38 PM
155 Lead 15.7
158 Lead 18.3
Please explain to me how a 155gr bullet could use a max charge of 15.7gr and the heavier 158gr bullet jump up to 18.3gr? That's not possible, there's something wrong with that data...

poco loco
October 10, 2012, 11:00 PM
Every maker of plated lead bullets warns not to use maximum jacketed charges. Which is what the starting load of H110/WW296 already is. (-3%) Plated lead is not the same as Linotype.


I know, that is what I was trying to say though perhaps ineffectively...That is why I included the bolded warning that the load was from outdated info and Hodgdon does not even list a lead load of any type for H110/W296 in the .357

Personally, I only use 296 for jacketed or gas checked bullets, never plain base or plated which for all intents and purposes are plain base lead, not close to as hard as Lino from my exp.

56hawk
October 10, 2012, 11:01 PM
Please explain to me how a 155gr bullet could use a max charge of 15.7gr and the heavier 158gr bullet jump up to 18.3gr? That's not possible, there's something wrong with that data...

I was wondering that myself. They both use the same OAL and pressures are listed as within 200 CUP. It's not just with H110 though, they list all powders as having a higher charge weight with the heavier bullet.

poco loco
October 10, 2012, 11:17 PM
Quote:
155 Lead 15.7
158 Lead 18.3
Please explain to me how a 155gr bullet could use a max charge of 15.7gr and the heavier 158gr bullet jump up to 18.3gr? That's not possible, there's something wrong with that data...

I agree that is the same data as Lyman 3rd CBH while as Dragon813gt shows Lyman 4 CBH as

358156 155gr 15.7 max

358311 160gr 16.5 max

That is almost 2 full grains lighter than L3 and evidently their Pistol handbook also....they also listed the 358311 as 160g now and 158g in 3.....

This is why I really like Hodgdons site in addition to all the books.

dragon813gt
October 11, 2012, 05:52 AM
Never mind. Read the post wrong.

blarby
October 11, 2012, 06:33 AM
I agree H110 probably isn't the best choice for those bullets.

Thats not a hard bandwagon to jump on, especially in 44.

H-110 has its place... but that would be behind Gaschecked hardcast lead, TMJ, or JHP's.

Unique, as mentioned- works great for all the lead. Its what I'm going to try with my plateds... somewhere around 12 grs.

I'm loading my first plated in 44 this week- we'll see how it goes. Not my usual forte, but I picked 'em up in trade....why not use 'em.

dragon813gt
October 11, 2012, 10:34 AM
I have no problem using H110 w/ a plain base 170 grain lead bullet. The alloy is 96/2/2 and I have no leading. I never bothered to check hardness because it works. Load it w/ 14.8 grains so I'm very close to max charge. The bullet is sized correctly for my barrel :)


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blarby
October 12, 2012, 12:14 AM
Unfortunately, none of the cast bullets the OP mentioned are indeed, plain base.

Bevels allow a much lower performance window with hot powders.

Mebbe im crazy....but I did some research based on a theory of RC's- and its not a theory anymore. To me, anyway.

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