[smokey30725]

Hello all. My son and I have begun to camp and do a little hiking together on a mountian near where we live. I typically carry a glock 17 or my little Smith and Wesson 422 22lr pistol to deal with coyotes and wild dogs and venomous snakes if necessary. Over the last several years the feral hog population has exploded around my part of north Georgia. We also have a decent amount of blackbears in the area we frequent. It has me wondering if the glock 17 is enough. I typically load 124 gr winchester pdx in it with a spare mag handy. I was wondering what you guys would recommend. Just looking for a "just in case gun" that I can keep handy while fishing, hiking , etc.

[oldandslow]

smokey, 10/10/12

I've put a few hogs down with rifles and shotgun slugs and they can be really tough to drop. One two hundred pounder took a 270 Winchester through both lungs and the heart and still ran full bore 40 yards into the jungle. For my backup pistol I carry either a 44 special SW 329 revolver with 250 grain lead bullets at 900 ft/second or a HK-USPcompact .45 with 230 grain FMJ's so I can get some penetration to the vitals. The good news is that most pigs are nocturnal so unless you're hiking at dusk or dawn or at night you probably won't see them. They are also pretty skittish of humans and will usually hear or smell you and then leave before you see them. So while your risk with hogs is probably minimal it's still nice to have some form of persuasion and I'm not sure the G-17 is enough, especially with HP bullets.

We don't have bears around here so I can't give a valid opinion. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

[snakeman]

I would probably go for a 357 for that purpose. Load it with 158 grain hard cast lead and it will do the trick. A 45 acp with a mix of fmj's and hollow points would also do well. Another one is the taurus judge loaded with 3" 000 buckshot. This load is devastating and delivers several hits on target with each shot.

[mdauben]

Another one is the taurus judge loaded with 3" 000 buckshot. This load is devastating and delivers several hits on target with each shot.
Have you tried this load on hogs? I'm curious becuase I have read a lot of critisism of .410 buckshot loads out of the Judge for lack of penetration, which would seem especially critical with trying to stop a charging porker.

[scaatylobo]

PLEASE talk to those that shoot and kill wild boar/hogs.

They are VERY hard to kill and DANGEROUS,even moreso when wounded.

The very least I would carry [ and do ] in such country is a .357 loaded with Buffalo Bore 158 grain .

I generally carry a Ruger super blk hawk with Buffalo Bore 305 grain HARD cast lead.

And have taken boar,I have to admit I am not happy without a long gun if there is really a good chance of taking them .

Saw one take 6 rounds of .44 mag from a 6" revolver - then finally stopped.

[Certaindeaf]

Shot placement is critical. Probably most hog are in the 200 pound range. Some are bigger.. kinda like humans. I normally carry a heavyish bonded +P or better in a full-size 9 on the street and often, in the woods, for most things, I use pretty heavy hardcast by me SWC's driven about as hot as possible in the same gun.
If I was hunting them (well, I've hunted them with that rig with great results) a .357 or better might be the call.. it's all about where you hit anything.

[481]

Hello all. My son and I have begun to camp and do a little hiking together on a mountian near where we live. I typically carry a glock 17 or my little Smith and Wesson 422 22lr pistol to deal with coyotes and wild dogs and venomous snakes if necessary. Over the last several years the feral hog population has exploded around my part of north Georgia. We also have a decent amount of blackbears in the area we frequent. It has me wondering if the glock 17 is enough. I typically load 124 gr winchester pdx in it with a spare mag handy. I was wondering what you guys would recommend. Just looking for a "just in case gun" that I can keep handy while fishing, hiking , etc.

It's probably not, but if you are "stuck" with a Glock 17 'cause it's all that you have, I'd say go with the Federal AE 147 gr. FMJFN @ 1000 fps- it oughtta be good for about 32.10" of soft tissue penetration- plus the bullet's meplat (~0.25") will increase its ability to damage soft tissue over that of the typical FMJRN.

If you can swing it, I'd recommend a .44 300 gr. HCSWC @ 1200-1250 fps which will provide greater tissue damage due to its greater width while still being capable of 48.10" to 49.20" of soft tissue penetration.

[hardluk1]

You are not likely going to stumble up on a hog but would probably could defend your self well enought with a load like this- https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=225

Just remember you need to stay on your game. Bears ?? get a can of bear spray and take with you. I sed a 357for about 20 years on hogs and never found that I was under guns but did not use HP ammo. Speer 170gr flat point sp or 180gr hardcast will punch through both shoulders or head to tail when loaded fairly hot. I have shoot them at 5feet as they go by looking to hook you. I had little fear back then. Today if I here hogs grunting i would tend to stop , look and try to stirt around them. Bears unless hurt or with younguns they will work to avoid you . Even then if paying attention a sow will woof at you as a warning. bear spray first , bullets if needed. Just pay attention in the woods today for critters or nut jobs out there.

[threefortyduster]

I'd put the heaviest bullet you have in your gun. Hogs can be taken with most, personally, I carry a .357 with either 158 gr soft points or 140 gr LeverEvolutions.

I don't feel undergunned with those, and didn't feel undergunned when my semi auto .40 was go to woods sidearm (because it was my only handgun).

[critter]

I've shot some hogs with my 4" GP100 using reloads with 180 gr XTP's. Got plenty of penetration and good expansion (short distances). I think that would do me.

[Double Naught Spy]

Feral hog attacks outside of people hunting them, trapping them, or pestering them in some manner are exceptionally rare. Given the other wildlife in your area, I would carry for protection against something more apt to be a problem than hogs and if you carry for a threat more dangerous than hogs, then hogs will be covered by your weapon decision.

Think about it. How many news accounts in the US do you know about where feral hogs have attacked people for no reason versus how may people and Youtube vids there are for people being "attacked" by feral hogs that the are trying to manhandle after their hog dogs got them, are working them in trapped, where the hog is in a snare, or where the hog is being pestered first. In short, if you don't do any of those things, you'll probably need to worry more about the sky falling on you than being attacked by a hog.

[Certaindeaf]

You could go all muay thai on them.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=409071

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

I would move to 147 grain softpoints in the Glock and not worry ! With hogs it is all about shot placement a 9mm in the right place will kill them just as dead as anything else . I shot one of about 150 lbs a couple years ago . He was quartering away and I was 10 ft up a tree stand . At 30 yards with a 300 grain jhp from a 454 casull . I shot and he ran off like I had cleanly missed , I found him dead about 50 yards away in the palmettos. When butchered we found his heart destroyed along with both lungs and a broken front leg on the exit side . If yo want them to drop right now it has to be brain or spine shot . They are tough and resilient, but not bullet proof !Seen one shot kills with 9mm , 40 cal , 45 cal , .357 mag and 22mag . The right spot is the right spot . Kevin

[The Lone Haranguer]

There is nothing wrong with being prepared, but I've never heard of unprovoked attacks on humans by wild swine. I worry a lot more about two-legged creatures.

[Texan Scott]

Ah, Georgia... I've actually pulled a gun twice in deadly earnest there- surprisingly, never in the ATL. Drugs do odd things to people. That would be my worry- banjo playing meth addicts. Pigs are tougher, but probably less dangerous.
Consider trading your g17 for a g22. Use the hottest 180gr JHP you can find. You'll be better armed and not even have to trade holsters.

[scaatylobo]

I have to ask if you have ever shot pig or better yet boar.

You dont have to worry about shooting through them as they are almost as tough as rhino,for their size.

Getting a bullet into them is tough enough,and I have seen rounds to the head that did NOTHING as they did not penetrate.

[ritepath]

My BIL killed one a few years back with his service G23. He said the first two shots it didn't really pay much attention to, then on the third it turned and run about 40 yards before expiring.

It was standing at the base of his front steps and his dog was at the top of the steps in a mexican standoff. He shot it at about 6 yards distance from just to the side of the steps.

[Ak.Hiker]

You could keep your Glock 17 and upgrade the loads for deeper penetration than your JHP carry loads. The Buffalo Bore 124 grain +P+ FP as well as the Double Tap 147 grain FMJFP would be possible options.

[Greg528iT]

why do people "think" that the bullet has to go end to end

when thinking about a wild boar, I would want a load that would go thru if hit in the chest and came out the butt, cause I'll be aiming center mass as it charges.. and if I hit it's skull I would want it to penetrate not glance off if it was not perfectly centered.

[mavracer]

Wild boar are about as stealthy as a Harley. Just pay a little attention and they're easily avoided.

[Double Naught Spy]

Around here, we have what I affectionately call "stealth hogs." As a sounder, they make a lot of noise, USUALLY, especially if they are eating. However, boars can appear out of nowhere and have done so many times during my limited number of hunting episodes. On more that one occaion, I have been looking one way and when I turned back to look the other way, a hog had appeared at the feeder that was not there only seconds before. On another occasion, I was under a feeder in the middle of the night, checking for sign before getting a stand when I heard some leaves crunch. A small sounder of about 20 had walked to within 15 yards of me without making noise and continued to remain fairly quiet as I retreated and they continued to advance, until I shot the biggest sow and then all hell broke loose as hogs ran in every direction through the woods.

Hogs can be plenty silent when they want to be.

[BSA1]

Well in regards to Post #6 I have actually hunted wild hogs.

I have had only one hog ever charge me. Some friends and myself where bored and decided it would be fun to try to catch some piglets in the pasture. Well we finally caught one by it's rear legs and it started squealing loudly. Mama, who was previously hidden in the bush took exception to us messin with her babies and came charging out of the bushes with her jaws popping. That was all it took for us to let go of the piglet and clear out of the pasture in record time.

What I have seen is wounded hogs run towards hunter looking for a escape route. There is a big difference in trying to get away from someone shooting you vs. trying to attack the s.o.b.

I agree that hogs can absorb a lot of poorly placed bullets and run away rapidly. They have a layer of fat that swells out plugging the bullet hole and not leaving a blood trail.
I like lots of penetration especially for a less than perfect shot on a moving hog.

This reminds I going to spend next week in hog country so I had better throw a magnum in the warbag.

[BSA1]

What about about the wasted energy of rifle rounds? They punch all the way though.

[481]

What about about the wasted energy of rifle rounds? They punch all the way though.

It is not a waste of energy- "entry" and "exit" wounds are the desired effect/perfromance in hunting (and especially big/dangerous game) ammunition.

[Double Naught Spy]

But we aren't talking about hunting. We are talking about stopping an aggressive animal. Hunters like the entry and exit wound becuase of the increased possibility of a good blood trail so that they may locate shot game that doesn't immediately drop. Problem is, shot game often runs quite far and can have considerable power left before dying, even when mortally wounded. As with self defense against humans, the real goal isn't to kill the aggressor, but to stop the aggressor as fast as possible.

Hogs just aint that fast or dangerous, guys. It's a myth, intended to make the gullible "think" that a hog hunter is Tarzan, very bad man. :-)

Since you have been working with domestic hogs, maybe they are not that fast. They are bred for weight and are sluggish. Feral hogs have been clocked at 30 mph. That is still pretty fast.

[BSA1]

It is not a waste of energy- "entry" and "exit" wounds are the desired effect/perfromance in hunting (and especially big/dangerous game) ammunition.

I agree.

But we aren't talking about hunting. We are talking about stopping an aggressive animal. Hunters like the entry and exit wound becuase of the increased possibility of a good blood trail so that they may locate shot game that doesn't immediately drop. Problem is, shot game often runs quite far and can have considerable power left before dying, even when mortally wounded. As with self defense against humans, the real goal isn't to kill the aggressor, but to stop the aggressor as fast as possible.

And IMHO that theory is a bunch of hogwash. :-)

[481]

But we aren't talking about hunting. We are talking about stopping an aggressive animal.

Hunting, stopping an agressive animal- where's the distinction? Either way, we are talking about stopping an animal in both cases.

Both acts involve shooting an animal- if a hunter shoots a charging Cape Buffalo/wild boar/mountain lion/black bear- at what point does it become 'not hunting'? Does hunting only involve shooting sedate, relaxed animals? I think not.

[oldandslow]

As DNS said there is a different purpose between shooting at a hunted animal and one that is menacing you. The hunted animal should be dispatched quickly with as little post-shot movement so it can be recovered quickly. The goal of shooting at a belligerant animal is to scare or wound it so its attack is stopped quickly. What happens to the animal is irrelevant.

best wishes- oldandslow

[mavracer]

Hunting, stopping an agressive animal- where's the distinction? Either way, we are talking about stopping an animal in both cases.
If the animal is broadside 100 yards away it won't matter iff he runs 50 yards before he stops. If he's 20 yards and running at you, 50 yards gives him 30 yards worth of dancing on your butt.

[JShirley]

When I was doing a lot of camping and hiking in Georgia, I carried a Glock 23 loaded with 155 grain XTPs.

Your Glock 17 is a fine choice. I'd carry 124 grain Gold Dots, make sure your holster allows a smooth, fast draw, practice consistently, and call it good.


John

[smokey30725]

Thanks for all the replies guys. They have been very helpful. I think I might purchase a compact 357 in the near future and rely on my glock until then. Probably going to keep my 12 ga shotgun in camp. I realize that the chances of an attack are very remote, but just like wearing my seatbelt or keeping fire extenguishers at home, I feel that luck favors the prepared. And since one or both of my kids are going to be with me, I want to leave nothing to chance.

[JShirley]

Your Glock 17, with good controlled-expansion ammunition, is preparation enough. You should probably consider ballistics of a short-barreled revolver vs. the 4.5" barrel of that Glock 17, firing a bullet that's only .002" difference in diameter.

You should combine that with a realistic assessment of your threats, which does not actually include wild boars sneaking up on you. :rolleyes: Wild dogs and humans are much likelier threats.

[481]

Hunting, stopping an agressive animal- where's the distinction?


If the animal is broadside 100 yards away it won't matter iff he runs 50 yards before he stops. If he's 20 yards and running at you, 50 yards gives him 30 yards worth of dancing on your butt.

You missed the point. As I said in the second sentence of my post- either way, we are talking about stopping an animal in both cases.

[mavracer]

You missed the point. As I said in the second sentence of my post- either way, we are talking about stopping an animal in both cases.
Hey I gave it a shot if you still don't understand the distinction I can't help you. Hopefully it doesn't hurt too bad if you ever have to figure it out for yourself.

[Water-Man]

Smokey,

I live in your neck-of-the-woods and, so far, haven't been bothered by hogs or bear.

But, you're right about being prepared. What is unlikely can turn into likely in a flash.

I carry a Ruger GP-100 loaded with Buffalo Bore 180gr. Hard Cast. Don't bother getting a short barreled .357 for the woods. Your G17, with the right ammo, is just as good. Buy a 4" or 6".

Have fun with the family.

[Double Naught Spy]

You missed the point. As I said in the second sentence of my post- either way, we are talking about stopping an animal in both cases.

mavracer is sort of right, but I will try to re-explain. It isn't about whether or not the animal is stopped, but when. That is a HUGE point in self defense with firearms. Too many bad guys and bad animals get stopped by a shot, but still manage to harm or kill the hunter/good guy.

Also, hunting isn't about stopping an animal from doing something. It is about KILLING an animal. You would not butch a live animal that was simply "stopped" would you? I think not. Self defense doesn't care if the person/animal is alive or dead so long as they have stopped their aggressive activities.

Hunters have the luxury of picking and choosing their shots at will and opting not to shoot if they don't like the target being presented to them. In self defense, that isn't always an option.

Hunting, stopping an agressive animal- where's the distinction? Either way, we are talking about stopping an animal in both cases.

LOL, most of the time, hunters are not shooting aggressive animals. Most of the time, huntings are shooting animals that are just going about their normal activities. Usually when hunters shoot aggressive animals, it is because they have done something to make the animal turn aggressive such as by releasing chase and catch dogs against it or have already wounded it or one of its brethren.
http://healdsburg.patch.com/articles/hunter-attacked-by-boar-at-lake-sonoma
http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=2081&cid=84

These two examples are great. The hunters hunted and the animals, which previously posed no immediate threat, did so after being shot. In the second case, it sounds like a mortal shot, but the hunter didn't let the animal bleed out before trying to find it and the animal simply defended itself.

[smokey30725]

Thanks Water-Man. I live in the Walker County area and hogs are starting to show up from the Whitfield and Gordon County areas. Like I stated above, I know the likelihood of a hog or bear attack is very rare but I take every precaution I can when it comes to my kids. I would never have thought that I would have a large pitbull come charging out of the brush at me and my son, only to stop barking and roll over for a belly scratch, but that happened last spring. Critters can be unpredictable!

[RinkRat]

A 4" 357mag GP100 Ruger. Or better yet, a 10mm G20 Glock. Loaded with some Hard Cast Buffalo Bore :D

[DPris]

The Judge with buck would be an absolutely idiotic choice for large pigs.
The velocity is greatly reduced from a .410 shotgun (which nobody would recommend in itself as a first choice on a sizable hog) and the pattern spreads too rapidly from a rifled barrel.
You'd lose penetration, and you'd have to be way too close to get the full charge of buck into the critter.

A need to defend against a wild hog is rare, but we're talking about the possibility, and in that event you want a much more realistic & effective defensive tool than the Judge.
Denis

[Water-Man]

Hey smokey,

I know where you are. When I was a little younger I dated a gal from Calhoun.

I'm East of you now in Union County.

Take care.

[Certaindeaf]

thru the critter? If he's charging you, you are shooting at his front, guys! I don't WANT more than 10" of penetration, ever, in a handgun load, cause if I can get more penetration than that, it means that I got little or no expansion of the bullet. Nothing that is adquately controlable in rapidfire has enough energy to give you both good expansion and lots of penetration.

after you pierce the chest,..
"Ever"? Even without hitting bone? Very often, to get 10" into the chest, you have to break bones.. often very heavy bones.
I'll take a SWC that'll break bones, penetrate through the vitals and still make a big hole every single time.
Heck, a good performer/stopper would be one that broke the near shoulder, went through the vitals and then destroyed the off-side/far pelvis, all while creating a permanent full caliber size hole or bigger.

[481]

Hey I gave it a shot if you still don't understand the distinction I can't help you. Hopefully it doesn't hurt too bad if you ever have to figure it out for yourself.

You can parse it however you want- you still missed the point.

If you get it, no explanation is necessary. If you don't get it no explanation is possible. Try not to let it ruin your day.

[481]

mavracer is sort of right...

What a creative way of saying that he is wrong. Have to remember that one. ;)


It isn't about whether or not the animal is stopped, but when.

Both examples (hunting an animal and stopping an animal) demand this. A quick "stop" is desired in both pursuits.

Also, hunting isn't about stopping an animal from doing something.

Yes, it is. It is about brininging the animal down as quickly (which is the most humane way to do it) as possible.

You would not butch a live animal that was simply "stopped" would you?

No idea what to make of this- how do you butch an animal? Is that some sort of haircut? :confused:

LOL, most of the time, hunters are not shooting aggressive animals.

And sometimes they do. And it is all part of hunting. Better have a bullet that goes all the way through.

[DPris]

Stopping a hunted animal instantly is a goal, stopping an attacking animal instantly is an imperative.
The two situations are quite different.

Yes, the humane thing to do in hunting an animal at a distance is to prevent its suffering.
In a defensive case with a charged-up & angry animal quite capable of causing you severe injury at close proximity, the humane thing to do is your absolute utmost in ensuring the critter doesn't cause YOU suffering.

A deer or elk standing there on a hill 75 yards away has no adrenaline rush, no urge to attack, and will only run away if your shot is a wounding hit. You can track it at leisure and finish the job if it's still alive when you find it again.

A charging boar does have an adrenaline rush, it's close enough to pose a very real threat (IF IT DOES OCCUR), it's equipped with the ability to cause injury or death, and if it's charging that's most likely what it has on its mind.
If your first shot only wounds it, the thing most likely won't run away, it'll most likely continue on if it can, and it'll be even closer by the time you get your second shot off. If you even have time for a second shot.

I don't consider a 9mm with ANY load to be sufficient for the purposes of this discussion, but it's deteriorating into a name-calling derivative of a caliber war, and it's gotten unproductive.
Make your own choices.
Denis

[FMF Doc]

Pig are NASTY! If pig and bear are going to be the major threat, then you should carry something better suited to deal with them. I would reccomend .44mag and up. If you have something else, .357 mag, 41mag/spec, 44spec, you can probably make due, but ask youself this, if a pig came by and I had to shoot it, what hand gun would I want in my hand...then get that! (and for all you who say rifle/ shotgun...get real. Obviously the long arms are always the best way to go, but who goes grocery shopping with and AR-15 on their back? No sense going to the woods if you can't enjoy it doing what you want, which sometimes precludes a long gun.) Also, a good 10mm auto with Buffalo Bore 220gr Hardcast flat nosed rounds should do just fine. I know many people who carry G20 with that for bear defense...should work well on pigs.

[PTMCCAIN]

Glock 20, 10mm.
Buffalo Bore, 220 grain hard cast bullets.

'nuff said.

[asia331]

The javelina I've run into on my hikes have tended to be pretty shy about humans. That doesn't mean a boar might be having a "bad hair" day and while my in town EDC is a 1911, I carry a 4" GP100 in the field with 158gr hard cast lead flat pointed slugs on the trails.

[Double Naught Spy]

The javelina I've run into on my hikes have tended to be pretty shy about humans.

While interesting, the closest non-zoo javelina to where the OP will be spending time are some 850 miles away. Javelina, while called pigs, hogs, boars, etc., are not actually in the same family as the pigs the OP is discussing.

[Certaindeaf]

^ I'd say a rabid possum going for your giblets is "dangerous". Matter of fact I've seen grown men scream like little girls under such situations.. quite understandable but nevertheless funny as heck.

[Double Naught Spy]

^ I'd say a rabid possum going for your giblets is "dangerous".

LOL, you likely won't ever find a rabid opossum though any mammal may carry rabies. Rabies in opossums is almost non-existent because of their low body temperatures.

[JROC]

Get a G20.(I recommend a G20SF)

Awesome gun. Awesome round. I love mine. Make sure you use REAL 10mm loads like Underwood Ammo. The other day I shot some DT and Underwood Ammo back to back that was rated almost the same and was your basic JHP rounds, and the Underwood Ammo was noticeably hotter. It is my new go to 10mm ammo now that Swampfox is no longer produced.

[Certaindeaf]

LOL, you likely won't ever find a rabid opossum though any mammal may carry rabies. Rabies in opossums is almost non-existent because of their low body temperatures.
Huh, I hear you. Didn't know that but I'll still protect my giblets!
I've seen more guys get "charged" by possums coming out of burn barrels or brushpiles they just seem rabid. It's really good when they fall down while backpedaling and the little blind vermin just keeps coming for them nads and they don't have their .308 autorifle.
talk about squealing!
good times

http://www.allpics4u.com/www/slike/animals/animal2.jpg