1851 Marshall


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unknwn
October 11, 2012, 08:33 PM
Does anyone out there have the Pietta 1851 Marshall?
How does the polished STEEL frame/barrel/cylinder ect. hold up to normal use?
Does it possess the "tail" that most other Pietta '51s grip frames are graced with/suffer from ? I wonder because the .44 cal London I have does NOT have that over-belling of the grip, so maybe? this "Marshall" version is different also.
How bold (deep?) is the engraving of these fantasy model of 1851?

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Fingers McGee
October 11, 2012, 10:00 PM
Have 3 of them, two in .44 and one in .36.

They hold up to normal use just fine, and are very rust resistant. I've left mine dirty after a match for a couple weeks with no adverse effects

Yes, they have the normal Pietta bell shaped grips.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/DSCN1347.jpg

They are photo engraved.

Fiv3r
October 11, 2012, 10:13 PM
I am so on the fence with these gorgeous shooters. I've been saving cabelas points for over a year and am getting close a new bp revolver. I've told myself i need a Walker, but an ornate and practical gun calls to me. Beautiful guns.

unknwn
October 11, 2012, 10:34 PM
I'm damned tempted to order up a pair tomorrow.
Is there anything that I ought to consider -or- look out for (beyond the normal bolt & arbor stuff) ? I'm going to put in a request for consecutive serial numbers, but beyond that?
Do the nipples come through in stainless?
I've also toyed with an idea of blueing? or something to darken the engraved areas and repolish the high spots for contrast, maybe defarb in the process.
What about just defarbing the lettering & other ugly marks? since it seems as if it will just require some judicious polishing to get things back in order again?
I've read that the cylinders will fit up to the 1860 frames, so I'm considering buying one for my London. Do you think it will blue up nicely (by an experienced gunsmith's hot blue tanks) as is? Or will the 'smith need to spend more time on a (new) polished white steel half fluted cylinder to make it look good?

Jim, West PA
October 11, 2012, 11:04 PM
Them are some beautiful shootin arns Fingers.
All that's missin is some silver and or ivory stars in the stocks.

Hellgate
October 12, 2012, 01:05 AM
I've had two of them and they are "hard" little guns. The steel seems harder than most, is not truly stainless but mine never did rust. An early manufactured one I had shot way off to one side so I got rid of it. The second one I had was a fine little gun but I just didn't use it that much other than for a light carry gun for deer hunting (finishing shot). Did its job. I had a Texan look at one of mine and remark that it makes a great "barbeque gun" to which I inquired for an explanation. He said that in Texas everybody that carries often have a shiny, fancy little gun that is taken to barbeques where everyone shows off their "jewelry". i.e. their barbeque guns. I liked mine but just didn't shoot it that much so I let someone else enjoy it. They are fun guns. Yes, they have the belled grip which to me was a minus.

Foto Joe
October 12, 2012, 11:23 AM
Is there anything that I ought to consider -or- look out for (beyond the normal bolt & arbor stuff)? I'm going to put in a request for consecutive serial numbers, but beyond that?

Good luck on the consecutive numbers, it's worth a try but I wouldn't bet on it.

Do the nipples come through in stainless?

The gun itself is "Polished" not stainless. The nipples will also be simply "in the white" rather than stainless, although....you can easily replace the nipples with stainless if you want. I'd personally shoot it with the stock nipples first and see if I really "needed" to replace them.

I've also toyed with an idea of blueing? or something to darken the engraved areas and repolish the high spots for contrast, maybe defarb in the process.
What about just defarbing the lettering & other ugly marks? since it seems as if it will just require some judicious polishing to get things back in order again?
I think that you're going to find that a gun "in the white" will develope a nice patina after a while that will give it a certain character. The nice part about the patina is that if you don't like it just polish it off. If you decide to de-farb the amount of polishing it takes to smooth things out is relatively minor if you use the burnishing technique to de-farb. I rough polish with 600grit emory paper then a Dremel with two-stage polishing compound.

unknwn
October 12, 2012, 02:01 PM
Thanks all for the replies. A couple of follow-ups & clarifications...

"...if you use the burnishing technique to de-farb. I rough polish with 600grit emory paper then a Dremel with two-stage polishing compound...."

Is that "600 grit...two stage polishing compound" an example of the burnishing technique you mentioned? Or can I expect to find a more involved explanation elsewhere?

While perusing results from searching other sites is where I came across the reference to these guns coming from the Pietta with stainless nipples. Is there any good way to differentiate nipples that are "in the white" versus stainless ?
Since my 1858 stainless gun came with stainless nipples I guess I have good comparison material, but does it all boil down to how "hard" the examples stick to a magnet?
Maybe If I try and cold blue the two different nipples and see if it takes?

Again, through the wisdom gleaned from some of the other sites I (and here) have found that everyone who has first hand experience with them says that the guns are "hard" and fairly impervious to corrosion. Some of the respondents speculated that the metal was possibly even of a higher nickel content than the run of the mill Pietta C&B materials used.

Looking at Finger's guns is about enough to convince me that the "patina" effect will be enough to satisfy my lust for that contrast I mentioned before, and Heaven knows, a good bit less labor intensive than my earlier suggestions, -but- , how long did that take to happen? Any pointers or a technique to strip a half a dozen years (or more) from that "natural" process.

So far as defarbing is concerned, how "over-the-top" is the unneccessary markings on these guns? The only photos you ever get to see of them only accentuate the "pretty" of that faux engraving and never the BP only/manf. name/ect?? that is too often stamped in not-so-innocuous areas.

Another question to Fingers would be:
Are the grips any better fitted on these "cream of the crop" guns than the others I've been recieving of late? Wood that is "proud" of the adjacent frame-work is an understatement as far as my last two new Piettas is concerned.
I've pretty much got no choice but to work on the grip of my .44 London because it aggravates the heel of my hand, much less the squared off area above the trigger loop & behind the frame verticle being quite high and uneven between the opposing sides. If the rest of that gun hadn't impressed me as much as it did I might have entertained an exchange.

I guess I'll just have to call and inquire on whether they will even try to provide consecutive serial numbers. If I can't get an affirmative I will order up just one, and after I'm satisfied with it's fit and finish, call and have them send out a second one if they are still available. If they had them in .36 caliber it would be a lot easier, I'd just get one of each.

arcticap
October 12, 2012, 02:22 PM
Click on the each photo to view it at full size:

1851 U.S. Marshal .44

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=129412&d=1287722134

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=129413&d=1287722167

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=129414&d=1287722186

It may be a long shot but this outfit says that the Pietta U.S. Marshal .36 may be available by special order:

http://fcsutler.com/fccwrevolvers.asp

Fingers McGee
October 12, 2012, 09:29 PM
I believe the patina effect you are talking about is the textural difference in the metal from the photoengraving. Not really darkening of the metal. The finish on these is a high polish heat treating. I'm not sure that trying to blue parts of it would be successful. The wood to metal fit on current manufactured Pietas is pretty darn good. I'd say recently made Marshalls would be the same. Mine were all made before 1999 (the two in the photo were 1996 and 1998 manufacture); but even then the wood to metal it was pretty good. My .36 cal '51 was made in 1994, and the .36 cal '61 model was made in 1990

Foto Joe
October 13, 2012, 09:11 AM
"...if you use the burnishing technique to de-farb. I rough polish with 600grit emory paper then a Dremel with two-stage polishing compound...."

"Burnishing" refers to the technique of moving metal back into the position that it was before stamp engraving. What I do is to use a cheap 4oz ballpeen hammer to do this. Using the ball end and holding the hammer head in my hand not the handle I simply tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, ad infinum ad nauseum.... In reality it doesn't take that long but keep in mind that it will look horrible before you polish it out. Strike lightly at an angle and be careful to use the side of the ball, especially if the cheap hammer has a pointy end on the ball or you'll cause more damage than good.

There's photos and a more involved explanation on this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632647

Looking at Finger's guns is about enough to convince me that the "patina" effect will be enough to satisfy my lust for that contrast I mentioned before, and Heaven knows, a good bit less labor intensive than my earlier suggestions, -but- , how long did that take to happen?

A polished "in the white" gun will take very little time to develope a patina, especially if you're using real Black Powder. It all depends upon how many times you shoot and clean it, more shooting equals quicker results.

unknwn
October 13, 2012, 10:47 AM
Both Fingers Mcgee (great photos) and Foto Joe (all that explanation) , and Arcticap (more photos & )have helped me tremendously these past couple of days.
The additions to my vocabulary and knowledge base will serve me exceptionally in this latest addition to my C&B revolver corral.
Thank you again for your time Gents' .

unknwn
October 13, 2012, 09:07 PM
Instead of the next day I waited two, but I called Cabelas and spoke to someone in thier gun department who was thoroughly helpful in recording my insistance for a pair of consecutive serial numbered 1851 Marshall revolvers.
Although they estimate delivery on the 23rd. I've always found that the package shows up early.
When I have gotten my booty, and have deemed them "mine" I will report back, hopefully, with photos.

Foto Joe
October 14, 2012, 10:49 AM
Unfortunately I can be too cynical for my own good once in a while. I wish you sincere good luck on the consecutive serial numbers and if anybody can make it happen I would think that it would be Cabela's.

CraigC
October 14, 2012, 11:48 AM
So typical of these threads, now I want one. Only I want to have a gated Kirst 1860 kit installed with an ejector, plus a dovetail front sight and have the whole thing nickeled. :rolleyes:

kbbailey
October 14, 2012, 12:16 PM
Cmon guys, dont you know there's a drought??
I gave one of my '58s to my nephew. Now I have an empty holster. How sad.

unknwn
October 14, 2012, 03:56 PM
"...good luck on the consecutive serial numbers and if anybody can make it happen I would think that it would be Cabela's..."

The Rep. at the gun desk at Cabelas read me back the comments that he input for me during the order process and he wrote " customer's interest in consecutive serial numbers is a requirement for two pieces, otherwise the order is to be readjusted to only one piece of that item number"
He also told me that the inventory level was high enough that the request should be no problem. He also agreed with me that fulfilling my request is as simple as reading the tags on the end of the boxes.
Holding them hostage for the sales depth might seem rough, but its got to be better than them eating the cost of return shipping and restocking for an excess item if someone decided to ignore the request. They ought to consider the multiple purchase a reward for some marginal additional effort.
Now I only need to hope for two good examples of the gun. Since the guns were considered "Special" and had extra pages devoted to them marked "Special" in thier terrificly expensive full-color catalogue, I'm a bit more confident of the quality control for these particular 1851s.
Also, I haven't had to reject/return a Pietta yet.

unknwn
October 18, 2012, 06:17 PM
Well, Foto Joe, I must thank you again for your best wishes to me on my quest for some consecutive serial numbered US Marshalls - "...good luck on the consecutive serial numbers and if anybody can make it happen I would think that it would be Cabela's..." - because my favorite Pietta retailer came through for me this time.
On top of it all, at least upon my initial inspection, it seems as if I have been sent a consecutive numbered pair of acceptable guns.
Though they are not without a couple of minor complaint points (the loading ram latches are a bit loose, and the grips have some proud wood in places) nothing so far would convince me to consider sending either one of them back.
Until after I've had opportunity to dismantle them for further scrutiny I'm willing to consider these "good to go".

Foto Joe
October 19, 2012, 09:29 AM
Very good, I don't think we can find very many folks who have bad things to say about Cabela's.

The loose latches kind of surprise me though and as you can guess they won't fix themselves. I've had more than one Colt's pattern gun actually deploy one of the little buggers off into the dirt when shooting, luckily I've managed to find the ones that wandered off. I can't give you a quick easy fix as I've always handed off the gun to somebody who calls themselves a gunsmith, some fixes were very good, others not so much.

I think that you'll find re-fitting the grips will be much easier but I recommend doing it "before" they get oil soaked from shooting and cleaning. The grips that I've re-fitted have actually come down to the proper elevation quite easily using fine grit sand paper (160+). I've worked with a lot of walnut but the stuff they use on these grips is a lot softer than the walnut I'm used to running through a molding table or saw.

Get some pictures of these things up if you haven't already 'cause as they say, "It didn't happen if there ain't no pics.":)

unknwn
October 19, 2012, 11:18 AM
Whilst I try to produce some photos worth splashin' on these threads (got a lot of catchin' up to do, ROAs, 1858s, and an ever growing stable of open tops) I thought that I'd clarify the "complaints" I bothered to mutter:
About those ram latches, It is not the catch on the underside of the barrel, it's the spring loaded part on the end of the ram itself. If its as much as .005" loose I might be overstating (just enough to allow a wiggle) , but loose they are never the less.
When I find out if I can get some appropriate spare retaining pins & springs I will take them apart and see if I can either file the oblong slot?( -or- is it a open-ended "U" groove?) a few thousandths longer or if I will have to silver solder a bit to the end of that pointed latch so that I can dress it back down to fitting tight as needed.
Do you think my latch idea is the proper pursuit, or maybe? I would be best to add a little material to the notch of the catch itself and then file/refit on that end of the "wiggle" room?
Any way it works out, I can get away with shooting them now, nothing is going to fall off. I just hate that there is that "imperfect" lurking in these new guns.
The fitting of the grips is the thing that I have reservations about. I wonder whether marking them with a pin point to show the excess so that I will remove from the frame before scraping?/sanding? -or- should I be wrapping the frame pieces with a tough tape to avoid scarring the metal while I reduce the wood when is still in place? Since I have a goodly selection of scrapers made for woodworking, I've got to wonder if they might be better suited than sandpaper? for knocking the "just enough" proud wood down to size.
What sort of finish is on these grips now? Is it a rubbed oil finish like I'm contemplating using? or will I need to strip the whole of the exterior of the grip before I go about rubbing in the ?? layers of Tru-Oil ?
I bought a life-time supply of Tru-Oil (32oz. for $13.78) on my last order from Sportmans Guide, so I guess I've committed to that for a protectant after my fitting exercises are finished. There just seemed a good many gun stocks in my stable that will benefit from that ole' tried & Tru (pardon the pun) gunstock finish, and it was just too hard to pass up the pricing for the product. (I'll just need to develop a method of storing the excess for posterity).
Any pointers concerning my up & coming "smoothing" of these two (& my .44 London) revolver complaints?

Foto Joe
October 19, 2012, 12:16 PM
As far as fitting the grips, I had the same dilemma the first time I did this.

I'd "start" with sandpaper while they are dis-mounted. It's easy enough to slide them back on to check the fit. I think that you'll find that they come down quite easily. Don't do what I did the first time and use a finish sander!:what: I didn't ruin anything but if I'd have NOT pulled away a second sooner I'd have learned an expensive lesson!:cuss:

There's no hurry on these to fit them so take your time. I think you're going to find that you are definitely going to have to remove all the finish from the grips before you use your Tru-Oil on them.

unknwn
October 19, 2012, 04:34 PM
So far as removing the original finish is concerned, would a chemical stripper be acceptable -or- am I better off just sanding it away?
The fitting of the grips is just a minor amount of sharp edge exactly where you don't want it, and the altogether unacceptable (and VERY uneven side-to side) excess height where the frame verticle meets the most forward flat plane of the grip.
Are these a true one-piece grip or are Pietta's version a glue-up?
I must say now that I've looked at them for a while, that it would have been nice if the wood grips between the two guns resembled the same species of wood. I have a -somewhat tiger-striped- & a bit more -sedate run-of-the-mill walnut- grain examples.
Does this "...softer than the walnut I'm used to..." take stain well or is it prone to splotchiness?
I guess that would be hard to tell since you said your guns were made a dozen or so years ago.
Anyone else out there have information about the foibles experienced with refinish of the more recent Pietta grip wood ?

I found a Date? code on both guns stamped just above the serial number that I'm fairly certain is " C 1 " .
Could any of you fine folks out there help with info on what year that denotes?

arcticap
October 19, 2012, 04:46 PM
I'd guess that's probably a "C I" for the year 2012.

Foto Joe
October 20, 2012, 08:59 AM
The finish comes off VERY easily with fine grit sand paper, I wouldn't waste my time with stripper. I don't have any information regarding "glue-up" grips but on the chance that they are it would be another reason to stay away from stripper, you don't want to have to put them back together. As far as the staining is concerned, the ones that I've done came out very even.

kbbailey
November 22, 2012, 01:30 PM
Mrs Claus is asking what I need for Christmas. I told her that an 1851 Marshall would be nice.
I will be doing somw informal competition, light plinking, targets, general fun stuff. If anyone has any comments or complaints about the '51 Marshall model.....speak now before Mrs kb puts her order in to the Pietta Elves.

unknwn
November 22, 2012, 03:10 PM
The only gripe I have about the pair I now own is the previously mentioned loading ram latch -end play/slop- . It was just enough for me to notice and decide to fix because it could have resulted in the ram unlatching & dropping due to inertia resulting from heavy loads.
Removal of the 1/16" pin holding the sliding catch from the end of the ram is the hardest part of fixing the problem. From there it was a simple matter if filing the open-ended groove a few-to-five thousandths deeper and then reassembling. That aforementioned pin is fragile (I bent the dog-c&@% out of mine, and when I discovered what the parts company wanted for it I improvised (made a new one from 1/16" pin stock provided by my gunsmith).

The price has since gone back up $50.00 from when I bought mine.
I have been watching them since and they haven't lowered the price that far again. Maybe they will before the year end holidays. But, who can tell? Even at $399 they consider the model "on Sale" , so you takes your chances if you were to decide to wait.
The spare cylinders have too gone to sale pricing since the early part of November.
I had to reject two that I ordered though due to poor machining of the arbor holes. We'll see if the replacements (due back to me early next week) are acceptable. The ones that came with the guns were perfect, along with one of the three that I ordered up after the fact. Go figure.
Surely would make for an especially nice Christmas gift. Here's to hoping you're lucky enough to receive it.

Foto Joe
November 22, 2012, 04:03 PM
They're a lot of fun, but what so is every other BP gun that I know of. About the only drawback is that SHORT loading lever but a shop rag for padding makes it a non-event.

Are these '51's in 36 or 44?

Hellgate
November 22, 2012, 11:56 PM
One final comment: You will probably want to make a "cheater" for that short rammer. I just took a 1-1.25" hardwood dowel (shovel handle, chair rung, etc.) and bored a 3/8" hole in one end about 3" deep. I also beveled the end with the hole a little bit so it would get closer to the barrel. It gives you some leverage and saves your hand when ramming. Some people have used a piece of aluminum pipe, heavy plastic tubing, garden hose, use your imagination.....

Fingers McGee
November 23, 2012, 12:04 AM
Are these '51's in 36 or 44?

They are more prevalent in .44; but they were also made in .36

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/100_1704.jpg

I use a length of tygon tubing as an extension on the short barrel revolvers. I use it on the long loading levers also to keep the latch from digging into the palm of my hand.

kbbailey
November 23, 2012, 11:29 PM
Apparently, there are different grades of engraving. I found a Marshall on another website (other than Cabelas) for $50 less. It had less engraving, but still a nice looking revolver. Pietta made.

MCgunner
November 24, 2012, 06:50 PM
I am so on the fence with these gorgeous shooters. I've been saving cabelas points for over a year and am getting close a new bp revolver. I've told myself i need a Walker, but an ornate and practical gun calls to me. Beautiful guns.

Me, too. :D I've been wondering about the polished steel. Good thread, thanks for posting!

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