NFA Engraving


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giggitygiggity
October 12, 2012, 12:57 AM
Hi, my ATF paperwork just cleared and I am going to be picking up a suppressed AR 9mm upper. I already have the lower. Do I have to get anything engraved on the lower? I know that with SBR's, you have to get the lower engraved. However, my upper is integrally suppressed and the barrel length is 16". Is there still an engraving requirement?

On another note, because I won't be around for quite some time to go to the dealer to pick up the upper, can I have my father who I gave Power of Attorney to pick up the upper on my behalf? Thanks.

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Telekinesis
October 12, 2012, 02:50 AM
No, you only have to engrave the receiver of a SBR if you are the manufacturer (ie: the lower receiver is on a Form 1). With your integrally suppressed upper, you shouldn't have to worry about engraving assuming you purchased it from a manufacturer/dealer SOT and it is on a Form 4.

From what I understand, power of attorney does not trump federal registration of NFA weapons. The only way your father would be able to pick up the upper for you would be if you registered the suppressor to a trust/corp and both of you were listed as trustees/officers. The only instance I know of where a person can legally have control of a weapon registered to another individual is when serving as executor/executrix of an estate containing registered weapons (which means the owner/person named on the registration is deceased).

I would try to pick up the suppressor as soon as possible. The first time shooting through a new suppressor is always a lot of fun; but also, while its understandable that it may take several days to pick up the can, the ATF generally frowns on SOTs holding weapons for significant periods of time after they have received the new registration paperwork.

MasterSergeantA
October 12, 2012, 11:56 AM
And if you DO pick up the upper assembly before departing on your sojourn, you must ensure that no one (including your father) can access the upper while you are gone. Another reason why a trust might be in your future.

Oh, by the way, you are permitted to engrave the lower if you care to for personal reasons. It simply isn't required, as Telekinesis already explained.

giggitygiggity
October 12, 2012, 10:08 PM
Thanks for the input. So how do these trusts work? From my understanding, a trust gives ownership to everyone listed on the trust; is that correct? Can I set up a trust after I have the suppressor or was I required to set it up before I submitted the ATF paperwork and everything? Also, do the people who I want to be listed on the trust need to do anything special (fingerprinting, ATF paperwork, etc.)? I plan to purchase more suppressors and machineguns and I want to be smart about it and allow as many immediate family members to access the weapons as possible. Thanks.

Telekinesis
October 13, 2012, 12:14 AM
The trust is pretty simple to do. The best way is to have it set up by a lawyer so that it addresses everything you want it to (in case you have any personal requirements for it), but a quicken trust is cheaper and works just as well (at least as far as getting the weapons registered to the trust).

Because a trust is a separate legal entity, the weapon must be registered to the trust itself (and not you) and therefore the trust is technically the owner, it just allows all trustees to possess and use the weapon. This means that you have to submit another Form 4 and $200 tax to transfer the suppressor from you to the trust. The positive side of you already having it registered in your name is that you can keep the weapon and still use it while you're waiting for the trust's Form 4 to clear (however no one else can possess it outside of your presence before the trust's paperwork comes back).

None of the trustees are required to submit fingerprints, photos, or undergo a background check, but whichever trustee picks up the weapon from the SOT will have to fill out a 4473 just like if you were buying a title 1 firearm.

While the trust is technically the "owner" of the NFA weapons, as grantor you have the ability to amend the trust whenever you like, so that means that you can add or remove other people/trustees as you wish. This is useful in many situations like if you are single and get married, have children you want to be able to possess the weapon, or have a friend who you trust enough to borrow the weapon. Another advantage is that if you have a falling out with a trustee (divorce, etc.) the grantor can also remove the trustee and they will no longer be able to legally possess the weapons. No trustee has "ownership rights" over the items in the trust.

kimbershot
October 13, 2012, 09:06 AM
just did a trust yesterday. you can employ a lawyer or if you are familiar with the legal jargon, you can do your own. i went the trust route after moving south and did my own--as local leo isn't keen on sign off for a form 4.

the key to a trust is that everything has to be legal--intent, purpose, goal.
1. you must be able to posses a legal weapon
2. state must allow the weapon/can
3. anyone involved in the trust must be able to control or accept the weapon--grantor (you), trustee (you), another trustee, successor trustee, beneficiary
4. grantor (settlor), can't be a beneficiary.
5. trust must be written to incorporate the specific legal "code" for the state you live in--ie sc has 11 specific requirements.

you can keep it simple without all the legal jargon and keep it specific to nfa items. if you deal with real estate, investments etc--you should do the lawyer route.

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