Help me decide which 9mm 1911


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Oldnoob
October 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
Debating which 9mm 1911 I should go with. This will be for range target shooting only. Most important to me will be the accuracy and out of factory trigger.

Kimber Stainless Target 9mm
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/411534042.jpg

Lawman
http://www.brazoscustom.com/Images/sti_guns/Lawman5_.jpg

RangeMaster
http://www.brazoscustom.com/Images/sti_guns/rangemaster.gif

Their price around my neck of woods will be: Kimber $1400, Lawman $1650, RangeMaster $1765 OTD. Part of me is yelling "just get a RIA($600) and do a trigger job!". But I think it's time for me to step up and own a $1k plus pistol.

If there is any other 9mm 1911 you guys can recommend to me, please feel free.

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pikid89
October 12, 2012, 11:26 AM
I dont think dropping over a grand on a pistol just because "its time to own a $1000+ pistol" is a very good reason, but hey, this is america, and you are free to do whatever you please with your dollars. Me, id put that 400-800 saved into ammo or a press to feed my new cheaper gun that does litterally nothing different than an 1800 dollar gun. Imo once your past the 400-600$ point on pistols, any thing over that carries no advantage until you hit the 2000+ point and can get a les baer or a ed brown or the like

Bozwell
October 12, 2012, 11:49 AM
I dont think dropping over a grand on a pistol just because "its time to own a $1000+ pistol" is a very good reason, but hey, this is america, and you are free to do whatever you please with your dollars. Me, id put that 400-800 saved into ammo or a press to feed my new cheaper gun that does litterally nothing different than an 1800 dollar gun. Imo once your past the 400-600$ point on pistols, any thing over that carries no advantage until you hit the 2000+ point and can get a les baer or a ed brown or the like
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of pistols in the $1000-2000 range that are going to be much nicer guns to own and shoot than a $400-600 gun. If nothing else, custom work can push the price of the gun into this range pretty easily, and can really transform a gun from the way it came out of the factory. If your only criteria for a gun is combat accuracy and that it goes bang most of the time, $400-600 is sufficient. At least for me, once you've shot a properly tuned custom firearm, it's hard to go back to a factory configuration.

Greg528iT
October 12, 2012, 12:06 PM
Not a big fan of the squared off trigger guard of the Range Master. Either of the other 2.

creeper1956
October 12, 2012, 12:19 PM
Another gun to consider, which I do not own but have had the opportunity to shoot is the Sig Sauer "1911 Traditional Match Elite". The only real break from tradition here is that it uses a external extractor.
Sight picture, accuracy and function (this was a new pistol) was quite good while the trigger pull was a little better than average for a production gun.

If on the other hand you're a person that doesn't equate Sig Sauer with 1911... I understand fully. My brain still has a hard time with it as well. :p

C

tarosean
October 12, 2012, 12:28 PM
I went to pick up a gun i bought online last night (92c type M) and I ended up testing a Heinie Nighthawk in 9. WOW. A few more bills than what your looking at but well worth it IMO. Made my "new to me" gun feel like a hunk of junk.

bannockburn
October 12, 2012, 12:36 PM
oldnoob

Not sure if all these are on the California Approved list, but there's a decent selection, and a wide range of prices, when it comes to a 9mm. M1911:

Kimber Target II- $1094 (all listed at Buds Gunshop)
RIA Tactical- $414
S&W PRO- $1207
Springfield Armory Service Target- $884

Then there's all the STI models:

Spartan- $644 (suggested retail price)
Trojan- $1121
Trojan (6" bbl.)- $1434
Lawman- $1433
RangeMaster- $1536
Sentry- $1613
TargetMaster- $1712

So if you feel the need for a $1K+ 9mm. M1911 there's certainly quite a few to choose from. Hope you find what you're looking for and let us know which one you've chosen and how well it shoots.

Jim Watson
October 12, 2012, 12:46 PM
I would get the STI Sentry, if on the roster.
A higher grade gun than Kimber, better sights than Lawman, regular dust cover required for my use in IDPA.

I would order it from Brazos or Dawson and pay their tuneup fee for a 3 lb trigger pull and feedway cleanup.

I would get Tripp Cobramags, being sure to tell Virgil that they were for an STI.

smalls
October 12, 2012, 01:10 PM
I thought I saw something about STI not selling guns in CA, as a company policy, to stand up against their guns laws?

Jim Watson
October 12, 2012, 03:57 PM
Oops.
No STIs on the California Roster. Maybe they are following the Barrett Protocol.

You may very well be limited to the Kimber. See the Roster at
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/safeguns_resp.asp

Or get a stock Springfield and have it upgraded by Springfield Custom or an independent gunsmith.

Oldnoob
October 12, 2012, 04:00 PM
Don't need to worry about the Nazi Roster. I'm going to SSE.

Jim Watson
October 12, 2012, 05:34 PM
Ah, ok.
Back to STI Sentry then.

I just hope the Authorities don't pinch your fingers when they slam that loophole.

smalls
October 12, 2012, 05:50 PM
I'm still a little fuzzy on this single shot exemption deal. It's my understanding that if a company wants to get on the roster, they submit a gun to be drop tested, so that it won't fire, correct? But to be single shot exempted, do you submit a gun to be drop tested?

Oldnoob
October 12, 2012, 05:53 PM
I'm still a little fuzzy on this single shot exemption deal. It's my understanding that if a company wants to get on the roster, they submit a gun to be drop tested, so that it won't fire, correct? But to be single shot exempted, do you submit a gun to be drop tested?

No. SSE does not require any test.

Oldnoob
October 12, 2012, 05:56 PM
Ah, ok.
Back to STI Sentry then.

I just hope the Authorities don't pinch your fingers when they slam that loophole.

It's a stupid law to begin with. Can you image a 1911 with chamber indicator and magazine safety? Hell, ask every single LEO what's in their holster and try to find one that's qualify to be on the roster and not grandfather in.

Tophernj
October 12, 2012, 08:29 PM
I own a Kimber Stainless Target II 9mm.

I highly recommend it.

C

Dudemeister
October 12, 2012, 10:55 PM
I was looking for the same thing a month ago, and eventually gave up. There are only a few 9mm 1911 on the roster, the Kimber being one of them, but the reality is that getting one of the few 9mm on the roster was nearly impossible. No one has any stock, and if you want one, you have to prepay for it, then be prepared to wait, and wait and wait.

I also looked into the SSE, but the cost was just silly. First there are very few FFLs that will be willing to deal with it. They simply don't want to deal with the complications.

Additionally there is the cost of the conversion. A local FFL in the Bay Area wanted to charge $400 for the conversion and the transfer, on top of the cost of the gun.

So I personally cave in and went for the easily available .45ACP. I bought the Sig Sauer 1911 Stainless, and haven't regretted it one bit. .45ACP is easy to load, and a pleasure to shoot.

BTW. If you haven't looked at the Sig 1911, you should. That gun, out of the box, is nearly match grade.

http://digistealth.com/Public/Guns/Sig%201911/SIG1911_004.jpg

BYJO4
October 12, 2012, 11:10 PM
I've had the Kimber SS Target II 9MM for about 2 years. It is an excellent pistol and no malfunctions with 6,000 rounds fired so far.

9mmepiphany
October 13, 2012, 12:16 AM
I also looked into the SSE, but the cost was just silly. First there are very few FFLs that will be willing to deal with it. They simply don't want to deal with the complications.


Additionally there is the cost of the conversion. A local FFL in the Bay Area wanted to charge $400 for the conversion and the transfer, on top of the cost of the gun.

Sounds like you didn't look far enough. Should have checked with Valkyrie Arms (http://www.valkyriearms.net/) in Santa Clara...they don't charge anything close to what you were quoted

robctwo
October 13, 2012, 01:44 AM
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/DSCN2544.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/DSCN2547.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/DSCN0300.jpg

Les Baer 9mm PII. I've added the fiber optic front sight and had it refinished with IonBond. Esmeralda grips. Under $2k a few years ago. Sweet shooter.

Oldnoob
October 13, 2012, 03:32 AM
I was looking for the same thing a month ago, and eventually gave up. There are only a few 9mm 1911 on the roster, the Kimber being one of them, but the reality is that getting one of the few 9mm on the roster was nearly impossible. No one has any stock, and if you want one, you have to prepay for it, then be prepared to wait, and wait and wait.

I also looked into the SSE, but the cost was just silly. First there are very few FFLs that will be willing to deal with it. They simply don't want to deal with the complications.

Additionally there is the cost of the conversion. A local FFL in the Bay Area wanted to charge $400 for the conversion and the transfer, on top of the cost of the gun.

So I personally cave in and went for the easily available .45ACP. I bought the Sig Sauer 1911 Stainless, and haven't regretted it one bit. .45ACP is easy to load, and a pleasure to shoot.

BTW. If you haven't looked at the Sig 1911, you should. That gun, out of the box, is nearly match grade.

http://digistealth.com/Public/Guns/Sig%201911/SIG1911_004.jpg

Uh, I'm aware of Sig 1911. And I agree, it's a lot of gun for its price. But sadly, as now they don't have a 9mm 1911. Here is my XO:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/johell/My%20gun/SigXO1911.jpg

I will be happy to pay $1k for my XO if it's a 9mm. I'm just not enjoy 45acp as much as 9mm.

m2steven
October 13, 2012, 07:10 AM
If you have a steady hand, you cannot beat the Springfield EMP. People who can shoot - shoot lights out with the thing. I'm pretty good with mine. The workmanship of the pistol and the incredible 3 magazines you get with it are the best. Super easy to reload the mags.

The site radius is short which is a negative for me and others vis-a-vis target shooting. The pistol has a real match grade barrel that will spin a bullet directly where it's pointed. Will do the same groupings as my Sig X-5.

Most of the other pistols mentioned are excellent as well.

DRYHUMOR
October 13, 2012, 07:27 AM
Dan Wesson PM 9s are worth looking at.

http://dryhumor.smugmug.com/Hobbies/ammoslingers/i-9dZkS4K/0/L/DSC03069-L.jpg

Dudemeister
October 13, 2012, 02:10 PM
Sounds like you didn't look far enough. Should have checked with Valkyrie Arms (http://www.valkyriearms.net/) in Santa Clara...they don't charge anything close to what you were quoted
In fact it was Valkyrie Arms that quoted me "somewhere in the $400 range" for the conversion, FFL transfer and DROS. I was originally looking to get a decent but inexpensive ($600-700) gun like the Taurus or the RIA/Armscor 1911 in 9mm, because I didn't want to start with yet another caliber.

But after that quote, I was looking at $1K+, so I decided that .45ACP ain't so bad after all.

9mmepiphany
October 13, 2012, 03:32 PM
In fact it was Valkyrie Arms that quoted me "somewhere in the $400 range" for the conversion, FFL transfer and DROS. I was originally looking to get a decent but inexpensive ($600-700) gun like the Taurus or the RIA/Armscor 1911 in 9mm, because I didn't want to start with yet another caliber.

But after that quote, I was looking at $1K+, so I decided that .45ACP ain't so bad after all.
That's odd, last I checked it was about $50.

The price sounds about correct if you were asking to purchase the conversion parts?

bds
October 13, 2012, 04:09 PM
But sadly, as now they don't have a 9mm 1911.
This is right from Sig Sauer's website - http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-traditional-match-elite-stainless.aspx

The 1911 Traditional Match Elite is the first SIG SAUER® 1911 to be offered in a caliber other than .45 Auto ... The 9mm and .40S&W Match Elite models are also full sized, but feature a natural stainless slide and frame, white controls and adjustable target sights. The Match Elites feature Hogue custom wood checkered grips
http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/1911Trad-STMatchElite-Detail-Hero.jpg


Although I like Sig 1911, if you are going the SSE route, I would seriously consider the STI Trojan in 9mm - http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=3040000-1095448367

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/images/mediums/519-Trojan%209x19%205%22.jpg

Dudemeister
October 13, 2012, 09:41 PM
That's odd, last I checked it was about $50.

The price sounds about correct if you were asking to purchase the conversion parts?
I assume that's what they were talking about, not just the transfer, that would be crazy for just paperwork.

I would buy the gun I wanted, have it shipped directly to them, they would convert it (presumably with their parts), then do the FFL transfer, DROS, etc.

My cost would be whatever I paid for the pistol and shipping if any, then $400 to Valkyrie for everything else. Nevertheless, that was still going to add up to well over a grand.

9mmepiphany
October 13, 2012, 10:03 PM
My cost would be whatever I paid for the pistol and shipping if any, then $400 to Valkyrie for everything else. Nevertheless, that was still going to add up to well over a grand.
I think you are still misunderstanding.

If you don't keep the conversion parts, their charge for converting your gun is just $50. Of course, you'll have to then add their transfer fee, DROS and taxes...but you'd have to paid that for any gun you bought from out of state

Dudemeister
October 13, 2012, 10:43 PM
I think you are still misunderstanding.

If you don't keep the conversion parts, their charge for converting your gun is just $50. Of course, you'll have to then add their transfer fee, DROS and taxes...but you'd have to paid that for any gun you bought from out of state
Now I'm confused.

Are you saying that after they do the conversion and the gun transferred, I can return the conversion parts, and they'll reimburse me for them?

That was never explained to me.

9mmepiphany
October 14, 2012, 12:41 AM
well, I guess you could keep them...some folks do...but, I'm not sure what you would use them for

Dudemeister
October 14, 2012, 02:54 AM
I wouldn't have any need for the conversion part once I reverted the pistol to it's normal configuration, but I thought that was the whole gimmick, sell you a bunch of parts you'll never use.

Are these parts like universal, so they can be used over and over on any gun, or are they unique to each model? If they are unique, why would the dealer want them back? The odds are they won't use them again unless someone orders the same gun

Anyway, the guy I talked to at Valkyrie never mentioned any of this.

Oh well... live and learn. This is good info for next time I have a hankering for some forbidden fruit.

Oldnoob
October 14, 2012, 08:59 AM
This is right from Sig Sauer's website - http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-traditional-match-elite-stainless.aspx


http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/1911Trad-STMatchElite-Detail-Hero.jpg


Although I like Sig 1911, if you are going the SSE route, I would seriously consider the STI Trojan in 9mm - http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=3040000-1095448367

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/images/mediums/519-Trojan%209x19%205%22.jpg

I know the show that in their site. But I don't think they were any production out. People have been asking for a while on 1911 forum.

Trojan looks ok, but I don't like that front grip. It didn't help for the grip and the design doesn't go with rest of gun (unlike Kimber Raptor). Consider I like front grip checkering and it usually cost $200~300 for smith job, I think I rather spend that money on Lawman 5.0.

9mmepiphany
October 14, 2012, 02:31 PM
I had a chance to shoot a STI Trojan during much of my trip to Gunsite last year.

I was pleasantly surprised by how well it performed...I'm not a huge fan of adjustable sights on a working gun...during the week. All the sharp edges have been dressed and I think it is a great value in a mid-priced 1911. After talking to the folks at the STI booth at SHOT, I was even more impressed and the Trojan is a pistol I often recommend.

I'd recommend a STI Trojan over any SIG 1911...especially if you're going to have to SSE it anyway.

Sidebar: I really like the chainlink texture on the frontstrap. It is a bit softer than the Ed Brown version and I don't shoot with glove on.
Disclaimer: I'm not a huge fan of checkering, as I've found it fragile or overly abrasive; depending on coarseness

Oldnoob
October 14, 2012, 03:48 PM
I had a chance to shoot a STI Trojan during much of my trip to Gunsite last year.

I was pleasantly surprised by how well it performed...I'm not a huge fan of adjustable sights on a working gun...during the week. All the sharp edges have been dressed and I think it is a great value in a mid-priced 1911. After talking to the folks at the STI booth at SHOT, I was even more impressed and the Trojan is a pistol I often recommend.

I'd recommend a STI Trojan over any SIG 1911...especially if you're going to have to SSE it anyway.

Sidebar: I really like the chainlink texture on the frontstrap. It is a bit softer than the Ed Brown version and I don't shoot with glove on.
Disclaimer: I'm not a huge fan of checkering, as I've found it fragile or overly abrasive; depending on coarseness

How was the trigger on the Trojan you has shot?

I'm just opposite of you. Not a big fan of the chain link texture. Love the 30lpi on my Sig 1911.

9mmepiphany
October 14, 2012, 04:29 PM
The trigger broke very cleanly, but with enough feel for me to prep it during muzzle flip...I was surprised for an out of the box trigger in this price range...about 4lbs (I didn't measure it)

I started with the belief that what I was supposed to want was checkering. I like the look of 30lpi but prefer the function of 25lpi...I like 30lpi serrations on the back of the slide/rear sight/top of slide.

My taste transitioned more toward Conamyds, Chainlink and Golfball textures. I even prefer vertical serrations (20lpi) on the frontstrap to checkering...but I really like them in an Art Deco pattern. I also prefer a shortened spur-hammer nestled in a dished out high-ride beavertail, to the burr hammer of a Commander style hammer

bluetopper
October 14, 2012, 06:23 PM
I'd rather have my Dan Wesson 9mm 1911 than any you mention.
I also picked up a used Fusion 9mm Longslide here on THR for $800........be on the lookout for good used deals.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/bendebval/pm9-4.jpg

bds
October 14, 2012, 06:48 PM
I'd rather have my Dan Wesson 9mm 1911 than any you mention.
I also picked up a used Fusion 9mm Longslide here on THR for $800........be on the lookout for good used deals.
Thing is that you could be waiting a loooooong time for such a deal and prices may not be so good either when such a deal comes along next time - then you have to be the first "I'll take it" to get it. :mad:

I tried to buy one of like 200 DW PM7s made for California for 2 years without success (missed the last one by like 15-20 minutes at LGS) and bought a railed Sig 1911 TacPac instead at almost half the price at $850. I have no regrets for the Sig purchase. I may use the SSE for my next 1911 purchase. :D

CountGlockulla
October 14, 2012, 06:58 PM
I've owned nearly every brand of 1911 and many in 9mm.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better value than a STI Trojan 9mm. Have it hard chromed or Cerakoted.

I also like Dan Wessons for under $2K and just bought another. A 9mm ECO.

If you go over have a custom build. I've got a colt .38 super at Chambers Custom about to be converted into a 9mm retro fighting gun with the features I want.

PTMCCAIN
October 14, 2012, 07:48 PM
Glock 17 for 9mm.

.45ACP for a 1911, 'nuff said.

; )

Jed Carter
October 14, 2012, 10:55 PM
If this is to be your first 9mm 1911 then I would get an STI Trojan or Sentry. I have an old Colt MK Series 70 9mm, loved it, then the STI Custom Shop Trojan 9mm arrived, haven't shot the Colt since. Out of the box it is the best shooting pistol I own, including a S&W PC 1911. Trigger very good, right at 3.4 lbs, good target sights and a ramped Schuemann barrel. One thing about STI 1911s, they work, and shoot very well right out of the box, I use mine in USPSA Single Stack and Steel Challenge matches. Or when I just want to impress friends and influence enemies. Any good 9mm 1911 is an amazing pistol, accurate, very low recoil. I do not think spending $850 to $1000 more on a 9mm 1911 would give me any advantage over the STI I have. As yet I have not not made any mechanical modifications, not had any problems, 2 years and over 7000 rounds later, except the grips it's still box stock.

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