300yard gun


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tigersfan
October 12, 2012, 01:51 PM
Looking for a long range gun, flat shooting, any suggestions on which brand/model? In $500-700 range. With weathershield, Thinking tc venture, model 70 winchester, and a couple others. Maybe .308, 7mm..08, 300 mag. Any input appreciated, thanks.

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joed
October 12, 2012, 02:00 PM
I'm a Winchester fan, tough to beat their model 70.

GhostRanger
October 12, 2012, 02:08 PM
Please go a little farther in depth as to what this weapon will be used for. It it is target shooting at 300 yards then a .223 will do just fine. If you are hunting then you may want the calibers that you listed above but a .243 will do just fine hitting a deer out at 300 yards as well.

tigersfan
October 12, 2012, 02:11 PM
Mostly for deer hunting, hunt both fields and woods, so I am leaning towards a .308 . Also because ammo is cheap and easy to find.

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mdauben
October 12, 2012, 02:15 PM
Looking for a long range gun, flat shooting, any suggestions on which brand/model? In $500-700 range. With weathershield, Thinking tc venture, model 70 winchester, and a couple others. Maybe .308, 7mm..08, 300 mag. Any input appreciated, thanks.
If you are looking for a hunting rifle (which the mention of weathershield might indicate) honesly any of the major manufactures produce guns capable of hunting accuracy out to 300 yards and anything caliber from .243 up to .30-06 will work in that range. Personally, I'd consider .300 mag overkill for unless you are looking beyond 300 yards. I'd say either .308 or 7mm-08 would make a good choice for deer sized game.

tigersfan
October 12, 2012, 02:15 PM
Also thinking about tc dimension, anyone try them out yet?

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Sam1911
October 12, 2012, 02:17 PM
It's kind of hard to narrow things down based on that. I'd be very surprised if there was a model of bolt-action sporting rifle made today, chambered in almost any cartridge north of .223 Rem that wouldn't reliably kill a deer at 300 yards. That's not a terribly long shot and most hunters should be capable of learning to make reliable hits out that far with fairly basic, inexpensive rifle and scope, and factory ammo.

(That's not to say most hunters in the field can make that shot. But they could learn to do so with a bit of practice.)

GhostRanger
October 12, 2012, 02:18 PM
.308 is a good versatile round. It will do the trick out to 600+ yards depending on the shooter and as you say the ammo is easy to find. Also don't forget the tried and true 30-06 which is a little up from the .308 and ammo is just as easy to find. The .300 Win-Mag is a hell of a round and 300 yards is on the short side for it. You would not be using it to its fullest potential at that range.

As to a rifle itself I am partial to the Remington 700. But that is just my $.02

squarepants33889
October 12, 2012, 02:19 PM
Maybe a Tikka T3 in 7mm-08? I own a Tikka in .204 Ruger and had the opportunity to shoot one in a 7mm-08 last year. The recoil is nearly negligible, yet it still packs some punch out there. 300yrds might be stretching it, but I believe its a very nice compromise of power and comfort. Ammo is becoming a little easier to find, but its still nice to reload.
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/squarepants33889/IMG_0065.jpg

mdauben
October 12, 2012, 02:26 PM
300yrds might be stretching it, but I believe its a very nice compromise of power and comfort.
There is always room for debate in such things, of course, but if we use the old "1,000 foot-pounds" rule of thumb, the 7mm-08 is capable of cleanly taking deer well past 300 yards. IMO the main limiting factor for the 7mm-08 is bullet drop, which starts to become excessive beyond around 400 yards.

adelbridge
October 12, 2012, 02:29 PM
Everybody talks about 300 yard shooting as if it were a chip shot and that couldnt be farther from the truth. Things start to get really interesting out past 200 yards. If you want a gun to shoot 300 yards without having to adjust for drop your entry level is going to be a 130 grain .270 sighted in 3" high at 100 yards. You are still going to have to compensate for wind drift. My 300 yard gun is 7mm rem mag shooting 150 grains, pretty similar exterior ballistics to 130 grain .270 but a little more punch and a slightly better BC to battle wind drift.

Sam1911
October 12, 2012, 02:37 PM
Everybody talks about 300 yard shooting as if it were a chip shot and that couldnt be farther from the truth.

Which is why I said...

That's not to say most hunters in the field can make that shot. But they could learn to do so with a bit of practice.)


My point was really that, with so many manufacturers turning out rifles capable of 1-moa or better accuracy right out of the box these days, you really don't have to stress over which rifle can do the job. Many can.

What you need to stress over is if YOU (the shooter) have the skills to be making shots like that.

mdauben
October 12, 2012, 02:39 PM
Everybody talks about 300 yard shooting as if it were a chip shot and that couldnt be farther from the truth. Things start to get really interesting out past 200 yards. If you want a gun to shoot 300 yards without having to adjust for drop your entry level is going to be a 130 grain .270 sighted in 3" high at 100 yards. You are still going to have to compensate for wind drift.
The difference in drop between a .270 Win firing a 130gr bullet, and a 7mm-08 firing a 140 gr bullet is less than 1/2 inch at 300 yards. Certainly the shooter needs to do his job at that range, and I've seen lots of hunters who couldn't, but any of the common deer cartridge recomendations (well, maybe not the .30-30!) are more than adequate for 300 yard shots.

627PCFan
October 12, 2012, 02:43 PM
T3 in 25-06. Done done and done

Abel
October 12, 2012, 02:57 PM
25-06.....make sure it has a 24" barrel.

adelbridge
October 12, 2012, 03:18 PM
The difference in drop between a .270 Win firing a 130gr bullet, and a 7mm-08 firing a 140 gr bullet is less than 1/2 inch at 300 yards. that half inch is the difference between a 290 MPBR and 300 MPBR you really do have to start splitting hairs when an ethical kill is required

mdauben
October 12, 2012, 03:25 PM
that half inch is the difference between a 290 MPBR and 300 MPBR you really do have to start splitting hairs when an ethical kill is required
What I'm saying is that arguing 1/2 inch differences in bullet drop or 10 yard differeces in MPBR is "splitting hairs". At a range of 300 yards there is no significant difference in practical effectiveness between the two cartridges.

Cee Zee
October 12, 2012, 04:16 PM
I would probably think about things like fit and features if I was making that decision. Well I did just that when I did buy my hunting rifle. Tikka's are certainly nice rifles but some complain about them being too light for a .308 cartridge (too much recoil) but if you're looking only at rifles to hunt that may not be a factor. Looks matters to some people. The ability to deal with really bad weather is a must for some (like anyone who lives near salt marshes or the ocean). Iron sights appeal to some. And a great fit is always a plus.

IMO it would be hard to go too wrong these days. The only rifles I might be concerned about are the Remingtons because of recent problems with QC due to the company being taken over and the plant moved. I guess Marlin has had some problems there too especially with their lever guns. Plus the Remington 710's and 770's were never the best guns. I used to love Remington and I still have some of their stuff but they have cut some corners in recent years. That's really too bad but their older rifles are top notch.

There's a whole world full of rifles out there that will do what you ask. And about any caliber above a .223 will work great. In fact a .223 will probably work but I would prefer to take the "probably" out of the issue. Many people do hunt deer with .223 but IMO a .243 would be better.

Water-Man
October 12, 2012, 06:06 PM
Tikka T3 Hunter.

They come in several calibers that will do what you want. I have one in 6.5x55SE.

dprice3844444
October 12, 2012, 06:17 PM
Model #: M77 Hawkeye All Weather 3o8 stainless/synthetic,short,light and sweet 22 inch bbl 7lbs

FiveInADime
October 12, 2012, 06:49 PM
In my opinion, the FN made model 70 is as good a hunting rifle as anything on the shelves right now. The stainless/synthetic version is a bargain for that quality level. Any good caliber will do 30-06, .308, .270, 25-06, 7mmremmag, 7-08, etc. Any of them will work to 300 yards no prob.

To the flatlanders saying 300 yards is tough: I agree if you are talking about a standing unsupported shot. Anyone can make a rested shot at 300 yards with a 2 MOA rifle. That's why we carry shooting sticks. Westerners dont get as many shots as the boys back east. Out here if you get a chance at a 300 yard deer you take it. It might be the last shot you get for the season.

Cee Zee
October 12, 2012, 06:53 PM
At one time us "easterners" were lucky to get a shot in 5 years. My how times have changed though. Up until the mid-70's it was very rare to see a white tail where I live. Then it was like someone dropped a bomb full of them. They were everywhere. Same for turkey and bear. Go figure.

300 yards off hand is not that hard with a good rifle IMO. It has to be really well balanced and to be honest most rifles with scopes are not balanced that well. I can hold my SKS on a target better than I can my Savage 110 if I have a scope on the Savage. Without the scope they are about equal. And 300 yard shots without a scope aren't that hard either. Maybe it's just that 300 yards was about the limit on our farm and I practiced at that range a lot.

Old judge creek
October 12, 2012, 07:16 PM
I have an ancient Ruger 77 243 that will drive tacks at 300 yards all day long.

I'd also be willing to bet that a well made 25-06 will do like wise.

Then again, I'm now officially a Westerner. I have a 1000 yard range on my ranch and a Shiloh Sharps that will shoot the whiskers off a gnat at 650 yards. Joking aside, it'll hit a waste-paper-can-size rock on a hillside at a measured 650 yards with astonishing consistency. (45-70 405 grain bullet). What I like to do is dial the rifle in then giuve it to someone who's never shot anything that big or that far. By the third shot they've a feel for it and the proceed to hit the rock with amazing consistency. They all walk away feeling like Matthew Quigley.

saturno_v
October 12, 2012, 07:53 PM
A hunting rifle capable at 300 yards for that budget or even less?? Too many good choices to mention....just avoid the too "el cheapo" options, like the Remington 770 or the Mossberg rifles....

Ar180shooter
October 12, 2012, 08:03 PM
Stevens 200 or Savage M11, add a Timney trigger and decent budget scope (Redfield or Weaver) and you'll have yourself a decent accurate gun that will work within your budget.

lefteyedom
October 12, 2012, 08:20 PM
A 300 yard rifle is easy. A good 300 yard real world, not shooting from a bench , shooter that is harder to find.

A perfect rifle would be a bolt action chambered for any of the following 260 Remington, 7-08, 308..... 25-06, 270, 280, 30-06..... any of the major brands will do, I prefer Savage,

Manly find a gun you like.

A good 3x9x40 scope and you are done.

fol4321
October 12, 2012, 11:50 PM
7mm-08

Pete D.
October 13, 2012, 08:53 AM
300 yards offhand is not that hard......??? At A ten inch zone on a whitetail?
I beg to disagree.....that is mighty fine shooting indeed. Fine enough that it is beyond the skills of most hunters who will be or are in the woods this year.
Pets

helotaxi
October 13, 2012, 09:21 AM
Fine enough that it is beyond the skills of most hunters who will be or are in the woods this year.That's a pretty low standard though. For a rifleman that practices with his chosen firearm, it's a doable shot. For the typical hunter that takes his deer rifle out of the closet the day before the season opens, maybe takes it to the range to make sure it's zeroed, and might fire a handful of shots during the season (depending on how many days he goes hunting and the local rules on tags), that would be an impossible shot. Regardless of skill level, a "hunter" worthy of the title isn't going to take that shot offhand if he's got any other option.

Sam1911
October 13, 2012, 09:25 AM
300 yards offhand What? Offhand? No, that would be quite tough indeed. I'd go far enough out on a limb to say that "no one" should be trying that on game. 300 yards well rested, on a bipod, sandbag, prone, or out of a blind or stand? Yeah, that's certainly doable.

tigersfan
October 13, 2012, 09:33 AM
Im going with either the .308 or 300. Definitely want weathershied of some sort, mostly for whitetail hunting, may shoot a lot for practice since ammo is cheap for it. Anybody have experience or recommendations for guns with weathershield of some sort?

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Sam1911
October 13, 2012, 09:50 AM
What's weathershield?

EDIT: Oh, that's T/C's version of a corrosion-proof finish. Ok. I'd think most manufacturer's have some version of that, or offer a matte stainless version for "extreme" weather.

.308 "or .300"? .300 isn't going to be all that cheap, or much fun to practice with, and sure excessive on any deer at only 300 yds.


.308 is just fine.

WVRJ
October 13, 2012, 09:53 AM
Nothing wrong with the 308,or any one of dozens of other calibers that will get the job done at 300 yards.Some of the flatter shooting rounds can actually be sighted in for 300 and still not be any more than 3 inches high at 100.I've killed a good number of deer at 300 and beyond,but it takes a rifle you are used to,a good scope and a rest of some sort and a lot of practice.

Jbaker47
October 13, 2012, 09:57 AM
My savage in 308 has killed deer up to 350.... I've always been partial to savages. They are cheap, they work, and they are accurate as anything.. Also the weatherby's aren't bad. You'd be hard pressed to find something both cheaper and better for the price than those two.


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helotaxi
October 13, 2012, 10:09 AM
What? Offhand? No, that would be quite tough indeed. I'd go far enough out on a limb to say that "no one" should be trying that on game.Considering that it's essentially holding the "10 ring" on a High Power target for the offhand stage (3.5 MOA) it's hardly impossible. The caveat is that one has to be a shooter compared to someone that just owns a rifle that they take hunting. The other difference is that the person most capable of that shot probably isn't going to take it while the person least capable...well that's probably a different story.

meanmrmustard
October 13, 2012, 10:11 AM
Tikka T3 Hunter.

They come in several calibers that will do what you want. I have one in 6.5x55SE.
Winner.

Sam1911
October 13, 2012, 11:56 AM
Considering that it's essentially holding the "10 ring" on a High Power target for the offhand stage (3.5 MOA) it's hardly impossible. The caveat is that one has to be a shooter compared to someone that just owns a rifle that they take hunting. The other difference is that the person most capable of that shot probably isn't going to take it while the person least capable...well that's probably a different story.
Of course. But High Power is shot under pretty specific conditions, using optimized target shooting equipment and kit, and a very specific high-definition target. Not hunting clothes and a Remington/Tikka/Savage/Winchester/etc. hunting rifle, standing in a pasture at dawn/dusk after hiking three miles, and shooting at a movable brown object against a brown background an unknown true distance away etc., etc.

I'm sure it's been done, but as you say, the guys most likely to be able to pull off that shot are probably those who understand best why they shouldn't be trying that shot at a living creature.

Husker_Fan
October 13, 2012, 12:16 PM
I like my Rem 700 SPS DM. Mine is in 7mm Rem Mag because I wanted a gun for deer and elk. For a dedicated deer gun, I'd go .243, 7mm-08, or .308 win. They are all developed from the same cartridge and the choice among them would depend on what else you want to do with the gun and whether or not you want to reload. All have a wide variety of factory ammo available.

NWcityguy2
October 13, 2012, 12:43 PM
I'm not sure I see the productivity in debating the skill needed to make a clean kill on a deer at 300 yards. That's in real life, is up to the OP and none of us are going to be there to help him practice or hunt. He asked for a rifle capable of doing the job and got lots of good advice so the rest is up to him.

To me shooting 300 yards is a challenge to those who have tried it, easy to those who haven't and since most rifles are capable of it not really an equipment related issue (or easy fix). My only advice is don't go overboard on the cartridge. There is long range and then there is "longer than people typically shoot". A short action cartridge like 7mm-08 or .308 will save wear on the shoulder of the shooter.

1858
October 13, 2012, 02:56 PM
300 yards offhand is not that hard......??? At A ten inch zone on a whitetail?
I beg to disagree.....

Exactly!! When you consider that the 300 yard SR-3 target used in NRA High Power has a 7" ten ring (2.3 MOA) and then consider that all shooting at the 300 yard line is PRONE, you have to wonder about the real-world experience of some here. :rolleyes:

lefteyedom
October 14, 2012, 03:53 AM
If the deer is 300 + yards away the hunter should be able to find some type of supported position to shoot from. Prone, using a day-pack as rest makes 300 yards do able.

Hunting is about stalking game, the goal of a stalk is to get into a position to be able to cleaning kill the game. Get closer.

Cee Zee
October 14, 2012, 04:59 AM
I'm surprised at you guys. I've seen lots of people that can make that 300 yard shot off hand. Would I try it on a live animal? Most likely not because there is a chance of missing and I don't take shots at anything that I might miss. But it certainly can be done and if I was starving or something you can bet I'd take that shot.

I can shoot my Savage 110 and hit a 10" target at 300 yards off hand probably 90% of the time. And I'm no great shot. I've seen lots of people that shoot better than I do. It is true that most people I know wouldn't take that shot because it just isn't needed where I live. There's always some place to rest a rifle even if it's just holding it against the side of a tree. And, again, not using a scope allows a person to hold a rifle more steady. Sure you have to be able to see your target and you have to be able to shoot without a scope. And I wouldn't go hunt anything without practicing first. I would think that goes without saynig. I guess that's just the way I was raised where no one ever shoots at anything live unless they have their skills down. It's easy enough to master those skills IMO. It just takes the time to do it and if you hunt without doing it then you're taking a chance on a cruel, non-life taking shot. And I'm not just talking about shooting off a rest and calling that practice. You need to practice off hand shots. I guess I just assume people do that before they go hunting. AFAIK everyone in my area gets in a good bit of practice before trying to harvest a deer.

I think the reason a lot of folks don't realize that 300 yard, off hand shot is fairly easy is that everyone is addicted to scopes these days. When I was a kid it was very rare to see a scope on a deer rifle. People hunted with 30-30's and they didn't use scopes. Now you can barely find a rifle that even has iron sights. It makes practicing hard. Try aiming your hunting rifle without the scope on it and see how much easier it is to hold the sights on a target. If you practice shooting at something where you can see where your hitting without needing a scope then you will be able to figure out how to hit a shot like that pretty quickly IMO. I've seen lots of people do it.

I guess I have more faith in you guys than most people. I believe you can do it because I've seen people do it often. They would generally practice at around 300 yards on our farm because that's the longest open space we had. They did not take shots n animals at that distance though. In fact they rarely even got a shot at a whitetail and they wouldn't risk wounding one of the few bucks in the area on a long shot.

you have to wonder about the real-world experience of some here

If I couldn't hit a 7" ten ring at 300 yards from the prone position I'd quit shooting. Obviously no one would hit it every time. But you seem to have left out that much of that 300 yard NRA shooting is rapid fire.

You also seem to like following me around to contradict what I say. Have you noticed how often people hit those 10 rings in those competitions? And who said you needed to hit a 7" area to kill a deer? BTW is that target you are talking about the rapid fire target they use for 300 yards? Why don't you try learning to shoot instead of swearing that no one else can because you can't? I've seen kids make the shots you're saying can't be made.

Personally I don't like to shoot anything off hand if I can help it these days because of a back injury. But I can still do it if I try. I could probably show you how to do it too 1858. Wouldn't you rather learn something than slam others because they already know it? Again I'm just an average shooter but I know what can be done with a rifle and some practice.

CB900F
October 14, 2012, 10:02 AM
Tigersfan;

Here's another vote for the 6.5X55mm Swedish Mauser. It's available on several different platforms, the Tikka T3 being an excellent one. Winchester has also produced the model 70 in that caliber, though I don't know if their current catalog lists it. And CZ will sell you one too. The CZ is only in wood/blue I think, but does have the single-set trigger which many people find they really like.

The 6.5 will give you mild recoil, and truly outstanding downrange ballistics, particularly with the 140 grain bullets. And it's known to be exceptionally accurate, given that all due diligence is performed.

900F

Kahr33556
October 14, 2012, 10:16 AM
7mm mag.If you want a shorter gun maybe a 270 or 25-06

Hangingrock
October 14, 2012, 10:31 AM
Three hundred yards is not an equipment problem but rather a shooter competency question.

tigersfan
October 14, 2012, 12:28 PM
I am more interested in what u guys think of the models of guns or if you have bought one I mentioned recently. I want a real good quality gun, I looked at remingtons a few months ago and all the bolts/actions were probably the worst I've ever felt, not even close to smooth. haven't bought a gun in ten years. Obviously about every gun can shoot 300 yards.
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HKGuns
October 14, 2012, 12:43 PM
T/C would not be on my short list.....Tikka is a good suggestion, most of the others are good too. Depends on your budget really.

TAKtical
October 14, 2012, 12:47 PM
Would the 7.62x39 be effective at that distance?

HKGuns
October 14, 2012, 01:00 PM
Would the 7.62x39 be effective at that distance?

I wouldn't take that shot with that round.

Certaindeaf
October 14, 2012, 04:49 PM
Jeff Cooper, who had LOTS of experience with Marines and rifle trainees, said "show me, show me NOW"..
Maybe he was from Missouri?

Averageman
October 14, 2012, 07:28 PM
I have shot competition way past 300 meters with an as issued M16 and about 5 rounds and twenty minutes to sight it in.
I might not take that same shot at 50 as I did at 19, put I just might if the wind was right and the shot was clear, even with a .223.
I have a nice Savage Model 11 in .308 and I wouldn't hesitate to take that shot. Get a nice Burris FullField 3X9 on top and practise with it and you'll be fine. At that point it's as much about ammo performance as the rifle.
You can pick up a very nice rifle used that will last you a lifetime.

cactus02
October 14, 2012, 08:52 PM
I saw 2 weeks ago a rem 700 varminter barreled 308 with scope for $549 at dicks sporting and almost bought my third one just because I could. Accurate out of the box with a no name 3 to 9 remington scope to boot.

p5200
October 14, 2012, 10:21 PM
I've been watching hunting on TV and have been wondering about the new Ruger American? The price sure seems cheap enough. :)

Kachok
October 14, 2012, 11:09 PM
Another "which rifle" thread.
Having owned several examples of each major brand let me break it down for you.

Winchester 70: The old push feed I had from the 90s was lackluster but the new FN made one is fantastic, only downside is that my featherweight is a tad picky about what bullets it will group tight with. Highly recommended.

Marlin XS7: crude ergonomics and just plain ugly, but it shot pretty darn good and never had any issues, it was cheap as well, so I put it on the good value list.

Savage 110: rock solid reliable, stupid accurate, and fantastic factory trigger all for bargain money. Simply the best bargin rifle on the market I have owned six of them. HIGHLY recommended!

Browning A-bolt: slim and light. It just has a different feel then other rifles, and the flip down mag is nifty. Avarage accuracy, and good reliability, though some of the characteristics of the rifle turn me off, like it's very weak ejector feel, it just drops brass out of the action rather then throwing it. It only makes the "buy it list" if it fits you really well.

Tikka T3: THE most accurate featherweight rifle I have ever shot, one hole groups at 100yd, as if that were not enough it also has the perfect trigger, great fiber re-enforced stock, and an action so smooth you cannot feel it chamber a round. This tops the recommended list but they do cost a bit more then the other bargain rifles. This is my favorite rifle of all time.

Remington 700: Mixed reviews on these, loved the older ones, HATE the new ones, the last three I owned were all garbage. They were so bad that I swore off Remington firearms, worst guns I have ever shot. An old 700 is a classic sporter you will love for a lifetime......big difference.

Cannot speak for the Ruger or T/C from first hand experience, but hopefully I will be able to soon.

FiveInADime
October 15, 2012, 12:53 PM
Winchester 70: The old push feed I had from the 90s was lackluster but the new FN made one is fantastic, only downside is that my featherweight is a tad picky about what bullets it will group tight with. Highly recommended.

Marlin XS7: crude ergonomics and just plain ugly, but it shot pretty darn good and never had any issues, it was cheap as well, so I put it on the good value list.


I agree about the Winchester. If I had a bunch of money I would replace all of my hunting rifles (Some Winchester 70 push-feeds 80's and 90's) with the new FN Model 70s.

On the Marlin X7 I can't see where you are coming from but, of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I think they look like a classic bolt-action. Nothing ugly about that. I recently bought one over a Stevens 200 because I think it looked 5x as good, had more features, and was nearly the same action design. What's so bad about the ergonomics?

tigersfan
October 15, 2012, 02:51 PM
I'm going with the tikka t3 hunter. Will try to post pics later. Thanks for all the input. Now I can't wait to hit the range.

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98Redline
October 15, 2012, 06:49 PM
While Kachok may not be a big fan of the A-Bolt, I would say that I am. My .270 A-Bolt Medallion easily shoots .5 MOA with ammunition it likes. In the 20 years I have owned it it has yet to let me down. Most of the A-Bolts I have seen will easily shoot MOA given a good scope and shooter.

Regarding your caliber selection don't overlook the .270 Win. It is nearly ubiquitous to every store that sells hunting ammunition, is fairly light recoiling and flat shooting.

With a good 150gr bullet I wouldn't feel under gunned for anything up to and including elk.

splattergun
October 15, 2012, 08:35 PM
Killing a deer at 300 yards is not an extremely difficult thing to do. Any of the calibers mentioned in OP are capable of it and are available in his price range like fleas on a hound.

The greatest concern is the shooter's skill and familiarity with the weapon. Don't ignore Mossberg, Ruger, or Savage. While you would certainly be happiest with a quality scope, I have taken a few mule deer ~ 450 yards with my Mossberg 1500 and a cheap Tasco scope. I can do this because I practice and I know where the bullet will hit at various ranges.

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