10mm for Woods Protection


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spider 69
October 12, 2012, 07:41 PM
I've got S&W 1076, so hot loads shouldn't be a problem. However I have no "real world" experience with it's effect on the dangerous critters out there. Anybody have any info to share?

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intercooler
October 12, 2012, 08:15 PM
Which ones? I saw the 200gr TMJ go through a 14" tree on here. Underwood's new 220gr Hard Cast at 1200 FPS would do some serious damage.

FMF Doc
October 13, 2012, 12:10 AM
It depends on what type of critters you are talking about. For wild dogs, cayotes, and cats, I would go with 155-185gr JHP, just like for people. If you are talking about black bear and/or pig, then I would consider something like Buffalo Bore 220gr hardcast flat nosed. They will go deep enough to hit the CNS and hopefully give you the instant stop you need. Know, however, those things kick the a heathen mule, so your follow-ups can probably be measured on a sun dial.

481
October 13, 2012, 12:43 AM
Which ones? I saw the 200gr TMJ go through a 14" tree on here. Underwood's new 220gr Hard Cast at 1200 FPS would do some serious damage.

I'll say! According to the Schwartz bullet penetration model, that 10mm 220 gr. HCFN @ 1200 fps would penetrate 40.98" in soft tissue. :what: If you have to blow through it, the 10mm has the "horse-power".

:)

intercooler
October 13, 2012, 12:57 AM
I have shot every load from 135-220 out in my 10's and always felt the heavy grains are much easier to shoot than the light weight. More powder and oomph make flip more to me. I never worry about shooting the heavies but the light ones I make sure I'm ready!

PTMCCAIN
October 13, 2012, 01:27 AM
Buffalo Bore. 220 grain hard cast lead.

'nuff said.

spider 69
October 13, 2012, 02:39 AM
Around here we have alligators, crocodiles, pythons, black bear, feral hogs, cottonmouths, rattlers, coral snakes and some smaller types, like raccoons, that are mostly only a problem if they're rabid.

MachIVshooter
October 13, 2012, 12:25 PM
Mountain lions kill an average of 7 people per DECADE in North America.

107 people were killed by a wild bear in North America from 1900-2003.

Alligators claim about 1 person every other year on average.
.
.
.
.

Stinging and biting insects kill something like 300 people annually in the USA.

Hypothermia is the cause of 720 deaths per year in the USA.

Automobile accidents account for about 40,000 per annum deaths in the USA.


In summary, a gun for defense against things with claws and teeth should be a very distant concern after bug spray, appropriate clothing and driving carefully on your way to your outdoor adventue.

I know it's less romantic to think about not freezing to death than to ponder the possibility of a life-and-death struggle with a vicious cougar in which you narrowly escape with your life thanks to your trusty .44 magnum, but it is reality.

PO2Hammer
October 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
Bears prefer to eat un-armed hippies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Treadwell

Mosbyranger
October 13, 2012, 02:06 PM
Unless the woods you are running around in are in Africa and filled with Lions, Cape Buffalo, Rhinos and the like a 10 mm ought to be sufficient. If you are hiking in North America and come across a herd of rabid crack smoking meth tweaking PCP ingesting Polar bears a 10 mm should fill the bill. Personally, living in Colorado, I take a SP101 snubbie loaded with FMJ.38 specials and do not feel under gunned. It's also a LOT easier to pack up and down hills.
MR

spider 69
October 13, 2012, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.

MachIVshooter
You forgot water.
Although I have seen many bears in the woods, I've only had one narrow escape.

Twinny
We had a lady go out jogging a year or so ago who was never seen again until they opened up an alligator from the canal she jogged next to. A carefully aimed shot is a different situation.

I know the 10mm will handle my list except I'm just unsure of bears. Anyone with experience?

Anybody know of a snake load?

oldrevolverguy
October 13, 2012, 03:14 PM
I carry Hornady 200 grain XTP-JHP by Double Tap. I clocked the load @ 1200 FPS from my 29.

jmr40
October 13, 2012, 04:03 PM
I use a G-20 with Doubletaps 200 gr hardcast. They chronoed 1315 from my gun. It is adequate for protecton from anything in North America.

intercooler
October 13, 2012, 04:11 PM
10mm for snakes? Just about any low recoil round but seems rather nuts to even try really.

oldrevolver and jmr are those numbers out of 7" barrels?

spider 69
October 13, 2012, 04:55 PM
Intercooler
I meant snakeshot. Even if it wouldn't feed reliably it could still be the first rounf in the chamber.

intercooler
October 13, 2012, 05:21 PM
To shoot a snake with? I have crossed pathes with a good number of snakes. I just go around them because usually you see them and it's better knowing where they are. If you shoot and miss they may scurry just enough out of sight to make you guess, "is it safe to go that way". If I had a blaster I still wouldn't draw down on them. Just no point in doing it IMO that goes for about any animal. 9 times out of 10 they run off if you stay out of their space or they don't have young around.

As to the Bear. A 14" tree seems much harder than any meat and bone. That was a 200gr doing that so a 220gr at that speed would probably go 20". If 14 or so shots of that won't do it... club yourself in the head when it's empty and he will pass you over.

intercooler
October 13, 2012, 05:28 PM
Wow I found a story for you:

http://www.westernshooter.com/2011/02/bear-hunt-with-a-glock-20-10mm.html

intercooler
October 13, 2012, 06:37 PM
This was just posted today. I'm blocked from YouTube here but supposedly 10mm versus Elk. Can't wait to see it when I get home!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr2IG6t85Jg&feature=related

intercooler
October 13, 2012, 06:42 PM
Well I got it on my phone. He shoots twice and if you look off to the left it is still moving. Did the job but don't know what he was using.

MachIVshooter
October 14, 2012, 03:19 AM
MachIVshooter
You forgot water.

I left out a nearly all of the myriad threats to life and limb that are present in the great outdoors. I wanted to make a point, not write a risk management treatise.

spider 69
October 14, 2012, 05:34 AM
Quite right. They're good points, just not relevant to my situation. Sorry if I gave offense. You just seemed to dismiss my concern with a "can't happen here" attitude that is belied by my experience (as I said I had a narrow escape (dumb luck really) from a predatory black bear that stalked me), and to suggest I'm living in a fantasy world of false bravado rather than legitimately concerned for my safety.

MachIVshooter
October 14, 2012, 02:58 PM
Quite right. They're good points, just not relevant to my situation. Sorry if I gave offense. You just seemed to dismiss my concern with a "can't happen here" attitude that is belied by my experience (as I said I had a narrow escape (dumb luck really) from a predatory black bear that stalked me), and to suggest I'm living in a fantasy world of false bravado rather than legitimately concerned for my safety.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I feel there is no need to carry in the woods for defense against both 2 and 4 legged threats. I don't think that at all. Definitely carry something, and if you're going to carry, it may as well be enough to deal with whatever threat you encounter.

I'm just a bit jaded and annoyed at the ridiculous number of "what gun/caliber for (insert critter) defense?" threads of late. The illusion of commonplace danger from furry things seems very pervasive all of a sudden, and I just feel the need to keep it in perspective.

For the record, I do carry a 10mm at all times in the woods. But I've never felt threatened by the wildlife. Hostile drunk idiots and territorial hunters, yes, but not critters. As well, my 10mm isn't exactly "loaded for bear". It's stoked with handloaded 180 gr. Golden Sabres @ 1,400 FPS because they'll be highly effective against thin skinned things in the 100-300 pound range, whether that be a human threat or a deer that jumps up in front of me while my rifle is slung when hunting.

spider 69
October 14, 2012, 10:01 PM
Thank you for the links. They were exactly what I was looking for. Needing three rounds of 10mm to take down a blackie even with good shot placement was enlightening.

As to my snake issue, we have water moccasins(cottonmouths) which are perfectly comfortable on land whose normal behavior is to pursue you.

PTMCCAIN
October 14, 2012, 10:47 PM
Glock G20. If you really want to protect yourself with a 10mm, better to have 16 than 6.

'nuff said.

Here's my review video of the G20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Hrii0WUIw

crazysccrmd
October 15, 2012, 01:23 AM
That article was impressive - I didn't think a 10mm was powerful enough to punch through both shoulders at that range.

tuckerdog1
October 15, 2012, 08:14 AM
Maybe I'm a heartless old &*#%

Bears prefer to eat un-armed hippies

But that's funny.

Tuckerdog1

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