A malfunction every 28 rounds... Hi-Point C9


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Templar223
October 12, 2012, 11:59 PM
by John Boch
(Guns Save Life (http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=2527)) - Tim over at GunNuts Media has been reporting on his progress shooting his Hi-Point C9 and putting 2000 rounds through it, a few hundred at a time over the past few weeks.

He completed his project. In the end, he ran nearly 2200 rounds through it.

He kept track of the number of malfunctions and the net result?

A malfunction every 28 rounds, on average.

Is this a gun you want to defend your life or that of a loved one?

I donít think so.

Personally, Iíve had a-plenty of experience with this particular pistol over the years.

1. I owned one.

(continued... (http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=2527))


http://www.gunssavelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Img_7203s.jpg

Beauty and the beast? The most recent HiPoint C9 in action.
(Rosie, get your support hand up!)

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Certaindeaf
October 13, 2012, 12:18 AM
I heard if you hit a bad mag with a rock right it'll then put any 1911 to shame. Any rocks out his way?

MachIVshooter
October 13, 2012, 12:26 AM
Most accounts I've heard suggest the Hi Point pistols are much more reliable than that.

However, I still have no interest in owning one. I have lots of quality firearms and better things to do with an extra $150 (like buy more ammo).

Owen Sparks
October 13, 2012, 12:27 AM
My one and only experience with a brand new Hi-Point 9MM, I put 100 rounds through it without incident. It was crude and top heavy but it worked. No jams whatsoever. That being said I HATED it, but it did work.

M-Cameron
October 13, 2012, 12:36 AM
what does he define as a 'stoppage' and what does he define as a 'malfunction'?

he also never stated what ammo he used and how often it was cleaned.....for all we know he could have been shooting black powder 9mm reloads and never cleaned the thing.....

Templar223
October 13, 2012, 12:43 AM
What did he shoot and what did he consider a stoppage?

It's linked at the Guns Save Life link.

Or, for the lazy:

http://gunnuts.net/2012/10/11/the-hi-point-challenge-completed/

Certaindeaf
October 13, 2012, 12:53 AM
I didn't click on nothing. It seems half the Kimbers have to get sent back to the factory a few times to maybe then work at all.. after the 500 round "break-in" though.

MachIVshooter
October 13, 2012, 01:00 AM
what does he define as a 'stoppage' and what does he define as a 'malfunction'?

He very clearly said in the article:

A malfunction I define as the gun fails to go bang when itís supposed to for any reason. That includes failure to feed, extract, properly cycle or any other weirdness

Rail Driver
October 13, 2012, 01:07 AM
Seems to me he only wrote the article and made the post in order to bash Hi-points. I owned one years ago. It was my first pistol. It shot fairly well (3-4" groups at 30-40ft). It NEVER had a malfunction that wasn't directly attributable to bad ammunition.

I fired more than 10,000 rounds through that gun, at least 3,000 of which was garbage Norinco surplus.

I sent it back to Hi-point twice in the time I had it for warranty work. The first time was around 5500-6000 rds after a particularly heavy shooting session where I fired over 2000 rounds in one weekend (broken extractor), got the pistol back within a week looking nearly new. It went back again right before I sold it in order to have all the springs replaced and have it checked over.

MedWheeler
October 13, 2012, 01:10 AM
I heard that some states are considering legislation that proclaims certain guns (including the Hi-Point line) are so crude and unreliable that having one pulled on you is no longer considered putting you "in fear for life." The laws, if passed, will make it a crime to resist an attempted attack by someone using one by drawing your own gun (unless it's also on the list.) :rolleyes:

Rail Driver
October 13, 2012, 01:43 AM
I heard that some states are considering legislation that proclaims certain guns (including the Hi-Point line) are so crude and unreliable that having one pulled on you is no longer considered putting you "in fear for life." The laws, if passed, will make it a crime to resist an attempted attack by someone using one by drawing your own gun (unless it's also on the list.) :rolleyes:
Let me guess... New York, California, Massachusetts, Illinois, New Jersey and Hawaii? :p

TennJed
October 13, 2012, 02:15 AM
You can find bad review ony any gun if you look. One bad review vervus countless people claiming no issues on forums. I don't think the op's results are typical. I have no doubt that Hi Points have a good rep for function.

I will never own one based on size and looks, but if I needed one to protect my life, I would not feel uneasy

azgsmith
October 13, 2012, 02:44 AM
It is what it is.

Renegade Ziggy
October 13, 2012, 06:54 AM
The father in law bought one. Shot 10 rounds through it. After 2 feed failures later, and realizing I'd be just as well to pick up a rock for sd, I had to say no. I guess I'm being opinionated but even if I had shot 100 rounds and didn't have any failures, the pistol is just so cluncky and unshapely I'll have to pass.

It is what it is.

Nuff' said.

Deltaboy
October 13, 2012, 10:53 AM
I got one in 45 and I had no issues so IMO Hi-points are made in the USA have a no fault warrenty and are ugly workhorses. So this guy had issues and so have folks with Kimbers and Glocks so YMMV.

bikerdoc
October 13, 2012, 10:57 AM
So this guy had issues and so have folks with Kimbers and Glocks so YMMV.

This.

beatledog7
October 13, 2012, 11:00 AM
That Hi-Point was a lemon, far less reliable than most, by all accounts. Probably at least one marginal magazine in the test.

M-Cameron
October 13, 2012, 11:37 AM
He very clearly said in the article:

A malfunction I define as the gun fails to go bang when it’s supposed to for any reason. That includes failure to feed, extract, properly cycle or any other weirdness

then what is a stoppage?

he seems to count 'stoppages' and 'malfunctions' differently.......with only 1 malfunction and 76 stoppages....

MachIVshooter
October 13, 2012, 11:54 AM
I owned one years ago................ It NEVER had a malfunction that wasn't directly attributable to bad ammunition..................I sent it back to Hi-point twice in the time I had it for warranty work. ...............(broken extractor), got the pistol back within a week looking nearly new. It went back again right before I sold it in order to have all the springs replaced and have it checked over.

:scrutiny:

The Lone Haranguer
October 13, 2012, 12:28 PM
I had a gun that misfed nearly every round - starting with the second - and broke and shed parts on the range floor. And it cost over six times as much.

Onward Allusion
October 13, 2012, 12:29 PM
Templar223
A malfunction every 28 rounds... Hi-Point C9

Let me start by saying that I have owned many many firearms, mostly pistols. I went out and bought a HP for the heck of it just to prove a point a couple of years ago. Know what? The thing performed after a short break-in period like most guns.

When I say break-in, I am referring to firing a few hundred rounds. Not polishing ramps or chambers, swapping recoil springs...etc...etc. The only slightly different thing I had to do was to let the fully loaded mags sit for 24 hours to gain 100% reliability.

As for accuracy, not better and no worst than most service pistols I've shot. 2" groups off-hand at 7 to 10 yards. BTW, the statement below from the article has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read from a supposed gun expert. The writer must be truly blessed or haven't had much experience with firearms in general. As anyone who has owned more than a few dozen new pistols can tell you, some guns needs a break-in period to function flawlessly moving forward.

Now, granted, the Hi-Point family I met way back when was an exception and not the rule, but I’ve never had issues with Glocks, Smiths (a Sigma or two excluded) or Rugers. Heck, not even Tauruses.

Bottom line - lots of value for a buck and a half. May need break-in period. Don't believe me? Do some research on your own. Oh, it also beats the hell out of using a rock for SD.

Blue Brick
October 13, 2012, 01:30 PM
Seems to me he only wrote the article and made the post in order to bash Hi-points. I owned one years ago. It was my first pistol. It shot fairly well (3-4" groups at 30-40ft). It NEVER had a malfunction that wasn't directly attributable to bad ammunition.

I fired more than 10,000 rounds through that gun, at least 3,000 of which was garbage Norinco surplus.

I sent it back to Hi-point twice in the time I had it for warranty work. The first time was around 5500-6000 rds after a particularly heavy shooting session where I fired over 2000 rounds in one weekend (broken extractor), got the pistol back within a week looking nearly new. It went back again right before I sold it in order to have all the springs replaced and have it checked
over.

Really? 9mm?



I got one in 45 and I had no issues so IMO Hi-points are made in the USA have a no fault warrenty and are ugly workhorses. So this guy had issues and so have folks with Kimbers and Glocks so YMMV.

I'm sold.

Rail Driver
October 13, 2012, 02:28 PM
:scrutiny:

Yeah. As I mentioned a significant portion of what I shot through that gun was old chicom surplus.

A hot out of spec load with work hardened brass snapped the lip off my extractor. Problem?

@Blue Brick: Yeah, it was a 9mm

MachIVshooter
October 13, 2012, 02:49 PM
Yeah. As I mentioned a significant portion of what I shot through that gun was old chicom surplus.

A hot out of spec load with work hardened brass snapped the lip off my extractor. Problem?

Yeah.........a broken extractor is still a gun failure, not an ammo malfunction. Blame the ammo if you like, but if the gun is working properly, there should be no way that the "work hardened brass" would affect the extractor. Now, if you say the case head blew and took out the extractor, NOW we have an ammo related failure.

Apparently, what you consider ammo-related failure and what I do are two very different things. An ammo-induced stoppage to me is a round that won't feed, chamber or extract due to a verifiable defect in the cartridge or case, such as the 3 rounds out of a case of Wolf steel cased 5.56 ammo that caused stoppages in my Armalite M15A2C; These cartridges would not chamber in any gun we put them in to verify due to a grossly out-of-spec shoulder.

Bullet seated too long or short to feed properly (or at all), won't fit in the chamber, or was under/over loaded to the point that it caused a short stroke of the slide or a catastrophic failure that was obviously due to over pressure condition. These things are ammo failures.

Calling every stoppage an ammo failure just because the gun is not physically broken is not exactly being truthful. If it were, I could pretty much claim all of my guns to be malfunction free. And blaming a cartridge case that didn't fail for a broken extractor is really stretching it.

Rail Driver
October 13, 2012, 02:54 PM
Yeah.........a broken extractor is still a gun failure, not an ammo malfunction. Blame the ammo if you like, but if the gun is working properly, there should be no way that the "work hardened brass" would affect the extractor. Now, if you say the case head blew and took out the extractor, NOW we have an ammo related failure.

Apparently, what you consider ammo-related failure and what I do are two very different things. An ammo-induced stoppage to me is a round that won't feed, chamber or extract due to a verifiable defect in the cartridge or case, such as the 3 rounds out of a case of Wolf steel cased 5.56 ammo that caused stoppages in my Armalite M15A2C; These cartridges would not chamber in any gun we put them in to verify due to a grossly out-of-spec shoulder.

Bullet seated too long or short to feed properly (or at all), won't fit in the chamber, or was under/over loaded to the point that it caused a short stroke of the slide or a catastrophic failure that was obviously due to over pressure condition. These things are ammo failures.

Calling every stoppage an ammo failure just because the gun is not physically broken is not exactly being truthful. If it were, I could pretty much claim all of my guns to be malfunction free. And blaming a cartridge case that didn't fail for a broken extractor is really stretching it.
Considering you weren't there and weren't the one shooting the gun, calling me a liar is pretty much stretching it. I understand what you're saying, and in certain cases it could be true. In this case it's not. Now you seem like an intelligent person, but you're starting to border on offensive.

Your list of ammo related failures takes into account ONLY ONE THING BEING WRONG WITH THE AMMO. In my situation that wasn't the case. There was more than one thing wrong with the ammunition. Norinco surplus ammo is well known to be basically garbage, and that's the reason I was firing it through the hi-point instead of a more costly gun.

Further, your list of ammo related failures assumes one extreme or another. There is a whole spectrum of conditions that are out of specifications that don't necessarily have to be one extreme or the other.

Onward Allusion
October 13, 2012, 02:59 PM
A broken extractor at 5,000 to 6,000 rounds is not unheard of even with other "quality" makes, especially when using surplus ammo.

One also has to keep in mind that these things ARE of less quality metallurgy-wise. There can be absolutely no argument about that aspect of the pistol. However, what does one expect for $150? Y'all seem to think that for $150, one should be able to pick up a new gun and have it shoot 30,000-50,000 rounds out of it without any change in internal geometry. Pretty unrealistic, eh? If one wants a shooter like that, go pick up a trade-in S&W 915 for $100 more.

Kiln
October 13, 2012, 05:24 PM
I've seen alot of videos on youtube with Hi Points running well through a number of rounds. Everybody I talk to seems impressed with them, including a couple of guys that own much more expensive stuff.

I don't know as I haven't actually owned one myself but they seem good enough for me. I'd buy one as a glove compartment gun or a bedside gun as long as I gave it a good workout first to check function.

MachIVshooter
October 14, 2012, 12:21 AM
you're starting to border on offensive.

I apologize if I came across as hostile

Further, your list of ammo related failures assumes one extreme or another. There is a whole spectrum of conditions that are out of specifications that don't necessarily have to be one extreme or the other.

Well, that's the thing; When a gun has to have ammo that's just right to function properly, I don't consider it a reliable gun. A lot of tightly fitted race guns and the like fall into this category. A reliable firearm is one that will shoot darn near anything you throw at it without breaking, including cheap surplus and slightly out of spec or deformed ammo. This is especially important with service type or defensive handguns.

Y'all seem to think that for $150, one should be able to pick up a new gun and have it shoot 30,000-50,000 rounds out of it without any change in internal geometry

Quite the opposite, actually. We expect a $150 gun to have more stoppages and a shorter life. I expect a $500+ handgun to go at least 20,000 rounds without needing service beyond maintenance (which includes recoil springs).

I've never said that Hi Points aren't worth what they cost. I'd just rather spend more to get more. If there's $150 burning a hole in my pocket, there are plenty of accessories and ammo that I can go shopping for, not to mention non-gun things.

ljnowell
October 14, 2012, 12:36 AM
As I mentioned a significant portion of what I shot through that gun was old chicom surplus.

A hot out of spec load with work hardened brass snapped the lip off my extractor. Problem?

@Blue Brick: Yeah, it was a 9mm


I dont see brass ever work hardening to the point of breaking a steel extractor. If anything, when it work hardened it would just crack, not break the extractor.

GLOOB
October 14, 2012, 08:05 PM
Wrong test for the gun. No one buys a $150.00 gun to put hundreds of $'s worth of ammo through it in 3 weeks.

He shoulda tested how well it sits in a sock drawer after firing a couple mags of ammo, they way the gun was designed to be used. :)

But seriously, I have a feeling that the many malfunctions he had was due to either a lemon or it just didn't like the ammo he was using. And the many stoppages he witnessed in his students is obvious. Anyone that brings a Hi Point to the class probably hasn't shot it very much, or maybe not at all. Most people that shoot any kind of regularly will shell out a little more for a handgun. I've lived in urban areas before where non member-only ranges are non-existent. A lot of new shooters take a class like his just to get a chance to conveniently and legally shoot a gun for the first time.

Jim K
October 14, 2012, 08:21 PM
An extractor failure on a Hi Point seems a bit odd, since the extractor doesn't extract anything except an unfired round. All Hi Points are blowback, which means the fired case blows itself back out of the chamber without any involvement of the extractor except to act as a pivot point for the ejector.

Jim

Rail Driver
October 14, 2012, 09:31 PM
An extractor failure on a Hi Point seems a bit odd, since the extractor doesn't extract anything except an unfired round. All Hi Points are blowback, which means the fired case blows itself back out of the chamber without any involvement of the extractor except to act as a pivot point for the ejector.

Jim
Sure, when the ammunition is letting the pistol function as designed. When your ammo is out of specifications and the pistol is dirty from firing hundreds of rounds of dirty ammo, things aren't going to function properly.

I'm the one that was shooting the gun, I'm the one that experienced the failure, and I have enough common sense and intelligence to be able to figure out what happened based on the evidence that presented itself at the time. Now I understand that you people don't have the benefit of that evidence, but the fact remains that you weren't there and no matter what you think you know, you can't say with any kind of certainty that my busted extractor was caused by anything other than what I already said caused it. Seriously people, get past it now and lets move on with the topic. If you can't get past it, go get one and run some hot loads through it until the extractor snaps off for you. Either way, give it up - Like I said - I know what happened. Thanks and now we can get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Sebastian the Ibis
October 14, 2012, 09:32 PM
I heard that some states are considering legislation that proclaims certain guns (including the Hi-Point line) are so crude and unreliable that having one pulled on you is no longer considered putting you "in fear for life." The laws, if passed, will make it a crime to resist an attempted attack by someone using one by drawing your own gun (unless it's also on the list.)

A week ago I would have had a good chuckle at this. However, just last week at New York State appellate court held that Hi-Points have such a low collector value that only criminals would buy them, therefore Hi-Point can be liable for them being used in crimes.

The case is under discussion here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=680486

And a copy of the opinion is available here:
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/ad4/Clerk/Decisions/2012/10-05-12/PDF/0938.pdf

Kiln
October 15, 2012, 06:49 AM
What a load of crap. It really doesn't surprise me much in such an anti-gun state.

Jim NE
October 15, 2012, 01:00 PM
Interesting . First off, let me say I haven't read the review, so I don't know the particulars, but putting 2200 rounds through a gun even though it has an obvious problem doesn't quite make sense.

Flat tires don't fix themselves. Sometimes reliability issues can fix themselves, but I wouldn't count on it. And 2200 rounds of ammo is a pretty expensive way of fixing a reliability problem.

My problematic S&W (which I bought new) would have the same (or worse) reliability record had I not sent it back to the factory for repair, so I'm not exactly sure what this review is supposed to prove.

If he in fact DID send it back and it came back with the same problem, then you can start to draw some conclusions. As I said, I didn't read, and I'm not inclined to read, the review.

Kiln
October 16, 2012, 07:46 PM
Interesting . First off, let me say I haven't read the review, so I don't know the particulars, but putting 2200 rounds through a gun even though it has an obvious problem doesn't quite make sense.

Flat tires don't fix themselves. Sometimes reliability issues can fix themselves, but I wouldn't count on it. And 2200 rounds of ammo is a pretty expensive way of fixing a reliability problem.

My problematic S&W (which I bought new) would have the same (or worse) reliability record had I not sent it back to the factory for repair, so I'm not exactly sure what this review is supposed to prove.

If he in fact DID send it back and it came back with the same problem, then you can start to draw some conclusions. As I said, I didn't read, and I'm not inclined to read, the review.
The review was not very objective and it seems clear IMO that the writer intended to bash on the gun going into the review.

I agree that if it was having reliability issues he should've tried to correct it before shooting that much ammo. I think that the fact that the gun went 2000+ rounds (approx $400 in ammunitionand over twice the gun's value) without any parts breakages is pretty impressive for a $150 pistol with a lifetime warranty. A couple years ago everybody just KNEW that one would fly apart in a couple of mags.

Blue Brick
October 16, 2012, 08:50 PM
However, just last week at New York State appellate court held that Hi-Points have such a low collector value that only criminals would buy them, therefore Hi-Point can be liable for them being used in crimes.

I better get one quick!

FIVETWOSEVEN
October 18, 2012, 12:28 AM
If he was running steel ammo, that's the problem. Hi Points don't like steel cased stuff. With brass they run great.

BSA1
October 19, 2012, 11:23 AM
I believe a person should buy the best quality product they can for their income level. High Points do not meet my personal expections of the best quality gun I can afford.

JustinJ
October 19, 2012, 01:38 PM
All makers produce at least the occasional lemon but i certainly wouldn't bet my life on a high point.

Funny thing is i don't think i've ever seen one at the range. I'm curious how much the guns were actually shot by the reviewers who say theirs is reliable.

Rail Driver
October 19, 2012, 02:08 PM
All makers produce at least the occasional lemon but i certainly wouldn't bet my life on a high point.

Funny thing is i don't think i've ever seen one at the range. I'm curious how much the guns were actually shot by the reviewers who say theirs is reliable.
And sometimes I find myself wondering how many people bashing them have ever fired one, much less owned one.

ljnowell
October 19, 2012, 04:21 PM
And sometimes I find myself wondering how many people bashing them have ever fired one, much less owned one.

I did. They are cheap and I wouldnt own another one, I can afford better.

Rail Driver
October 19, 2012, 04:34 PM
I did. They are cheap and I wouldnt own another one, I can afford better.
That may be the case, however just because they are inexpensive and "less" than you're able to afford doesn't mean that everyone can afford better, and it doesn't mean they're unreliable garbage as some have either implied or outright said.

To top it off, Hi-Point has one of THE BEST warranties in the firearms industry, and has significantly BETTER customer service than nearly every other firearms company I've dealt with.

I had a great experience with my Hi-Point right up until I sold it. I wouldn't hesitate to own another, even though I have more expensive firearms. They have their purpose.

ljnowell
October 19, 2012, 06:13 PM
That may be the case, however just because they are inexpensive and "less" than you're able to afford doesn't mean that everyone can afford better, and it doesn't mean they're unreliable garbage as some have either implied or outright said.

To top it off, Hi-Point has one of THE BEST warranties in the firearms industry, and has significantly BETTER customer service than nearly every other firearms company I've dealt with.

I had a great experience with my Hi-Point right up until I sold it. I wouldn't hesitate to own another, even though I have more expensive firearms. They have their purpose.


No, you didnt read what I said. I didnt say inexpensive, I said cheap. There is a big difference. My Rock Island Armory 1911 was inexpensive. It was a decently made firearm that was reliable, solid, and dependable also. The Hi-point is a cheap firearm. The seams om the plastic, the thickness of it, the feel of it, the pot metal slide, etc. Its cheap.

As far as warranty goes, their warranty isnt all that special. My friend had an issue with his RIA 1911, they picked up shipping both ways, fixed the gun, did a few upgrades even while they had it. My uncle had a Springfield 1911 that had issues, same thing. They picked up shipping both ways, and in his case replaced a three year old gun with a new one.

If its all a person can afford, then I am happy for them that they have it. I would NEVER disparage a person with one for owning one. I would gladly have the portion of non gun owning Americans all buy one to keep for protection. I have shot next to many people at the range and see them enjoy their pistol and would never make a negative statement, in fact the opposite, I would agree with all of their praise because thats the gun they worked hard to pay for and they should be proud of that.

All of that doesnt change the fact that its a cheap gun that will never have the quality of a better made firearm.

Kiln
October 19, 2012, 07:25 PM
While it is true that most high quality manufacturers pay shipping both ways, their guns also sell well above the price range of a Hi Point. When you pay $450+ for a handgun they should pick up the tab for shipping because you paid that much.

Show me another gun that has an unconditional lifetime warranty that costs $150. I'd like to own a C9 just to have a gun that I don't mind getting scratched and beaten up.

ljnowell
October 19, 2012, 07:28 PM
Show me another gun that has an unconditional lifetime warranty that costs $150. I'd like to own a C9 just to have a gun that I don't mind getting scratched and beaten up.

So thats the only good feature of it? Thats all I keep hearing is the warranty. Its definately not its ergonomics, compact size, high capacity, great trigger, or awesome sights.

Its great for what it is, but when you start comparing it to better made quality firearms its a losing comparison every time.

Kiln
October 19, 2012, 07:37 PM
So thats the only good feature of it? Thats all I keep hearing is the warranty. Its definately not its ergonomics, compact size, high capacity, great trigger, or awesome sights.

Its great for what it is, but when you start comparing it to better made quality firearms its a losing comparison every time.
Actually it is the price that is impressive. There's nothing in the same price range in a respectable caliber worth buying.

ljnowell
October 19, 2012, 07:57 PM
Actually it is the price that is impressive. There's nothing in the same price range in a respectable caliber worth buying.

Thats whay I meant by:
Its great for what it is, but when you start comparing it to better made quality firearms its a losing comparison every time

They are great for what they are, a gun everyone can afford. Some people want to insist they are more

Kiln
October 19, 2012, 08:44 PM
Thats whay I meant by:


They are great for what they are, a gun everyone can afford. Some people want to insist they are more
Yes I understand that, my point was that you shouldn't try to compare the quality to a gun twice the price. I don't think anyone will try to tell you that a Hi Point is as high quality as an XDM but for what it is the quality is sufficient.

Blue Brick
October 19, 2012, 09:17 PM
So thats the only good feature of it? Thats all I keep hearing is the warranty. Its definately not its ergonomics, compact size, high capacity, great trigger, or awesome sights.

Its great for what it is, but when you start comparing it to better made quality firearms its a losing comparison every time.

1911 Colt Commander

Weight 32.5/33 oz
Length 7.75
Barrel length 4.25 in (Commander model)
Capacity 7-round standard detachable box magazine

Hi-Point JHP 45ACP

Weight 35 oz
Length 7.75 in
Barrel length 4.5 in
Capacity 9-round standard detachable box magazine (or modified 7 rd 1911 mags)

Ergonomics-----------------Same grip angle

Compact size---------------Overall length same (Hi-Point is wider)

Capacity-------------------7 rounds compared to 9 rounds

Trigger---------------------Single action 1911 should be better

Sights----------------------Similar (Hi-Point does include a ghost ring sight for free)

Price-----------------------Hi-Point is less expensive

Warranty-------------------Hi-Point is better



Side note: I don’t own a Hi-Point, but my next firearm will be a Hi-Point JHP Model in 45 ACP.

BudW
October 20, 2012, 12:47 AM
One gun tested, not what I would call scientific, does the tester have a agenda?

FIVETWOSEVEN
October 20, 2012, 01:40 AM
Ergonomics-----------------Same grip angle

Grip shape is the biggest part in ergonomics.

Compact size---------------Overall length same (Hi-Point is wider)

Width makes all the difference.

Capacity-------------------7 rounds compared to 9 rounds

Hi Points have a longer grip and you can get many different capacity magazines. 8 round magazines are the industry standard for 1911s now.

Other features that the Hi Point doesn't have is a proper external slide lock that allows for faster reloads and a extremely large aftermarket support to set up the gun to exactly what you want.

Hi Points are decent handguns but they don't really compare to 1911s other than being a handgun.

ljnowell
October 20, 2012, 02:01 AM
1911 Colt Commander

Weight 32.5/33 oz
Length 7.75
Barrel length 4.25 in (Commander model)
Capacity 7-round standard detachable box magazine

Hi-Point JHP 45ACP

Weight 35 oz
Length 7.75 in
Barrel length 4.5 in
Capacity 9-round standard detachable box magazine (or modified 7 rd 1911 mags)

Ergonomics-----------------Same grip angle

Compact size---------------Overall length same (Hi-Point is wider)

Capacity-------------------7 rounds compared to 9 rounds

Trigger---------------------Single action 1911 should be better

Sights----------------------Similar (Hi-Point does include a ghost ring sight for free)

Price-----------------------Hi-Point is less expensive

Warranty-------------------Hi-Point is better



Side note: I donít own a Hi-Point, but my next firearm will be a Hi-Point JHP Model in 45 ACP.
I'm not sure why you picked the 1911, because that wasnt even what I had in mind.

First, grip angle isnt the only aspect of ergonomics. There is grip thickness, diameter, grip shape, safety location, mag feed entry, balance, recoil impulse, etc. Cherry picking some dimensions and saying and comparing it in that way is just like saying "look its just like a 1911 in its ergos" which couldnt be more false.

Since its polymer it would be a much better comparison to an xd, m&p, Glock, etc. All of which have better ergonomics, even the glock.

Look, why not just take it for what it is, a good, cheap handgun. Its nothing more or less.

Yes I understand that, my point was that you shouldn't try to compare the quality to a gun twice the price. I don't think anyone will try to tell you that a Hi Point is as high quality as an XDM but for what it is the quality is sufficient.

Look at the post directly below yours. People do it all the time.

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 20, 2012, 02:42 AM
One gun tested, not what I would call scientific, does the tester have a agenda?
Not sure about an agenda, but likely a budget. Hi-Point produced 398,889 C9 handguns the most recent 5 years data is available (2006-2010, inclusive). To do testing that would be considered scientific, or at least statistically significant for the guns produced over that time, one would need to need a much larger sample than one pistol, of course. If we wanted to be 95% confident of the percentage of guns that would have the same results as our test guns, +/-5%, we'd only need to test 384 guns. Buying 384 at once, I bet we could get a pretty good discount and maybe get them down to around $110 each. That means we only need to come up with $42,240 for the guns. To duplicate the test, we'd need 2,200 rounds of 9mm for each gun. That's 844,800 rounds. I bet we'd get a better discount if we went for an even million, but let's say we manage to get them for 12 cents a round ($120/1000). That means our ammo budget is $101,376.

For a mere $143,616, we can scientifically reproduce this test with a reasonable amount of confidence.

Who's in?

(I think. I'm a little rusty at stats these days. :))

Brockak47
October 20, 2012, 02:45 AM
What's the point of this thread? to bash Hi-point?

TimboKhan
October 20, 2012, 03:13 AM
Bashing hi-points or any other brand is unacceptable.

This has remained relatively civil, but I am closing it before it gets overly heated, which I am already seeing the signs of.

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