So, I want to talk Gun Confiscation.


PDA






.Scarecrow.
October 13, 2012, 05:42 PM
You hear all these threads about Burying guns and hiding them in walls and it seems hard to say which one is the way to go. I would really like to save my prized AR through the good and bad times, even the Really bad times. What is the best way to ensure I can? Or at least try to. Arguably you could also say that all these are bad ideas being they are all over the internet for everyone to see, but still.

If you enjoyed reading about "So, I want to talk Gun Confiscation." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Husker_Fan
October 13, 2012, 05:48 PM
Let's see, 49 of 50 states have concealed carry, reciprocity and shall-issue have been getting better and better, and there is no federal AWB or magazine restrictions. I don't think this is the "bad times" by a long shot.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep up the lobbying and other efforts to defeat encroachments on our rights.

TAKtical
October 13, 2012, 05:49 PM
Are you proposing something illegal? No one here will advise you on the best way to commit a crime.

.Scarecrow.
October 13, 2012, 05:52 PM
Guess reading up on stuff makes you think ****s going to go down soon. And I'm not sure if it is I who is being the Troll. And If I have seen others posting about the same topic, why do I get crap and they don't. I sometimes tire over this whole Forum thing.

Husker_Fan
October 13, 2012, 05:53 PM
I apologize. I'll edit.

Arkansas Paul
October 13, 2012, 05:58 PM
We're The High Road. We follow the law. We encourage you to do the same.

.Scarecrow.
October 13, 2012, 05:58 PM
Thank you, I'm a little confused though. People seemed to have a different input on this

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-533335.html

razorback2003
October 13, 2012, 06:01 PM
AR's are some of the most popular rifles around now. They were not that popular in 1994 when NEW AR's with flash hiders were not available for sale.

Balrog
October 13, 2012, 06:05 PM
I dont understand why several people here are accusing you of something illegal. To my knowledge there is no law that forbids burying guns or hiding them in walls. Perhaps these illuminati who are accusing you could educate the rest of us on what they are talking about?

rondog
October 13, 2012, 06:07 PM
JMHO, but this is AMERICA. Not some third-world dictatorship. Any government here that wants to confiscate all privately owned weapons will have to use our police and military personnel, who just happen to be our fathers, sons, friends, neighbors and relatives to do so. And I personally see that being a uphill battle for a government to get those folks to turn against all of us.

I don't know, but I'm kinda doubtful that any politicians can make that happen here. Maybe I'm just naive though.

Rail Driver
October 13, 2012, 06:10 PM
The picture I get from this is that if the powers that be declare the civilian ownership of firearms illegal and attempt confiscation (as they did recently in Australia), most members of THR.org will simply hand theirs over with a smile and a handshake, because that's what "The Law" says.

Sorry, not me.

If that day ever comes, I'll be waiting for them, locked and loaded. Some things are worth dying for. Freedom, my family, and my right to defend both are worth laying down my life for if necessary.

JMHO, but this is AMERICA. Not some third-world dictatorship. Any government here that wants to confiscate all privately owned weapons will have to use our police and military personnel, who just happen to be our fathers, sons, friends, neighbors and relatives to do so. And I personally see that being a uphill battle for a government to get those folks to turn against all of us.

I don't know, but I'm kinda doubtful that any politicians can make that happen here. Maybe I'm just naive though.

That's what the Australians thought too.

beatledog7
October 13, 2012, 06:12 PM
If by some wild stretch of the imagination we were subjected to a legally enacted nationwide confiscation of all firearms, and somebody cached a gun rather than turning it in, that act would be patently illegal.

The reporting of "boating accidents" and like would also be illegal.

But I think in this case, America would rise up and do what 2A meant for us to be able to do. There's just so much control we'll tolerate.

USAF_Vet
October 13, 2012, 06:28 PM
Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what to do. I'm one of those who thinks if its time to bury them, it's time to use them.

But I think we are a loooooong way away from any guv'mint gun round up.

And nice to see another West Michigander on the forum.

jdh
October 13, 2012, 06:41 PM
How about a fire?
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/DSCN0658.jpg
The contents of my fire rated gun safe in case you are wondering.
and the safe as found:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/DSCN0393.jpg

cyclopsshooter
October 13, 2012, 07:00 PM
jdh... sob*

M-Cameron
October 13, 2012, 07:01 PM
Oxymoron of the day goes to.....

If by some wild stretch of the imagination we were subjected to a legally enacted nationwide confiscation of all firearms, and somebody cached a gun rather than turning it in, that act would be patently illegal.

The reporting of "boating accidents" and like would also be illegal.

But I think in this case, America would rise up and do what 2A meant for us to be able to do. There's just so much control we'll tolerate.


there can be no such thing as a legally enacted firearm confiscation....it is in direct conflict with the 2A and various supreme court rulings.

Warp
October 13, 2012, 07:05 PM
You hear all these threads about Burying guns and hiding them in walls and it seems hard to say which one is the way to go. I would really like to save my prized AR through the good and bad times, even the Really bad times. What is the best way to ensure I can? Or at least try to. Arguably you could also say that all these are bad ideas being they are all over the internet for everyone to see, but still.

Vote. Do so after properly informing yourself about the candidates.

Encourage others to vote, and to be informed.

Get out and work booths, tables, shoots, etc for all of your local grassroots pro 2A organizations.



jdh: Was that a safe, or a residential security container?

Did it come from a regular old big box store?

colorado_handgunner
October 13, 2012, 07:26 PM
Confiscation cannot occur. The US Constitution prohibits the enactment of, I believe the term is, ex-post-facto (thanks mljdeckard!) laws. Meaning a law cannot be used against you for actions committed before the law was passed. Since you legally acquired your guns and possessed them before a ban occurred, you must be allowed to keep them, just not buy more. This is why there were still high capacity magazines around during the Clinton "Assault Weapons" Ban.

If the government actually did try confiscation, then it has thrown the Constitution out the Window on this Tennant and the 2a. If that occurred, I think more Americans would use said guns than hand them over, if you catch my meaning.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

beatledog7
October 13, 2012, 07:31 PM
it is in direct conflict with the 2A and various supreme court rulings.

The Constitution has been amended 27 times, and as we have seen many times, SCOTUS' decisions are unpredictable. The next President of the US will likely appoint to Justices.

All it would have taken is one changed vote in Heller to uphold the DC ban.

Ryanxia
October 13, 2012, 07:35 PM
I believe the OP is referring to a nationwide ban on firearms which according to the Constitution of the United States is illegal so any circumvention of such law would in fact be completely legal.

Just one comment, if you hide it in the walls, make sure it's near a switch/socket so a metal detector wouldn't pick up something that 'shouldn't be there'.

My suggestion, coat it in and out with cosmoline and bury it somewhere a metal detector wouldn't detect it. (Buying half an acre for cheap somewhere in town would be helpful).

Ryanxia
October 13, 2012, 07:46 PM
I would also mention that just because laws state now that you are 'grandfathered in' doesn't mean that will be the case in the future.

Laws are written by men and can always change. That knowledge is the difference between men and sheep.

1-1 Banger
October 13, 2012, 07:51 PM
There's an old Army FM that covers caches. Has some good stuff in it. Unfortunately "they" have it too so get creative if it ever gets bad enough to bury the old hog leg

Lost Sheep
October 13, 2012, 07:56 PM
Confiscation cannot occur. The US Constitution prohibits the enactment of, I believe the term is, post design facto laws. Meaning a law cannot be used against you for actions committed before the law was passed. Since you legally acquired your guns and possessed them before a ban occurred, you must be allowed to keep them, just not buy more. This is why there were still high capacity magazines around during the Clinton "Assault Weapons" Ban.

If the government actually did try confiscation, then it has thrown the Constitution out the Window on this Tennant and the 2a. If that occurred, I think more Americans would use said guns than hand them over, if you catch my meaning.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
"ex post facto" laws make an act that occurred in the past punishable by law now.

That means your legal purchase of a gun 10 years ago will not land you in jail today. However, a law making continued possession of a previously legally owned gun is not ex post facto and conceivably could be passed. Depending on the makeup of the court, also pass Constitutional muster.

I believe there were (how many is open to question) personal firearms were taken from citizens during the Hurricane Katrina period. I am certain, that during a time of regional disaster, aid stations, hospitals, etc will not be allowing you to enter while armed. If you don't have friends or an organization to store you arms while you get your broken arm fixed, you will likely find whatever you have confiscated and may or may not get it back until you sue whoever took it in court. How long would that take?

The only real protection (that does not involve violence) against (unconstitutional) usurpation of your rights is to get involved and to stay involved in your government, society and neighborhoods.

Lost Sheep

mljdeckard
October 13, 2012, 07:58 PM
Ethically correct and constitutional do not equal legal.

Echoing post #13. If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up.

They don't have to search and confiscate from every house. They will first ask for a voluntary turn-in, and make a list from those who refused.

captain awesome
October 13, 2012, 07:58 PM
We're The High Road. We follow the law. We encourage you to do the same.

I don't recall ever seeing any law against storing your firearms in a wall, or burying them.

And anyone assuming that our own military and police force would never do such terrible things, think again. They won't likely do it to their OWN family, just like a LEO won't give a ticket to his own family members(usually), but he has NO PROBLEM at all giving YOU one. Firearm confiscation would likely be the same. Read about some other atrocities committed world wide, countries against their own citizens, and you will know it could happen to any one. There have been a few small ones right here in the good Ol' USA, but nobody talks about it. It gives them the heeby jeebies. What happened to the bonus army after WW1 certainly wasn't neighborly.

mljdeckard
October 13, 2012, 07:59 PM
Lautenberg is ex-post-facto, and it's very much the law.

.Scarecrow.
October 13, 2012, 08:04 PM
To jdh, I am sorry for your loss. It's almost one of those things that I would be so pissed off at that I would just say screw it and start over. And to USAF Vet, Thanks! back at you too. Back on topic though, if such a thing happened one day, I've also thought about the theory of, what if I just wasn't there. As in maybe me and some friends were to just go up to the various cabins our family's own, Or stay on some land my buddy has way up north. I also think that I might possibly get passed by, I live roughly 25 miles from the nearest Metro area, in an area that could be described as somewhere between a small town and the boonies. There are houses around me, but not many. And if these statements sound unintelligent to anyone then I apologize. I am still learning how things work.

Zoogster
October 13, 2012, 08:12 PM
A broad gun ban is very unlikely.

They don't bite off that much.

Far more likely is individual gun bans, ie prohibited persons growing and the list of things that can make someone prohibted becoming easier. Be it crimes that are petty and can remove firearm rights growing in number, or being declared to think wrong (mental illness), and similar categories, that is a much more likely outcome.

This already occurs. In California for example they maintain a list of handguns, and starting soon rifles, automatically registered, and required to be registered by those moving in. This list is regularly checked against a list of new prohibited persons. When a known firearm owner becomes a prohibted person they get flagged in the system known as the PROHIBITED ARMED PERSONS FILE. At which point law enforcement will deal with them as such, and eventually may get around to raiding them on probable cause of illegal possession of firearms.
The whole purpose of the system is to go after former legal firearm owners that have for some reason become prohibited.
They do occasional raids and sweeps using the database as a list.
In California many petty things can make someone prohibited, including both felonies and misdemeanors that in other states are not illegal or are not prohibiting offenses.

The brilliance in the strategy is other gun owners will turn on former legal owners once they become the prohibited scourge, and pro firearm rights groups will distance themselves from them. So confiscation on a growing individual front does not face the same type of united pro-gun front or legal, financial, or political resistance, and so can proceed much more fluidly.




As to the OP, when the feds target someone specifically that they believe to be hiding something they search quite thoroughly. Anything in a home or buried on property owned or in known use by that person is likely to be found. Ground penetrating radar is standard in thorough searches, they don't even need a backhoe to search the whole yard fairly easily anymore.
Any storage units or anything else in the persons name or known to be connected to the person will also be searched. The residence of family members or those in a relationship with the person may also be searched.

hso
October 13, 2012, 08:16 PM
Firstly, there's no reasonable expectation that any firearms confiscation will take place. Folks fixated on this are stuck in the '90s when people feared the Assault Weapons Ban would lead to confiscation (and were clearly proven wrong).

Secondly, if you want to cache firearms as a security measure then there's nothing illegal about doing it.

Sky
October 13, 2012, 08:20 PM
Do not remember where I heard this but guys who are into that sort of thing take PVC pipe in large diameter and place the treasures inside and the bury them in a location known only to them. Bottom cap is glued and the top cap is placed on over some kind of thin plastic to help form a water tight seal.

I once knew a preacher who buried $5000 in a pickle jar. He went back in about a year and most of his money had been eaten by some kind of fungus!!

Back when the Brits were going house to house; a few yanks decided to not pay the taxes or turn in their guns. Needless to say 'one' against an army who knows what they are doing is a losing proposition for the one. When the Brits moved to take a warehouse of arms in force that is when the yanks got organized and met the Brits. Even though losing 93 ? (been a long time since American history 101 so details may be a bit off but you get the drift?) the Brits were turned back and the war was on. Paul Revere and another guy fits in there someplace or maybe I made it all up!?

I always liked Patton's speech in the movie where he said something to the effect, " It is not your duty to die for your country but to make the other sob die for his"! Truer words have never been spoken IMO.

If the hundred and worst knocks on you door and says we know you have 36 firearms and we are here to take them and we will give you a receipt it might be wise to turn them over. If you are going to die for what you believe in then make the body count of your enemy mean something.

I think there would be plenty more weapons for you to choose from once Americans become aware of what is going on. Most of the guys on this board could probably arm a platoon of like minded individuals. United we stand etc etc but a lone wolf is just demonized and shot.

Let us all hope and pray it never comes to having to make that choice in the good ole USA. If the command to turn in your firearms is executed it will be from some model already used. Look at England or Australia for a couple of recent examples.

America is a different animal simply due to our Constitution yet there are those who continually fight to have the 2d watered down to the point of non existence. Chicago and N.Y. come to mind.

Easy to die, but hard to fight smart for what you believe in. These next 4 years there may be 2 Supreme Court Justices retire; so now is not the time to be turned off by the shenanigans of either party. Pick your best choice or the lessor of two evils however you think and vote and hopefully common sense will take care of the rest.

Carl N. Brown
October 13, 2012, 08:22 PM
ATF has decided over the years that certain formerly NFA firearms restricted under the 1934 National Firearms Act (like original Mauser pistols with original shoulder stocks or accurate replica shoulder stocks, or original Winchester or Marlin "trapper" rifles made before 1934 with barrels shorter than 16") are no longer restricted Title II Short Barrel Rifles ($200 registration tax) but are curios and relics more desirable as collectibles than as weapons, and are treated legally as ordinary Title I pistols or rifles.

Where have these guns been between 1934 and the date ATF put them on the Curio and Relic list?

jdh
October 13, 2012, 08:31 PM
Cannon RSC from Tractor Supply. Fire burned uncontrolled for 6 days in my neighborhood. Even a real safe would not have saved the contents.

I have a new one. Cannon replaced under warranty.

Sky
October 13, 2012, 08:41 PM
only an idiot would bury paper money. it becomes worth only half as much in 15 years. bury 1/10oz gold coins, and don't trade one for a loaf of bread, either. cut it in half, it will be accepted, and trade it for a bushel of grain. crack the grain and make porridge, that's much more efficient than wasting resources on making bread.

hahahah that reminds me I really should buy a metal detector!!

orionengnr
October 13, 2012, 08:43 PM
Any government here that wants to confiscate all privately owned weapons will have to use our police and military personnel, who just happen to be our fathers, sons, friends, neighbors and relatives to do so.
Yes, but...stop and think about this a bit. I am now 55 years old, and pay close attention to politics, etc.

When I was in the military (enlisted in '76) I had no idea what the Second Amendment was. I knew (in theory) the difference between a Lawful Order and an Unlawful order, and I knew that I had (theoretically) the right to refuse an Unlawful Order, but I am honestly doubting that I would have been able to differentiate between the two at that time (or for some time thereafter).

As much faith and regard as I have for today's uniformed service members, I have to face the reality that most of them were educated by a school system that has inclined so far to the Left these days that it almost lies horizontal.

The vast majority of junior officer corps came up through today's colleges, which only offer four additional years of leftist indoctrination. As I closed in on retirement, I noted more and more junior officers who had decidedly Left-leaning philosophies...and there are Flag offiers such as Wesley Clark who personify Leftist views, with the horsepower to back it up. How many more are like him?

We (effectively) trashed Posse Comitatus during Katrina. When you were a 20 year old junior enlisted, had you ever heard of Posse Comitatus? I sure hadn't, and I guarantee you that today's high school education is not terribly Constitution based.

Oath Keepers is great in theory, but I cannot imagine that any large number of our current officer corps has ever heard of that, either.

Sorry to paint a dark picture, but...do your own research. I don't think you will be encouraged by what you find.

Sky
October 13, 2012, 08:52 PM
Any government here that wants to confiscate all privately owned weapons will have to use our police and military personnel, who just happen to be our fathers, sons, friends, neighbors and relatives to do so.

Yes, but...stop and think about this a bit. I am now 55 years old, and pay close attention to politics, etc.

When I was in the military (enlisted in '76) I had no idea what the Second Amendment was. I knew (in theory) the difference between a Lawful Order and an Unlawful order, and I knew that I had (theoretically) the right to refuse an Unlawful Order, but I am honestly doubting that I would have been able to differentiate between the two at that time (or for some time thereafter.

As much faith and regard as I have for today's uniformed service members, I have to face the reality that most of them were educated by a school system that has inclined so far to the Left these days that it almost lies horizontal.

The vast majority of junior officer corps came up through today's colleges, which only offer four additional years of leftist indoctrination. As I closed in on retirement, I noted more and more junior officers who had decidedly Left-leaning philosophies...and there are Flag offiers such as Wesley Clark who personify Leftist views, with the horsepower to back it up. How many more are like him?

We (effectively) trashed Posse Comitatus during Katrina. When you were a 20 year old junior enlisted, had you ever heard of Posse Comitatus? I sure hadn't, and I guarantee you that today's high school education is not terribly Constitution based.

Oath Keepers is great in theory, but I cannot imagine that any large number of our current officer corps has ever heard of that, either.

Sorry to paint a dark picture, but...do your own research. I don't think you will be encouraged by what you find.

Pretty much my experience too.

I had guys in my unit who wanted to level Kent State back in the 60s but hopefully times have changed for the better. Fox had a brief blurb today about Hillery and the U.N. small arms agreement (considering, signing??) sometime in January if I casually heard the broadcast correctly.

tomrkba
October 13, 2012, 09:00 PM
I do not see how hiding your only guns makes any sense if anything happens that would make it necessary to hide your guns. You are going to need them at that moment.

Sky
October 13, 2012, 09:34 PM
We have all heard of a military fighting the last war and losing. With the technology available today http://www.boeing.com/bds/mediakit/2012/mdm/night_eagle_bkgd_march2012.pdf a band of guys and there AKs/ARs against a truly determined foe....

We need a popcorn icon!

There is a difference between nation building and extermination in my humble opinion; but there are those who will do what they feel they need to do regardless. There is a cable series called Strike Back that is actually pretty good in many ways especially with regards to surveillance and where we are going or will be capable of going in the not to distant future..

hso
October 13, 2012, 09:36 PM
Good ideal on putting them by electric wire and a switch of outlet.


Nope, won't help stop thieves with with detection modern equipment. Most of the screwball ideas don't actually work against thieves with modern detection equipment and people don't want to go to the trouble of using the ones that would work against current technology, much less future tech.

SHTF and TEOTWAWKI threads don't run on THR and this one's falling into that category.

Spend the time fretting and studying this sort of thing on actually working to prevent it happening and we'll all be better off.

michaelbsc
October 13, 2012, 09:36 PM
These are the discussions that get references on the left's blogs as evidence for what nut-cases the right is controlled by.

Quit worrying about hiding your guns. *IF* it ever came to that then you missed the boat by several election cycles anyway.

Worried about it now? What did you do to turn out the vote in the direction you think it needs to go?

You still have a few weeks. Get hot. Work a phone bank. Put your time in on the front end, because you won't win if your fears come to pass and you're defending against the authorities.

Learn to answer an opponent with a reasoned answer rather than a talk radio sound bite. I might like Rush as much as he next guy, but regurgitating his talking point answers to heir talking points is less effective than truly understanding in a way that lets you defend your side.

Work with the local police auxiliary if there's one around you. Make them know you as a reasonable human being, and be part of that community rather than looking at hem as he enemy. They aren't really the enemy.

Quit thinking that "they" are out to get "us" and become the government. They can't be out to get us if we're they!

As Plato observed, the trouble with staying out of politics is that you're then destined to be ruled by your inferiors.

If you enjoyed reading about "So, I want to talk Gun Confiscation." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!