[GWARGHOUL]

I was talked into putting one of these on layaway today at my LGS.

He told me, and it appeared to have a chrome lined barrel, but I cannot actually tell, as I don't carry a bore-light in my pocket (yet!)..

He field stripped it, and there appeared to be a slight chrome like look to the tip of the chamber, thats about the best I could see..

The guy told me it was not a heavy barrel, but not a pencil barrel either, ok.. fair enough I can vouch that is true.

Everything is supposed to be Mil-Spec...

Comes new in box, with three 30 round magazines..

I have a few questions..

This is my first AR. I like that its from a name brand...

1.Does DPMS build a good AR?

2. Is chrome lining really that important, and is this barrel in fact chrome lined?

3. I can always get another upper, like a PSA with a heavier barrel and a chrome lining and it will fit right on, correct?

4. The buffer tube... its commercial sized.. does that matter, and can/should I change it to military size?

Out the door, after all is said and done, I'm paying like $740. After transfer fees and such, thats really not much more than one of those discount online retailers.. and ya gotta support the LGS even if it means paying $60 more here and there.

So.. is this a good gun, reasonable deal, and I pose the questions above..

Thanks guys..

[GWARGHOUL]

I want to add that I'm not looking to become a 600 yard match shooter with this thing. I jsut want it to last, and be able to hit things a bit better than my SAIGA 7.62x39, and add a decent optic.

[firesky101]

1. You will get a variety of opinions. The important part is you test your equipment so you know it works. Even the best manufacturers will put out a lemon.

2. You will receive a variety of opinions on this as well. I prefer Stainless steel barrels, but in an AR shooting 5.56 chrome lining is not that big a deal IMO.

3. Yes you can drop a new upper right on your old lower, but the finish may not match perfectly.

4. Only worry about it if you plan on changing stocks.

[skywalkrNCSU]

DPMS = Freedom Group

That should be enough to tell you about their quality

[GWARGHOUL]

I'm thinking of cancelling this lay-away, and seeing if he has something better with a chrome lined barrel, or using the deposit for a transfer of a PSA that has the stuff I want.

I'de still have a credit on transfer, which would come in handy for the Taurus 85 SS I want also.

[GWARGHOUL]

DPMS = Freedom Group

That should be enough to tell you about their quality

Funny you say that, as the fit, and finish were better than the colt and windhams he had on hand.

the others had mill marks abd burrs and such. The DPMS did not.

My main concern is this barrel situation.

[mnrivrat]

You bought a good gun at a good price. I believe DPMS chrome lines all their barrels or at least did . I would take the seller at his word on that or you can go to the DPMS web site and look up the info there.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the DPMS guns . You don't need a $1,000 + Ar to get a good gun.

[JPG19]

I think you're putting too much emphasis on the chrome lining of a barrel. The general consensus is that it extends barrel life but decreases accuracy so unless you're planning on shooting an insane amount of rounds through this thing quickly, I wouldn't worry too much about it (if anything, I'd search for a chrome lined BCG, pin, bore, & chamber). I'd be more concerned with other things such as the type of steel used, does it have M4 feed ramps? Were the BCG & barrel MPI and HPT? What twist rate do you need? Does it have an M16 BCH/ is the firing pin shrouded? Does it have a black extractor spring? Is the FSB 'F' marked and is the barrel coated underneath it? Are things properly staked, such as the gas key?, etc., etc... To me, all of these things add up to give you a fairly good idea as to the quality and amount of time/thought that went into the design and assembly of the rifle.

Personally, I prefer to save my money for as long as it takes to buy "the best" and by using this general rule of thumb I am yet to be disappointed with any of my weapon/gear purchases. I build/purchase my weapons and gear as if I were going to be bringing them into war with me soon as I fear a societal collapse in our lifetime and have a family and bug-out location to defend. If it were me I'd cancel the order, do my due diligence and research what I need out of the rifle, and find out which companies offer what I need. Next comes both personal and professional reviews and, finally, a PURCHASE!!!

Best of luck to you in your search, I hope you find what you need. And last but certainly not least, WELCOME TO THE EVIL BLACK RIFLE CLUB!!

-James

p.s. Here is a good place to start: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html

[meanmrmustard]

DPMS = Freedom Group

That should be enough to tell you about their quality
This. The only DPMS I'd own as of late is the Prairie Panther.

For what you're paying, you could get an M&P Sport, a superior rifle in that price range or cheaper. For only $50 more, you're in PSA complete rifle range. Either of those, IME and opinion, are much better, more reliable rifles. I've seen too many Oracles and Sportacles choke.

Good luck.

[meanmrmustard]

I'm thinking of cancelling this lay-away, using the deposit for a transfer of a PSA that has the stuff I want.
Smart man.;)

[JPG19]

You're also only $60 away from a Spike's Tactical rifle, which is what I run and could NOT be happier with. It's a truly fantastic rifle and checks all the correct boxes.

[Rob96]

I have experienced with four different DPMS AR's and all rann/run fine. My most recent purchase is the DPMS MK 12, which has an 18" stainless heavy barrel with 1:8 twist topped with a phanton flash hider, four rail free float tube, MI flip up front and rear sights, mil-spec buffer tube and LMT SOPMOD stock. I purchased it used but never fired for $799. I couldn't pass that up as NIB price is $1500. This is one put together rifle and it shoots. N

[GWARGHOUL]

Oh, tis the confusion.. gonna go over to spikes.. but pretty set on PSA.

Were the BCG & barrel MPI and HPT? What twist rate do you need? Does it have an M16 BCH/

Heard the answer to all of that with DPMS is no?



Wish this store was open today to remedy the situation.

[mastiffhound]

Most don't reguard DPMS as a decent gun company. If so many don't like them, must be a reason. They are too expensive for non mil-spec. This is because for the same money(+ or -$100) you can get a full mil-spec AR. They were purchased by a company not known for quality, but known for cutting corners and employees. Giving them money is like making your son a cake for burning down your house. It is just a all around bad idea. Palmetto State, Bravo Company, Colt, or even a place like Model 1 sales(not saying they are bad, they just aren't as well known to most) is money better spent. I'm starting to look at Bolt actions and buying a Remington would be a Freedom group purchase also. Plus my poll has a Savage in the lead. Marlin is also owned by Freedom Group, their quality has went down alot too.

[RCArms.com]

There is nothing wrong with DPMS products in the same way that there is nothing wrong with Colt, Spikes, PSA, Bushmaster, Windam, etc, etc. It's more of a preference issue and Fan Following that steers opinions.

I own more that a few AR's and SBR platforms and have no issue with any of the DPMS Uppers or Lowers in my stable. That being said, I have no issues with any other brand that I own either.

[GWARGHOUL]

Spikes is back-ordered.. guess I'll go with PSA.

Its an investment that I'm not going to sell, and want the best for my money.

I think the guy had good intentions, but fell short telling me that it was not a light barrel, and that it was chrome lines.

Of course... they are not open today, so I cannot resolve this today.

I could always drop another upper.. like a PSA on it.. but thats another $300, and I can get exactly what I want for less.

[GWARGHOUL]

Mil-Spec and chrome lined barrel is the caker for me.

If it has a chrome lined bore and chamber, I'll take it. I change out the buffer tube and all that other jazz and make it better, but I can't chrome a barrel.

I KNOW the PSA stuff has chrome lined this and that, and is fully military spec. and affordable.

I think I will be going with this..

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/palmetto-state-armory/psa-16-m4-premium-carbine.html

[Jackal]

Remember, people put FAR too much emphasis on "mil spec". Are you using this rifle in military esque exploits or are you a civilian looking for a sporting rifle? If the answer is the latter, just buy the model that looks good to you and fits in your price range. Honestly, why not just build one? It can be done with simple tools, in an afternoon. I just built one yesterday, which I am in to for a total of $550. No, its not the best of the best parts, but I nor anyone I know puts enough stress on their rifles to require the best and I certainly dont need rails everywhere either.


Bottom line, AR's dont have to be mil spec to be a good rifle. I built mine for the price of a Kel Tec and the AR surely is a superior rifle.;)

[GWARGHOUL]

I just want something that will hold up and last, and have standardized parts. For the same price I would pay for the DPMS, I can get all mill spec, better barrel etc with PSA.

[Warp]

I was talked into putting one of these on layaway today at my LGS.

He told me, and it appeared to have a chrome lined barrel, but I cannot actually tell, as I don't carry a bore-light in my pocket (yet!)..

He field stripped it, and there appeared to be a slight chrome like look to the tip of the chamber, thats about the best I could see..

The guy told me it was not a heavy barrel, but not a pencil barrel either, ok.. fair enough I can vouch that is true.

Everything is supposed to be Mil-Spec...

Comes new in box, with three 30 round magazines..

I have a few questions..

This is my first AR. I like that its from a name brand...

1.Does DPMS build a good AR?

2. Is chrome lining really that important, and is this barrel in fact chrome lined?

3. I can always get another upper, like a PSA with a heavier barrel and a chrome lining and it will fit right on, correct?

4. The buffer tube... its commercial sized.. does that matter, and can/should I change it to military size?

Out the door, after all is said and done, I'm paying like $740. After transfer fees and such, thats really not much more than one of those discount online retailers.. and ya gotta support the LGS even if it means paying $60 more here and there.

So.. is this a good gun, reasonable deal, and I pose the questions above..

Thanks guys..

1. DPMS does not make very good ARs

2. Chrome lining should last longer

3. You should be able to, yes, but don't spend money on something that doens't meet your needs and wants in the first place

4. And there is one example already of how the gun is not milspec

All milspect? Bolt is marked HPT and MPI? Barrel makred? 5.56 chamber? 1:7 twist? Milspec buffer tube? F marked front site base? H buffer?




Cancelling is what I would recommend. I like your idea for PSA a lot better.

[GWARGHOUL]

Thanks guys. I will be cancelling tomorrow, and getting a refund (I only put $50 down), essentially because the salesman lied to me. Whether intentional or not, is besides the point.

[snakeman]

Dpms is good that's where freedom group is putting their focus. Remington and marlin have fallen in quality because of freedom group's focus on tacticool. In my opinion remington and marlin should never have been sold to freedom group. Freedom group is probably going to regret their decision with regards to remington and marlin, but not dpms and bushmaster.

[Warp]

Dpms is good that's where freedom group is putting their focus. Remington and marlin have fallen in quality because of freedom group's focus on tacticool. In my opinion remington and marlin should never have been sold to freedom group. Freedom group is probably going to regret their decision with regards to remington and marlin, but not dpms and bushmaster.

Sounds like nothing freedom group has is quality, based on this post, lol

[henschman]

IMO I wouldn't be rushing to throw away my DPMS if I currently own one; but neither would I be rushing out to buy a new one if I was looking for a new AR. They just don't currently make sense when you have the likes of PSA and S&W in the same price range.

That salesman was definitely blowing smoke up your ass, as are some people on this forum. No DPMS rifles are mil spec... they simply don't do HPT/MPI barrels and bolts. They don't offer chrome lining as an option at all unless you go with a NFA 14.5" barrel, and none of them have 1/7 twist available. They are not the material equivalent of a Colt, Spikes, PSA, Bushmaster, Windham, etc... there are differences in materials and QC compared to any of those.

To be clear, their lowers and LPK's are fine... but their uppers and associated components leave plenty to be desired compared to others in the same price range. As for the Freedom Group, not all of their products are bad... but the 5.56 DPMS' are not among their most competitive products. They used to have a niche when they were one of the few lower-priced alternatives to the likes of Colt and Bushmaster, for people wanting something just for sporting purposes, but like I said I just don't think they currently make sense in today's market, at their current price point.

If they lowered their prices a bit, they could be a kick ass option for an inexpensive range blasting rifle though.

[ugaarguy]

Dpms is good that's where freedom group is putting their focus. Remington and marlin have fallen in quality because of freedom group's focus on tacticool.
That's contradictory to the fact that Freedom Group used Remington Arms, not DPMS or Bushmaster, to win the recent bid to produce 24,000 M4A1 carbines for the US Army.

[USAF_Vet]

I just bought a DPMS DCM 16" upper, slick side, bull barrel for $399 to go on my ATI Omni lower. A complete functional AR for less than $500. For my purposes, it should perform perfectly (range plinker and HD).

Could I have spent more on a S&W, Colt or some other brand? Of course. Would I have gotten one for less than $500? Not a chance.

[ugaarguy]

Could I have spent more on a S&W, Colt or some other brand? Of course. Would I have gotten one for less than $500? Not a chance.
Actually you could have purchased a Del-Ton complete upper for the same $400. Del-Ton responded to market demand and started offering HPT/MPI bolts in carriers that have the keys attached with properly staked grade 8 fasteners. They also started parkerizing under their front sight bases, attaching the FSBs with taper pins, and using the correct F height front sight base with their flat top uppers.

Unlike DPMS, Del-Ton cuts their chambers consistently, and changes out their tooling at proper intervals. When I was working at a high volume FFL I saw too many DPMS rifles with rough and or undersized chambers that caused major extraction problems with only casual use.

If you're going to use your DPMS upper for HD please run several mags through it fast back to back to heat it up and ensure you won't have extraction problems when it really matters.

There is nothing wrong with DPMS products in the same way that there is nothing wrong with Colt, Spikes, PSA, Bushmaster, Windam, etc, etc. It's more of a preference issue and Fan Following that steers opinions.
Actually, DPMS skips or is very inconsistent in doing several assembly steps that are critical for a hard use AR. They also use lower quality parts and materials than many other makers. These are not opinions - They are quantifiable facts.

[offthepaper]

I have 2 DPMS AR's. I 've shot thousands of rounds through both. Never a single problem. I bought mine for range toys, for which they have served very well.
Now if it were life dependent.......I would spend the extra for a Colt.
But if your're only going to be punching holesw in paper, why spend a LOT more for the gun? Spend the extra on ammo and a decent piece of glass. You'll be happy.

[meanmrmustard]

I just want something that will hold up and last, and have standardized parts. For the same price I would pay for the DPMS, I can get all mill spec, better barrel etc with PSA.
This is a wise decision. No need to buy something for the same price or more than another rifle that is better built.

[GWARGHOUL]

I just hope they don't give me a hard time about refunding the layaway deposit. The receipt says not refundable store credit only. But the fact is I was lied to and the item was misrepresented. If they want my transfer business and future sales they better just do the right thing. How do you guys think I should approach this tomorrow? I get hot a little on the quick side.

[ugaarguy]

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Stay calm, and ask what they'll do or you. If they won't refund it use the store credit to cover the transfer fee, and buy spare mags, ammo, or the like with what's left over. You're getting an AR: You're going to want mags and ammo.

[Warp]

I just hope they don't give me a hard time about refunding the layaway deposit. The receipt says not refundable store credit only. But the fact is I was lied to and the item was misrepresented. If they want my transfer business and future sales they better just do the right thing. How do you guys think I should approach this tomorrow? I get hot a little on the quick side.

If you have to put the $50 towards store credit to keep the peace, that might be best.

I may or may not go the route of "that rifle isn't milspec". PROBABLY if you just say you changed your mind and don't want that manufacturer, they will either say "okay" or they will ask why, and if they ask why just say you want something that is milspec. If they say okay, then okay. If they say it is, you can ask informed questions about what makes it milspec and see what they say. :)

[GWARGHOUL]

Those are good inputs, but I'm thinking I might need the 50 bones for gas to get to school for a week or so before I get paid. Guess I'll play it by ear and if I gotta pawn a shotgun for a week or two, so be it.

[Warp]

Those are good inputs, but I'm thinking I might need the 50 bones for gas to get to school for a week or so before I get paid. Guess I'll play it by ear and if I gotta pawn a shotgun for a week or two, so be it.

This seems to be more along the lines of poor planning or budgeting on your part. If the rifle you put the down payment on was spectacular and we all told you it was awesome and a great deal, would you be asking for a refund on your non refundable deposit?

[GWARGHOUL]

Warp, you have a point. Actually the wife went a little harder on the cash than I intended too. The only reason I put down the 50 bucks was because I thought I was getting a "deal" on a good rifle and was told it met all of my requirements. If I acted then, I also got three free magazines. It's half poor planing an half jumping on misrepresented merch.

[Warp]

Gun store employees, unfortunately, often just don't know very much at all...and people assume they do.

Or they are just 'salesman' about it, which is 'the right gun for you is the one they have'

[GWARGHOUL]

Yep, kinda recalling my days working in my step dad's vacuum store now. I actually knew most of my stuff, but I catch your drift.

[GWARGHOUL]

They were cool about it. Got the refund. Got PSA in touch with them to get the FFL over so that's all ready when I order in about two weeks.

He did show me a all mil spec DPMS, an it was chrome lined. But it was a bit more, and did not have a removable carry handle.

[GWARGHOUL]

One question... Can you change handgaurds on these platforms easily?

[Warp]

One question... Can you change handgaurds on these platforms easily?

Yes, you can change AR15 handguards relatively easily. Some swaps are easier than others. Heck, some are about as simple as it gets.

[Rob96]

That's contradictory to the fact that Freedom Group used Remington Arms, not DPMS or Bushmaster, to win the recent bid to produce 24,000 M4A1 carbines for the US Army.

And Freedom Group used DPMS for submission into the M110 SASS trials. Yes they didn't win but they did well from what I have read.

ALso nto sure if you read, but the M4 contract is going back out to bid.