How Many Guns can I Fly With?


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GraceOutcast
October 14, 2012, 11:34 PM
I am flying on Delta and I'm following all of the proper protocols for locked cases and such but I can't seem to find if Delta has a restriction on the number of handguns I can have in one case. There is nothing on their website. I'm wanting to fly with 6. Thoughts?

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snakeman
October 14, 2012, 11:41 PM
In regards to the headline it depends on how fast you flap your wings. =]

shiftyer1
October 14, 2012, 11:48 PM
He beat me to it. lol

I've yet to fly with guns, i've lost luggage a couple times and would be scared to lose them.

Saakee
October 14, 2012, 11:53 PM
http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/ this guy goes everywhere with guns in his luggage for one reason: to protect his more expensive electronics and lockpicking gear. He also goes over how some airlines have arbitrary rules. Try sending him an email, he should be pretty approachable about it.

GraceOutcast
October 15, 2012, 12:10 AM
this guy goes everywhere with guns in his luggage
He does list that Delta does have a 5 handgun max yet there are no quoted rules concerning that. Unless I hear otherwise I'll max out at 5 and go from there.

tarosean
October 15, 2012, 12:25 AM
Call which ever airline (s) your traveling with. They will have the definitive answer.

Rail Driver
October 15, 2012, 12:44 AM
I flew to Nevada last summer with 11 firearms in one case (double sided rifle case) via Delta - Honestly though, I have to recommend against it - When I got to my destination, my gun case (one of two checked bags) was missing, and it took two days for the airline to find it. When they finally did find it I received it with the handle broken off, two of the latches missing and one hinge broken. The case had tool marks that showed that somebody had attempted to get into the case. Fortunately everything inside the case was intact and unmolested.

On discussing the issue with Delta, I was given a $25 voucher for my next flight which I ripped to shreds and handed back to the executive politely. I canceled my return ticket with Delta and flew home via American Airlines and had no problems.

sub-moa
October 15, 2012, 07:00 AM
Call which ever airline (s) your traveling with. They will have the definitive answer.

WADR, in my experience (140+ flights/yr) definitive answers are rarely...if ever, the case over the phone.....

Well Now
October 15, 2012, 07:38 AM
I have taken two rifles and two handguns in one case without any problems on Delta. Spirit Air limits you to one rifle or pistol.

From Delta site:

Pistols

You can bring pistols and accessories as checked baggage as long as they are included in one pistol case and contain:
Pistol telescopes
Noise suppressers
A small pistol tool case
No more than 11 lbs. (5 kg) of ammunition
Please read important information regarding packaging and presenting/declaring firearms at check-in.

Rifles and Shotguns

Delta will accept firearms and shooting equipment packaged as follows:
One gun case containing rifles or shotguns, plus shooting materials, and tools
One gun case containing handguns, one scope, and tools
One bow and quiver of arrows and maintenance kit enclosed in a case or container of sufficient strength to protect the bow and quiver from accidental damage
An excess baggage fee will apply if checking more than one gun case. Ammunition is limited to 11 lbs. (5 kg).
Please read important information regarding packaging and presenting/declaring firearms at check-in.

beatledog7
October 15, 2012, 08:37 AM
There are a number of potential hiccups, so it's wise to uncover the policies of:

- TSA
- Your airline(s)
- Your originating airport
- Your destination airport (you'll be originating there for your return trip, right?)

Airport and airline personnel will often give conflicting or vague answers to these questions, so you are wise to plan ahead. Record the name and contact information for the persons who provided the answers, and note the time and date of the conversations. Get those answers in writing (printouts of policy pages from their website are quite useful) so you can present paper when someone on scene tries to reverse the decision or reinterpret the policy.

06
October 15, 2012, 08:40 AM
Great info, thanks. Am flying to Alaska spring of 13, boat to Wash., rental car to Sou. Cal. Hear the boat regs are the most stringent. Any experience with them?

ArchAngelCD
October 15, 2012, 09:36 AM
I would never fly with guns because I don't trust the employees of the airlines, don't want the hassles of the way you are treated when trying to check the guns in and a half dozen other reasons.

Please listen

You are much better off sending your guns next day delivery to your destination addressed to yourself. It is 100% legal for you to take delivery of your guns at the destination but no one else can legally receive them. It's so much safer and there's no hassle involves!!!

Good luck...

MedWheeler
October 15, 2012, 09:50 AM
Just make sure your flight does not have any scheduled (or unscheduled!) stops in guns-prohibited areas, such as New York (City), New Jersey, or Illinois. Although extremely rare, there have been cases of people being arrested when they came into manual possession of their firearms due to an unexpected layover. Have a good trip.

metalart
October 15, 2012, 10:20 AM
Unless it is a private boat, You may have more problems with the sea leg of your trip than with the plane.

Ian
October 15, 2012, 10:29 AM
I flew recently on American Airlines with two rifles and a pistol in a single case. Neither the airline nor TSA even wanted to look inside the case - they just had me a sign a "not loaded" waiver and slide it inside.

Drail
October 15, 2012, 10:59 AM
How many you can check and declare is totally up to the individual carrier and their insurance company. Ask the airline. Ask several different people at the airline because half of them won't have a clue but will tell you some number just so you go away. This information SHOULD be on their website. And as stated make sure you know the laws in every city you may land in. Many people have learned this the hard way. If weather forces you to land in say, New York you will have a problem if you retrieve your baggage. I would leave any bags with guns in them in possession of the airline until you get to your destination, even if they may lose it or send it to Terra Del Fuego. I used to fly years ago with guns and never had a problem (except for stupid people who worked for the airlines). I will never fly commercial again though just because of the way the TSA treats people.

Ehtereon11B
October 16, 2012, 01:07 AM
My wife flew with 4 guns using Delta and they didn't even bat an eyelash. Just make sure its a hard sided case that locks on both ends. I don't think they have a limit per se. Most guidelines I have used for airlines are the pistols have to be locked in a hard case in checked baggage. But that would be something to call the airline ahead of time to make sure they don't have a limit. And you will have to show up at the airport earlier to go through and declare firearms. Depending on the airport that could mean 1-3 hours before your flight time.

dsb1829
October 16, 2012, 08:15 AM
I flew Delta with 5 pistols in one case and 2 rifles in another. I was charged accordingly, but not scrutinized. I was afraid to go over their arbitrary quantities.

bergmen
October 16, 2012, 01:48 PM
This is a good post, I'm mulling this over right now. I have a scheduled flight out of Sonoma County to LAX on Alaska Airlines and I would like to bring my .45 auto carry gun with me. I'll be renting a car and driving from LAX to Laguna Beach, would rather not do so unarmed (I have a LTC).

I've never flown with firearms before so I'm a bit nervous. Not necessarily due to the processes and procedures, just that my suitcase may end up "disappearing". I can replace the gun (although I do not like the idea of it ending up in the wrong hands) but the suitcase will also be filled with irreplaceable family photo albums that go back 50 years and more (I'm travelling to a reunion). These are irreplaceable. I don't really want to travel with two suitcases just for this.

Quandary.

Dan

tarosean
October 16, 2012, 02:17 PM
^ I would pack the photos in a carry on.. I fly over 100,000 miles a year and have never had my baggage or articles lost or stolen. Delayed a day or two, or end up in the wrong country a few times is about it.. However, they have been damaged in all sorts of ways imaginable.

Little airports are a breeze with guns, it's the big ones that can be a pain...

bergmen
October 16, 2012, 02:41 PM
Trouble is the photo albums are taking up 2/3 of a large hard sided suitcase. I'm only staying for one night at my friend's house so my clothing can be taken with me in a carry-on bag (beach house so shorts and T-shirts).

Maybe I could ship the albums UPS, I have time to do this. I don't know, still scratching my head over this.

I've never lost any luggage really except for one bag that arrived on the next flight from SFO to LaGuardia. But with guns, who will know and who can be trusted? Especially with LAX, that place isn't the paragon of all things lawful or trustworthy.

Dan

tarosean
October 16, 2012, 02:52 PM
But with guns, who will know and who can be trusted? Especially with LAX, that place isn't the paragon of all things lawful or trustworthy.


Don't use TSA locks and Lock the gun case to the rails of the suitcase. They will either have to steal the entire thing, or spend a lot of time attempting.

bergmen
October 16, 2012, 03:11 PM
Don't use TSA locks and Lock the gun case to the rails of the suitcase. They will either have to steal the entire thing, or spend a lot of time attempting.

Yep, that is what I plan to do. I have a huge pile of gun locks that came with my gun purchases over the years (California) and I have a good solid lock-down method that is just what you describe.

I'll see how it goes, I fly out on the 27th.

Dan

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 16, 2012, 08:31 PM
I have a huge pile of gun locks that came with my gun purchases over the years.
I'm not sure there is much difference between using those and the TSA locks, really.

bergmen
October 16, 2012, 09:23 PM
I'm not sure there is much difference between using those and the TSA locks, really.

I may end up with hardware store Master locks. I do want to lock the internal hard case to a part of the internal structure. I am a Mechanical Engineer by profession and my Dad was a clever inventor of locks so I think I have some pretty good ideas as to how to proceed.

Right now I'm shopping for a good, durable, hard side travel luggage suitcase. All of the name brands (Samsonite, etc.) have reasonable cases but they all zip closed and only a few have the so-called "TSA Combo Lock" that looks like it would take my 30 seconds with a Leatherman to pop.

I'm checking out Pelican cases with hard latches and stainless steel lock plates that accommodate padlocks.

Dan

Drail
October 17, 2012, 07:23 PM
The "locks" are just for looks actually. (just like the TSA) You would be amazed how many junior high school kids can "pick" almost any padlock. Just like the locks on your house. And your car. I believe that the law states that you must use a padlock that ONLY you have the key to and you must keep that key in your possession all of the time. No TSA locks. I'm sure almost no one pays any attention to that.

Mike OTDP
October 18, 2012, 02:28 PM
Actually, those of us who travel routinely DO pay attention. TSA "locks" should not be used on a firearm case.

My own international travel case was made by ICC. Heavy aluminium. And each side is secured with two padlocks.

bassdogs
October 18, 2012, 08:59 PM
Flew to Alaska recently and packed 2 handguns and ammo in one locked plastic case. Had 3 heavy locks on the case so someone would have had to rip it to pieces to get the stuff out. I was not ask to open the case going up or coming home. I did use a TSA lock on the suitcase that contained the gun case. I understand that they can open a TSA lock, but at least it kept some of the riffraff from picking thru the luggage and it prevented the case from opening accidently.

Only you have the key to the locks on the gun case itself. When checking in [you can't use curb side] you have to declare you have a firearm in your bag. Kind of gives you a lump in your throat to announce you have a gun in an airport, but no one even raised an eye. Just gave me the declaration form to sign. Its really a non event. When the TSA hand scanned the suitcase on my return trip, he totally ignored the gun case that I had already declared. He confiscated a bic lighter I had used for campfires but totally missed the can of highly flammable WD40 next to it.

Have fun in Alaska.

Buck13
October 19, 2012, 01:06 PM
I canceled my return ticket with Delta and flew home via American Airlines and had no problems.

I'm not sure changing airlines will have any effect. At SeaTac, I'm pretty sure all bags are handled by Menzies. I was looking out the window while waiting for a flight, and watched the Menzies guy heaving bags into the air, dressing up the alignment as they floated in front of him and slamming them down onto the conveyor belt heading into the plane. I complained about this to an Alaska Air gate agent, who told me it's not her problem because that's a separate company. Yeah, duh, and you're their customer. ("You" being Alaska.) You could ask them not to abuse the bags in full view of the concourse! But Menzies is pretty much a monopoly, so expect them not to care!

Rail Driver
October 19, 2012, 01:18 PM
I'm not sure changing airlines will have any effect. At SeaTac, I'm pretty sure all bags are handled by Menzies. I was looking out the window while waiting for a flight, and watched the Menzies guy heaving bags into the air, dressing up the alignment as they floated in front of him and slamming them down onto the conveyor belt heading into the plane. I complained about this to an Alaska Air gate agent, who told me it's not her problem because that's a separate company. Yeah, duh, and you're their customer. ("You" being Alaska.) You could ask them not to abuse the bags in full view of the concourse! But Menzies is pretty much a monopoly, so expect them not to care!
That may be the case at a larger airport, or one that has more traffic. The baggage handlers at most of the airports I've flown out of recently were wearing jumpsuits with airline specific logos (ie, Delta, American Air, United, etc). I also live fairly close to a smaller airport that doesn't see nearly as much traffic, and you're right - all those guys are from the same contract company. I think it's a case by case kind of thing. Regardless, canceling my ticket and flying a different airline made me feel a bit better considering Delta was unwilling to even apologize for the inconvenience, much less the damage done to my property. The case hadn't just been tossed around - it was obviously damaged in an attempt to get at the contents. Customer service, especially in the larger industries, air travel being one of them, SHOULD be a top priority. Unfortunately anyone that flies anymore is treated like a terrorist by TSA, and like an inconvenience by airline employees other than flight attendants (and even a good number of flight attendants tend to treat passengers as an inconvenience at times). Some airlines are better with this than others. Bottom line? American Airlines treated me like a valued customer. Delta didn't.

NavyLCDR
October 19, 2012, 06:33 PM
I'm not sure there is much difference between using those and the TSA locks, really.
The fact that TSA locks on the gun case violates Federal Regulations seems like a pretty big difference to me.

Drail
October 19, 2012, 09:02 PM
I can assure you that if the TSA wants to open a bag for any reason they couldn't care less what kind of lock is on it. They will cut it off. Technically, yes, you're not supposed to lock the gun case with a TSA lock but I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it. Personally I never uderstood the logic of placing a padlock on a small pistol case that can be stuck under a jacket and walked out with. Or even a suitcase. It's just for looks and to make some folks "feel" better. It does nothing to prevent theft or loss. But you got to play by the rules no matter how nonsensible they are. The hard part is that there are so many different rules and the people in charge rarely seem to know what the rules are (or they just make them up as they go like the TSA is famous for doing). I am told they actually have a rulebook but no one has ever seen it. It's Top Secret National Defense material, you know?

xnmw
October 19, 2012, 09:27 PM
hard-sided suitcases stink... they are brittle and quick to break a corner or wheel or to come unlatched. A decent zipper bag is your best bet, or a c-bag even. The Pelican cases are a good investment--they get treated with a little more respect. I was a baggage handler for years..yes, your bag is going to land hard on the conveyor, etc. ...when I started out I clutched each bag and gently stacked it.. you can't survive that way, you have to basically sling the bags to keep up and not kill yourself--not abuse, but your stuff should be packed to take a 12 ft drop. The bag might not survive, but the contents should. Also, pack the entire contents in a thick drum liner or other trash bag...lazy baggage handlers will run inside and leave your bag in the rain.

If I recall correctly, the limit is on ammunition by weight.

NavyLCDR
October 20, 2012, 02:26 PM
I can assure you that if the TSA wants to open a bag for any reason they couldn't care less what kind of lock is on it. They will cut it off. Technically, yes, you're not supposed to lock the gun case with a TSA lock but I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it.

That "technicality" could me the difference between who would be responsible for a lost or stolen firearm. Someone cuts the lock and the gun disappears - the responsibility falls upon the person who cut the lock, if the traveler fulfilled all of their responsibilities according to Federal regulations.

If the traveler uses a TSA lock on the firearm case, the ultimate responsibility for the lost or stolen firearm will fall upon the traveler because they did not fulfill their responsibility required in Federal regulations to prevent others from having the key/combo to the lock.

Drail
October 20, 2012, 11:07 PM
Padlocks are a joke to thieves. And I don't quite get how it would be the traveler's responsibility that someone stole their case. (regardless of the type of lock) The thief will just grab the case and go and remove the lock later.

Shadow 7D
October 21, 2012, 04:55 AM
Drail,I take it you have NEVER had to deal with insurance,
you pack it illegally, you are likely to just get a shrug and a 'that's too bad'

Drail
October 21, 2012, 09:40 AM
Oh, we're talking insurance here eh? Of course the padlock and case will be found near the scene of the crime so the type of padlock is important. Never mind.

Sebastian the Ibis
October 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
I sat next to an AP photographer on a flight once. He always flew with a starter pistol in his camera case so that his cameras would get the special attention. No airlines have lost my firearms (yet), but FedEx has. It was amazing how fast they stopped giving me the run around once I told them the mis-delivered package contained a firearm and I would have to submit a lost firearms report to the BATFE if they didn't find it in 24 hours.

Although it is not gun, related, this music video about lost luggage is great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo&feature=relmfu

NavyLCDR
October 21, 2012, 12:56 PM
I sat next to an AP photographer on a flight once. He always flew with a starter pistol in his camera case so that his cameras would get the special attention.

Victim of an urban myth. Once the luggage containing the firearm leaves TSA screening it is treated just like every other piece of luggage by the airlines. In fact, it violates Federal law for the carrier to mark the luggage in any way to indicate that it contains a firearm. The only special handling is that it is not legal for TSA to cut a lock to inspect a firearms case. They are supposed to either request the owner of the case to open it, or turn it over to a real law enforcement agency if they can't find the owner. A properly signed declaration tag is all the TSA needs to see.

If the gun case is going by itself, the declaration tag goes in side the case and TSA can see it on XRAY. If they want to verify that it is signed, they call for the owner to open the case for them.

bassdogs
October 21, 2012, 01:49 PM
So what is your point? Federal law requires that you lock the case and that you are the only one with the key or combination. TSA locks are for luggage not gun cases. For sure an agent can cut off any lock, but they would have to have a reason [or make one up]. I used a TSA lock on my luggage mainly to keep it from popping open during transit. The multi padlocks on the gun case itself will prevent someone from opening the gun case without considerable effort, some privacy, and the belief that what is inside is worth all the effort. I would never fly with a very valuable weapon or one that means so much to me that I would not want to lose it.

Think this member had a legitimate question that deserved a helpful answer. He got some but had to pick thru others that we're so much.

bassdogs
October 21, 2012, 02:01 PM
NavyLcd has it pretty much right. When you sign the declaration form, it is placed inside the check luggage on top of the gun case. There is no tag placed on the outside of the checked bag announcing that it contains a firearm. I was ask to wait at the ticket counter for a about 10 minutes in case the TSA wanted to search the case. They didn't and I went on my way thru security and on to the gate. Tsa did inspect my luggage on my return leg, but only ask me to open the luggage case not the gun case. My form was laying right on the gun case where they could see it when they opened my suitcase. Never even paid any attention to the gun case other than to verify that the locks were properly engaged. My only other recommendation is to open your suitcase as soon as you pick it off the baggage loop and verify the gun case is inside and locked. A quick grab will confirm that the weight is correct and all the locks are there. I would not recommend opening the gun case while you are in the airport. Don't know that airport security would say much, but another passenger seeing the firearm would probably freak out and cause a scene. Assuming you want to get on with your trip, I would do your inspection over in a corner or away from the crowd.

Flying with a firearm is remarkably simple. Just learn the rules and follow them. Security will be more concerned by a can of coke or bottle of shampoo than the gun in your suitcase.

Mr.510
October 28, 2012, 05:54 AM
When I flew to Colorado to drive a vintage car back to Seattle I wanted to take my .45 along and was worried about theft in transit. I went to a thrift store and bought a huge plastic Samsonite suitcase, just under the 'standard bag' size limit for $6. When I got it home I put my pistol hard case in the bottom of the suitcase in a location that made it easy to lock and open. Then I drilled four holes through the suitcase and pistol case and bolted them together with four 1/4" carriage bolts with fender washers and nylock nuts inside the pistol case. A pair of matching padlocks for the pistol case and I was set.

I loaded up that suitcase with my tool bag and tools until it was two pounds under the limit in case my bathroom scale was off. Now it was a ~$5k, 48 pound suitcase! When I went to check my bag at SeaTac they had me take it over to a guy in a deal like an office cubicle. He asked if the gun was unloaded and then went through my tool bag and other stuff. He didn't want to open the pistol case or even know what else was in it besides the weapon. He said he'd heard about handgun thefts from baggage being rampant around Chicago but had never heard much about it in the NW. He thought my case bolted into the hardside suitcase was a great idea nonetheless. :)

NavyLCDR
October 28, 2012, 03:41 PM
Here is my feeling about gun theft and airline travel. If I was a thief, I know how I would do business. I would look for the luggage that appeared on the outside to have something valuable inside. Then I would pick up that piece of luggage and walk out of the airport with it like I was a traveler and it was my luggage.

Then, in confines of somewhere private, I would open the luggage and hope for something good inside, where I would also have all the time in the world to break into a gun case inside.

So, my point is - when I have a piece of luggage with a gun case inside, my goal is to make that piece of luggage look like every other piece of luggage out there with nothing valuable inside at all. It's an ordinary suitcase that looks like any other suitcase, with no extra bolts installed in it, no extra weight added to it, and a simple little TSA lock more to keep it from coming open in handling than anything else.

ArchAngelCD
October 28, 2012, 04:09 PM
I still say you should FedEX your guns to your destination. It's much easier and safer.

NavyLCDR
October 28, 2012, 05:45 PM
I still say you should FedEX your guns to your destination. It's much easier and safer.

Can you explain, please, how it would be much easier?

FEDEX: The shipper must declare, IN WRITING, to FEDEX the shipment contains a firearm. The shipper must make a trip to FEDEX to deliver the package for shipment. The shipper must fill out the standard paperwork for any FEDEX overnight shipping. At the receiving end, a person must be present at the specific time of delivery, which is determined by FEDEX, to sign for receipt of the package. Ammo must be sent separately by ground.

AIRLINE: Go to the counter, tell the person you have an unloaded gun to declare. Sign the tag, put it in your luggage next to the gun case. Ammo can be in the case with the gun (most airlines) or in the luggage with the gun case. You might wait 10 minutes for TSA to x-ray your bag. Pick up your luggage on the carousel at the destination and you have your gun AND your ammo with no extra trips on either end and no waiting looking out the window for the stealth FEDEX truck.

So, why is FEDEX easier? And can you care to elaborate what safeguards FEDEX has in place above and beyond those safeguards of an airline for handling luggage?

You are certainly free to state that FEDEX is easier and safer, but I, personally, would like to know why?

Which one is easier? FEDEX or AIRLINE?

RinkRat
October 29, 2012, 01:14 AM
This is one of the many reasons I have started driving to where ever I'm going. I personally do not care how far or how long it takes to drive too and fro. My family has protested in the past but have come to agree that though it may take a little longer. There are far less hassles and we all have generated far more happy memories driving together. And we have been able to see the sights along the way.

ArchAngelCD
October 29, 2012, 01:28 AM
Can you explain, please, how it would be much easier?

FEDEX: The shipper must declare, IN WRITING, to FEDEX the shipment contains a firearm. The shipper must make a trip to FEDEX to deliver the package for shipment. The shipper must fill out the standard paperwork for any FEDEX overnight shipping. At the receiving end, a person must be present at the specific time of delivery, which is determined by FEDEX, to sign for receipt of the package. Ammo must be sent separately by ground.

AIRLINE: Go to the counter, tell the person you have an unloaded gun to declare. Sign the tag, put it in your luggage next to the gun case. Ammo can be in the case with the gun (most airlines) or in the luggage with the gun case. You might wait 10 minutes for TSA to x-ray your bag. Pick up your luggage on the carousel at the destination and you have your gun AND your ammo with no extra trips on either end and no waiting looking out the window for the stealth FEDEX truck.

So, why is FEDEX easier? And can you care to elaborate what safeguards FEDEX has in place above and beyond those safeguards of an airline for handling luggage?

You are certainly free to state that FEDEX is easier and safer, but I, personally, would like to know why?

Which one is easier? FEDEX or AIRLINE?
Why do you sound so hostile? You do things the way you want and I'll do them the way I want. Also, the OP was asking about many guns and how many were allowed, not 1 gun like you talk about. One gun may be easy but 5 or more are not. Lighten up Sir, there is no wrong here except for the government!

Shadow 7D
October 29, 2012, 01:51 PM
wow, archangel
you must have missed the various 'fed ex sucks'/'UPS sucks' threads
just as many or more guns go missing from those people as MAY disappear from the airport, and the hassle...

NavyLCDR
October 29, 2012, 03:24 PM
Why do you sound so hostile? You do things the way you want and I'll do them the way I want. Also, the OP was asking about many guns and how many were allowed, not 1 gun like you talk about. One gun may be easy but 5 or more are not. Lighten up Sir, there is no wrong here except for the government!

I politely asked for facts that would indicate that FEDEX is actually easier or safer. I notice you offered no facts, simply an accusation that my polite request for facts was hostile. You say 1 gun may be easy but 5 or more are not. Again, I would politely ask for facts to back that up. Most airlines would allow 5 handguns to go in a single locked case. I just don't see any extra effort in declaring one unloaded gun in a locked case to the counter person as declaring 5 unloaded guns to the counter person. You state your opinion as if it was a fact applicable to everyone.

bassdogs
October 29, 2012, 03:46 PM
Think its time to close this one. ? ask, ? answered!

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