Safeties


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TarDevil
October 16, 2012, 12:31 PM
I'm giving a lot of thought to them. I like safeties, I've stated that numerous times... but the arguments against them are logical, I concede.

Several times recently I've I've unholstered my Ruger to find the safety had been bumped off. Since I DO practice the four rules (and a few more of my own), it wasn't a big deal except, as so often stated in this cyber place of wisdom, wonder if I would have recognized it in a "situation?"

For now, I'm sticking with safeties and will add the additional drill of frequently checking its status.

But I'm wondering...
Edited to add apologies for putting this in the wrong place. Would some Admin kindly move it for me?

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Drail
October 16, 2012, 04:56 PM
If you keep finding your safety "off" then you need to immediately figure out why. Either your holster is rubbing on it or something you are rubbing up against (car seat) is wiping it off. A good holster should cover the safety so it cannot snag on things. I would look at the holster first. Most guns retain the safety" position with a spring loaded plunger. Make sure it is not worn or possibly broken. It should take some effort to move the safety on and off. If it moves very easily something is wrong.

murf
October 17, 2012, 03:34 AM
for me, the only "safety" is the one between my ears. those levers, buttons and bars on the gun are just things to assist me in being safe.

i had a similar incident with my browning high power. the holster i was using disconnected the safety when the gun was holstered. gave me the willies after i drew the gun and tried to take the safety off. don't know how long i carried it around that way, but it was the last time.

don't carry that one "cock and lock" anymore....ever. always hammer down and a round in the chamber.

that is one reason why i only have one "safety".

murf

bigfatdave
October 17, 2012, 05:23 AM
You can add to a good holster to keep a safety lever in the "more safe" position. I did that with my 1911 holster, by sewing on a wedge of scrap leather.

I like a manual safety on a light-trigger single-action gun, but otherwise passive safety devices are preferred.

1911Tuner
October 17, 2012, 05:53 AM
TarDevil...I'm going to go ahead and assume that we're talking about a 1911 copy/clone/variant.

Finding the safety in the go-bang position is a little unnerving, I know...but it doesn't present the hazard that many believe. Firing he gun requires pulling the trigger, and the grip safety blocks the trigger until it's depressed.

If the hammer escapes the sear without the trigger being pulled, the half-cock notch will grab the sear and arrest the hammer. The 1910 prototypes that Browning submitted to the Army Ordnance Board didn't even have manual safeties. The thumb safety was added in the 11th hour on request of the US Cavalry, and the reason was for temporary reholstering in a hurry...not for continuous carry.

The safety doesn't block the hammer. If the sear suddenly disintegrates, the hammer will fall, and it'll wipe the safety off on its way down faster than you can with your thumb...but that's about as unlikely as being attacked by a shark in an above-ground pool.

The holster design is at the root of your problem. Shop around. There are several that don't disengage he safety.

The M
October 17, 2012, 06:01 AM
Agree on the holster being the problem. I've never had the safety click off on its own for me ever. I'm using a leather DeSantis for my 1911 and just love it.

checkmyswag
October 17, 2012, 12:11 PM
Good post.

Makes me think about the design of safeties.

I think traditionally, safeties were designed for carry in a traditional OWB holster.

With the popularity of concealed carry and IWB carry in particular, it seems that the style of safeties is/has/should change.

Compare the safety on a full size M&P to a Shield.

Which model of Ruger are you carrying? What kind of holster? What position?

ku4hx
October 17, 2012, 12:33 PM
I'm giving a lot of thought to them. I like safeties, ....
I like an effective safety too. I've found the one between my ears to be the most effective.

checkmyswag
October 17, 2012, 01:01 PM
I've found the one between my ears to be the most effective.

This has become the pretty stock response you'll hear when safeties are discussed. I agree with it in part. I mean, it IS your most important safety. The only one you have total control over.

However, I think it's far more complicated or dynamic than that.

To me, concealed carry gun safety is a spectrum. Barney Fife carry on one end, Glock in a holster plus gun safety rules on the other end.

Most of us wouldn't be comfortable on the bullet in the pocket method. Some of us aren't comfortable without a thumb and/or backstrap safety.

Whatever decision a person makes on this matter it needs to be what is comfortable to them, not an irrational fear of a gun "going off" nor being pressured into "manning up" and carrying without a safety.

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

2wheels
October 17, 2012, 01:42 PM
Holster design is the most likely culprit here. I carry primarily 1911 or 1911 style (My Sig P238) handguns in a variety of holster styles (OWB, IWB, pocket, ankle) and I've never had my safety switched off accidentally.

Not that it's a huge deal if it is, as Tuner noted, you've still got the grip safety and the holster preventing the trigger from being pulled.

Buy a better holster and carry on.

Kingcreek
October 17, 2012, 01:48 PM
I went away from ambi safeties on the 1911 for that reason. I found that even with good holsters the outside safety could get swiped to off. I like a polished but positive detent on a single safety.
With my glocks and kahrs I trust a good holster and a long deliberate trigger pull.
The operational safety rules always apply of course.

guyfromohio
October 17, 2012, 02:24 PM
Some are good, some bad. I don't feel a need for one on a snubbie, don't carry the Glock mainly because it doesn't have one, don't carry the PPK because it is awkward to disengage, don't have any issues putting a M9/92FS into motion...... but I carry a sig with decocker/no safety. I guess I don't have a good answer.

Skribs
October 17, 2012, 04:04 PM
That's why I prefer weapons without a manual safety. I know what state the safety is in at all times.

horsemen61
October 17, 2012, 04:21 PM
I am not a huge fan of safeties because people think that"oh its got a safety I don't need to pay a huge amount of attention now "and something bad ends up happening.

Drail
October 17, 2012, 09:00 PM
Yup, just like when magazine disconnect safeties were introduced. Very quickly most people started to believe that with the mag removed from ANY semi auto pistol it was "safe" and couldn't fire. That worked out really well. So now we have manufacturer's having to stamp "WILL FIRE WITHOUT MAGAZINE" in huge letters on the gun only because so many people STILL believe that it won't fire with the mag out. Gaston would be proud. All safeties should be installed in the front of your brain. No matter how many safety devices are installed on a firearm some idiot will figure out a way to shoot themselves or some one else. Safeties are a good idea but you NEVER want to rely on one.

chris in va
October 17, 2012, 09:07 PM
Curious. As the 1911 has a grip safety, couldn't it theoretically be carried C&L with the thumb off?

BurntPizza
October 17, 2012, 09:49 PM
I like having a safety as well. It just makes me feel a little better about carrying.

2wheels
October 17, 2012, 11:20 PM
Curious. As the 1911 has a grip safety, couldn't it theoretically be carried C&L with the thumb off?
Well then it wouldn't be C&L, just C :)

But yes, it can definitely be carried that way. Just aren't many people around who choose to.

Grunt
October 17, 2012, 11:43 PM
for me, the only "safety" is the one between my ears. those levers, buttons and bars on the gun are just things to assist me in being safe.

i had a similar incident with my browning high power. the holster i was using disconnected the safety when the gun was holstered. gave me the willies after i drew the gun and tried to take the safety off. don't know how long i carried it around that way, but it was the last time.

don't carry that one "cock and lock" anymore....ever. always hammer down and a round in the chamber.

that is one reason why i only have one "safety".

murf

If the one safety you use is between your ears, why did it give you the willies when you drew out you Hi-Power to find the safety had been disengaged?:scrutiny: If you keep your finger off the trigger, why should it matter if you are using a cocked and unlocked Hi-Power, Glock, or target pistol with a sub-two pound trigger?

Slugnutty
October 18, 2012, 12:13 AM
Hi all.
Been soooo long that I forgot my password - .... had to create a new account...

Anyway - I too have had that issue TarDevil with my Ruger SR9C it appears to me that I cut corners too close to door frames and occasionally swipe the outside safety.

Also - this appears to happen ONLY when I use my N8'2d tactical IWB holster.

http://n82tactical.com/n82store/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/O-GLOCK-33.jpg

But NOT with my Bianchi OWB pancake with internal lock.

http://www.galls.com/CGBCSTYL?PMSTYL=LP329

Maybe because I am more aware of the OWB configuration than the IWB?
I don't know.... but I too have had that hmmmm moment also.

(If I had to guess 3 or 4 times in the last year.)

murf
October 18, 2012, 01:21 AM
grunt,

i'm glad you understand the "the only safety is between your ears" concept. most people have a hard time grasping this idea.

murf

TarDevil
October 18, 2012, 01:34 AM
Ruger SR9c. I own and use several different holsters and none of them cover the safety...I haven't found one online that does. As Slugnutty said, I think bumping into doorways and counter corners are the culprit. The safety itself has a firm and positive action, so I don't find fault with the mechanism.

bigfatdave
October 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
Curious. As the 1911 has a grip safety, couldn't it theoretically be carried C&L with the thumb off? you could ... but I prefer the extra layer of redundancy with mine, they all have really nice triggers with little travel between "at rest" and "bang"

ATLDave
October 18, 2012, 10:37 AM
I don't plan to need my seat belt when I get in the car each morning, but I still put it on.

If I get to my destination and discover that I've accidentally unbuckled myself during the drive, I don't start to question the use of seat belts. I question what I did to unbuckle myself.

bluecollar
October 18, 2012, 10:55 AM
Next to maybe an H&K P7, a C&L 1911 is most likely the safest handgun carry you could have. I could see an argument being made that it is possibly "too safe". The local SWAT team recently changed from Glock to 1911 carry. They were mandated to attend a transition school where they constantly engaged and disengaged the thumb safety so it became instinctive. All in all they are largely pleased with the switch.

scythefwd
October 18, 2012, 11:03 AM
If you drill it into your draw to remove the safety.. and its already off, your draw will just be flicking off something that is already off.. aka.. shouldn't change anything. It will feel different, but if you practice enough, or are stressed.. this wont even register as a though, but you'll know.

It also depends on the safety configuration as to whether a holster covers it or not. The beretta 92 has a slide safety.. it'd be one awkward holster reaching back up that far. My 1911 has an ambi safety.. again.. weird if it was covered.

JTQ
October 18, 2012, 11:22 AM
TarDevil wrote,
Ruger SR9c. I own and use several different holsters and none of them cover the safety...I haven't found one online that does.

While I don't own one, when I've asked the SR9/SR40 users on this forum how they manage the safety on their pistols, most say they leave it off, and treat the pistol like the majority of other striker pistols that don't have a thumb safety.

While it's not my "cup of tea", you may want to look at forum member R.W. Dale's new holster made for him by fellow forum member cpirtle. It will cover the safety on both sides of your pistol. You can find it in this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=676482

C0untZer0
October 18, 2012, 11:48 AM
HK P7M8

Brilliant design

Superb German engineering

Solves these problems...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=172688&stc=1&d=1348960387
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173578&stc=1&d=1350571606

RBid
October 18, 2012, 12:57 PM
I like safeties for an extra little bit of peace of mind while holstering, but that's about it. I would carry my SR9c just as confidently without a safety.

For trivia's sake: I've never accidentally disengaged the safety. I carry my SR9c all day, every day. Until recently, carrying at work meant concealing while managing Starbucks stores (yes), and concealing while managing an import store. Both jobs involved a mix of desk work and dynamic activity. Lots of movement, reaching, squatting, working in confined spaces, etc. This last has mostly been added for the benefit of prospective SR owners. The safety mechanism is sound.

TarDevil
October 18, 2012, 01:22 PM
Thanks for the link, JTQ. Great looking holster! I may go that route if an IWB is possible

The safety mechanism is sound.
Agreed. Couple of times I was aware of hitting a table corner and heard the safety click. Other times weren't so apparent. I'm just clumsy.

bigfatdave
October 18, 2012, 02:13 PM
If you drill it into your draw to remove the safety.. and its already off, your draw will just be flicking off something that is already off.. aka.. shouldn't change anything.yes
In fact, I only carry guns that work that way - no safety or "down for bang" safety. I'm not smart enough to remember that today I'm carrying an "up for bang" gun

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