CZ 452 .22 LUX Not as Advertised - What to Do?


PDA






Missouri Farmer
October 16, 2012, 08:54 PM
I'd like to get some perspective on my situation. I've been looking for a CZ 452 LUX .22LR rifle with the hogback walnut stock since they are discontinued and it's a really nice rifle with awsome iron sights. I found one posted on this forum from an out of state private seller and struck a deal for $350.

The rifle arrived at my FFL in the condition described and I told the seller all looked good. After getting it home and setting it next to another rifle I have with a walnut stock, I noticed the stock looked like beech, not walnut. I e-mailed the serial number to the CZ factory, and today, a week and a half later, they replied that the rifle is a Trainer with beech stock, not a Lux with walnut stock. Other than the stock, the Trainer and Lux are identical.

I e-mailed the seller and told him that I want to return the rifle for a refund since it is not as advertised. I told him I was sure it was an honest mistake and I would even pay the return shipping to his FFL. He replied that he waited a week to make sure everything was good, and has now spent the money and has no way to refund it. I feel cheated.

What would you do in this situation? Am I just stuck with the Trainer? It's a nice rifle with a great trigger but I really wanted the walnut stock.


http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae211/ncordz01/CZ452.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "CZ 452 .22 LUX Not as Advertised - What to Do?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ColtPythonElite
October 16, 2012, 09:07 PM
Yep, you are most likely stuck unless you sue him in small claims court.

Sam1911
October 16, 2012, 09:30 PM
Wait...you couldn't tell the difference between beech and walnut ... were happy with the rifle as is, believing it was walnut ... and now someone else told you it isn't walnut and now you don't like it after all?

Seriously? All that changed between "looks good" and "doesn't look good" is your perception of one species of wood being more worthy than another. If it was appealing to you before, don't let a mental hangup about intangible properties of the wood ruin it for you.

As it is, most common trial periods run about 3 days. If you can't determine whether a gun is what you wanted or not within 3 days, I'd say that's too bad -- you've done bought it.

If it took the factory verifying a detail to prove to you whether or not you like this rifle...wow. A walnut one won't do a single thing the beech one can't do, and you've already proved that one is as good as the other in your eyes.

:)

And honestly, I'd be quite proud to own that rifle. Very pretty and a good deal!

firesky101
October 16, 2012, 09:34 PM
Perhaps a compromise. Maybe a partial refund and you keep the rifle. Sure it is not what you were looking for, but I don't think you got a terrible deal to begin with on what you ended up with. Work with the seller, he may not have the means for a full refund, but this is THR and most people I have dealt with strive to represent what this forum is about.

Edit: hey, hey post #1000. I spend too much time here.:D

ColtPythonElite
October 16, 2012, 09:40 PM
I think about a $50 refund would be fair.

cpt-t
October 16, 2012, 09:45 PM
Missouri Farmer: I am sorry for you that you didn`t get what was promised. But my Son and I both shoot a CZ 452 TRAINER and they both have beech stocks, we both feel they are the most accurate 22 cal rifles we own. The sights are really something, I didn`t a 22 lr would shoot accuratley out to 200 yds. What I am saying give you CZ trainer a try you might just change you mind. We have had our rifles 2 or 3 yrs now and have no complaints with the beech stock or anything else about our two rifles. I bet you are going to learn to really like your rifle.
ken

Rob62
October 16, 2012, 10:56 PM
My thought is this. An honorable seller would take the rifle back. It is NOT what was advertised, plain and simple. Clearly you are not a wood expert and had to E mail CZ to confirm your suspicion that the rifle in fact was not as advertised. The only thing that I think you should have done differently is notify the seller as soon as you had suspicion of it not being what was advertised.

I suspect that it probably was an honest mistake on the part of the seller. My experience is that it is not about the mistakes that one makes, but how they deal with them.

A partial refund, if acceptable to you is probably the best way for the seller to rectify the problem. But ultimately if the seller does not agree to take the rifle back, or to a partial refund, you may have to take him to court - which may be more trouble than its worth.

Wishing you a good outcome.

Regards,
Rob

22-rimfire
October 16, 2012, 11:17 PM
The trainer has the beech stocks and I believe the Lux has a walnut stock. Haven't priced the trainer lately, but I believe you essentially paid near "full retail" or what they are commonly sold for new. Knock $100 off and you had a great deal.

I e-mailed the seller and told him that I want to return the rifle for a refund since it is not as advertised. I told him I was sure it was an honest mistake and I would even pay the return shipping to his FFL. He replied that he waited a week to make sure everything was good, and has now spent the money and has no way to refund it. I feel cheated.

I wouldn't be real happy either. The trainer is a great rifle however. If I were him, I would seek an acceptable resolution to the problem. If you return the rifle to him for a refund, then it may be a while before you see your money back. Just my take on what you said...

denton
October 16, 2012, 11:58 PM
Fundamental rule of the road: If you sell something, you cannot deliver something different. If the seller has your money and you don't have what you were promised, he has breached the contract and cannot find refuge behind a statement that the examination or return period has expired, or that he has already spent the money.

The seller is responsible for knowing what he is selling. The operative phrase is "knew or should have known".

As a practical matter, FFL fees and shipping would run up the cost of undoing the deal.

Take the difference between the street price of the two rifles, multiply that by .75. That's a fair settlement, if he'll send you the cash.

akodo
October 17, 2012, 12:03 AM
You paid for a specific rifle, he sent you something else. Officially the 3 day period doesn't start until you have the correct item in your hands.

However the reasonable solution is to ask for the difference in price between the two.

SaxonPig
October 17, 2012, 08:38 AM
You should be allowed to return. You likely will not be able to do it. Real world. Sell it locally and buy one you can hold in your hands before spending money.

j1
October 17, 2012, 09:00 AM
I have the exact same rifle except in 17 HMR. I shoots great and I love the cartridge. The sights are nice as you said. It is the oly rifle I own that has hi mounts so that I could possibly use the open sights. I bought it and researched it on the internet and found that it had a beech stock. Great rifle just in case you are stuck with it. I bought it at Gander Mountain and no one made any statement that the stock was walnut. At that price I am not surprised that the stock is beech.:)

HoosierQ
October 17, 2012, 12:01 PM
The problem with the advice you're getting is that, unless the seller is inclined (and able) to refund the money as a matter of honor, your only recourse is to sue him. If he lives in another state, I don't think you'll be able to touch him without filing a claim in his state. Yes there are laws about false advertising and all that...but you have to initiate a lawsuit to obtain remedy.

So unless you are a man of absolutley uncompromizing principles, you should continue to negotiate with the seller (I guess) but make sure you have an exit strategy...like when you'll just drop it.

FWIW, you did obtain an extremely nice rifle that you can be proud to own. All you need to do is take it to the range and say "Hey fellas, I got me a CZ .22lr"...and they'll all drool...making no distinction between a trainer and a lux.

Just sayin'...

heron
October 17, 2012, 12:23 PM
I'd suggest trying to negotiate with the seller for a partial refund, but if he won't, then just get over it and enjoy what you have. How far would you have to go to get one in walnut, seeing as they're discontinuing that model?

Take the path of least resistance (and expense) -- after all, you've got a beautiful rifle in very nice wood furniture. People are paying as much and more now to get plastic. Appeal to the seller's sense of honor, and if he doesn't have one, put it out of your head and enjoy the gun as is.

BSA1
October 17, 2012, 12:37 PM
You state that "I told the seller all looked good." In my books this means the customer is happy with his purchase and the transaction has been satisfactorily closed.

Then over a week later you have buyer's remorse and want refund.

As the seller I would not refund your money either. Nor have you made a case that you will lose money if you were to resell it.

clamman
October 17, 2012, 02:48 PM
I also say forget about it and shoot the dang thing. You'll love that CZ, take it from me. And besides, if you run into some extra $$$ someday, call CZ and git you sum Walnut!

d2wing
October 17, 2012, 03:42 PM
I have 2 cz's, a Lux and American. The Lux has the standard beech stock. I still have the box it came in. It says Lux on it. $ 350 is a good price and trainers have won many matches. My American does have a terrific Walnut stock. The Lux shoots a little better. CZ rifles are sold in many configurations some unique to the retailer. I think you got a fair deal but but check online prices and if you can come to some kind of agreement with the guy all is good. I think what you have is an Ultra Lux, like a regular Lux except beech instead of walnut. If you can find a like new one for any less you are very lucky. A Walnut stock Lux is over $400. Buds has some.

bamajoey
October 17, 2012, 07:35 PM
d2wing said:

"I have 2 cz's, a Lux and American. The Lux has the standard beech stock. I still have the box it came in. It says Lux on it. $ 350 is a good price and trainers have won many matches. My American does have a terrific Walnut stock. The Lux shoots a little better. CZ rifles are sold in many configurations some unique to the retailer. I think you got a fair deal but but check online prices and if you can come to some kind of agreement with the guy all is good. I think what you have is an Ultra Lux, like a regular Lux except beech instead of walnut. If you can find a like new one for any less you are very lucky. A Walnut stock Lux is over $400. Buds has some."



The Lux comes from the factory with a walnut stock, the Trainer comes from the factory with a beech stock. Both come with a 24 in barrel. The stock is the only difference between the two. The Ultra Lux comes from the factory with a beech stock and a 28 in barrel.

Looking at the picture, Missouri Farmer has a 452 Trainer. d2wing what you have if it has a beech stock is a Trainer regardless what it says on the box.:)

berettaprofessor
October 17, 2012, 10:44 PM
Just go shoot the thing. You'll feel better immediately.

Fremmer
October 17, 2012, 11:08 PM
If it makes you feel any better, the first scratch won't be as irritating as it would be on that fancy walnut stock. I would just shoot it and chalk it up to a internet experience. At least you didn't get totally ripped off (which happens).

Let us know how she shoots ...

commygun
October 17, 2012, 11:36 PM
Agree with those who say chalk it up to experience and enjoy the rifle. It is my all-time favorite .22 and a great rifle regardless of what wood it's stocked with. Shoot the hell out of it and in a few years you'll feel like you got it cheap.

Impureclient
October 18, 2012, 12:13 AM
First of all, you can always sell it for no loss. So there's that. Second of all..."he has now spent the money and has no way to refund it".
Really.
So there are people out there buying more expensive rimfire rifles that are at wits end selling them to pay the bills? You sound forgiving giving him the benefit
of the doubt in that he didn't know what he had. Anybody with that kind of gun knows what it is and doesn't confuse that line of CZs any more
than a guy would sell a Wilson thinking it was a RIA. Some how he came to the conclusion it was a Lux and sold it that way. Its is just highly doubtful he is innocent.

treg
October 18, 2012, 05:57 AM
Yup, you got screwed, intentionally or not. Whether or not he's got the money (probably not) you ain't gonna see any of it. People are funny like that. Welcome to the world of buying sight unseen on a sight with no rating system.

An honorable seller would have made things right or be seriously communicating with you by now. Try what you want but the ball is ultimately in his court.

You could always buy one with a walnut stock then pedal this one.

Apple a Day
October 18, 2012, 06:02 AM
Buy a walnut stock. Send the seller the bill.

45_auto
October 18, 2012, 06:54 AM
Buy a walnut stock. Send the seller the bill.

Buy yourself a Ferrari, a new house, and a couple of new guns while you're at it and send the seller the bill for those also. He has the same amount of responsibility for those as he does for your new stock! :rolleyes:

Carl N. Brown
October 18, 2012, 07:07 AM
If the seller honestly thought the stock was walnut and sold the gun as a Lux when it wasn't, yes he should be honor bound to pony up a refund. Bad on his head.

But $350 for a nice CZ 452 in beech stock is not a rip off either. I would chalk it up to a caveat emptor lesson. Sometimes, too, pursuit of justice costs more than the original offense.

That photo looks as good as my son's 452 and honestly I don't know if his stock is walnut or beech, but he paid more for his. His enjoyment has already exceeded the sale price.

Old Shooter
October 18, 2012, 07:26 AM
It will probably cost you more in aggravation than any money you get back from him will be worth. If you truely do not like or want the gun, put it up for sale locally or on one of the gun boards and list it as a Trainer, sounds like you may get most of your costs back that way, mayby even make a buck or two.

Then continue your search for the Lux. You know now that he first thing to do is make sure it has a walnut stock and hopefully the next one will be as nice looking as the one you have now.

I would personally keep that one you have now and keep looking for the Lux to add to the collection, but that is just me.

Onmilo
October 18, 2012, 11:55 PM
I would keep the rifle and not worry about the wood.
Yes Walnut is a prettier wood but beech was used on training rifles because it is more durable and much more resistant to warping when wet.
Did you buy the rifle to look at it or shoot it?

In my opinion people only get upset at the price of a weapon if the real purpose of the purchase is anticipated profit.

That gun will appreciate in price over time because the model is now dicontinued and they are a classic in rimfire rifle design.

HoosierQ
October 19, 2012, 07:23 AM
I don't think the OP is listening any more. If ever. He obviously joined THR just to post this issue. He still has only one post so he isn't commenting on what we've said here or participating in any other conversations...asking questions, making contributions.

I think he's long gone.

Missouri Farmer
October 19, 2012, 05:26 PM
Thanks for the input fellas. It's nice to get some other people's perspective, and as should be expected, everyone has a different opinion. I do believe the seller has an obligation to correctly represent what he is selling.

Good news is I've found and purchased a very nice CZ 452 Lux with walnut stock. This Trainer will be posted soon on Gunbroker.

bamajoey
October 20, 2012, 01:39 PM
If these are your first CZ's, keep both of them for a couple months, that way you won't have to buy your second CZ. You will already have it. I was going to buy just one, two years ago. Now I have five, and looking for #6.:D

Remander
October 20, 2012, 11:58 PM
If Sam1911 bought what was advertised to be a diamond and found out later it was cubic zirconium, but looked just as good, he apparently would be fine with that.

Glad the OP eventually got what he wanted.

Acera
October 22, 2012, 03:28 PM
Good news is I've found and purchased a very nice CZ 452 Lux with walnut stock. This Trainer will be posted soon on Gunbroker.

Why not post it here instead and save yourself the fees that gunbroker charges?????

Impureclient
October 22, 2012, 07:36 PM
CZforumsite.info and rimfirecentral.com also have a lot of traffic of CZ lovers.

chicharrones
October 24, 2012, 09:06 AM
If Sam1911 bought what was advertised to be a diamond and found out later it was cubic zirconium, but looked just as good, he apparently would be fine with that.

:D

Except the steel in the CZ is the diamond. The Walnut vs. Beech is the ring the diamond is mounted in, which is more like 14K gold vs. 10K gold.

9mmepiphany
October 24, 2012, 01:20 PM
I think the OP has had his question answered and has found his own resolution

If you enjoyed reading about "CZ 452 .22 LUX Not as Advertised - What to Do?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!