ReLoading for the AR 10 #*^%!! AARGG


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gkdir
October 17, 2012, 11:25 AM
:cuss:Just about to convert a Bushmaster LAR 10--.308, into a boat anchor. Ok, I know its not the weapon, its the lack of knowledge of the operator--I will concede the point. Here is my delima. I have successfully loaded for several different .308 bolt guns--got the process, and results, down pat. Then I just had to have a AR 10. Several range trips later (200rds) I decide to start prepping the brass(1x) for reloading. Go to decap, and FL--lordy this ain't working, something is major wrong--can't get the brass to FL size. Fellow tells me I need small base dies--ok, got a 2pc. set of RCBS dies--same delima?? Would some one on here take me thru a step by step process on reloading for this application. Another thing--I have been told that rds shot thru, and reloaded for an AR should not be used in bolt guns,,yet those rds prepped, and reloaded for a bolt gun are just fine thru an AR. I just don,t see me constantly "ruining" my brass in order to use this piece. :cuss: My frustration meter is about pegged :confused:

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rcmodel
October 17, 2012, 11:49 AM
You didn't need small base dies.

What kind of case lube are you using in your resizing attempt?

If your sizing die is adjusted properly, and you use decent case lube, there should be no reason you can't resize any .308 brass.

To adjust the die properly.
Run the press ram up.
Screw the die down against the shell holder, then another 1/8 turn or so to make up for press flex.
Lock the die lock ring.

As for using AR-10 loads in a bolt-action or not?
No reason not to.

The goal of your reloading is to make .308 ammo equal to or better then factory ammo..
It should be as close to factory spec as you can make it, and therefore suitable for use in any .308 rifle, regardless of the action type.

rc

gkdir
October 17, 2012, 01:42 PM
"rc"
Is it possible that the chamber specs on this particular rifle are "extreme". When attempting to de-cap, and FL the brass that has been shot thru the AR, its as if the brass is significately over size. Dies (both small base and standard) are RCBS, case lube is RCBS sizing lube, dies are clean, dies are adjusted properly, press is a Lymon--I have the combination figured--just not working.
When I attempt the "down" stroke to de-cap and FL, the pressure exerted is off the chart, and it still won't go far enough to FL. It leaves a very visible "ridge" at the base of the brass, and won't go beyond it. Makes no diff. what set of dies I use. So far this has all been R-P brass originally from Federal blue box ammo, shot originally thru this AR. I'm stumped!!

LennieT
October 17, 2012, 02:56 PM
It would be interesting to see a picture of one of these cases after you try to size it. If the chamber being out of spec is causing this I think it would qualify as "extreme!"

LennieT

Edarnold
October 17, 2012, 03:33 PM
If you bought the gun new, I think it's time to send some fired cases to the manufacturer and ask for an explanation. If you bought it used, you may have discovered why the previous owner sold it...

IMHO

popper
October 17, 2012, 03:51 PM
What is the OD of the brass from the ar vs the bolt gun? .460/.453 base/shoulder for mine(LR308). You can check saami specs. DPMS should make it good if new, else you could get a new bbl for it.

jmorris
October 17, 2012, 07:23 PM
Just guessing here but if you only neck sized for your bolt guns you could have gotten away without using lube. If that's the case your in for more work.

FL sizing is going to require lube and likely trimming, your also going to want a case gauge as your not going to have the camover that the bolts had if your a little shy on the resize.
You can get by without one but if you are already PO'ed it will help your blood pressure.

If it still bothers you that much, I'm sure I have an extra 308 bolt rifle around here, I'll swap you for it.

SlamFire1
October 17, 2012, 07:29 PM
Heck if I know, the place to start is Bushmaster.

I have small base sized FAL brass with my Lyman T Mag and Redding T-7. The military chamber is huge, I could have parked a Zepplein inside that Argentine barrel, and it took a lot of effort, I used RCBS water soluble and Imperial Sizing wax, to size that brass.

My M1a brass, takes a bit of effort but not bad to small base size. My M1a barrels are match and the gunsmiths used standard reamers.

It is possible that Bushmaster used a huge reamer. Call them and find out.

FROGO207
October 17, 2012, 07:36 PM
If it is too hard to resize you can try taking the decapper/neck size ball out of the die and try it that way. I have had MG fired military 7.62 and run them down my 30-06 die with the stem out first and resized as usual afterwards. There is a problem there and I think you might want to try a different lube and see if that helps any. FWIW You could try dipping your fingers in some full strength Dawn and coating the casing with it. Then try to size it. Sometimes this method will work ---I use it on 500 S&W and 30 Carbine brass to ease the pressure when using carbide dies. Have you sized any brass for your bolt guns with this setup? Are they as hard to resize? Let us know how it turns out.

MrCountyCop
October 18, 2012, 07:47 AM
Imperial Sizing Wax

steve4102
October 18, 2012, 08:28 AM
It leaves a very visible "ridge" at the base of the brass,

Pictures?

hentown
October 18, 2012, 08:42 AM
I use both RCBS X dies and Lee standard steel dies for reloading for my ARs. The Lee dies work a lot smoother in my Dillon 650 press. You don't need small base dies. You haven't mentiioned that there's a problem chambering your loaded rounds, just that you're having trouble sizing the brass. Take the advice to get a case gage for properly settin up the sizing die. I use Wilson case gages.

I also use spray-bottle lube from Midway. I lay the brass down FLAT in a box and spray. The lube will migrate around the cases. Be sure and let the lube dry before sizing the brass.

W.E.G.
October 18, 2012, 09:03 AM
What case gage are you using to measure the resized cases to confirm that the base-to-shoulder dimension is correct?

What method are you using to ensure that the decapping stem is not bottoming-out on the inside of the case before the case can be fully resized?

gkdir
October 18, 2012, 09:30 AM
Thanks to all who responded. I can always count on good info when going to this forum. Now to the good part. PROBLEM SOLVED!. No, I'm not going to reveal what it was. No, I'm not even going to give a hint. Yes, I do admitt it was all operator error (actually mechanical ) I just can't see me admitting a screw up of this proportion on an open forum. The clue was given by one of the responses, then I extended it a bit--and "viola", the clouds parted , and all was well. Having sat down last night, and this morning, FL sized, de-capped, trimmed to length,cleaned primer holes, de-burred, chamfered, 44.1gr of H-4895, 165gr PSP flat base, WLR primer, at a C.O.A.L. of 2.781--stepped out back and ran 20rds--bingo! Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together.
G

popper
October 18, 2012, 09:59 AM
So you screwed the die down too far and buckled the case - no reason to hide it, we've all done much worse.

jmorris
October 18, 2012, 11:33 AM
No, I'm not going to reveal what it was. No, I'm not even going to give a hint. Yes, I do admitt it was all operator error (actually mechanical ) I just can't see me admitting a screw up of this proportion on an open forum.

That is the point of the forum, to learn from others that have made the mistake so you don't have to go through the whole process.

If it were something silly like, you found out operating the handle without any case in the shell holder, that the effort was just as much as when you were resizing a case because you had the die screwed down too far and trying to crush the shell holder...don't feed bad it's been done before. I even had to machine the die for more room after that.

rcmodel
October 18, 2012, 01:19 PM
I'm betting W.E.G. nailed it in the second sentance in post #13!

Come on gkdir, fess up!

It may help solve someone elses problem in the future.

rc

W.E.G.
October 18, 2012, 01:40 PM
I'll confess.

I done it!

Bent the bejeezus out the stem too.

Not the only time I ever bent a stem.
Get lazy and let ONE PIECE of Berdan brass get in your supply line and...

TWANGGGGGG!!! http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/smileys/homersimpson.gif

If you're lucky you just break the decapping pin.
I now keep a supply of stems (not just decapping pins), because when I've got a tub of lubed brass ready to go, I don't want to have to go get on the internet and wait a week for one new decapping stem to show up in the mail.

LennieT
October 18, 2012, 04:17 PM
I am voting with rcmodel; "second sentance in post #13!"

Although, I can't see how, "I have successfully loaded for several different .308 bolt guns--got the process, and results, down pat."

If that, in fact, is the case seems like the die would have already been setup correctly.

C'mon man! Enquiring minds want to know.

LennieT

KansasSasquatch
October 19, 2012, 02:42 AM
I'm not too proud to admit I've had the stem set too low before. On .45acp even. Felt like an idiot after I figured it out.

Centurian22
October 19, 2012, 04:28 AM
Indeed we are all curious to learn. I have not started reloading yet and want to learn all that I can before starting. People admit to negligent discharges on here surely you can share a simple reloading mishap?

My vote (if he reloads for other calibers) is mixing up / using the wrong caliber resizing die. Just opting for something different.

FROGO207
October 19, 2012, 08:02 AM
The part I like about the Lee dies the best is that would just push the pin/button up where it needed to be in the first place and not break/bend anything.:cool: I have never broken a decapping pin on a Lee die but did bend one trying to decap a A-MERC 357 brass with a flash hole that was waaay off center.:fire:
I agree with others that WEG nailed it.:)

MachIVshooter
October 19, 2012, 11:37 PM
Not the only time I ever bent a stem.
Get lazy and let ONE PIECE of Berdan brass get in your supply line and...

TWANGGGGGG!!!

If you're lucky you just break the decapping pin.
I now keep a supply of stems (not just decapping pins), because when I've got a tub of lubed brass ready to go, I don't want to have to go get on the internet and wait a week for one new decapping stem to show up in the mail.

Same here. I keep a pair of .308 and .224 stems and about a dozen pins on hand these days. When doing 1,000+ cases at a time, one or two Berdan primed cases are bound to slip through the cracks.

popper
October 20, 2012, 12:51 PM
It's even funnier when sizing decapping 40SW and something doesn't feel quite right. Take the die apart and find a 22LR casing impaled and form fitting the stem. Yea, we all mess up.

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