I just ordered some .38 cal 158 gr HP Rainier lead safe bullets for 357 mag.
After reading some posts here, now I'm concerned about them. (I should have done some homework before I ordered.)
1. They have no crimp groove.
a. What do I do about crimping? I just have a Lee standard carbide die set, so if I'm understanding right, the crimp die may not be the right choice (???).
b. How do you know how heavy to crimp a smooth plated bullet?
2. I can't find any "real" load data.
So, can anyone give me any good recipes when using HP38 or Unique?
I'll be shooting the reloads in a Taurus model 66 (3" barrel)and a Ruger New Blackhawk (6-1/2" barrel).
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October 18, 2012, 07:18 AM
The plating is soft enough that you can still roll crimp. Just don't over crimp and peel the plating.
Taper crimp the Ranier in .38/.357. It is much easier to set up than a slight roll crimp, and is very forgiving of case length.
October 18, 2012, 05:04 PM
You won't be able to push them to full speed for a couple of reasons, they don't perform well over 1,200 fps, and the taper or light roll crimp won't hold the bullets under recoil, especially in a light gun.
October 18, 2012, 06:49 PM
Give them a good tight taper crimp, keep them at or under 1200ish FPS, and you will likely be fine.
158's at 1150 FPS will keep you knee deep in fun all day long.
October 19, 2012, 09:41 AM
With plated bullets be safe and apply a taper crimp so as not to cut through the plating. You will experience bullet creep out of 357 magnum cases since the loaded round sits only a few millimeters from the front end of the cylinder. I have used them with 357 mag brass at ca 700 fps but prefer to use them in 38 Special brass where the bullet creep will not prevent the cylinder from turning.
October 19, 2012, 11:58 AM
Both of your .357 handguns are on the heavy side. This is good. You should be able to push the plated 158g bullets to around 1000-1100fps with a decent taper crimp w/o the bullet coming out. At these target velocities, you should be fine.
In an airweight snub-nose, I have gone to 125g plated to keep the bullet from pulling out of the case.
October 19, 2012, 02:00 PM
I checked the Lee site to see about a stand alone taper crimp die and they say it's basically useless because their seating/crimping dies produced after 1986 perform a "modified taper crimp".
Any comments on that statement guys? I really don't know the difference between rolled and tapered as far as how they look.
Do I just use my standard seating/crimp die ands play with the crimp, trying for a light crimp?
I'm beginning to think these bullets are more trouble than the slight savings. I may just try to sell them.
Edit (add) : I guess I may just use these Rainiers for 38SP (as per TonyT's suggestion) and use my Hornady bullets for 357.
October 19, 2012, 02:52 PM
I really don't know the difference between rolled and tapered as far as how they look.
The not-to-scale drawing below shows the essential difference between flat taper crimp that just returns flared case mouth back flat against the bullet, light taper crimp that indents the bullet side and heavy roll crimp that crimps into the crimp groove.
Walkalong posted some nice picture samples of various light/medium/heavy roll crimp and taper crimped cases on this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5864147#post5864147
.38 cal 158 gr HP Rainier lead safe bullets for 357 mag ... They have no crimp groove. Do I just use my standard seating/crimp die ands play with the crimp, trying for a light crimp?
Here's Walkalong's pictures of light taper crimp on Berry's plated .357 bullet without a crimp groove.