[Remllez]

I gave up league shooting and reloading in 1976 when my youngest was born and packed up all the gear, then when he got his own place and started shooting he asked if he could "borrow the reloading stuff in the basement".

Long story short he's now in the position I was in in 1976 and he asked me if I wanted my stuff back. My question is. Should I get back into reloading at this stage of my life?

I still try to shoot at least once a week and my monthly round count is under 500 rounds or so. I've been buying factory loaded ammo in bulk for a long time now but it seems to be getting very expensive. Or is it just me?

I forgot to mention I would be reloading revolver rounds....(.357/.38 and 9mm.)

[MADDOG]

Yes---I did the same thing years ago. I was to busy with work and raising kids and put my reloading equipment away for many years. As I got closer to retirement I started thinking about starting up again. Over the years I bought powder, primers, cases and bullets whenever I found them cheap. I got it all out and I am reloading again and shooting more. Even though my press is an old 3 hole Lee Turret Press it is working just fine for me again. I say get it out and get loading.

[RugerBob]

Well, if you already have the tools, why not. Got brass if you saved yours. Just need powder and primers right?
Calibers would help. Some ammo is not as money saving as others. Since I cast I load a box of 50 count 45acp for about 3 bucks. Thats figuring 3 cents each for primers and powder per round.
If you buy jacketed, about 6-7 bucks a box I believe.
the wife and I go through about 4000 rounds each of 45LC and 38spl.
just my 2 cents.

[SaxonPig]

Depends.

It is cheaper than buying ammo, but what is your time worth? My wife's boss in a big shot lawyer who charges $250 an hour... will he save money by spending an hour reloading a box of 38s? No. What is your time worth?

Some calibers require loading your own, like the 38 S&W for example. hard to find and pricey when you do. I have a couple of rifles in obsolete calibers so no factory fodder is even available. I have one wildcat caliber rifle and that's the same situation.

Loading your own is sometimes economically logical. Required for some calibers, and advisable for others where high performance factory ammo is not available.

[blarby]

Heck ya !

Why not ?

While shooting isn't exactly like riding a bike, it will come back to you with a quickness.

I'm guessing you are at or nearing retirement age by the story lifespan here, and reloading would be even better then. Both an abundance of free time, and a desire to save wherever you can are great motivators.

[gpb]

Is reloading worth it?

The OP doesn’t state what is being reloaded, but since league shooting is referenced I’ll assume it refers to shotgun reloading.

The major driver in the cost of shotgun reloading is the cost of shot. Therefore, from a purely economic view and assuming you don’t include your time in the cost the following is a quick summary.

12 gauge 1 oz and above: Not worth it

12 gauge 7/8 oz and below: Marginal, do it if you like it

20 gauge 7/8 oz and below: Marginal, do it if you like it

28 gauge: Worth while

.410: Worth while

I reload 12 gauge 7/8 and below. A very slight savings, but I enjoy it and have plenty of time and light loads like these are difficult to buy.

[Reloadron]

Is reloading really worth it?

I guess that really depends on why some people choose to roll their own. Most of what I load I load to tailor for specific guns, especially high power rifle loadings. There are time when I can buy a cartridge in a specific caliber for less or the same as what it cost me to make one. The big gain for me in making my own is I can load ammunition that gives those nice tight little groups we look for when shooting off a bench. Benchrest shooters being a good example.

As to what one's time may or may not be worth? Really matters not if you would not be working during your loading hours anyway.

Ron

[Sav .250]

Re-loading is the only way to go if you (anybody) really burns up the ammo. Kind of like a shotgunner. They seem to shoot till the barrel gets so hot ....it droops. If you live for the range.......... re-load. JMO.

[Remllez]

I sent most of the brass to him over the years but I still got a nice pile of once fired Starline brass I forgot to send him. :) But like Saxon says my time is worth something as well.

Blarby you made me laugh about the riding the bicycle thing because I have tried that recently but i wasnt very good at that i can tell you....lol..... I've got RCBS and Lee gear that we both used hard for a number of years but still runs good he says.

I shoot mainly .357/.38 which seems to be getting more expensive everytime I order it. But 9mm I still find for good prices all the time. I do appreciate the responses, so far I'm leaning towards just .357 and maybe .38's since the dies are the same.

Thanks again for the replies guys it helps knowing that I'm not the only one in the boat.

[SSN Vet]

Did you enjoy reloading? Or just do it for economy?

I personally enjoy reloading.... so saving money is like gravy.

Since you already have the set up available to you, getting back into it sounds like a no brainer to me.

[Zeke/PA]

Yes,Reloading is worth it.
Except for some handgun calibers, I reload EVERYTHING.
Shot a bunch of deer in my lifetime and only one, my first, with a factory round, a .22 Hornet.

[303tom]

In a word...............Yes !

[Drail]

It absolutely is if you want quality ammo. I wouldn't buy any factory ammo these days even if it was cheaper than my handloads. QC is a forgotten concept now.

[JustinJ]

A huge cost of reloading is time. The only person who knows if the time is worth it is the person reloading. I've just gotten into it but eventually i plan on moving up to a progressive to maximize my bullet to time ratio. Obviously the setup cost will also be higher but i think it worthwhile.

[Il Duca]

I don't do a lot of target shooting outside rimfire so I really only reload when I have a caliber that's hard to find. I've done .375 H&H and Win, .358 Win, .303 Brit, stuff like that. It saves money on the .375 for sure- that's my main round I reload for atm and .303 is hard to find good hunting ammo so I reload that as well.

For target work it wouldn't be worth it for me but add it up and see if it saves you money. If it doesn't I wouldn't do it unless you enjoy it. If you enjoy it, do it either way.

[Arkansas Paul]

It is cheaper than buying ammo, but what is your time worth? My wife's boss in a big shot lawyer who charges $250 an hour... will he save money by spending an hour reloading a box of 38s? No. What is your time worth?


If you're loading strictly to save money, then I can see this being a valid argument. For most though, loading is a hobby within itself. I don't calculate my time when I go play golf, or fish, so why would I with a different hobby?
That attorney who bills at $250/hr, doesn't calculate his time when he's on the golf course or at home sipping scotch and smoking a cigar. Though he prolly does bill time on the golf course from time to time. :)
As far as saving money, I sure haven't. I pay less per round, no doubt, but I spend 3x what I used to. Sounds like our situations may be a little different though.

[beatledog7]

Worth it in monetary or time spent terms? Only you can decide. I like reloading and would do it if it saved me nada. It's a great way to enhance the shooting hobby and engage in it when I can't get to the range.

[Remllez]

Drail, I agree with you about quality loading. I've tried to buy small sample lots from ammo companies to find the most consistent I could. I don't shoot for score or competitions anymore but still don't like shooting junk.

If we shoot at my place there's steel dingers, bowling pins, torso boards, and paper targets for serious bragging and betting shots but it's all for fun and mainly to keep me sharp. The youngsters really like reactive targets so it's a fun learning experience for them.

When I did reload it was mainly for the money savings but I still made good shooting rounds. It was never Zen like for me then but it may be now I guess I won't know unless I try.

[FullEffect1911]

I reload for everything but shotgun. I think it is worth it even for 9mm practice ammo mainly because I can have more accurate ammo, with the power level and weight I want, for about half the cost of say 115 grain 9mm WWB.

I don't count my time spent at the bench because I considered it hobby.

[tyeo098]

I can make a box of 50 9mm for 6.25

Wally world want 12 (now).

Almost 50% discount and I get to listen to dubstep while I do it.

Shooting and reloading, one hobby feeds the other!

[SuperNaut]

Cost effective? Not really

The real value is in having ammo when it is scarce or expensive, and it's fun!

[Owen Sparks]

Here is the bottom line.

If you start reloading you are NOT going to save any money.

Uou are just going to shoot a whole heck of a lot more!

[Arkansas Paul]

I was discussing this with another THR member, fallout mike, just yesterday. Reloading can save you some money in terms of cost per round.
However, if you really want to tap into some incredible savings, casting is where it's at.
Since I began casting, I can load:

1,000 rounds of .45 Colt for just under $75.00.
1,000 rounds of .38 Special for about $68.00, give or take.

I've never loaded .357 mag or 9mm, but the savings would still be great on bullets. For instance you could cast 115 grain 9mm bullets for less than $17.00 per thousand. That's at the prices I'm paying right now for wheel weights.

I know you didn't ask about casting, but you did ask whether it's worth it. The real money savings come with casting in my experience.

[crazyjennyblack]

I like to look at it this way -

I do save money reloading for my common calibers, but not enough to justify my time. Basic reloading is simply good practice for doing what I really like with the equipment: custom ammunition. I can try sabot rounds, different bullets, brass bullets, whatever I fancy. I recently took surplus .30 AP bullets and loaded a handful of special rounds for a friend's Remington Ultra-Mag. This is stuff you just can't buy anywhere, so it's more of a fun/exploration factor for me. Plus, by measuring correctly and double checking and being careful, you can turn out higher quality match ammo tailored to the gun you're shooting. It's not so much about the dollars and cents as it is about the satisfaction of doing it yourself and doing it well.

[chhodge69]

Yes it's worth it - especially if you don't have to purchase the equipment.

That's assuming you'd actually enjoy it. If it's just a chore to you then no, not worth it.

[JohnM]

If you have to ask the question, maybe it ain't for you.
People who think they need to justify, in some manner, every minute of their time or track every penny they spend for something, may never like to reload.

For a lot of us it's part of the shooting sport.
As an added bonus I always get better ammunition for less than the cost of buying factory loads of what I shoot.

[horsemen61]

Yes sir I think its worth it.

[Sheepdog1968]

Depends.

It is cheaper than buying ammo, but what is your time worth? My wife's boss in a big shot lawyer who charges $250 an hour... will he save money by spending an hour reloading a box of 38s? No. What is your time worth?

Some calibers require loading your own, like the 38 S&W for example. hard to find and pricey when you do. I have a couple of rifles in obsolete calibers so no factory fodder is even available. I have one wildcat caliber rifle and that's the same situation.

Loading your own is sometimes economically logical. Required for some calibers, and advisable for others where high performance factory ammo is not available.
I think what is your time worth can be an important consideration. I have but a few hours now a week at most of free time. As such, I'd rather spend it shooting. I can see when I'm retired I will have lots of time on my hands and then it can make sense.

[jcwit]

Worth it? Yup, without question. Do I shoot more? No, not anymore, its 30 miles one way to the range, thats 60 miles both ways. I used to go to the range 4 times a week, that would be 240 miles a week, or 1040 miles a month. That comes out to approx, $180.00 bucks in gas a month.

Nope I don't shoot as much as I used to.

Regarding what ones time is worth, I don't believe that is the question. Its what one wishes to spend his time doing.

To those who think its about what their time is worth, tell us what is the dollar amount you place on 8 hours of sleep a night, or the time spent driving to and from work, or the time eating. I think it cost me $2.00 to walk out and get the mail today. My time is VERY valuable!

[FROGO207]

As a couple of others stated if you have to ask-----especially if you already know how to do it.:confused: Me I do it for the relaxation involved-- the need to concentrate only on the task at hand. Puts other mind clutter out of the present and helps me regain some breathing room.:) Sometimes I go shooting just to empty the brass so I can load it again. Yes I need help----but it's so much fun to do.:D

[Arkansas Paul]

Regarding what ones time is worth, I don't believe that is the question. Its what one wishes to spend his time doing.

This is absolutely legit. It's the placing a dollar amount on time that I find laughable.

[EddieNFL]

If you take time away from whatever earns you money, it is not worthwhile. Otherwise, it is more worthwhile than watching TV or surfing the net.

[918v]

It is cost effective if you have the self-discipline of a sober person.

[JohnM]

If somebody is reloading when they should be working, that is earning their living, then they got a problem, but it isn't reloading.

[wanderinwalker]

If you take time away from whatever earns you money, it is not worthwhile. Otherwise, it is more worthwhile than watching TV or surfing the net.

Exactly! Why do people try to include "billable time" into the reloading equation? Do you include your billable time spent shooting the ammo you made? Watching reruns of "House"? Making dinner?

And reloading and shooting are like riding a bike. It'll come back to you but start going up a hill and you'll realize how rusty you are! Luckily with reloading it's just attention to detail and you'll be back in the swing. Can't help you on the biking up hills thing, other than to just keep doing it... :p

(Yes, my other hobby is riding bicycles. For the love of dog, if counted my hours in the saddle as billable time I'd owe myself a lot of back wages. :scrutiny: )

[jcwit]

If you take time away from whatever earns you money, it is not worthwhile. Otherwise, it is more worthwhile than watching TV or surfing the net.

Retirement! I love it. Started it when I was 58, am now 69, and really enjoying it.

[leadcounsel]

I'd say it's a personal decision and comes down to a few things -

1) Do you enjoy sitting at a table measuring and weighing and operating a press?

2) What's the value of your time worth?

3) How much do you shoot?

For me, as a young busy professional, it makes more sense for me to work and just buy bulk factory ammo. For example, I just bought 1000 rounds of "seconds" 5.56 for $280 out the door. There are some cosmetic issues with the ammo, but otherwise it's fine. That transaction took me a few minutes. If you're not going to count the time making the ammo, then it's only fair to not count the time it cost to earn the money to buy the ammo...

I don't to buy the reloading equipment, store extra gear, spend time researching and ordering components, or designate a reloading room and sit at a table operating a press for hours on end.

Factory ammo gives me satisfactory results at a convenient and affordable price. But I don't buy individual boxes at Wallyworld, I buy bulk online or at gun shows.

Your mileage may vary.

[cfullgraf]

Regarding what ones time is worth, I don't believe that is the question. Its what one wishes to spend his time doing.



That is a good way of putting the value of time spend reloading, or anything else for that matter.

I like reloading. It is recreational time for me plus I save money per round in the process. It is another activity that allows me to work with firearms when I cannot be at the range.

To make reloading more enjoyable, I have a staked out area of the house that is exclusively for my hobbies. The wife has hers. No banishment to a non-climate controlled garage or out building for me. (Besides, my garage is climate controlled and houses my auto and fab shop.)

Another part of making reloading enjoyable is support from the significant other.

If reloading is drudgery, then it will not be enjoyable and you will always want to be doing something else. Only you can decide which way to go.

[Certaindeaf]

You never did say what kind of press it is. Since you have all the ancillary gear and load for pistol and if it's a single stage, were I you, I'd consider splurging $100 for the Lee cast turret. It's quite a bit faster than a SS.

[Kyle M.]

I've loaded .38 super, .40 S&W, .44 Mag, .45 acp, and .45 colt in the past first on a single stage then I switched to a turret press, I saved 60-75% a box on everyone of them. I currently only load .375 H&H and do so on a single stage press it costs me $8.23 to load a box using 270gr. beartooth cast bullets, and $12.15 a box using hornady interlock sp's. This is compared to $55-$80 a box for factory ammo so for me it is definately worth that hour I spend loading 50rds. (I'm very meticulous), but I also have alot of free time.

[tyeo098]

Its time I would just be wasting on the internet anyways.

[CraigC]

My wife's boss in a big shot lawyer who charges $250 an hour... will he save money by spending an hour reloading a box of 38s? No. What is your time worth?
Even then, it depends. I don't charge by the hour but when I'm working, I'm averaging quite a bit more than the lawyer. However, I'm also not working 8-12hrs a day either. So the time I spend handloading, would NOT otherwise be spent working. I don't do it for fun either. For me, handloading has always been a necessary chore. I do it to be able to shoot more and to be able to shoot the loads I want to shoot, that may or may not be available otherwise. Even so, I'd rather be handloading than working and so I have no problem justifying the $14 and 1 hour spent to reload 100rds that I could've bought for $60.

What I can't justify is the time and expense for casting bullets. I'd rather buy them and spend my extra time on other things, like leatherworking.

I also cannot justify reloading .45ACP and .223. Not when I can buy them at a fair price and I don't have to spend any time digging through the grass for my cases. I don't shoot them as much as revolver cartridges I handload anyway.

In the end, it's a decision we all have to weigh and make for ourselves.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

I don't hold at all with worrying about "calculating what you time's worth" as part of the equation as to whether reloading saves money or not ... because if I were NOT in my basement reloading, I'd be engaged in any number of other activities, none of which would result in my making any money. It's a hobby ... it's for my SPARE TIME.

As to the question: "Is it worth it?" YOU BETCHA'! You can make off-the-shelf ammo cheaper and of better quality, you can make ammo for calibers which manufacturers no longer consider "profitable" and don't make anymore, you can WILDCAT ... (of course, that's a REALLY, DEEP, BLACK HOLE).

I'm disabled, a mobility related issue, but I can still shoot and when Winter comes 'round, reloading lets me continue my "gun hobby" into my non-shooting part of the year. My wife loves it ... she know EXACTLY where I am and EXACTLY what I am doing (that's tongue in cheek, but makes a point). Outside of marrying her ... reloading is about the next best thing I can think of that I've taken up.

[Fired]

Is it worth it? To some people, yes. It really depends on the person, if he/she likes it or not. Does it save money? Technically yes. I can load 1k 223 for about $150, sometimes even cheaper.

[Certaindeaf]

The .223 is an interesting example. Yes, you can get some steel blaster ammo for like $5-6 per 20 but shot out of the most accurate rifle in the world, it'll get like 2 MOA. Reload and it's like falling off a log getting much better accuracy than that for very reasonable cost.

Same goes for the lowly 9mm. "Oh, I don't reload that because it's so cheap".
Go down to the store and price some +P or +P+ defense ammo. With a grain (just an example) more of powder and using a good HP, that "cheap" reload will equal or exceed that $1-2 per shot boutique ammo in performance.

[GLOOB]

At even 100 rds a month of just 357, I'd say it's worth it. Factory 357 ammo is upwards of $30.00 a box of 50, around here. That's perhaps $600.00 for 1000 rds, which would represent a ten month supply.

Cast bullets at $70.00 per 1k plus $7.00 shipping = $77.00
primers $30.00 per 1k at your LGS
powder = 1 pound of Unique at $20.00 at your LGS
Total cost is just $127.00 for 1000 rds.

For jacketed, add another $50.00 or so.

You can buy everything you need to reload 357 for under $300.00. So you could save money inside of a year, very easily. But more likely you get carried away and end up with more components, dies, and equipment rather than cash in your pocket. It's easy to get carried away. But even if you don't like it, you will get to try it basically for free, after you make that first 1k bullets, which you can do in one or two weekends of free time.

What I can't justify is the time and expense for casting bullets. I'd rather buy them and spend my extra time on other things, like leatherworking. Have you ever tried it? Time: casting bullets is very fast. Tumble lubing is very fast. Sizing, typically optional, most of the time. Expense: the initial investment is very small. A Lee bullet mold is only $20.00, and beyond that all you need is something to melt and pour the lead; that's another 40-70 bucks to get a nice setup, if you don't have already have the cookware to spare. And then, even if you buy ingots delivered to your door, you can cut your bullet cost in half for common calibers. By several fold, if you have a less common caliber. So don't even worry about scrounging lead; that's just a big fat bonus if you can get free lead. For your time and money, casting is easily the most rewarding part of reloading. It's so easy, a monkey could do it.

[cfullgraf]

Retirement! I love it. Started it when I was 58, am now 69, and really enjoying it.

Right, now that I am retired, I keep wondering when I had time to work.:)

[cfullgraf]

I also cannot justify reloading .45ACP and .223. Not when I can buy them at a fair price and I don't have to spend any time digging through the grass for my cases.

What works for each is fine.

This is what works for me.

Since I reload, I keep a lot more supplies on hand than loaded ammunition. Most of the powders I use work in several different cartridges that I load. Same for primers and to some extent bullets.

Cases are the only component that is unique for a particular cartridge. Since cases are reusable I do carefully police my brass using drop cloths and brass catchers as aids. I also have an inventory of new cases on hand, some purchased new as long ago as 1980!

So, if I am running low on a particular cartridge, I restock my inventory. I may be shooting more of one cartridge at a particular time than another so I do not have lots of cash tied up in ammunition that I currently am not shooting. I can make what I need at the moment.

This flexibility insulates me from the whims of the market place when shortages occur. Frequently, components or alternate components can be more easily obtained, although maybe at a price, during shortages than factory ammunition.

[ATLDave]

If you enjoy it, it's worth it. If you don't, it isn't.

Interesting that the OP quit because he was too busy. I have taken up the hobby in part because, unlike actual shooting or golf or playing music or most of my other hobbies, I can do it for 30 minutes after I put my daughter to bed. It can fit in between all the other stuff in my life and doesn't require big, hard-to-come-by chunks of time. Loading 500 rounds is time-consuming. Loading 10 is not if you leave the press set up.

[silicosys4]

I find it to be worth it. I don't spend 24 hours a day working, I spend 8 hours a day working. When I want to work more, I work more, and earn more. When I don't need to work more, I spend my time doing things I enjoy, one of which is reloading. I get just as much satisfaction, if not more, from reloading as I do from shooting. I find some small comfort in knowing that if the worldwide ammo supply dried up tomorrow, I am in no great pickle.

[jmr40]

I handload for most of my centerfire rifles, 308, 30-06 etc. Not that I save all that much money, but for much improved velocity and accuracy. To do it right is time cosuming and good bullets aren't cheap. I do save some money, but when I factor in my time, not much.

I can buy 223, and 9mm ammo cheap enough that it is not worth my time. I do pick up my brass and sell it, which gets the cost of buying in bulk not much more expensve than reloading it. If I handgun hunted or shot at long range targets where I wanted to customize loads for accuracy and performance I'd probably do it, but for punching paper at 10-15 yards any old cheap loads work just fine.

I also shoot a lot of 22 to keep costs down.

[Certaindeaf]

Some people shoot box to box and some people live paycheck to paycheck. Kinda like the chicken and the egg? It's nice to have a little something squirreled away, at least when it comes to ammo/fixins.

[readyeddy]

This is a no brainer. You have both the equipment and experience to start reloading again immediately. All you need are the components and you will save at least 50% on your ammo cost. Time is a non-issue in this case. You either have the spare time to reload or you don't, and you say you have it.

[CraigC]

Have you ever tried it?
No and I have no plans or desire to. I understand that some folks enjoy handloading and casting and that is fine. I wish I did but I don't. At this point, spare time is at a premium and like I said, I'd rather use it in other ways.


Since cases are reusable I do carefully police my brass using drop cloths and brass catchers as aids.
I shoot on my own property, not at a "range" so keeping up with brass for guns I hardly shoot hardly seems worthwhile.

[Sniper66]

Loading is a good hobby for me...you have to decide if you want a hobby. I load only rifle ammo to shoot p-dogs and for occasional range shooting. I do save some money if I add up the per-round amount, but mostly it is an engaging hobby and enables me to shoot more. If I did not shoot a lot, I would not reload. Certain rounds, like my 22 Hornet and .204, loading is a good deal cheaper than factory, but .223 not so much. My rifle ammo loads are also more accurate than factory.

[GLOOB]

No and I have no plans or desire to. I understand that some folks enjoy handloading and casting and that is fine. I wish I did but I don't.
I was just curious. From what you might hear, some people make it sound complicated and labor intensive. Sure, you need to work up a load differently. And you could come across leading problems. But if you already reload with commercial cast bullets, you have already faced the same problems. The actual casting/lubing part is very easy and requires very little additional space and equipment.

I don't enjoy reloading, either. Casting is one of the least tiresome parts, and in the right calibers, it is one of the most financially rewarding. Casting bullets is probably as time intensive as trimming cases, unless you have a Girouard, and it is much less like work. When you hear people cast a year's worth of bullets at a time, it's not cuz it's a pain to do. It's cuz once you start, you can easily churn out that many before becoming bored.

[CraigC]

It takes time and right now that's one chore I'd rather pay somebody else to do. Like I said, I don't find any enjoyment in reloading and I know I wouldn't find any in casting. Reloading saves me a lot of money and allows me to shoot loads I otherwise couldn't, for varying reasons. Casting would save me very little, if any, and take up time I'd rather spend on something else. Like I said, some folks enjoy it and that's great. I don't.

What I do enjoy doing is leatherwork and I'd much rather spend my spare time doing that than casting. Or shooting.

[GLOOB]

Totally understand. I'm just saying that if you value your time and just want to save money, you might be better paying someone to do the chores of making complete ammo (buying factory ammo) in some calibers, but in others it might make sense to cast bullets, especially if you do not like reloading! Cuz it will save you so much more money for your time spent reloading. It depends on what you shoot. If it isn't worth it for you, then that's that.

People might assume that casters are being cheap and trying to work the skin off their fingers to save the last penny. But in some calibers, it's the biggest reward on the table (for the time and effort), and one that's very easy to tap. If you dismiss casting as a tedium born by extremists, then you might be reaching for the slim pickings while the ripe fruit is hanging right in front of your nose.

[James2]

Not much to add to this discussion except to add my YES!

[Remllez]

Thanks for all the responses guys.....food for thought! The Rock Chucker has quite a few miles on it but still works like a top, he did buy a Lee 4 turret and likes it, but I'd rather prime off the press.

Heck I'll give it a whirl, if it don't float my boat I'm not out anything. Probably just load .357 at first. I buy Fiocchi 115 grain 9's on sale at Sportsmans Guide when they have sales and like the ammo.

Again thanks for all the responses.

[cfullgraf]

No and I have no plans or desire to. I understand that some folks enjoy handloading and casting and that is fine. I wish I did but I don't. At this point, spare time is at a premium and like I said, I'd rather use it in other ways.



I shoot on my own property, not at a "range" so keeping up with brass for guns I hardly shoot hardly seems worthwhile.

I understand. I used to do all my own auto repairs, now i repair my cars with my check book, even some of the more major repairs to the race car.

Gives me more time for reloading.:)

I also shoot at home, but cases are too valuable to leave on the ground especially the ones I do not shoot much of. They tend to be the more expensive cases and harder to find new, empty cases or factory ammunition.

Plus I shoot a couple wildcats or obsolete cartridges. The factory for those cases is in my reloading room. I enjoy forming cases to a point.

[cfullgraf]

[QUOTE=Remllez;8466199] but I'd rather prime off the press.
/QUOTE]

Is there any other way to prime?

If properly cared for, the Rock Chucker will last forever.

[stavman11]

Just buy a lb or so of Powder... Some lead and Primers... Maybe $100


and try it out.........

I sure like playing with mine.... gunna prep a few hundred .223 brass tonight.....

I just enjoy the time with my gear... from Loading.... Cleaning... Shooting.... Figuring out new Games to Play in the Desert when shooting



Worst case ya waste some time and $100.... But I think youll like it just like ya did back in 1976



..............

[Steel Horse Rider]

First of all I enjoy the time spent reloading as it is very relaxing to me. Second, if you have oddball rifles like me such as 7.35 Carcano, 6.5 Jap, 7.7 Jap, 6.5 Swedish Mauser, 8mm Mauser, .303 British, along with several others reloading does save you money vs buying cartridges when you can find them.

[BearGriz]

I read some of the responses from reloaders here on THR (in all of the forums) and they make me laugh. I don't think there are many religious people out there that are more zealous and evangelical than some of you who reload.

I'm glad many of you have found a hobby that benefits you, seriously I am. But I do tire of constantly reading that I absolutely have to start reloading!!! At this point in my life, I'd rather pay a company/factory worker to do it for me.

And yes, I think it is perfectly valid to question what my time is worth (isn't that part of what the OP was asking?). If I (at this point in my life) view reloading more as work than as a fun pastime, of course I can compare reloading time to time spent on other work that I perform.

[Arkansas Paul]

And yes, I think it is perfectly valid to question what my time is worth (isn't that part of what the OP was asking?). If I (at this point in my life) view reloading more as work than as a fun pastime, of course I can compare reloading time to time spent on other work that I perform.

I think we all agree from a standpoint of what you would prefer to spend your time doing. The point we usually try to make is that you can't say, "Well I loaded for an hour today, so I have to add an hours wages to my cost for loading."
This is silly. Some people act like they get paid every second of every day.
That's what most of us are saying.
If you would rather be doing something else, by all means do that. It's a perfectly legit part of it from that point of view.
And handloading certainly isn't for everyone.

[Certaindeaf]

I read some of the responses from reloaders here on THR (in all of the forums) and they make me laugh. I don't think there are many religious people out there that are more zealous and evangelical than some of you who reload.

I'm glad many of you have found a hobby that benefits you, seriously I am. But I do tire of constantly reading that I absolutely have to start reloading!!! At this point in my life, I'd rather pay a company/factory worker to do it for me.

And yes, I think it is perfectly valid to question what my time is worth (isn't that part of what the OP was asking?). If I (at this point in my life) view reloading more as work than as a fun pastime, of course I can compare reloading time to time spent on other work that I perform.
For the price of a set of dies, about $25, one becomes essentially independent/able to craft an item that may well prove extremely valuable under some circumstances. You are not nor ever will you be assured of being able to stroll up to your Malwart and laying hands upon your preciouses. It's not about money at all.

[CraigC]

I'm glad many of you have found a hobby that benefits you, seriously I am. But I do tire of constantly reading that I absolutely have to start reloading!!! At this point in my life, I'd rather pay a company/factory worker to do it for me.
For most people, even those who make $354/hr and don't enjoy handloading, if you want to do much shooting, it is pretty much mandatory. It also depends on your level of commitment. Some folks are fine with blasting a couple boxes of 9mm or .22LR at the range once a month. Others are not satisfied unless they're trying to find the best load for their 100yr old Westley-Richards .450/.400 or their .300Sherwood rook rifle. Most are somewhere in-between. For me, I am trying to master the single action revolver and there is no way I'd do as much shooting as I do if I did not handload. There might be some discussion if all you have is a Glock 17 but when you have a few dozen revolvers and factory ammo costs $30 or more a box, handloading is the only answer.

So the question is, how much shooting do you do?

[GLOOB]

Of course, if you were really rich, you'd probably buy a Camdex ammo factory and hire someone to run it. :)

[Certaindeaf]

And have Jeeves do all your shooting for you.

[HOWARD J]

I started reloading about 40 years ago----we had bullet eaters like our USI & some others the kids liked to shoot all day----it saved me a lot of money over buying factory ammo.
Today it is just a hobby I enjoy---no need to rush anymore---the Dillons are silent.

[Magnum Shooter]

I consider reloading to be my physiotherapy, it relaxes me and the cost of my time is a lot less than paying a therapist. There is no greater sense of accomplishment than when you are out scoring a factory ammo shooter at the range with ammo you made yourself. Even if the ammo cost more it would be worth it, but it cost less, thus allowing you to shoot more and become an even better marksmen.

[guyfromohio]

This discussion comes at a great time for me as I'm considering starting. I have plans and $$ to get something shooting related next month.... about $1000. Initially, I was thinking if a 1911 or a benelli M2. But a friend is talking me into a Dillon 650. By the time I load my first 9mm (9 and 223) are my most used rounds), I'll have an easy $1200 invested. I could by just short of 6000 rounds of either calibre by that point..... today. But will I be able to get $9 boxes of 9mm a year from now? Does this allow me to stock up on defensive ammo instead of 115gr ball? I think I'm sold on reloading. I'm sure I don't need a $600 progressive for my first run at reloading, but it's probably what I'll do. To the OP .... you have the stuff, go for it!

[Rod4277]

I’m getting back into reloading after about 20 years too. I never stopped getting Handloader Annual and have about 30 years of issues too. I’m not getting back into it for the economics. Instead it is almost a necessity if you shooting “wildcat” calibers or loading specialized loads for a custom rifle.

I do have a question for all you guys getting back into it. When I moved to Florida from PA about 15 years ago I carefully packed up all my reloading equipment and supplies. They have been stored in a dry attic all these years.

I unpacked and set up my new reloading bench last weekend. I was delighted to find everything in good condition. When I inventoried my supplies I was also delighted at the amount of reloading supplies I have on hand. My concern is with the storage of the gunpowder and primers in less than ideal conditions. Can any of you guys shed some light on this?

[Rod4277]

I’m getting back into reloading after about 20 years too. I never stopped getting Handloader Annual and have about 30 years of issues too. I’m not getting back into it for the economics. Instead it is almost a necessity if you shooting “wildcat” calibers or loading specialized loads for a custom rifle.

I do have a question for all you guys getting back into it. When I moved to Florida from PA about 15 years ago I carefully packed up all my reloading equipment and supplies. They have been stored in a dry attic all these years.

I unpacked and set up my new reloading bench last weekend. I was delighted to find everything in good condition. When I inventoried my supplies I was also delighted at the amount of reloading supplies I have on hand. My concern is with the storage of the gunpowder and primers in less than ideal conditions. Can any of you guys shed some light on this?

[45Frank]

If you're loading strictly to save money, then I can see this being a valid argument. For most though, loading is a hobby within itself. I don't calculate my time when I go play golf, or fish, so why would I with a different hobby?
That attorney who bills at $250/hr, doesn't calculate his time when he's on the golf course or at home sipping scotch and smoking a cigar. Though he prolly does bill time on the golf course from time to time. :)
As far as saving money, I sure haven't. I pay less per round, no doubt, but I spend 3x what I used to. Sounds like our situations may be a little different though.
I was beginning to think I was the only one thinking this way. You do save money and I like going into my little room and not being bothered.

[jcwit]

I unpacked and set up my new reloading bench last weekend. I was delighted to find everything in good condition. When I inventoried my supplies I was also delighted at the amount of reloading supplies I have on hand. My concern is with the storage of the gunpowder and primers in less than ideal conditions. Can any of you guys shed some light on this?



]Primers? No problem at all.

Powder? If it smells like solvent or ether its good to go. If it smell acidy, dump it. If it has a red vapor, dump it.

[7thGenAustinite]

yes...

[RustyFN]

Depends.

It is cheaper than buying ammo, but what is your time worth? My wife's boss in a big shot lawyer who charges $250 an hour... will he save money by spending an hour reloading a box of 38s? No. What is your time worth?

Some calibers require loading your own, like the 38 S&W for example. hard to find and pricey when you do. I have a couple of rifles in obsolete calibers so no factory fodder is even available. I have one wildcat caliber rifle and that's the same situation.

Loading your own is sometimes economically logical. Required for some calibers, and advisable for others where high performance factory ammo is not available.

That doesn't make any sence. If he is sitting home he is making nothing. If he can load a box of ammo for $10 that normally cost $20 then he saved $10, it doesn't matter how much he makes while he is working.

If you want to talk about what your time is worth then look at it this way. To buy decent 45 auto factory ammo you are looking at around $450 per 1,000 rounds. I load them In my FREE TIME, the hours in the day I am not at my job. In seven hours I can cast and size 1,000 bullets and load 1,000 rounds with those bullets . I can load that 1,000 rounds for $25. So I got paid $60 an hour to cast and load my own 1,000 rounds instead of making nothing to sit around and watch TV.

[CraigC]

That doesn't make any sence. If he is sitting home he is making nothing. If he can load a box of ammo for $10 that normally cost $20 then he saved $10, it doesn't matter how much he makes while he is working.
Exactly! If you're not taking off from work, losing billable hours to do your handloading, then you really can't factor in your hourly rate at your job. At least, not like that.


I can load that 1,000 rounds for $25.
How does that work? What are you paying for powder, primers and lube? I assume your lead is free.

[jcwit]

How does that work? What are you paying for powder, primers and lube? I assume your lead is free.


I can beat that. How bout $16 for 1000 45 ACP's.

Powder-------Less than $10.00 per lb.
Primers-------$45 for a sleeve of 5,000
Lead---------Free---Got a couple of tons of it.
Cases--------Free---Heck I'll never get around to reloading all of them.
Lube---------Pretty much free Candles, Bees Wax from an Amish beekeeper, and some old carnuba car wax

BTW, No leading with this mix

[Onward Allusion]

It depends on what you're reloading. I shoot 9mm and 22LR 90%+ of the time. It would not be worth it for me from a cost perspective and it still would not be worth it even if I wanted to customize 9mm loads because of the availability of ammo out there. If I shot more 38/357, it would be worth it. No chasing down cases and wider range to work with on 357 loads.

[cfullgraf]

That doesn't make any sence. If he is sitting home he is making nothing.

.

I agree.

But there are workaholic clowns out there that are scheming to make money during every minute of the day. They probably trade the stocks while using the WC and every golf round is a business meeting.

To those folks, reloading and just about every other pastime is a waste of time. No money in it.

[jcwit]

It depends on what you're reloading. I shoot 9mm and 22LR 90%+ of the time. It would not be worth it for me from a cost perspective and it still would not be worth it even if I wanted to customize 9mm loads because of the availability of ammo out there. If I shot more 38/357, it would be worth it. No chasing down cases and wider range to work with on 357 loads.


I just checked Ammo Seek and the cheapest 9mm ammo was $8.95 a box, thats 18 cests a round. I just posted above I can reload 45 acp for .016 cents per round. If I was buying components at todays pricing it would still only come out to 11 cents per round.

Ya it saves money!

[RustyFN]

How does that work? What are you paying for powder, primers and lube? I assume your lead is free.

I buy in bulk. I have primers that cost $15 per 1,000 including hazmat and shipping and powder that cost $12 per pound including hazmat and shipping I buy 50,000 primers and 48 pounds of powder at a time and they will last for a few years. I am sitting on around 1,600 pounds of free wheel weights. The bullet lube I use is Carnauba Red and I bought 20 sticks at $1.49 a stick.

Some ways to save is to spend $30 on a C&R license and get dealer pricing at a lot of places. One example is I can buy Tula primers with my C&R for $87 for 5,000 small pistol primers. Can also buy a lot of different powders for $112 to $120 for eight pound bottles. Max out a hazmat order and the prices don't change much. That was just checking one of the places I order from and ne sale going on.

[GLOOB]

Most people who make $300/hr are paying for an office and office staff. And theyre presimably doing some kind of critical thinking and problem solving that requires a certain level of effort.

When u reload in your office and pay your receptionist $25/hr and benefits to pick up primers off the floor and youre not answering phone calls that could be worth 300/hr, you can start comparing your time spent reloading to your job.

Likewise lemme know when u can make $300/hr in your home in your underwear by pulling a lever. Without breakingany laws or dealing with customers or cclients..

[leadcounsel]

Problem with reloading is that you aren't entirely out of the commercial maze, meaning as much as you'd like to be independent, you aren't. You still rely on mail order or gun shows for primers, brass, powder and lead or bullets. And shopping for those things is time spent that reloaders rarely calculate into their costs (yes, time is money no matter how you slice it).

I've done the math several times, and am not convinced it's more economical to reload. It just isn't if you are honest about the time it takes to set up a room for reloading, order your reloader, and all of your components, research the heck out of it, and order and re-order and stock all of your components, save brass, clean brass, etc etc etc...

And, throw in a half-dozen calibers, dies, etc. and reloaders are needing spreadsheets to keep track of it all.

Meanwhile, I can (and do) stock thousands of rounds of ammo that took only my time to earn the wage, and a few clicks online and it appeared at my door. I just watch for really good sales and then buy cheap and stack deep...

I'm not a precision shooter or a precision reloader. But I have plenty of time for other hobbies and interests...

[Certaindeaf]

I grow a big garden every year for the fun of it. It's pretty expensive any way you cut it.
I give most all of it away.

[Jorg]

Pay attention, reloaders. leadcounsel will not relent until you agree with him that no matter what you do, you aren't saving a dime! Not one red cent!

I'm still not exactly clear howfor you it is "few clicks online and it appeared at my door" but for reloaders "shopping for those things is time spent that reloaders rarely calculate into their costs (yes, time is money no matter how you slice it)." You do realize that most folks can order reloading stuff online in a few clicks or just walk into a store and walk out with a few thousand primers and a couple of jugs of in a matter of minutes, right?

Let's break down a couple of these arduous tasks reloaders face:
set up a room for reloading: Do you mean mounting a press to a bench and setting up some shelves to hold things? One time commitment of an hour or so. Sure, there will be tweaks and changes, but we're aren't talking hours and hours a month.
order your reloader: About as long as it takes to order anything else online or buy in a store. Again, one time.
all of your components: Same as buying ammo, although you don't need to do it as often if you buy in bulk.
research the heck out of it: A few hours of reading initially hardly breaks the bank.
order and re-order and stock all of your components: I'm not sure how this is different than the previous ordering of components, I suppose you just needed to make the list longer.
save brass: Used brass is pretty easy to come by.
clean brass: You don't have to watch the tumbler for it to work.

[leadcounsel]

Sorry I guess I'm not entitled to an opinion. No need for the personal attack Jorg. Jorg, the difference is formulas and components vs. completed ammo.

100 primers and zero powder = no ammo.

I'm certain there are reloaders here who have run out of something and been stuck unable to make ammo.

Look, I really don't have a dog in the fight as to whether folks make ammo or not. If you enjoy it, awesome. But to tirelessly read that time does not equal money is just nonsense.

The time I'm sitting on my computer, I could be earning money, repairing the house, fixing the car, etc... all things that cost or save money depending on whether you do or don't do it... or hire someone to do it.

Time = money is a fundamental economic formula.

[Certaindeaf]

One Christmas my Grandmother gave me a sweater she had knitted. I told her she shouldn't have bothered 'cause they make them in China for like two bits. That crazy old bat.































just kidding

[jcwit]

Time = money is a fundamental economic formula.

At my age that formula holds no water.

[Reloadron]

Leadcounsel:
I'm not a precision shooter or a precision reloader. But I have plenty of time for other hobbies and interests...

My main reason for reloading is I want accurate ammunition tuned to the rifle I am shooting it in. I can buy for example the better Federal Gold Medal .308 using their Sierra 168 grain match king bullets and get reasonably good results in my M1A, that same ammunition does not fare as well in either my match bolt gun or my match AR 10. I can manufacture ammunition that will deliver excellent results tuning my loads for any of those three rifles.

I don't load my own to save money as some of what I load per round exceeds what the Federal Gold Medal stuff cost me. For me, the time spent loading and tinkering with loads is time well spent and I still find time for other things I enjoy. For me rolling my own is just part of the overall shooting experience which I enjoy all of.

People roll their own for numerous reasons and the decision to do so while practical for some may not be practical or enjoyable for others. Personal choice for what it is worth.

Ron

[cfullgraf]

Time does not equal money.

Time does have value.

Everybody values their time differently.

Everybody expends their time differently.

[JohnM]

Sheese!

[Onward Allusion]

jcwit
I just checked Ammo Seek and the cheapest 9mm ammo was $8.95 a box, thats 18 cests a round. I just posted above I can reload 45 acp for .016 cents per round. If I was buying components at todays pricing it would still only come out to 11 cents per round.
Ya it saves money!

I know, but I am also considering other factors as part of the cost...like kids soccer games, quality time with the wife, work, veg time...etc...etc... For me, 9mm would have to triple in price - $30/box of 50 before I would reload. If I were more of a rifle shooter (which I may be soon...) I would definitely consider reloading just for the tuning aspects.

[plodder]

Of Course! Reload when it is dark, shoot when it is daylight!

[RustyFN]

I'm not a precision shooter or a precision reloader. But I have plenty of time for other hobbies and interests...

If time is money how much are you losing on your other hobbies and what makes them worth it?

[1SOW]

leadcounsel, JMO: Reloading seldom saves money.

People who don't have a limitless budget and who enjoy shooting as a hobby can do a lot more shooting if they reload.

Many people that reload find reloading to also be an enjoyable & satisfying pastime. Like any hobby (golf, fishing, whatever), shooting is more satisfying when you do it successfully. Reloading ammunition specifically for your guns and your uses for them, helps make shooting more successful. That may mean more accurate or faster or both for what you like to shoot. A win-win situation.

If you don't want to shoot more and can easily afford what you shoot now, your thinking is very logical.

Onward Allusion : I also absolutely agree with you about budgeting your time with family and providing for them as a priority. Hobbies take a back seat to them.
You might be surprised how many old guys load and shoot--a lot. They/we no longer have as much responsibilty in that area.

This whole topic is actually a little silly. If you enjoy a hobby (or two or three), have the time and money for it/them, then by all means go for it. If you don't, then do whatever turns your crank., even if it's "Time=Money".

What is expressed by reloader-shooters is enthusiasm for the enjoyment and satisfaction it can provide.

[CraigC]

I've done the math several times, and am not convinced it's more economical to reload.
Something is wrong with your math.


Sorry I guess I'm not entitled to an opinion.
I reckon everybody is "entitled" to an opinion, no matter how uneducated it is.

[Jorg]

Sorry I guess I'm not entitled to an opinion.
You are certainly entitled to an opinion, but when you are claiming that reloaders aren't being honest about things, you definitely should be able to back up those statements with facts.

Perhaps you can post the math and lets see how it lines up with people experience.

[blarby]

I've done the math several times, and am not convinced it's more economical to reload

Well I have, and I'm convinced it is.

I simply cant buy rifle ammunition in the quality I make it.

I cant buy pistol ammunition at anywhere near what it costs me to make it myself, and thats using a single stage press.

Its very simple : it either is, or is not, worth it to you.

If it isn't, dont do it.

If it is, keep doing it.

The day I can walk into wally world, and pick up a pack of 20 cartridges that puts a 4 shot group together like the one shown below- I will sell all of my reloading equipment here, and be done with it.

I believe completely that its worth it.

When you find a box of shells off the shelf that shoots groups like this, lemme know.

[cfullgraf]

The value of time at the reloading bench is a constant source of debate during all the "is reloading worth it" threads.

It seems that the folks who do not want to reload, justify themselves in part because they add in some hourly rate for their time. Some folks even add in the depreciation of the their reloading gear.

Folks who like to reload say the time is recreational anyway and costs no money. The equipment is merely a cost of enjoying the hobby, like a fishing boat, set of golf clubs, a swim club membership, or NFL Sunday ticket on DirecTV, etc.

As said by many, it comes down to how you value your time and being honest about it will win more points on both side of the debate than flat out statements that the other side is wrong for such and such reason.

Yes, a home reloader could never compete with commercial loaders because he could not recoup the value of his time spent.

Yes, reloading involves some expenditure of time and capital that some shooters are not willing to invest.

Yes, a home reloader saves money over most commercial ammunition because the sum of components cost less than than factory ammunition.

Yes, the home reloader can make better ammunition than the bargain priced surplus/"former comm block" stuff at a competitive price.

Opinions matter and count but remember to add that "this is the method that works for me" (or something similar) and realize that others will disagree.

The idea is to point out alternatives to those sitting on the fence wishing to be educated. Then they can make an educated decision.

I used to do all my own car repairs including major repairs such as clutch replacements and engine overhauls. My repairs cost less out of pocket and were better than I could pay for at some mechanic's shop. Now a days, i do not care to spend the time so I repair my cars with my check book.

Do I fault the guy who repairs his own cars? NO.

Do i accept that it costs me more out of pocket money to have my cars repairs? YES.

It is all how i value my time. It is the same with reloading.

[cpileri]

If I can add to the custom-ammo thought:
SOmetimes i "save" money; sometimes i get non-monetary benefits.

Once, i wanted some 8mm Mauser loaded w barnes TSX bullets to hunt with. At the time, the Vortex ammo line was not available and I found a manufacturer that would do it for abt $80 plus shipping for 20 rounds. For that price, I bought new brass, dies and bullets annd loaded them myself. Annd i can make more later.

On the non-money side: i wanted to get some new female shooters engaged in the sport, kids around 10-12 years old. they all wanted to try a 12ga shotgun. Hmm... Federal came out with those pink plastic shells for breast cancer awareness so i shot a few and reloaded the pink shells with powder-puff loads. Now I had a nice pink shell i could tempt them with. They LOVED it and actually using my equipment reloaded the shell themselves and wrote their name on it with a sharpie marker.

You cant put a value on that!

C-

[Onward Allusion]

1SOW
<SNIP>This whole topic is actually a little silly. If you enjoy a hobby (or two or three), have the time and money for it/them, then by all means go for it. If you don't, then do whatever turns your crank., even if it's "Time=Money".

I would have to agree. It is a hobby (reloading) and should be "to each their own". I think each die hard reloader or non-reloader can and will provide justifications until the cows come home.

[jmorris]

If your goal is to save money, sell all or your centerfire guns and just shoot .22's.

If you want to shoot more centerfire than you have been for the same amount of cash, while doing something with your spare time, it's worth it.

[guyfromohio]

Blarby...... CCI Blazer Aluminum. $8.99/50. How much for the equipment?


173704

[Certaindeaf]

^
That's pretty cheap for .44 magnum.

[hardheart]

Time is money for anyone who earns a wage or is charged a fee based on time - hourly, weekly, etc.

Time is also valuable. Anything that is limited has value. No one is immortal, or can delay any and all deadlines to their convenience.

I believe that it is more a statement that if someone reloads only to save money and not because they enjoy the actual act of of reloading, then it becomes a comparison of what else they could be doing with the time spent reloading versus the money saved by reloading. Doing something for financial consideration with no particular enjoyment sounds like work, and not all that enjoyable work. And in the case of reloading, it is physical labor where you are paying all the equipment and consumable costs. Buying factory loaded or components both leaves you with less money than you start with.

With reloading, you exchange your free time for some of that money - so the value consideration is what else can you do with that free time, versus what you can do with the particular amount of money you are saving. Plus you consider the time you have to invest at the beginning to break even on the cost of the reloading equipment.

Either way, the bullet exits the barrel pretty quick, so how long a magazine full of rounds lasts doesn't change and is a pretty small amount of time relative to other things. If you have a predetermined goal of certain rounds fired per range trip, and range trips per year, then the money saved is not going to equal more rounds fired in a year. if you shoot a thousand rounds a year, then you shoot a thousand a year. It could cost you $1000, 500, 250, 100, 50, whatever. You could shoot for fun, for SD practice, hunting practice, for precision, etc.

If your other expenses are well covered by your lifestyle and occupation, then saving money by spending time in front of the reloading bench might really not be worth it.

I haven't started reloading yet, and these are the things I am really thinking about. I do my own auto and home repairs because I am frugal, my dad taught me how, and I like being able to do things. I also research a lot of things to understand the world around me. I have read up on firearms operation and now reloading, so I would like to think I can do it and it would be financially sound. But, the savings are not huge for the amount of shooting I do over a period of time (as opposed to a bigger enthusiast or a competition shooter, who also has other financial considerations)

And it isn't a question of what is your time worth because of what you make per hour. If you are doing this in your off time, then it doesn't affect your wage earning. The question is likely more about how much you value a nickel compared to the 5 minutes you spent saving it when you could have been napping, playing with the dog, or reading.

Time is valuable, and people value it differently.

[CraigC]

I simply cant buy rifle ammunition in the quality I make it.

I cant buy pistol ammunition at anywhere near what it costs me to make it myself, and thats using a single stage press.
Another point to be made is that folks are usually comparing handloads to the absolute cheapest crap they can buy that still goes bang. I'm not a "precision handloader" (whatever that means) and I don't weigh every charge but I guarantee you that my handloads are better than most factory loads and at least on par with the premium stuff. So when comparing prices and "doing the math", I don't compare my handloads to cheap crap. Even if I do, it still adds up to a huge savings.

I shoot a lot of .38Spl, which can be bought cheap but I also shoot a lot of .38-40, .44Spl, .44Mag and .45Colt. Which cannot be bought cheap. An extreme example would be the .38WCF. The cheapest ammo I can buy is Black Hills cowboy stuff, which is $37/50rds and near about useless for anything but plinking. I've never chronographed it but it's listed at 800fps for sixguns and that will probably yield 1000fps in rifles. The old standby Winchester silver box 180gr JSP is a whopping $73 for 50rds!!! I can handload them with 180gr RNFP's for $8/50rds or a 180gr Gold Dot (100x better than the anemic and outdated Winchester factory load which runs 1160fps out of rifles) for $17/50rds. Which makes for 1200fps in revolvers and 1475-1550fps in rifles. Both loads shoot into an inch at 50yds from my Uberti 1873 Deluxe Sporting Rifle.

So how does your math do with a savings of $29 for cast and $56 for premium jacketed loads??? That's for EVERY 50RDS FIRED! That's a big difference and pays for your equipment in a hurry. I highly value my time but I'm sorry, I'm making a VERY comfortable living but could never make enough money to justify spending $73 a box on crappy factory ammo that does not do what I need it to. Not when I can spend an hour rolling my own with better components, to better performance and at a higher level of quality PLUS saving $112 in the process.

I crank out .44Mag on a Dillon 650. The production rate coupled with the high price of loaded ammo makes for a huge savings. I can crank out 400rds in an hour without breaking a sweat. Cheapest crap I can buy is Fiocchi at $32/50rds or Winchester white box at $42/50rds. I load them for the same $8/50rds. So in one hour, I save $96-$136 producing a premium quality load. If we were to compare it to ammo of similar quality, let's look at Buffalo Bore ammo at roughly $80/50rds. Where I would save at least $288/hr.

I'll let 'leadcounsel' watch as I do the math......then let's figure on several hundred rounds a month. Let's say those 400rds last me a month, so I'm spending one hour of my time to save $288 a month. That's 12hrs a year to save $3456. Over the twelve years I've been handloading, which spans back to when I was making $10/hr, that's 144hrs to save $41,472. Bearing in mind that it also entails a whopping single trip to the gun show to stock up on powder and primers and perhaps a couple orders of cast bullets. Not exactly a monumental undertaking.


Blarby...... CCI Blazer Aluminum. $8.99/50. How much for the equipment?
I'd love to know at what magical place one can walk in and buy CCI Blazer at nine bucks per fifty rounds. When I talk prices, I talk every day, current pricing. Not some wildly exaggerated, buy a lottery ticket today, kind of lucky day price.

[JohnM]

Course it ain't.
Just ask some of the experts who've been here.
Ignore the fact they've never reloaded themselves.
Every second of their day seems so valuable I can't imagine how they could even waste any of it to come here and tell us we're wasting ours.

[giggitygiggity]

Yes it is. If you buy in bulk, it will cost you about 1/2 to 3/4 of what it costs for the equivalent factory ammo to include Wolf in most cases.

[cfullgraf]

Time is money for anyone who earns a wage or is charged a fee based on time - hourly, weekly, etc.



I got paid by the year. If it took me more hours to do the same job, my hourly rate went down.

[fehhkk]

For my .223 Remington reloads, total cost per 1000 rounds = $232.75
(8lbs H335 powder at $182 shipped, buying 2000 primers locally at $35.00 + 9.5% tax, and 1000 bullets at $112 shipped)

Federal XM193 1000 rounds bulk = $406 shipped
http://www.luckygunner.com/federal-223-ammo-for-sale-223rem55fmjbtae-1000

Savings = $174.01 (or 43% savings over buying commercial ammo)

My reloading press already paid for itself after 3000 rounds :)

I think that speaks for itself!

[CraigC]

I got paid by the year. If it took me more hours to do the same job, my hourly rate went down.
I get paid by the contract so if it takes longer to do my job, my hourly rate goes down. So the quicker I'm able to get my work done, not only do I make more money per hour worked, I make more time to do things like handloading. ;)

[tding]

Did anyone mention that it is just fun to make things (legal) that go bang?

[BigN]

I'm not sure if dollarwise it's worth it or if it's cheaper but reloading is satisfying and "worth it" in so many more ways than saving money. I just enjoy doing it and experimenting with this bullet or that powder. For me, it has little or nothing to do with money. Besides, when I've perfected accurate loads for a particular caliber I have, I have an excuse to get another rifle to start experimenting with one I don't have :evil:

[ROGER4314]

Being retired, there's plenty of time. I never put my reloading on a financial basis because it's fun! Saying that and doing that are two different things, however so I took steps to make the hobby work for me.

First, a friend came over to help me clean out my spare bedroom. Then came the reloading bench with two Dillon RL550 presses and numerous caliber conversions. Cartridges that aren't set up for the 550 presses are done on an RCBS Rock Chucker.

Now, reloading is done in a climate controlled, well lighted and spacious room. I have a stereo in there and put on Classical music as I work. I reload while seated in a huge, comfortable, leather office chair in air conditioned or heated comfort. It's nice and it's a perfect rainy day activity!

I changed my system of ammo storage. I keep 200 rounds of any ammo needed. After a range trip, I load enough to restore that 200 rounds. If I didn't put that limit on my reloading, I'd anchor myself in front of the press and load until the supplies were gone. That's work, not play! I also got away from having large stocks of ammo stored around here.

With the RL550's, one is set up for large primers and one for small primers. Conversion for calibers is very easy with replaceable tool heads.

Recently, I traded for all the equipment needed to get back into bullet casting/sizing. That's fun, too and it doesn't matter one bit how cheaply cast bullets can be purchased elsewhere. It's all for my personal enjoyment.

There's another benefit to reloading. The friend who helped me clear out my back bedroom reloads for 12 gauge shotgun shells. We'll go to the range and bust clay pigeons with him supplying the ammo. Later, we move to the pistol range and I pop for the ammo. It works great!

Flash

[blarby]

@ guy :

Not bad, lemme see it @ 200 yards, not 20 feet, then we can talk :) Those dots on mine are from distance 7mm rifle, not CQ pistol. And shot by my wife, I may add........

I still make 44's for about $7.50/ 100, which is half of your blazer aluminum- about $4 for 45's... The reloading equipment for 45 cost me less than $60, if you include about a 5th of the press cost, which is how many calibers I loaded at the time I started doin 45.

Every second of their day seems so valuable I can't imagine how they could even waste any of it to come here and tell us we're wasting ours. Lolz, another nose/milk moment- love it !

[GLOOB]

Sorry I guess I'm not entitled to an opinion. No need for the personal attack Jorg. Jorg, the difference is formulas and components vs. completed ammo.

100 primers and zero powder = no ammo.

100 9mm and zero 45ACP = no shooting your 1911. And if you wait for the deals and buy in bulk, you can end up with lots of ammo you don't shoot. I have tons of 9x18 factory ammo resulting from a brief infatuation with a particular handgun that just now collects dust.

If you look at the other side of the coin, you can use powders/primer/lead for multiple calibers. Reloading, particularly if you cast, can simplify your time balancing inventory. Heck, even if you run out of lead, you can recast bullets to different calibers if need be. I've been feeding my casting pot with some commercial 45 SWC that don't feed in my Glock, whenever I want to add some flux. Since I started casting and shooting more lead, I no longer worry about stocking any caliber specific things except gas checks for rifles and maybe a box or two of quality jacketed bullets where warranted. Got powder, got primers, and I'm good to go. There's no fear of running out of ammo in any one caliber, even if I'm down to my last bullet. I've discovered most SRP can be used in pistol. And vice versa for light loads. LPP works for low pressure cast rifle loads, too, in a pinch. And there are a lot of flexible powers (Unique, Red Dot, Trailboss, etc) that can get a cast bullet moving out of just about anything, with just about any alloy, with or without gas checks. Even if that great sale price on jacketed ammo/bullets doesn't come around when I need it, I can keep on shooting.

[guyfromohio]

Blarby.... make that 25 feet, not 20. Golly.

And I was teasing as I knew you get my sarcasm. I really do think I'm going to get that press.

[jmorris]

My all time best has been 1000, 230 grain 45 acp rounds for $18.

[blarby]

Oh, I got it alright :) Personally, I think they should outlaw that aluminum stuff like they did lead waterfowl shot. Its a pollutant- no one picks it up.

[jcwit]

Some of these characters must just about have a heart attack if they have a flat tire on the way to work!

I can't imagine getting this worked up over every hour, minute, second of every day. Some folks really need to get a life and stop and smell a rose now and then. If they don't one day they'll wake up and it will be all over and then all you need is 3' x 6' chunk of real estate or a small urn. And no one will care.

[Still Shooting]

I am now 66 years old, and still need to work for a living. That entails (usually) travel to and from clients, and that's about 15hrs each way if the client is on the Left Coast - 8 or so if on the East Coast or in Midwest. For four days a week, I sleep in a hotel somewhere. When I come home, I pay bills, fix what broke at home or on the car, plant and tend the vegetable garden, and SHOOT. I have been into handguns, and out of that - loaded .45ACP, 9mm, .357, and .380. Now I just do rifles.

At night, when everything quiets down at home, I reload. It relaxes me, and I can put aside client crises, project problems, etc., and focus on something that gives me pleasure. I don't dislike reloading; in fact, a good-looking box of .257 Roberts rounds, or a new load for my wife's .243 satisfies a sense of accomplishment. I can go to the range anytime I want between 9AM and sunset, and make holes in paper.

But my real turn-on is extracting the most possible accuracy and reliability out of every centerfire rifle I own, which is now 12 rifles. This includes my Dad's and Granddad's Remington Model 14 in .30 Rem, and my other Granddad's Winchester '07 in .351WSL (both no longer manufactured, except as a custom load). I also load for a .303 Brit.

I have a 6.5x55 Swede (M93), my wife's .243, my .270, and my 7mmWSM all shooting at 1/2moa, and as of day before yesterday my .257 Bob turned in a 1/4moa group (where I had it in the early 1980's). The process is iterative: find the most accurate load for each bullet weight I typically shoot, then tune the rifle (cartridge L.O.A., barrel bedding, action bedding, trigger pull, etc.) with the load to achieve the desired accuracy. It pays off when hunting, and it lets me know at the range when I am shooting well, and when I shoot not-so-well.

I started reloading when I was 16, and while I took a 21 year break when marriage, kids, and career made it impossible to spend the time, I have come back to it and for the past 4 years have enjoyed reloading and shooting more than ever.

Do I save money? -Absolutely, given the range and number of calibers I reload. Do I care? -Not really. I do it for other reasons.

[Kachok]

I load some expensive to shoot and hard to find calibers, plus I enjoy working up loads that shoot far better then any factory ammo I can find (not to mention more powerful), so yes to me handloading really is worth it and then some. If all you want is a big boom on the cheap go buy a Mosin and load up on all the crappy corrosive mil-surp 7.62x54r you can get your hands on, but to me that seems silly. Oh and BTW I make premium grade hunting ammo for about half the cost of el-chepo powerpoints.

[1SOW]

I've done the math several times, and am not convinced it's more economical to reload
One last shot:
I wasn't a math major. Only arithmetic is needed in the reloading hobby.
I have done and continue to do reloading for range,competition pistol shooting and SD loads. When younger and still working, I bought all my ammunition.
You cannot buy my competition loads, I shot whatever was available that I could afford. There were times when ammo was simply not available.

I'm now 66 and only shoot about 250-300 pistol rds/week avg in two sessions/week. The cost is less than 50% of commercial "NON-Junk" ammo.

Commercial SD ammo now costs $1:00 PER SHOT for quality pistol ammo. = fact. Shoot 50rds in practice and the cost is $50 or more. My SD loads using the same quality bulletsand speedsthe commercial companies do, is 27.5 cents per shot. Using arithmetic, That's $13.75 for 50 rds instead of $50 for commercial ammo.

These are "facts" not math.
Does this mean I'm saving money? YES, if my goal is to shoot what I want to shoot.

Of course, I could cut my shooting by 60%, buy commercial ammo and "SAVE MONEY". Since time = money, the time I'll also save would let me work more and make more money. What a great trade-off.

Let's change your math formula TIME=MONEY to WORK = MONEY to BUY TIME for enjoyment and relaxation.
I never did like "THE NEW MATH".

[leadcounsel]

Gosh, by all the handloaders logic here, that time is free, maybe we all should sell our cars.

Heck, a vehicle is the 1st or 2nd largest investment of funds for most folks.

Sell it - no more financing, payments, repair costs, insurance or gas. Just walk to work. It's free! And good exercise.

People are demonizing me because they refuse to acknowledge that they aren't "saving" the money they think they are. Just admit it. Most folks could realistically benefit financially from stepping away from the reloading press and working a wage earning job more, studying harder on an exam to get a better grade = a better job, looking harder for better/more work, etc. Time does in fact = money.

That's not to say you should stop doing hobbies. We're all gun enthusiasts here. I don't "bill" myself every moment of every day. But when you ignore the simple principle you are missing something. BTW yes I take extreme pleasure in life.

For instance, I snowboard as a hobby. I recognize that it's an expensive hobby. In addition to the equipment and lift ticket and travel expense, there's also the TIME expenses. A day on the slopes costs me a wage - of some sort. It's a day I could have earned or save or something else. It is simple economics. I could be laying hardwood floor, for instance, to improve the value of my home. Another example. I'm working on laying a hardwood floor (I've done several). I have the tools and knowhow and wood. Instead of paying someone $5000 or whatever, I slowly work on it, a few square feet here and there, evenings and weekends. I spent TIME finding some very affordable reclaimed hardwood flooring... and I realize that the hour I spend, there and there, is valuable time that I could be doing other things. But in the long run I get enjoyment from a job well done that I did. But just because I'm doing it myself doesn't make it free. Because I could have done other hobbies or profitable things in that same timeframe.

I digress...

[jcwit]

Gosh, by all the handloaders logic here, that time is free,

69 year old retired veteran on a VA Disability. My time is free. Life is good.

Sell it - no more financing, payments

Buy an auto you can afford, not finance. Last car I financed was my first New Corvette I ordered in 1972. Had it financed for 3 weeks till I sat down and saw what the finance charges came to, I paid it off and have paid cash for every auto since, both new and used.

Wife & I purchased a New Flat Screen yesterday.
Lets see, it took 2 hours approx driving to and from the store, spent one and a half hours deciding which size and model to buy, took approx 2 hours to unpack and hook up.

I'm sure my time is valuable so lets just assume its worth about what I was being paid in my past. Man alive that TV cost an additional $220.00 more than the sticker price. Plus we went out to eat while in the big city, so will have to add another hour and the price of the dinner, another $70.00.

Guess I should have stayed home and reloaded ammo for free!!

[Certaindeaf]

There is such a thing as opportunity cost/lost in any/everything.
Instead of working another job/more hours for the man to pay for expensive factory ammo, one can conversely use the money saved by reloading to invest, one way or another, in something with a decent yield.. this would/can more than make up for working an extra job just to then throw it down a pisshole shooting factory.

[CraigC]

Gosh, by all the handloaders logic here, that time is free...
That's why it's called "free" time. Personally, if my choices are to work more to pay for factory ammo or save that $288/hr loading my own, I'd rather be handloading. If you really think that it's better to work a part time job to pay for factory ammo, rather than loading your own, be my guest.

The difference is you see the time as worth exactly what it would be worth to an employer. You think we place zero value on our time. Fact is, neither is true but I can see that you will not be swayed by facts so carry on. Sorry but your logic is sillier than you think ours is.

Given your logic and how much you value your time, why are you in the HANDLOADING section of a shooting forum telling us all how handloading is a poor investment of our time? You wanna preach about wasting time, why are you even here??? Are you not wasting time that would be better spent working? Maybe it's time for you to educate yourself on the subject and take a long hard look at your own perspective, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Let's get specific, what part of post #110 do you not understand or disagree with???

[CraigC]

A quick search of this sub-forum has yielded at least four years of ignorant, condescending rhetoric from leadcounsel about handloading. Seems you simply troll this forum in search of topics to disrupt. You never get into an in-depth discussion, you never quantify your nonsense and you clearly don't know anything about handloading, buying components, learning the process or even the space it requires. So do us all a favor and find somewhere else to stir the pot. You don't handload so maybe you should follow your own advice and spend the time you waste here working a part time job. :rolleyes:

Unless you want to open your mind and have a real, serious discussion. Or was your mind made up when you bought that pistol and had a "kaboom" with the included handloads???

[Certaindeaf]

I ain't rich, that's for sure, but I'm a fairly mean cook. Sure, I could get an extra job to go out to fancy restaurants every night or eat out at mickyD's, but for about the same money as eating at some bottom tier fast food joint I can craft fare that beats about any place I've been or can go. Yes, it takes some time and consideration but it's enjoyable too. I take pride in it.. and like good food.
Whatever makes you happy.

[Kyle M.]

Gosh, by all the handloaders logic here, that time is free

People are demonizing me because they refuse to acknowledge that they aren't "saving" the money they think they are. Just admit it. Most folks could realistically benefit financially from stepping away from the reloading press and working a wage earning job more, studying harder on an exam to get a better grade = a better job, looking harder for better/more work, etc. Time does in fact = money.

That time is free that is why it is called free time. Time is not money unless you are a greedy money grubbing overtime pig. I work a fixed 40 hour week no one where I work is allowed to work overtime because the company owner sees it as a waste of free time. I am saving a whole lot of money reloading and there is nothing that is going to change that, because I reload in my free time.

[readyeddy]

I charge by the hour and I enjoy hand loading ammo. Spending every waking hour trying to make money is too much effort for me. I need time off and hand loading helps me save money while I decompress from work. I mean, I need the time off anyway, and factory ammo isn't cheap. But if you can work seven days a week, 12 hours a day, taking no vacation time throughout the year, then more power to you. I've worked that schedule for two years straight and I learned that life is way too short.

[Kachok]

Ok assume that I should allow my hourly wage as part of the equation. I make about $12/hr at my job, I can reload rifle ammo at a pace of about 100rd/hr even on my dinky little single stage press. It costs me about $.50 a round ($10 a box) to load the good stuff, if I bought the same bullets in a factory load it costs me $40 a box. Lets do the math.
$40x5=$200
$10x5=$50
$200-$50=$150
So boil it down to $ per hour and I am making $150/hr instead of $12........wish my job paid me that much :D And as a bonus I get superbly accurate ammo custom made to each rifle and getting to take a little pride in my work in the process.

[Kyle M.]

Ok assume that I should allow my hourly wage as part of the equation. I make about $12/hr at my job, I can reload rifle ammo at a pace of about 100rd/hr even on my dinky little single stage press. It costs me about $.50 a round ($10 a box) to load the good stuff, if I bought the same bullets in a factory load it costs me $40 a box. Lets do the math.
$40x5=$200
$10x5=$50
$200-$50=$150
So boil it down to $ per hour and I am making $150/hr instead of $12........wish my job paid me that much :D And as a bonus I get superbly accurate ammo custom made to each rifle and getting to take a little pride in my work in the precess.

I wish mine did too

[Certaindeaf]

The bashers usually point to crap 9mm, .223 etc to make their "case". Pretty sad.

Personally, I love loading for both of those (amongst others, of course) because for way less cost than any ball, I'll have produced something that'll do much more than go "bang".

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm glad you decided to reload again.

Just to mention it, when loading for the .357 Magnum you will probably save ~80% of the cost of buying factory ammo. When loading 500 rounds it will probably only cost you the price of 100 factory rounds in components. When using a the Lee turret press I can safely load between 180 to 200 rounds per hour so in less than 3 hours you can load a months worth of ammo. Not a huge time investment either.

Don't forget the range report...

[jcwit]

Ok assume that I should allow my hourly wage as part of the equation. I make about $12/hr at my job, I can reload rifle ammo at a pace of about 100rd/hr even on my dinky little single stage press. It costs me about $.50 a round ($10 a box) to load the good stuff, if I bought the same bullets in a factory load it costs me $40 a box. Lets do the math.
$40x5=$200
$10x5=$50
$200-$50=$150
So boil it down to $ per hour and I am making $150/hr instead of $12........wish my job paid me that much And as a bonus I get superbly accurate ammo custom made to each rifle and getting to take a little pride in my work in the process.


Hey, you gotta factor in the time spent going to and from the store selling the factory ammo, and the time spent buying it.

Your math is way off. hehehehe

[Gregaw]

Don't forget all the taxes you'd have to pay if earned a wage instead of reloading. LOL I don't see anyone taking that into account. ;)

Yes, I find reloading financially beneficial and satisfying as a 'hobby'. I agree with a previous poster who said that casting bullets is a serious money saver. I haven't gotten into casting yet, but have been considering it.

[blarby]

Hey, you gotta factor in the time spent going to and from the store selling the factory ammo, and the time spent buying it.

Not to mention :


The amortized cost of your vehicle usage for that trip- including all moving parts' accurate wear percentage for that particular trip.
Your fuel costs.
Your insurance costs, per second, from operating the vehicle.
Your taxable rate per mile of state road fuel excise tax.
The wear , per foot traveled, on your footwear.
The depreciation of your clothings' value due to exposure to oxygen and sunlight.
Your carbon footprint, without offsets, expressed in taxable carbon credits for your travel and your oxygen expenditure.
A syntax adjustment fee, for every word spent explaining to the clerk the difference between 9mm pistol cartridges, and 12 ga shotgun shells- and why they aren't interchangeable for your needs.
A fee avoidance fee if you choose to purchase and shoot lead shot instead of steel in any waterfowl areas.
A depreciation of the value of life for sitting in traffic, and being forced to wade through wally world.
An adjustment to your tax base, incrementally adjusted based on the amount of electricity it takes to activate all of the traffic devices along your chosen route of travel.
And, if you live in Jersey- tolls. You will hit at least 47 toll booths between your residence, and the LGS/wallyworld.


I mean, we want a truly accurate accounting right ? Its the little things that kill.......

If you must insist on a truly accurate accounting of the level of costs between the two, I will sick my accountant on it...and you will vomit dollar bills from your tear-ducts in agony trying to get him to shut up in any way possible.

Look, if you want to handload- handload.

If you don't, dont.

This argument gets sillier and sillier every month, and I haven't seen seen anything truly new from either side since the first time I saw it.

Math is math. Time is time. We all have different levels of "tolerance" just like case adjustment dies do- and we'll likely all never see eye to eye.

With that said, trolling this discussion through H&R yet again by a non-loader for kicks is becoming acutely cumbersome and irritating.

I don't come to your place of 24 hour employment and shake the bed- please don't come to our mutual digital bench and try and shake quarters out of it.

It's not gonna happen.

[jaguarxk120]

I've got better things to do, and setting down adding up the cost of reloading is not one of them (waste of time).

Handloading is my hobby and is part of shooting overall.

[Kachok]

Hey, you gotta factor in the time spent going to and from the store selling the factory ammo, and the time spent buying it.

Your math is way off. hehehehe
Nope, mail order in bulk and they usually ship it for free :D OK so factor in the few seconds it take to click a mouse and load a page so $149.99/hr LOL. The only thing I shoot and don't reload for is 22LR.

[GLOOB]

I agree with a previous poster who said that casting bullets is a serious money saver. I haven't gotten into casting yet, but have been considering it.
To further clarify the economics of this, let's pretend you have a turret press and load 200 rds an hour, pistol. 50 rds an hour rifle, including all the brass prep.

I conservatively estimate you cast about 300 cast bullets an hour with a 2 bullet mold. Depends on how long you let your molds cool, and that depends on your mold/bullet/alloy. Now let's consider tumble lubing. It takes practically no time at all to tumble lube them and dump them on a sheet of wax paper to dry. But let's bring your production down a bit for setup, inspection and handling, rejects, and tumble lubing. So let's say you make only 200 an hour, pistol bullets ready to load.

For rifle, let's say you apply gas checks and/or size them. Let's bring your cast bullet production down to 120 an hr. Again, we're being very conservative here. Not trying to emulate a sweat shop. Now to load cast rifle bullets, you have to flare your cases, so let's bring your production down to 100/hr to compensate.

So for pistol, casting bullets might double your time spent on each cartridge. (Again, just using rough examples. If you use a progressive press, it might be much worse; but then you might compensate by buying 6 bullet molds?) If you can save more than twice as much money on your reloaded pistol rds by casting bullets, it will be a perfectly reasonable use of your time. Since the bullet is the most expensive part of a pistol rd, this is easy to do in many of your calibers. Esp in calibers (9mm) where you're hardly saving any money to begin with, it could easily increase your savings by that much compared to using commercial cast lead. The cost of your 124 gr bullets could be around 13 bucks, tops, per 500, vs 35-40 bucks, reducing your total reloading cost by about half after adding in the powder/primers. But your actual SAVINGS on 9mm might be increased 10 fold. Granted, 10x a crappy saving to begin with still isn't all that impressive. But if you're already reloading 9mm for the minimal savings vs factory ammo, despite the cost of your time, then it would still be a good investment to cast bullets for it.

Rifle is where it gets really interesting. If you can increase your savings by just 50% more per rd, you're in the black. Cuz it doesn't take that much longer to add casting to your overall time spent reloading. Ask me if I'd rather make 200 bullets or size/prep 200 cases, and it's easy. I'd rather cast/lube/check 200 bullets. And now I'm making each 7mm-08 cartridge for about 15 cents per, rather than 40 cents per* compared to buying commercial cast bullets. Compare that to the cost for factory jacketed ammo of say 50-75 cents per round, and I'm increasing my savings by 2-3.5 times as much by casting and reloading, vs just reloading with commercial cast bullets. And it's only adding perhaps 50% more to my overall time spent reloading a cartridge.

*My 130 gr rifle bullets cost 3 cents for the lead (that's at a convenience cost of 1.50/lb for ready to cast lead delivered to my door, which is about as expensive as it gets) and 3 cents for the check. That's 6 bucks per hundred, where even commercial cast bullets cost nearly 30 dollars per hundred without shipping (except at gardner's cache, where I'd failed to get an order in for a month before finally giving up and buying my own casting equipment). Add cost of primers and powder, and that's where I get my figures.

Sure, with rifle you're limited to only 2200 fps or so. But then look on the bright side. You are using roughly half the powder charge. And you can even load light plinking loads using non GC'd bullets (with perhaps one quarter a regular rifle charge weight of, say, Unique) that still hit as hard as a 357 magnum. That's at a cost of about 8 cents per rd in this example. 3 cents primer, 2 cents powder, 3 cents boolit. You can't touch that even in calibers where you can buy cheap pulled bullets!

You can argue that casting bullets requires a lot of learning and experimenting. But I think people tend to over complicate this part. Buy some WW ingots; flame mold; lube sprue plate; melt lead; make bullets. Throw rejects back in pot; lube the rest. Once the lead is melted, you will be casting perfectly useable bullets 3 minutes later, even without a how-to guide. Find some tested load info, and load some cartridges.

[TFL]

Check out this site
http://westernsafellc.com/Reloading.xls

[RustyFN]

Gosh, by all the handloaders logic here, that time is free, maybe we all should sell our cars.

Heck, a vehicle is the 1st or 2nd largest investment of funds for most folks.

Sell it - no more financing, payments, repair costs, insurance or gas. Just walk to work. It's free! And good exercise.

People are demonizing me because they refuse to acknowledge that they aren't "saving" the money they think they are. Just admit it. Most folks could realistically benefit financially from stepping away from the reloading press and working a wage earning job more, studying harder on an exam to get a better grade = a better job, looking harder for better/more work, etc. Time does in fact = money.


Some people just don't get it, never did and never will. I have also met some people that should never reload.

[GLOOB]

I think everyone gets it, just fine. But depending on your level of income/skill/ambition, your amount of business/work/social life at the time, and level of enjoyment or lack thereof for reloading, the point of investment/return is different for everyone. Heck, some people (gasp) make a living by casting and/or reloading. There are different levels for different folk.

I earn a very good wage, but my work is very mentally taxing. I honestly couldn't work much more that I do, even if I wanted to. And I don't. Reloading is about as mentally taxing as scratching my butt. (And truth be told, I'm often working on a problem while I'm reloading.)

Then I'm sure there are also plenty of retired/disabled/unemployed folks in this country who can't show an income without making their financial situation worse.

[RustyFN]

I think everyone gets it, just fine. But depending on your level of income/skill/ambition, your amount of business/work/social life at the time, and level of enjoyment or lack thereof for reloading, the point of investment/return is different for everyone.

I earn a very good wage, but my work is very mentally taxing. I honestly couldn't work much more that I do, even if I wanted to. And I don't. Reloading is about as mentally taxing as scratching my butt. (And truth be told, I'm often working on a problem while I'm reloading.)

Then I'm sure there are also plenty of retired/disabled/unemployed folks in this country who can't show an income without making their financial situation worse.

So are you saying you agree with leadcounsel and everybody that reloads has to figure the cost of their time in the price of their reloads and if they don't they are lying?

[hardheart]

People who reload are already figuring the opportunity cost of their time. As has been mentioned, you either spend more of the money you spent time earning to purchase ammo or components, or you spend more of your time creating/assembling components. Either way, acquiring ammo costs time.

[GLOOB]

So are you saying you agree with leadcounsel and everybody that reloads has to figure the cost of their time in the price of their reloads and if they don't they are lying?
Yes, I think he's absolutely right that your time is an opportunity cost. Touting your savings that are calculated from the bare cost of components does not accurately reflect what you're saving. If it did, you would gladly sell me all your hard made reloads for only what it cost you in components plus a penny more. Sound like a good deal?

But I think he's absolutely wrong to equate your time spent reloading to what you earn at your job. Unless your job is, in fact, pulling a lever while in your underwear, anytime of the day or night when the whim strikes you, while not answering to anyone but yourself.

[RustyFN]

Yes, I think he's absolutely right that your time is an opportunity cost. Touting your savings that are calculated from the bare cost of components does not accurately reflect what you're saving. If it did, you would gladly sell me all your hard made reloads for only what it cost you in components plus a penny more. Sound like a good deal?

But I think he's absolutely wrong to equate your time spent reloading to what you earn at your job. Unless your job is, in fact, pulling a lever while in your underwear, anytime of the day or night when the whim strikes you, while not answering to anyone but yourself.


You must have missed something, we are talking about reloading for our self not for others.

I don't get paid to sit here and talk to everybody here just like I'm not losing money by spending time reloading. I have to say I feel honored that you would lose money to take the time to sit here and talk to us, I'm curious how much money are you losing taking the time to sit here and tell us we are wrong not to include our time.

[hardheart]

If I may, I will use underwear as an example of how there is opportunity cost in every decision we make. This is going to be a bit weird.

You can wash your underwear, or you can buy new underwear for every time you change. Washing underwear takes a little detergent, water, time, and some amount of equipment. The detergent can be cheap or expensive, it can be used with bleach, stain remover, fragrances, stain blockers, etc. You can use liquid, powder, both. You can use an automated machine or hand wash. You can use a washboard, your sink, high efficiency models, a vintage machine held in your family for a generation or more, etc. You can use a dryer, clothesline, shower curtain rod, drying rack, or something else. You can spend a lot or a little money to wash underwear. You can spend a lot or a little time doing it. Do you enjoy washing underwear? Do you enjoy wearing clean underwear? Those two answers do not have to be the same, and the answer to one does not determine the answer to the other.

You may not have the money for a washing machine. Maybe you hate putting quarters in at the laundromat. You may be allergic to detergents. Perhaps you are a germophobe. Who knows. Anyway, you may not want to wash your underwear. Depending on the reason, you may just buy new underwear all the time. Maybe you try to buy the cheapest underwear you can for average days. Maybe you stretch your dollar by not changing your underwear as often. Maybe you air it out sometimes. Maybe you reserve your 'premium' underwear of fine silk and colorful prints for occasions where the quality of your underwear is going to matter most. Or maybe you wear the premium undies all the time because you never know when that time will be. You can spend a little on underwear, or you can spend a lot on underwear. Your motivations, what you enjoy about underwear, and your situation will influence this.

Maybe some people go looking through refuse or at thrift shops for underwear because they are comfortable with laundering it and get good results. Maybe some people don't like the idea of working on reusing something when there are cheaper alternatives, even though the cheaper alternatives are not better and they are limiting their options.

How often you go to the range, how much you shoot at the range, why you shoot, how much you like shooting, what calibers you shoot, what type of loads you shoot, what firearms you shoot with, the availability of these rounds on the retail market, the average price, the performance in your firearms, the desired results when pulling the trigger - a whole lot influences your choice to reload while you are on the range. Off the range, the amount of free time you have, the amount of working space you have, the attitudes of those you live with, if any, the disposable income you have, the price of components, the type of reloading equipment you are comfortable with, and plenty more also can affect your choices and actions.

Do you enjoy reloading as much as doing laundry? Do you care about the kind of rounds you shoot or the kind of underwear you have on? If you go commando, then please excuse the entirety of this post.

[Hacker15E]

I can't believe that this discussion has taken this many pages of "yes it is" and "no its not" about if it saves money.

Yes, we know time is money.

Yes there is opportunity cost in reloading.

For lots of folks it is worth their time to spend less money than buying factory ammo (and getting the other associated benefits of loading your own). Every person needs to assess for themselves if it is 'worth it'. For everyone who says 'yes', they're right. For everyone who says 'no', they're also right.

For someone who wants to get into reloading, they have to assess the value of their time and effort.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

[GLOOB]

^ yes, true. We all know what we're talking about. I'm just trying to close the gap between the one extreme and the other. Futile? Maybe. But I enjoy it, so it's worth my time. :)

You must have missed something, we are talking about reloading for our self not for others.
I realize this. But Leadcouncil is right. Even if you load only for yourself, if you sit down and say you save X amount of money every year by reloading as a justification, you're not looking at the whole picture. We can all agree that if you saved 1 cent a year for 10,000 hrs of reloading, that yes. You saved 1 cent. But it wasn't strictly worth the time and effort.... unless it made you happy or otherwise prevented you from losing a lot more money on other things.

I don't get paid to sit here and talk to everybody here just like I'm not losing money by spending time reloading. I have to say I feel honored that you would lose money to take the time to sit here and talk to us, I'm curious how much money are you losing taking the time to sit here and tell us we are wrong not to include our time.
No one says you're losing money by reloading. Just that your time might be better spent. For some people that's true. For others it's not.

If your son plays WOW 80 hrs a week with nothing to show for it, you're not mad because it's costing you 14.95 a month.

[RustyFN]

I realize this. But Leadcouncil is right. Even if you load only for yourself, if you sit down and say you save X amount of money every year by reloading as a justification, you're not looking at the whole picture. We can all agree that if you saved 1 cent a year for 10,000 hrs of reloading, that yes. You saved 1 cent. But it wasn't strictly worth the time and effort.... unless it made you happy or otherwise prevented you from losing a lot more money on other things.

Sorry I just don't see it so I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The way I look at it is I get all of my remodel projects done, I also make a good wage and don't want to work more, my wife and I do everything we want to do together, I still have time to play golf and shoot all I want so I reload in my free time. My free time is the time I would spend on the computer, watching TV or that type of activity. I don't see where getting another job or doing side work to buy factory ammo instead of reloading would be an advantage or figuring what my time is worth to reload instead of watch TV. I would bet it's safe to say you and lead don't figure what your time is worth while you are watching TV.

[GLOOB]

we will have to agree to disagree
No. I agree with you both. It's like like watching two people argue whether the glass is half full or half empty but have no clue they're saying the same thing. :evil:
'

[Larry Ashcraft]

Looks like this has been circling the drain for a while now, with 157 posts.

I'm going to call: "question answered".