Kel-Tec Sub-2k


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primalmu
October 19, 2012, 02:39 PM
Found a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 in 9mm at the LGS today. I was REALLY tempted to put it on layaway until January (leaving MS to head home to WV for a few months). They want $399, which seems like a deal considering they are going for more than that on Gunbroker. Oh, and it also took Glock mags, which would be convenient since I'm planning on picking up a Glock 17 soon.

Decisions, decisions...

:evil:

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Inebriated
October 19, 2012, 02:45 PM
Get it. Of the Sub2k's, the Glock 9mm is the only I'd care for. And for that price, you're right there in Hi Point territory. Plus, you're thinking of a G17... what could possibly force you to NOT buy this?

mberoose
October 19, 2012, 02:54 PM
There's no decision. You're wasting time.

Captains1911
October 19, 2012, 03:16 PM
I found the same model at a LGS two days ago, he wanted $495. I would have taken it had it been the price you see.

*NOVA*
October 19, 2012, 03:22 PM
Get it! They're great for customizing. I added a green laser to mine

murphyreedus
October 19, 2012, 04:43 PM
I stumbled across a nice used G17 version at the LGS last spring - $250 out the door with 10 and 33 round Glock mags. This was the first and only Sub-2k I've ever seen locally. It had just been traded in that day, and was behind the counter and not even out on the sale floor yet. Just dumb luck that I was the first to happen across it, and happened to know what they were going for most other places.

Given their scarcity I don't think $400 is totally out of line, and if you can talk them down 25-50 bucks, even better.

bigfatdave
October 19, 2012, 05:23 PM
just buy it - the only mag configuration better than G17 is the G19 (I lucked into one)

Captains1911
October 19, 2012, 07:44 PM
just buy it - the only mag configuration better than G17 is the G19 (I lucked into one)
how does the grip length of the G19 model compare to that of the G17, is it very noticeable?

bigfatdave
October 20, 2012, 07:11 AM
compare a G17 and G19 mag ... about that much

I don't have the longer version and never bothered to measure the one I have in a quantitative way

meanmrmustard
October 20, 2012, 11:59 AM
Get it. Of the Sub2k's, the Glock 9mm is the only I'd care for. And for that price, you're right there in Hi Point territory. Plus, you're thinking of a G17... what could possibly force you to NOT buy this?
Their spotty reviews, reliability issues with cheaper ammo (if you have to feed it the expensive stuff, why buy it in 9mm to begin with?) the pointless folding feature, and the accuracy being only marginally as good as the Hi Point.

Why I've only owned one, G17 model, never again.

Lateck
October 20, 2012, 04:04 PM
Get it!
I have one each in 9 & 40. They store easily (folding).
I can hit soda cans at 100 yards.... So they are accurate enough.;)

Fun and great easy carry rifles!

Lateck,

Inebriated
October 20, 2012, 04:41 PM
Their spotty reviews, reliability issues with cheaper ammo (if you have to feed it the expensive stuff, why buy it in 9mm to begin with?) the pointless folding feature, and the accuracy being only marginally as good as the Hi Point.

Why I've only owned one, G17 model, never again.

The ones I shot seemed fine, but then again, I didn't own one. I haven't heard many negatives, so I assumed they were GTG. But the opinion of an owner means more than mine.

If only Hi Point would make a Glock magazine model..

BudW
October 20, 2012, 04:44 PM
Went and priced one today total cost 368 here for the 40

bigfatdave
October 20, 2012, 04:49 PM
Their spotty reviews, reliability issues with cheaper ammo (if you have to feed it the expensive stuff, why buy it in 9mm to begin with?) the pointless folding feature, and the accuracy being only marginally as good as the Hi Point.



reviews: any moron with a keyboard can write a bad review when they encounter something they don't understand, while satisfied customers tend to keep to themselves
cheap ammo: mine eats WWB and the cheapo Federal plated plinking stuff, how cheap do you need?
folding: motorcycle saddlebag, backpack, laptop case ... sometimes I don't want to fart around with a rifle case to go to the range. correction I almost never want to screw around with a rifle case going to the range, I'm carrying anough crap without adding in an awkward 26"+ delicate stick
accuracy: mine is decently accurate, although I admit that a better front sight would improve accuracy a great deal
Hi Point: they're surprisingly nice little PCC's, if you like Hi Point, enjoy Hi Point ... but they're entirely different guns

If only Hi Point would make a Glock magazine model
1 - then Hi Point couldn't sell you their magazines
2 - would it fold in half and go in my saddlebag?

Inebriated
October 20, 2012, 04:52 PM
1 - then Hi Point couldn't sell you their magazines
2 - would it fold in half and go in my saddlebag?
1 - I don't want their single stack mags.
2 - I can make anything fold in half if that's your only concern.

fal762x51
October 20, 2012, 05:06 PM
2 - I can make anything fold in half if that's your only concern.

Unless you clarify, that has to be the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

meanmrmustard
October 20, 2012, 05:32 PM
reviews: any moron with a keyboard can write a bad review when they encounter something they don't understand, while satisfied customers tend to keep to themselves
cheap ammo: mine eats WWB and the cheapo Federal plated plinking stuff, how cheap do you need?
folding: motorcycle saddlebag, backpack, laptop case ... sometimes I don't want to fart around with a rifle case to go to the range. correction I almost never want to screw around with a rifle case going to the range, I'm carrying anough crap without adding in an awkward 26"+ delicate stick
accuracy: mine is decently accurate, although I admit that a better front sight would improve accuracy a great deal
Hi Point: they're surprisingly nice little PCC's, if you like Hi Point, enjoy Hi Point ... but they're entirely different guns


1 - then Hi Point couldn't sell you their magazines
2 - would it fold in half and go in my saddlebag?
Don't be angry, I gave my experience. Glad yours is working for you, but it doesn't change that others have not had your luck. Me included.

I think they're overpriced for what they are, I don't trust them, and you're right; they and Hi Points are entirely different PCCs. Hi Points have proven to be better, in several ways.

I don't mind range bags or rifle cases. They serve their purpose.
I've not shot a Hi Point that wouldn't cycle steel. Cheap rifle, cheap ammo. Can't beat that.
Rifle cases are delicate? Are you certain?

I respect your opinion and experience with your KT. I'm sorry that mine differs greatly.

PT92
October 20, 2012, 09:50 PM
+1 on the Get It Already side ;)! I have two Sub2K's 9mm (bought them gosh I think 7-10 years ago now :eek: when they were had [when found] for $240) and one Hi Point .45acp carbine which I love but it literally weighs as much as both of my Subs. While I don't have the 9mm Hi Point I have shot them and they too are great little carbines hands-down for the money. Everything is UP in price now though and I paid $340 just last Christmas for my HP 45 carbine (I have a HP .45acp handgun that uses same mags also). So IMO you can flip a coin on the KT vs. HP carbines and not know the difference when it's all said and done (kinda like a 500 vs an 870 or the like ...).

I have seen the Beretta CX4 Carbines at the range and they are very fine beautiful Ergonomic carbines. But heck you can get two for the price of one in terms of the Subs/HPs vs. CX4 Storms...

Gotta be honest and say I have never heard of a bad experience with the Sub2K or HP carbine (handguns are a whole different potato but here too I have been apparently "lucky") and I have read a lot--I'm sure it's out there but it's gotta be rare as I never see it...? Heck anything man made can and will at some point fail....

jhco
October 20, 2012, 09:56 PM
Cool little gun, not as useful as other carbines but still neat in its own way. Get it.

RX-178
October 20, 2012, 11:33 PM
Just get the danged thing.

The manual warns that aluminum cased ammunition can damage the weapon, but there is no such warning on steel cased, and I've never had any problems from them.

The only jamming and reliability problems I've ever encountered were from using Korean-made 33rd magazines.

Domino
October 21, 2012, 12:50 AM
I've had my S2k since 2003, and I've easily fired over 2,500 rounds through it. Most of it has been Brown Bear 115g FMJ and GA Arms 115g FMJ reloads. No problems with mine, in fact the only malfunctions I've EVER had were with Brown Bear 145g HP (which is crap anyway) and it would not cycle at all with that ammo. Its OK though, my Glock shot it all up without a hitch. The S2k is a neat little weapon and I would much rather have it over a Hi-Point. I've shot a few Hi-Points by the way and they all had problems due to thier crappy magazine design. Glock mags FTW!

mgkdrgn
October 21, 2012, 10:45 AM
Found a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 in 9mm at the LGS today. I was REALLY tempted to put it on layaway until January (leaving MS to head home to WV for a few months). They want $399, which seems like a deal considering they are going for more than that on Gunbroker. Oh, and it also took Glock mags, which would be convenient since I'm planning on picking up a Glock 17 soon.

Decisions, decisions...

:evil:
If you don't want it, please let me know where it is so I can get it.

Rob G
October 21, 2012, 02:06 PM
I'd say buy it. A friend of mine purchased one last spring and we've put probalby 2k rounds through it since then. The gun has been 100% reliable and we've been shooting cheap steel case monarch and wolf ammo in it. Accuracy is pretty solid. I have absolutely no problem hitting soda cans at 100 yards with the stock iron sights. At 50 yards I can chew the center out of target standing unsupported. Although YMMV.

Field stripping and cleaning is pretty easy and the folding feature is actually kind of nice if you want a carry along rifle. My buddy keeps his in a laptop case.

2 - I can make anything fold in half if that's your only concern.

So can I, but can you put it back together and have it work properly?

bigfatdave
October 21, 2012, 03:43 PM
I don't mind range bags or rifle cases. They serve their purpose.
...
Rifle cases are delicate? Are you certain?

The rifles within are somewhat delicate, but if you're just going to be silly about it, have fun with that.
I often prefer to take a folding or takedown rifle to the range, because I don't like dealing with a rifle-length item to transport, but do want to shoot a rifle at the range
Sometimes I want a rifle I can transport incognito in a laptop bag or similar
Sometimes I'm on a cross-country road trip and the car is packed up tight already

Can you take your Hi-Point somewhere and NOT have it look like a rifle?

Just portability makes the sub2000 a better option for me, not to mention that whenever a friend brings a HP to the range I outshoot them (granted, the higher capacity mags help a little)

meanmrmustard
October 21, 2012, 03:52 PM
The rifles within are somewhat delicate, but if you're just going to be silly about it, have fun with that.
I often prefer to take a folding or takedown rifle to the range, because I don't like dealing with a rifle-length item to transport, but do want to shoot a rifle at the range
Sometimes I want a rifle I can transport incognito in a laptop bag or similar
Sometimes I'm on a cross-country road trip and the car is packed up tight already

Can you take your Hi-Point somewhere and NOT have it look like a rifle?

Just portability makes the sub2000 a better option for me, not to mention that whenever a friend brings a HP to the range I outshoot them (granted, the higher capacity mags help a little)
I prefer that my rifles look like rifles, yes. If I'm cross country on a trip with my family, get pulled over, I'd rather not explain the folded, concealed, carbine hidden away in a lap top case.

I have outshot KTs...no matter the magazines. Their sights are junk. Even the one I owned. They just don't offer anything that would make me spend the price they command these days, not when I can have two HPs for a few bills more. Or, a JR carbine. Other than taking Glock mags, they're not worth it, not when I can get a JR that is 30.5" collapsed and takes Glock mags and is outstanding in the accuracy department, or cheap out and get a HP for much less. There isn't anything silly about getting more for the same or even less.

Kiln
October 22, 2012, 12:05 AM
I have trouble trusting the Hi Point carbines, after being on the Hi Point forums for a while I've seen several posts about firing pin channels that deformed so badly that the gun wouldn't fire. Reported round counts seem to be 3000+ rounds but still...

I'd try the Kel Tec over the Hi Point as far as the carbines go.

PT92
October 22, 2012, 01:22 AM
I have trouble trusting the Hi Point carbines, after being on the Hi Point forums for a while I've seen several posts about firing pin channels that deformed so badly that the gun wouldn't fire. Reported round counts seem to be 3000+ rounds but still...

I'd try the Kel Tec over the Hi Point as far as the carbines go.
Good info to be sure. IMO when the buyer purchasing a carbine in the ballpark area of $350 it is to be expected that something will indeed "most likely" fail after multiple K's are fired. Now known design flaws should be addressed by the vendor of course--When Kel-Tec sold their first lots of the Sub2K's there was a problem with the empty brass hitting the plastic covered ejection port causing it to wear down (they addressed this by sending a metal clip that snapped into the ejection port and this corrected the problem). Here too it was only an issue for the avid shooters who put K's rounds downrange.

bigfatdave
October 22, 2012, 01:50 PM
I prefer that my rifles look like rifles, yes. If I'm cross country on a trip with my family, get pulled over, I'd rather not explain the folded, concealed, carbine hidden away in a lap top case.
Do you get searched a lot on road trips? Maybe that's because you have obvious rifles.

You obviously aren't the target market for the sub2000, which has zero bearing on whether the OP is better off buying one.

PT92
October 22, 2012, 05:27 PM
Speaking of, this is a guy I follow on YouTube and he mentiones a very frequently discussed role of the Sub2K (start watching at the 1:50 mark for the Sub2K info):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pPL4ydYm78&feature=g-all-u

steveb4c
October 23, 2012, 12:38 AM
i picked up a g17 configuration about 6 weeks ago for $415. now i want to kick the crap out of myself......for not buying one when they were about $300. i don't regret it though, and would buy another if i could find one. found a nice unused laptop bag at a garage sale for $5. now if i could find a couple 33rd mags for less than $40 i'd pick up a few. as far as the sights, i don't mind them. i can make an empty 50rd box of ammo dance at 85 yrds.

wideym
October 23, 2012, 08:40 AM
The Sub2000 is a great little carbine. I own both the 9mm and the .40s&w, and bought another 9mm version for my niece. I have had zero problems out of my S2Ks, but I have had three HiPoint carbines come through the gunshop I work at for repairs.

Aside from the price, the best thing about HiPoint is their lifetime warrenty. First owner or 100th owner, it doesn't matter, they will fix it. They have even installed the updated stock on older models sent in.

fatcat4620
October 23, 2012, 11:05 AM
You could just ave your money and wait for arsenal to import these bad boys
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/ARMSAndHunting-2012/i-bvCzwxx/0/640x427/ArmsAndHunting2012-23-640x427.jpg

meanmrmustard
October 23, 2012, 07:01 PM
Do you get searched a lot on road trips? Maybe that's because you have obvious rifles.

You obviously aren't the target market for the sub2000, which has zero bearing on whether the OP is better off buying one.
No. I don't parade my arms, but I don't hide what either doesn't need hidden, or what could be a potential reasons for an LEO to give me the hairy eyeball. Do as you please, I'll wave at you on the side of the road.

...and I thought I was. If the sell is the folding feature, then you've lost me. Which, if I've read correctly, puts me in the camp of "why should he buy", not "just buy it.

meanmrmustard
October 23, 2012, 07:02 PM
You could just ave your money and wait for arsenal to import these bad boys
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/ARMSAndHunting-2012/i-bvCzwxx/0/640x427/ArmsAndHunting2012-23-640x427.jpg
What's that little treasure? Now we're talking!

Rob G
October 23, 2012, 08:09 PM
What's that little treasure? Now we're talking!

It's a 9mm Vityaz brought to you by Izhmash, makers of the famous AK-47. There's a rumor that Arsenal is looking in to doing a semi-auto version for sale in the US. If they do I'll be first in line to buy one.

rhinoh
October 23, 2012, 08:13 PM
If the sell is the folding feature, then you've lost me.

To me the folding is THE outstanding feature. If it didn't fold I'd have no interest in it!
It would be a $200 tops gun if it didn't fold....IMHO.

meanmrmustard
October 23, 2012, 08:34 PM
To me the folding is THE outstanding feature. If it didn't fold I'd have no interest in it!
It would be a $200 tops gun if it didn't fold....IMHO.
Well, if you said it was more accurate, more robust, AND lighter to boot, it'd have my money again. But, there's far better options in its stable at the commanding price. But, that's me. After owning one, I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for another, folding or not.

meanmrmustard
October 23, 2012, 08:35 PM
It's a 9mm Vityaz brought to you by Izhmash, makers of the famous AK-47. There's a rumor that Arsenal is looking in to doing a semi-auto version for sale in the US. If they do I'll be first in line to buy one.
Thank you for this info. But, you're mistaken : you'll have to beat me to that line!

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