[lefteyedom]

Today, what is the most effective 9mm cartridge for personal defense?

[45lcshooter]

I used to use Federal 147gr. Hydra-Shok JHP. But that was years ago, since I reload now it has opened my options up. I dont excactly remember what I use now. (computer is in my room, reloading stuff in basement, not been in the dungeon yet manufactoring bullets yet today.)

But I've shot about 3 boxes of the Hyrdra-Shok and they seem to hold up and do their duty.

[PabloJ]

If I owned 9x19 I would probably load it with Hornady 'Duty' 135gr or Speer 124gr Gold Dot slugs with +P rating.

[bigfatdave]

the differences between the top commercial defensive loads are negligible
there is no magic bullet that stands out from the crowd, except the one tha is 100% reliable in your gun

have fun testing various defense/duty loads on water jugs and pumpkins

[BrainOnSigs]

Speer Gold Dots have been my choice for years but I recently switched to Federal Tactical LE HST ammo. I have been shooting them thru various materials over the last few months. The penetration, the expansion, and the bullet weight retention are all very consistent.

Of course bullet placement is the deciding factor.....as bigfatdave alluded to...there are many excellent rounds available in 9mm.

I don't remember where I found this so I can't give that person credit. Look at #6 and #7.

http://brainonsigs.smugmug.com/Other/Things-that-go-BANG/i-kbvS4pX/0/XL/9mmtests-XL.jpg

[wnycollector]

For years I carried the Federal 9BPLE 115gr +P+. The round was inexpensive to practice with and very accurate plus is had a long real world track record of stopping bad people from doing bad things. During the great ammo shortage of 08', I was down to three full mags of the 9BPLE. I was able to score a 500 round case of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+ T-Series Ammo (RA9TA) too feed my 9mm pistols. This load does everything my old 9BPLE could do but with a newer bonded bullet. Here (http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/defense-loads-of-choice-the-word-from-the-street/) is an interesting article on this subject.

[HorseSoldier]

Reputable JHP from any manufacturer. Condition yourself so that any time you start wondering which is the absolute best, you go to the range and work on putting rounds on target at speed. Anything else is non-productive, wasted effort.

[smalls]

The most effective is the one that feeds reliably in your gun, shoots where you want it to shoot, and hits it's target.

[481]

So long as you pick one of the premium JHPs offered by Federal, Winchester, Remington, Speer, etc., they are all effective.

I personally prefer heavy-for-caliber JHPs (that means 147 gr JHPs for the 9mm), but the lower sectional density offerings are very good, too, and I'd carry them without a worry if they were all that I could get.

[tipoc]

This From smalls is good...

The most effective is the one that feeds reliably in your gun, shoots where you want it to shoot, and hits it's target.

So is this...

So long as you pick one of the premium JHPs offered by Federal, Winchester, Remington, Speer, etc., they are all effective.

and...

Reputable JHP from any manufacturer. Condition yourself so that any time you start wondering which is the absolute best, you go to the range and work on putting rounds on target at speed.

All good and accurate seems to me. The more you study and read and shoot the more you see these comments are on the spot.

tipoc

[smalls]

There are just too many factors to say "Yes, this ammo will expand".

There may have been some ammo in the past that just doesn't work, but I think it's mostly been weeded out by people who test them in gel. Not that gel tests are the end all be all of answers, but if it won't expand reliably in gel, I think it's safe to say it won't expand on a human, regardless of factors.

[hardluk1]

lefteye know that in short barreled pistols some rounds work better than others. The 124gr +p loads also help with keeping that velocity up in a 3 or 3 1/2" barrel. I use a 124gr speer gd +P load in my 9mm. Also no standard defence cartidge is a one shoot stoper so practice double taps and triple taps. And shoot enought to be sure your handgun and ammo work together. Look at underwood ammo for a good buy for defence ammo too.

[C0untZer0]

I like the 147gr Winchester Ranger T - RA9T

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

Pretty consistently expands to .65" and pretty consistently penetrates to 14"

[Ehtereon11B]

I typically load Hornady Critical Defense or Cor-bon Pow R Ball for all my SD/HD firearms.

[Kachok]

I like 124gr PDX1 for factory fodder, but I use my 147gr XTP handlaods in my full frame :D

[coalman]

Most "effective"? No idea. I run 147gr GD. They are effective enough for me.

[jamesmhebert]

FYI, BrainOnSigs' image of the water jug bullets came from this page: http://frag.110mb.com/

Lots more info about the rounds used there, plus closeups of each.

[BSA1]

The one that works in gun everytime and anytime.

[351 WINCHESTER]

The old Federal Border Patrol round +P+ had a very good track record in actual shootings. I supose the newer ammo is probably better though.

[lefteyedom]

For the last few years I have carried ether a kel-tec 380, load with 95 grn Remington FM or a 1911 with 45 ACP Hornady 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point. Talk about two extremes, but they worked for me.

Now I want to add a Goldie Locks pistol, ether a Glock 19 or 23 is high on the list. Wanting to burn a ton of ammo at the target range basically rules out a 40 S&W.

It is hard for some of us Elmer Kieth fans to accept that technology can replace shear mass...

Thanks for the info
Lefteyedom

[Water-Man]

I prefer either Federal HST 147gr. or Speer Gold Dot 124gr.+P.

See which one your gun likes best.

[mdauben]

the differences between the top commercial defensive loads are negligible
there is no magic bullet that stands out from the crowd, except the one tha is 100% reliable in your gun

This.

Personally, I use 124gr +P JHP from either Speer (Gold Dot) or Federal (HST) becuase they both operate well in my guns and are available in economical 50 round packages but I would not feel bad with any of the current premium JHP loads.

[1858]

Today, what is the most effective 9mm cartridge for personal defense?
.

If you plan on shooting through glass such as a car windshield, you might want to consider bullets that are bonded. However, bonding can reduce expansion in some situations. For example, Hornady's Critical Defense 115gr FTX is supposed to work well through glass but it doesn't expand too well in bare gelatin at 10 feet. For the most part, bullet selection involves a compromise, either for the firearm or for terminal performance or both.

[Teachu2]

Personal Defense rarely involves shooting thru windshields....at least in my world.

[1858]

Personal Defense rarely involves shooting thru windshields....at least in my world.


Considering that we have little control over when or where we'll need to defend ourselves, do we know for sure what barriers might be in the way? Do we know how many layers an attacker will be wearing? Statistically, the vast majority of civilians, and LE for that matter, never intentionally discharge a firearm in the direction of another person, so for most people this discussion is purely academic. However, as a strong believer in Murphy's Law, I'd rather choose a bullet that performs well in all standard tests rather than one that simply expands well in milk jugs full of water.

[TarDevil]

For example, Hornady's Critical Defense 115gr FTX is supposed to work well through glass but it doesn't expand too well in bare gelatin at 10 feet.

Sure you don't mean Hornady Critical Duty? I thought Critical Defense was the opposite of your description.

[Teachu2]

Considering that we have little control over when or where we'll need to defend ourselves, do we know for sure what barriers might be in the way? Do we know how many layers an attacker will be wearing? Statistically, the vast majority of civilians, and LE for that matter, never intentionally discharge a firearm in the direction of another person, so for most people this discussion is purely academic. However, as a strong believer in Murphy's Law, I'd rather choose a bullet that performs well in all standard tests rather than one that simply expands well in milk jugs full of water.
I understand that, and anxiously await your presentation of a realistic scenario (or even better, a documented incident) of a self-defense situation where a civilian needed to shoot through a windshield.

In my LEO days, I had occasion to fire upon a vehicle. As a civilian, I cannot imagine a self-defense situation where doing so would be justified.

I once had a salesperson tell me that it was essential for my dedicated home defense shotgun to be able to shoot under water, in case I was involved in an incident that ended up in a swimming pool. I couldn't quite make that stretch, as neither I nor my neighbors have swimming pools.

So go ahead - educate me about my need to defend myself by shooting through a windshield. I'm always willing to learn.

[jmr40]

So go ahead - educate me about my need to defend myself by shooting through a windshield. I'm always willing to learn.

During an attempted car jacking it there might be a need to shoot through the glass from the inside. I admit LE and civilain needs are dfferent, but if there is no downside to being prepared for the worst case scenario, why not.

I'm not a brand junkie. I sorta like any good 124 gr. HP that will leaves the muzzle at 1200 fps or a bit more. I've got a lifetime supply of Gold Dot +P's. There may be better, but I've confidece in what I have.

[Teachu2]

I'm fine with the choice of ammo, but not with the choice of shooting through a windshield in self-defense. It's murky territory at best, and if the perps in front of my Tundra I'm far better off running him over.

If the BGs are in a vehicle and I'm afoot, my time would be better spent seeking cover. I sure don't want to shoot into a windshield - I might get run over by a wounded/dying/dead perp.

[Bozwell]

I tend to agree with Teachu2 on this one, but if we're talking bonded JHP's vs. non-bonded JHP's, the delta in performance tends to be pretty slim. On the other hand, if you were carrying FMJ's instead of JHP's so that you could better shoot through barriers such as windshields, you're sacrificing so much in terms of expansion that it's very likely not a worthwhile decision.

[PaulKersey3]

As BrainOnSig's lovely example shows, the Winchester SXT 127gr +p+ is extremely effective. It's what I use, and I was hipped to it by a contractor friend. I believe some sheriff departments use it too (that and federal) I've seen some vids on the net and it's quite devastating to ballistic gelatin. It also offers significant penetration on automobile metal and glass. My friend says that's why they use it.

[mhuxtable]

Speer gold dots is my SD/HD round

[CZ57]

The Ranger 127 gr. +P+, the SPEER Gold Dot 124 gr. +P or the Federal HST 124 gr. +P. They all penetrate to 12" of ballistic gelatin after passing through 4 layers of denim. About as good as it gets for civilian use. I wouldn't sneeze at the 147 gr. +P loads either.

You might want to read what I just posted here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=682747 ;)