Need 6.5x55 bullet recommendation


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Marty B
October 21, 2012, 04:51 PM
I just picked up a stainless Howa 1500 in 6.5x55 with a 1 in 8" twist and 22" barrel. I'm going to use it for some of my deer hunting this year and was wondering what bullets y'all were having good luck with. I am looking for a slight edge toward accuracy and good performance on deer. Any pet loads would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Marty

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Captcurt
October 21, 2012, 05:15 PM
I just picked up a stainless Howa 1500 in 6.5x55 with a 1 in 8" twist and 22" barrel. I'm going to use it for some of my deer hunting this year and was wondering what bullets y'all were having good luck with. I am looking for a slight edge toward accuracy and good performance on deer. Any pet loads would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Marty
I settled on the 120 gr Speer HotCore. It was very accurate in my 700 Classic and worked swell on whitetails. The Swede and Remingtons 260 are really close to being the perfect whitetail calibers IMHO.

My favorite load was 46 gr of IMR4350 in PMC brass, CCI 200 primer. This a MAX load in three of my seven loading manuals. Start at 42 gr and work up. The 1in8" twist will handle the 140 gr very well, too.

Andrew Leigh
October 22, 2012, 10:44 AM
Hi,

I have had great results with 130gr. Accubonds and 140gr. Sierra Game Kings, will be loading 120gr. Sierra Pro Hunters shortly.

I did you lots of researching on Amercian sites regarding 130gr. Accubonds and most were using a 0.025" jump which I also used.

From personal experience the Sierra's like more jump so on the 140's I increased the jump to 0.075".

Can't give you a load as we use different powders here. I did notice lots of variation between the speeds, the higher I went on the 130 Accubonds the worse it got. Groups opened up to 0.75MOA at 2850fps which was odd as most loads had the Accubonds at 2900fps which is what I was chasing. The load I settled on gave me 2680fps on a 24" barrel

On three shot three group averages the 130 Accubonds were 0.62MOA and the 140 Game Kings were giving 0.60MOA in windy conditions. In both the fouling shots were included. In both cases the best group was 0.5MOA. I think the 140's were marginally better due to their mass in the windy conditions.

PS: Was using Remington brass and those Russian Primers

Float Pilot
October 22, 2012, 06:29 PM
Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 6.5x55 Swede Mauser.
1 in 8 twist rate, 22 inch featehr weight barrel
*This rifle has been glass bedded.

At 100 yards, light snow, 32F. 6-8 knot wind.

Federal factory 140gr Soft Point:
= 2,375 fps, 0.50 inch group.

120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip: 46.5gr RL-19, Lapua, CCI BR-2, 3.085 col
= 2,560 fps and a 1.0 inch group

120gr Sierra Match King: 46.0 gr RL-19, Lapua, BR-2, 3.085 col
= 2,508 fps and a 0.50 inch group.

140gr Rem Accu-Tip, 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.970 col
= 2,640 fps and a 1.0 inch group

140gr Nosler Partition, 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.950 col
= 2,569 fps and a 1.5 inch group

140gr Hornady Soft :Point , 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.850 col
= 2,575 fps and a 2.0 inch group

160gr Hornady Round Nose: 45.0 gr RL-22, PMC, Rem 9.5, 3.100 col
= 2,288 fps and a 1.5 inch group



120gr Sierra Match King: 46.0 gr RL-19, Lapua, BR-2, 3.085 col
= 2,508 fps and a 0.50 inch group.

120gr Hornady A-Max, 48.8gr IMR-4831, ww,ww, 2.964 col
= 2,925 fps and a 0.75 inch group Lee Crimp. High Pressure

129gr Hornady SST, 47.3gr IMR-4831, WW, WW Stand, 2.942 col
=2,808 fps and a 1.5 inch group. no crimp. Cratered primers

140gr Rem Accu-Tip, 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.970 col
= 2,640 fps and a 1.0 inch group

140gr Nosler Partition, 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.950 col
= 2,569 fps and a 1.5 inch group

140gr Hornady Soft :Point , 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.850 col
= 2,575 fps and a 2.0 inch group

140gr Hornady SST. 46.5 gr RL-19, Lapua, CCI-200, 3.090 COL
= 2,570 fps and a 1.0 inch group

140gr Hornady SST, 44.5 gr H-4350, Lapua, CCI-200, 3.090 col
= 2,608 fps and a 1.5 inch group

140gr Hornady SST, 44.5gr H-100V, Lapua, CCI-200 3.090 col
=2,669 fps and a 0.50 inch group.

140gr Sierra Game King, 44.5gr H-100V, WW, WW, 2.930col
= 2,675 fps and a 0.55 inch group Lee factory Crimp, no pressure signs

140gr Hornady Soft Point, 44.5gr H-100V, ww, ww, 2.945 col
=2,680 fps and a 2.5 inch group. Lee Crimp. Some pressure signs

140gr Hornady R. N. 44.5gr H-100V, WW, WW 2.975 col
=2,620 fps and a HUGE Group, lee Crimp

140gr Hornady SST, 46.5gr IMR-4831, ww,ww, 2.995 col
=2,700 fps and a 0.75 inch group, primer flow

160gr Hornady Round Nose: 45.0 gr RL-22, PMC, Rem 9.5, 3.100 col
= 2,288 fps and a 1.5 inch group

Coltdriver
October 22, 2012, 10:28 PM
I have taken a few of Float Pilot's loads and run them thru my M38 Swede. Outstanding results from the RL 22 loads.

With your Howa you have a modern receiver. I am not encouraging going right to very hot loads. However, I have a 6.54X54 in a modern receiver and I have been able to get a 140 grain Nosler Partition up to 2700 fps with no excessive pressure signs yet.

So pick a load range and work up. And also take the opportunity to use the optimum charge weight method. You will find a load that works just right for your rifle.

I found my Swede and my CZ in 6.5X55 to have too long of a throat for me to get close to the lands. I had the CZ rechambered to a much shorter throat and got great results. I also sold it but the fellow who bought it has got three through the same hole with it.

The optimum charge weight method will reduce a lot of that need to get right on the lands.

Kachok
October 23, 2012, 12:52 AM
I have had fantastic luck with 120gr ballistic tips on deer, but my absolute best groups were with 129gr SSTs and RL19, one hole groups with that combo out of my Tikka, I posted the load on here a few months ago. Here is the link http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=663791&highlight=awsome+6.5x55+load

Andrew Leigh
October 23, 2012, 05:55 AM
@Floatpilot.

Great resource you posted there thanks. We have different powders so it will be difficult to use but the relative performance of bullets and weights and velocities are invaluable.

What brand is WW?

Marty B
October 23, 2012, 01:01 PM
Thanks for the help so far. I decided on 140 grain bullets and got some Sierra SBT's and some hornady interlocks and I'll start there and see what happens. I will start with IMR 4350 and if the results are not satisfactory I may get some R-22 and try that also. I'll try to let y'all know how it works out.

Thanks again,
Marty

Float Pilot
October 23, 2012, 02:38 PM
Andrew...... WW brand is (Winchester-Western brass)
What are the names of your Powders in Afrika Sud ? I am sure there is some sort of cross reference chart.

Those loads I listed were from my M-70 with a strong action ... The short light weight barrel dictates which loads it will shoot accurately.

For years I have been using Swedish small ring Mausers for shooting competitions and I have LOTs of loads which work well in them (those?) as well.

Most are listed in my hand wriiten hand-loading log books, I used to have most in my computer but I had (still have) computer problems and I lost most of my documents. Plus I lost spell check.... Stinking Gateway


Here are a couple I managed to find that were for Swedish m/38 rifle with a 23.5 inch barrel.
UIse a Sierra Game King, or a Nosler Ballistic Tip instead of the HPBT and you will be fine for deer.

THIS M/38 RIFLE HAS A BORE WHICH IT NOT ALL THAT GREAT

FORGOT TO MENTION.... LAPUA BRASS IS THE BEST BRASS FOR THE 6.5x55mm SWEDE. ALL US made 6.5x55mm bras sis undersized. LAPUA will last for 15 reloads if you do it right. The US stuff will stretch just ahead of the case head.

Sierra 120 grain Match King,
45.3 grains of H-100V,
Lapua Brass and a CCI BR2 primer. , l
oaded to a short 3.085 inch COL.
From my 1943 Husqvarna m/38 , this load gave an average of 2,770 fps
and a 0.50 inch group with one flyer out to 0.75 inch.


6.5x55mm
120gr Sierra HPBT
43.0gr H-4350
CCI-200
WW Brass
3.00 col, no crimp

2,649 fps m/38
1.67 in grp m/38
no pressure signs
Clean brass

6.5x55mm
120gr NOSLER Bal-Tip
47.0gr RL-22
CCI-200
WW Brass
3.00 col, no crimp
2,619 fps m/38
3.69 in grp m/38
no pressure signs
Clean brass
Aug 30, 2009. temp 65’F


6.5x55mm
140gr Sierra HPBT
46.3gr RL-22
CCI-200
WW Brass
3.055 col, no crimp

2,622 fps m/38
1.19 in grp m/38
no pressure signs
Clean brass
Aug 30, 2009. temp 65’F

6.5x55mm 120gr Sierra HPBT
47.0gr RL-19 CCI-200
WW Brass 3.00 col, no crimp
2,693 fps m/38
1.70 in grp m/38
no pressure signs very Clean brass temp 65 degrees F 08/30/2009
Shot from dirty bore.


6.5x55mm
140gr Sierra HPBT
46.3gr H-4831
Fed 210 match
Lapua Brass
3.100 col, no crimp
2,545 fps m/38
1.12 in group m/38
slight pressure signs
very Clean brass
Sept 6, 2009. temp 55’F

Xeon64
January 16, 2013, 11:35 AM
I just joined because of this thread.

I have a customized m38 mauser that is in excellent shape. It has the military barrel cut down to 23" I just started reloading and decided to start with the 6.5x55 round. I find load data for modern rifles and load data for Mausers M38/96. I am using Alliant Reloader 22 with a 140grain Nosler Accubond. My question is this: Alliant says to us 40 grains of RL22. I see a lot of people online posting that they use between 42 grains and 44grains in their Mausers. I was thinking of using 42 grains. Will this be safe in a M38? I have a felling the American powder companies are recommending lower pressure loads because they do not know what shape these old Mausers are in just like commercial ammo makers do.

Here is what I was thinking of.

Hornady brass once shot in my m/38 & resized with LEE full length die trimmed to 2.165"
OAL at 3.1" I got this from splitting the distance of Max OAL and the OAL of Mil Spec M41 which measured 3.05"
140 grain Nosler Accubond
42 grains of RL22
CCI Primer
uncrimp Neck

Is this safe for a M/38? I have shot the gun a lot with Sellier and Bellot 131 gr, Remington 131gr, and Hornady Superperformance. All shot about okay but not great for accuracy.

mnhntr
January 16, 2013, 11:39 AM
I do not use a 6.5x55 but my 260 is 1/8 twist and i have had excellent results with 142gr SMKs and 140gr Berger VLDs

Float Pilot
January 16, 2013, 12:40 PM
XEON's load guess-ta-mation sounds like a good one. (at least with my rifles, yours might not be the same) Just fine tune both ways for the best group. Also be aware of other factors like barrel to stock pressure which can affect your groups.

Xeon64
January 16, 2013, 01:39 PM
Thanks for the response. My barrel is free floated and the receiver is glass bedded and pillar bedded. I think I will make a few 40 grain loads and a few 42 grain loads. Attached are some photos.

SlamFire1
January 16, 2013, 09:08 PM
Is this safe for a M/38? I have shot the gun a lot with Sellier and Bellot 131 gr, Remington 131gr, and Hornady Superperformance. All shot about okay but not great for accuracy.

When was the receiver made?. If it is one of those WW1 or earlier receivers keep the velocities to Swedish service rifle standards. While the Swedish rifles are some of the better old rifles, all of the steels, all the receivers from that period were made under primitive conditions and are highly variable in strength. The steels used were plain carbon steels, state of the art then, but used for rebar now. Plain carbon steels are much weaker than alloys today, even WW2 era alloys.

If your receiver is 1930ís or 40ís, the plain carbon steels were made under better conditions, so the risk of receiver set back is less.

For stuff made in the 20ís, I donít know, still an era of primitive process controls but getting better. I would keep charges at service rifle levels.

NCsmitty
January 16, 2013, 10:18 PM
When was the receiver made?

It was mentioned that it's a '42 Husky, and likely some of the best of the breed for Swedish steel.


NCsmitty

Xeon64
January 17, 2013, 12:10 AM
It is a 1942 Husqvarna. I think I will start at 42 grains of RL 22 and check for signs of excessive pressure. If I can get to 2500 fps I will be happy. At 42 grains with a 22 inch barrel I expect around 2200 fps. Basically 30-30 fps I do not have a chronograph so I am guestimating.

Kachok
January 17, 2013, 10:43 AM
42.5gr of RL 22 is listed at 2560fps per Nosler (using a 23" barrel), that is their starting load with that powder. If you were using a 22" barrel expect to loose about 20-30fps tops vs the slightly longer tube that was tested with.
Game Kings, Core-Lokts, SSTs, Hotcores, TSX, Partitions, and Ballistic Tips are all well regarded bullets in 6.5mm. I load 140gr SSTs, 140gr Game Kings, and 120gr Ballistic Tips myself.

Xeon64
January 17, 2013, 01:54 PM
Was the Nosler info for a Mauser for a Modern production rifle like a Tikka? My Nosler Manual does not specify between mausers and modern production rifles. My Lyman book does not even list RL-22 for the 6.5x55

Float Pilot
January 17, 2013, 02:24 PM
Swedish Steel ( from Swedish Iron Ore) is and was some of the best in the world. Back during the late 1890 and early 1900s is WAS the best in the world.
There is a reason that warm Norma factory ammo has been fired in Swedish Mausers for over 100 years.
US factory loads are whimpy because there are also Krag rifles out there chambered for 6.5x55mm and the lawyers of the world have decided that US citizens are too stupid to not shoot warmer loads in those weak Krags.


On the bright side, there is not a deer in your area who will know the difference if he is shot with a 140 grain bullet going 2,500 at the muzzle or 2,600fps at the muzzle. Within 300-400 yards it will all be the same result.

USE LAPUA BRASS

Kachok
January 17, 2013, 04:00 PM
Was the Nosler info for a Mauser for a Modern production rifle like a Tikka? My Nosler Manual does not specify between mausers and modern production rifles. My Lyman book does not even list RL-22 for the 6.5x55
That info is for a modern action, though I am sure the starting charge would work in an old small ring Mauser. I use the max charge 46.5gr in my Tikka with FANTASTIC results, and not even a hint of pressure. You don't need the 2800+fps a modern action can push to hunt deer, I have used my factory 139gr Prvi SP (2550fps) to take deer and the 6.5x55 delivers even at that low speed within reasonable ranges. As with all small calibers shot placement is key.
As Float Pilot said Lapua brass is supposed to be top of the foodchain good, but seeing as I have never been able to find it I have been thrilled with the Norma brass I have bought and really surprised how good my Prvi brass is. I do avoid Winchester and Remington brass in my Sweed but use them extensively in my other rifles.

SlamFire1
January 17, 2013, 04:05 PM
Swedish Steel ( from Swedish Iron Ore) is and was some of the best in the world. Back during the late 1890 and early 1900s is WAS the best in the world.
The Bessemer process would have never come about (1870ís) if it had not been for Swedish iron ore. Swedish iron ore lacked phosphorus, something very unusual, and Bessemer was able to make steel from the stuff without problems. It was only later with other ores that had phosphorus that Bessemer was almost bankrupted before a fix was found.

But to say, Swedish steel was the best in the 1890ís is probably true, but this is 2013. You have to look at the quality of the steel in its period, and what was great in 1890 is low or poor metallurgical quality in todayís world.

That is why it is best practice not to exceed period pressures with period receivers.

I recall an article in Rifle magazine where the writer had a Swedish mauser receiver that had receiver set back, I just donít remember the date.

Clark
January 17, 2013, 05:17 PM
120 gr Nosler Ballistic tip.

Xeon64
January 21, 2013, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the info. I set this load up

42.1 gn of RL-22 with the 140 Nosler Accubond.

First shot was great no signs of pressure. Second Shot primer was a little deformed but nothing to get concerned about. Third Shot, Flat primer. Fourth Shot the Primer Blew out and gas vented out the ports.

I am dropping the load down to 40 grains like Alliant says. Not sure if it is my chamber, OAL or primer causing the increase pressure. There was black around the neck of every shot and I find it odd the pressure increase incrementally on every shot until the primer blew.

USSR
January 21, 2013, 11:21 AM
Xeon64,

You've got something going on with your rifle or brass aside from that load, which is quite mild. I shot 48.0gr of RL22 in my modern (not milsurp Mauser) match rifle for years with 139-142gr bullets in Lapua brass.

Don

Xeon64
January 21, 2013, 11:45 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I have shot plenty commercial ammo and military ammo no problem. I am not sure what is going on. Before the primer blow it was shooting very accurate. I am also starting to question my OAL. I am at 3.1 the max is 3.150. Commercial Ammo is under 3.0 and the Military ammo is at 3.05. My bullet is not even touching the lans. I am thinking of bring it to a gun smith and getting them to check the chamber and head spacing. That is going to hit me for over 100 bucks which is why I have never done it.

Float Pilot
January 21, 2013, 03:16 PM
Wow,,, Something it wrong..... Usually black necks means the pressure is low and the gases are not being sealed by case mouth expansion...

1. Did you single load each round or where the other rounds in the magazine while firing?

2. Is your brass all trimmed to the correct and same length?

3. How much neck tension is gripping the bullet sides with your loads?

4. Did you use any crimp of just neck tension?

5. Have you super double-checked to make sure that you do not have something built up (like powder residue or a piece of jacketing) at the far end of your chamber or in the rifling leade?

Around here a head-space check is 10 bucks and 5 minutes.

6. Did you make sure you did not bump your case shoulders too far back? That will make the gun act like it has ahead-spacing problem.

Xeon64
January 21, 2013, 03:30 PM
Float Point, I loaded each round one at a time. The brass was size and trimmed to 2.165. I do not have away of measuring neck tension. I have a single stage LEE press with a Lee seating die. I followed the video on LEE's sight on how to use the seating die. There was no crimp just neck tension. I did not check for a jacket in the barell and there did not appear to be a powder build up. I measured the should and it all appeared to be right.

Float Pilot
January 21, 2013, 03:46 PM
WOW AGAIN...

An interesting mystery...

It is like something is changing as you continue to shoot...

I asked about the rounds in the magazine because sometimes a poorly sized expander can leave the necks too big and the recoil from other rounds being fired pushes the bullets into the case while they are in the magazine.
But you are not magazine loading...

If all your cases are the same,,,you only have a couple things are changing,,, the chamber is becoming warmer (hotter) and you have some powder and gas blowing back into the area of the chamber next to the case mouth...

Too bad you do not live around here, this would be fun to figure out...

Xeon64
January 21, 2013, 04:05 PM
Yeah I am pulling all of my bullets soon and measuring the powder charge again. Also I am going to slug my barrel and I might make a sulfur cast of my chamber. Then I will reload using 40grains of RL-22 instead of 42 grains. I did not want to go with 40 grains in the beginning because I am only going to get about 2100 FPS out of a 23" Barrel.

Coltdriver
January 21, 2013, 04:47 PM
The first sign of excessive headspace is a flattened primer. Have your smith check that.

Xeon64
January 21, 2013, 04:54 PM
But if I had excessive head spacing wouldn't that have showed up with commercial and military ammo?

Coltdriver
January 21, 2013, 10:25 PM
If you have a micrometer measure and compare your reloaded brass against the commercial and military stuff.

The cartridge headspaces on the shoulder. As FloatPilot points out you may have bumped the shoulder back enough to make your reloads just loose enough.

You can get a headspace measurement tool that indexes on the shoulder. I have never used one but Hornady has them. RCBS makes one too.

Keep us posted on what you find out.

Xeon64
January 21, 2013, 11:07 PM
Will do. I have a newborn baby so loading time is limited.

Float Pilot
January 22, 2013, 01:01 AM
What type of brass are you using?

For accuracy loads I often just do a neck resizing...

Xeon64
January 22, 2013, 09:25 AM
The brass is once shot Hornady and I am using a Lee Full Length resizer. I do not have a neck resizer. Attached is a photo of my two presses. One for resize, depriming, and seating and the other for priming only with a Lee Ram Prime. Also attached is a photo of one of my reloads.

Float Pilot
January 22, 2013, 04:24 PM
OH, I see your problem,,,,,,
Your loading bench is far too clean and not cluttered up....

You can semi-neck size with a full length die. Just start slow and in little increments and you can see the neck area being resized.... keep adjusting until the you stop just a hair short of having the entire neck squeezed back down.

I only use old single stag presses that I bought back around 1971... I have two loading benches for when hand-loading company comes over...

You need to take one of your factory rounds and measure where the shoulder starts and stops. Then compare that to one of your hand-loads and also against one of your fired cases.

Xeon64
January 22, 2013, 04:46 PM
Ha. The clutter is coming. I just built this bench and started to reload. Finding reloading supplies is difficult right now with all that is going on in Washington.

I measure the factor rounds before they were shot and they were not the same measurement that the Lyman and Nosler book say they should be. The unshot factor cases from neck to base were shorter than 2.165. Also when I measure the brass after being shot it is almost to the reloading manual specs. The shot brass measures between 2.164 - 2.171. I resize the neck is at 2.170. Then I use a case trimmer and get it down to the 2.165 that manual list as spec. If I have time to night I will get better measurements.

Xeon64
January 23, 2013, 07:09 PM
Alright. Here are my measurements. The only difference between my reloads and the factory are the case length and OAL. But my case is spec with the reloading manuals.

Andrew Leigh
January 24, 2013, 01:13 AM
By way of process of elimnation the only variables that differ between your loads and factory loads that shoot fine are the powder charge and the AOL. The powder charge is below max spec so that leaves the AOL.

Take an unprimed case and patially neck size by leaving the die scewed out. The purpose of which is to allow the neck to take a bullet but with minimum neck tension. Blacken the bullet with a sharpie to make sure that it actually touches the lands on chambering. Insert a bullet into the neck and chamber the unprimed dummy round. Remove and measure the AOL. Pull the bullet and do this twice again. Average out the three to give you seated on the lands measurement.

Now compare this against your loaded rounds to see if indeed you are seating off the lands. If not reseat starting at the Measured chambered AOL - 0.04". Remember that when developing loads always start off the lands, you can tweak the seating depth later. The closer you get to the lands to more the pressure increases for the same given powder charge.

In the ansence of a suitable gause you will need to redo this exercise for bullets type you load as the shape of the ogive changes from bullet to bullet. Extreme example, a round nose vs. a spitzer point.

You are currently 0.172" (4.37mm) over the factory spec which is massive. Many 6.5mm chambers were cut long to take the 160gr. bullets but I think you are seating right into the lands. Did you feel undue pressure when camming the bolt over with your reloads?

Good luck lets us know how close to the lands you actually loaded.

Xeon64
January 24, 2013, 10:08 AM
Thanks Andrew. I did do exactly what you said before reloading. I made a dummy round and blackened with a sharpie. For me to touch the lans the bullet is almost out of the case. So I seated the bullet between the OAL length of Mil ammo and maximum OAL. That came out to 3.1. At 3.1 Oal I have no problem cycling a round nor do I feel any pressure when closing the bolt. Also there are no lans marks on the bullet . I am starting to wonder if I just accidentally overloaded a charge. I do not use a powder drop. I measure each load by hand.

Andrew Leigh
January 24, 2013, 01:45 PM
Hi again,

I have the 5-0-5 scale and have been known to inadvertantly bump the weights with out noticing and have needed to go back and re-weigh until I find the point at which it changed and then redo the hard work.

Cheers

Float Pilot
January 24, 2013, 03:14 PM
On a real Swedish Mauser you cannot get a 140 grain boat-tail loaded long enough to touch the rifling. They have a very long throat.

Does your bolt serial number match your receiver serial number......???

Andrew Leigh
January 25, 2013, 12:53 AM
By "real" Float Pilot I assume you mean original and earlier models?

I have a CZ550 and the 140gr. SGK reaches the lands, never tried a 160gr. and probably won't as that weight belongs in my 30-06. Would be curious whether a 160gr. would chamber in my rifle!

Float Pilot
January 25, 2013, 03:44 AM
A CZ 550 is Czech, not Swedish...
ergo I am speaking about the Swedish Mausers ( m/94, m/96 and m/38 ) Even the Husqvarna sporting rifles in 6.5x55mm have a super long throat.

The 160 grain Round Nose bullets (and the 156 grain Norma's) are actually shorter than many if the lighter boat-tails.

I have a CG-63 target Rifle that has a Schultz and Larsen 1 in 9 inch twist barrel . ( The m/94's m/96s and m/38s all had a 1 in 200mm twist rate and the regular issue CG-63 had a 1 in 220mm twist rate)
My 1 in 9 twist CG-63 will not stabilize the 142 grain Sierra Boat-Tail bullets. But it will shoot the shorter 160 grain round nose bullets just fine.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163582&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1335655924

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163582&d=1335655924

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=178350&stc=1&d=1359103558

Andrew Leigh
January 25, 2013, 03:52 AM
A CZ 550 is Czech, not Swedish...
ergo I am speaking about the Swedish Mausers ( m/94, m/96 and m/38 ) Even the Husqvarna sporting rifles in 6.5x55mm have a super long throat.

The 160 grain Round Nose bullets (and the 156 grain Norma's) are actually shorter than many if the lighter boat-tails.

I have a CG-63 target Rifle that has a Schultz and Larsen 1 in 9 inch twist barrel . ( The m/94's m/96s and m/38s all had a 1 in 200mm twist rate and the regular issue CG-63 had a 1 in 220mm twist rate)
My 1 in 9 twist CG-63 will not stabilize the 142 grain Sierra Boat-Tail bullets. But it will shoot the shorter 160 grain round nose bullets just fine.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163582&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1335655924

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163582&d=1335655924

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=178350&stc=1&d=1359103558
Hi, thanks for the reply.

OK so I am learning here. When I bought the rifle I assumed that as the calibre was a "Swedish Mauser", that the chamber, leade etc. would have been cut to the old specification. So although technically the same in terms of the physical round dimensions, the rest is not. That will probably explain the 1:9 twist rather than the 1:8.

I would have bitterly dissapointed if I wanted to chase 160gr. bullets down the barrel. As it stands the max I load is 140gr. SGK which give 0.6MOA so I think that will be fine.

Is that about the way you see it as well Float Pilot?

Thanks
Andrew

Float Pilot
January 25, 2013, 04:07 AM
What time is it in Jo-Burg ? It is midnight here.... I was just finishing some 18 year old Scotch with a splash of Drambuie mixed into it.... Before bed...

Your 1 in 9 twist might shoot the 156 to 160 grain bullets just fine. They are only 1.262 inches long. They work well on larger game. The Hornady 160 grain has always been affordable, But I am not sure they are still making them....
The Norma 156 grain round nose is a super tough bullet but rather costly.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=178351&stc=1&d=1359104736

Andrew Leigh
January 25, 2013, 04:13 AM
Thanks,

it is 11:10, bit early for a good 18yr scotch. We finish work today at 14:00. Then going to load up some very tame 120's in the 6.5. Tomorrow take my grandbuddies on their first shoot. A friend is taking his .22 and his .243 so we are going to steadily move them up through the calibre's through to 6.5 if possible as the rifle is purpose bought for them to grow into. The are 9, 13 and 15. Hope the little guy copes as he is very slight but a toughie. I am actually quiet excited.

Well that little cocktail should see you sleeping well, have a great weekend and goodnight.

Float Pilot
January 25, 2013, 04:24 AM
I bride of many seasons uses a m/94 Swedish Carbine when she competes in Mauser Matches. I loaded some moderate loads using 85 grain 6.5mm Bullets. They have very little recoil. I have used the same loads with a couple of our grand-kids and they seem to like it...
I can not find the load data right now,,, I am not sure if it is because of my new computer or the Scotch....

Speaking of Swedes in Afrika Sud.....

http://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/boer-units/1955-scandinavian-corps?start=1

Andrew Leigh
January 25, 2013, 05:52 AM
Nice link thanks for posting. Was not aware that the site existed.

Xeon64
January 28, 2013, 03:46 PM
Deer Season just ended and I can get back on the computer. @Float Pilot, my Mauser has all matching serial numbers. This week end I shot my Mauser again. Same load as previously mentioned 42 grains of RL-22 with a 140 grain Nosler. No primer blows this time. I fired two shots. One the primer was flat. The other the primer was flat and there was a metal bur around the dent the firing pin made on the primer and the bolt was hard to open. Still signs of excessive pressure. I pulled the bullets on my remaining rounds and all had a 42 grain powder charge. My question is this. I am using CCI BR primers. The BR stands for Bench Rest. I am wonder if the primers are what is causing the excessive pressure. I am going to bump down to 40 grains of RL-22 and see.

Float Pilot
January 28, 2013, 03:56 PM
the CCI BR-2 primers are fairly mild...

It would be interesting to see what you are obtaining for velocity.....

Another thought... is your chamber area oily? Or do you have case re-sizing lube on your cases ?? Either will cause your rifle to act like it has a head-space problem.

Maybe you should try another powder with a mild load.....

This is so weird.....

Xeon64
January 28, 2013, 04:01 PM
Chamber is clean. I just cleaned it before going out. Funny thing is that after I shot my two reloaded rounds I shot two 1986 Military surplus rounds and two hornady super performance rounds. No sign of excessive pressure. I was going to get my gun head spaced but none of the gun smiths around me have the tool for a 6.5x55.

Andrew Leigh
January 29, 2013, 02:00 AM
We have explored a bunch of stuff, humour me on this one.

Headspace.
It would appear as if factory ammo is fine in your rifle, the current load you have is not excessive in my opinion so that leaves precious few avenues apart from the ones already discussed.

Before dropping the load or loading up anything else could you try this;
- Remove the firing pin from your bolt to reduce the camming pressure. This is important as the pressure required to cam the bolt will mask the pressure of possible other interferences.
- Chamber a factory round and slowly cam the bolt closed taking note of the pressure required.
- Now take a trimmed sized case, not fire-formed and blacken the shoulder area with a sharpie and repeat the exercise taking note of the pressure. Check the blackend area for signs of interference.
- If the pressure increases you are probably bringing the shoulder of the case to bear on the shoulder of the chamber which is not a good thing.
- If there is pressure then reset your sizing die and bump the shoulder back until there is no pressure on camming the bolt over. Do this in very small increments lest you buckle your case.
- Try your current load and look for sign of pressure.

You ideally want 0.001" between the case should and the chamber shoulder. To measure this accurately there are cheap devices to measure the headspace to the datum line on your cartridge case. They fasten to vernier calipers and allow you to measure and set up your die for the correct headspace.

Let us know how you progress.

Xeon64
January 29, 2013, 12:15 PM
I will have to try this. There is a gun smith near me that may have the tools to head space my gun. I will see if he can help as well.

Float Pilot
January 29, 2013, 05:15 PM
It is something you are doing.....

1. Are you super sure that you are not bumping back your case shoulder ?

2. ALSO are you sure you did not goof and buy some bullets for the 6.5 Carcano... They are a little larger in diameter. They are .268 instead of .264.... I know it sounds weird but one guy accidently bought one box of those when he grabbed several other bullet boxes off the shelf....

3. How hard or easy is it for you to seat your primers? A loose primer pocket will let the primer blow out even at lower pressures and cause some bolt opening problems.

4. Undersized US made 6.5x55mm Brass will eventually stretch since the case head is undersized from the get-go. See the photo I added below the cartridge diagram... You can see the shiny spot where the Winchester brass is stretching. because it is so undersized it must move a long way to grab the sides of the chamber during firing.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=178698&stc=1&d=1359497512



All it takes is for you to have a set of dies that are a little less deep than others and whammy, a shortened shoulder area that will act the same as an improper headspace.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=176994&d=1357094678

NCsmitty
January 29, 2013, 08:47 PM
Xeon64, not being a wiseguy, but have you checked the zero on your powder scale? If factory ammo works well, then it's likely it's something that you're doing that is causing these issues. In my experience, a true 42gr charge of Rel-22 will give neither too high pressure, or too low pressure in a sound Swede Mauser.
Your description sounds like excessive pressures initially, but smoking down the case into the shoulder is a symptom of low pressure when the case fails to obdurate enough to the chamber to seal the case to the powder's ignition.
Flattened primers can be caused by different things, and doesn't always indicate a high pressure situation.


NCsmitty

Xeon64
January 29, 2013, 09:31 PM
I am using a digital Frankfort Arsenal Scale. I work in a lab. I brought my scale in and tested it against one of our very expensive lab scales. It was almost as good as the lab scale. Off by a a few thousandths here and there on the upper end of weight and dead on at the lower end.

Xeon64
January 29, 2013, 09:34 PM
M41, 1986 Military measurements. Fired and Unfired. Others to come soon.

Xeon64
January 29, 2013, 10:12 PM
Hornady Brass.

Xeon64
January 29, 2013, 10:23 PM
Primers are easy to seat but I am using a Lee Ram Prime. my bullets are .264.

One thing to note. When I resize my brass with the full length die they come out longer than when they went in. They go in a 2.165 and come out at 2.70. But when I trim the case they are at spec. Could this bump the shoulder back? I followed Lee's instruction for the die. They said to make sure that not light could be see between the bottom of the die and the bullet seat.

Float Pilot
January 29, 2013, 10:43 PM
yeap, they stretch when they are resized... PARTICULARY undersized U.S. made brass. The only 6.5x55mm brass that is even more goofy is the PMC junk....
Notice how the military brass did not stretch much via firing but your Hornady loads really swelled up......

That is Why LAPUA or Norma brass will last 15 reloads and US made stuff will last 5.
Privi- brass will go 8 to 10 loads.

You missed a measurement for the top of the shoulder on one drawing.

I do not bottom out my dies. In this case, this may be your problem.....

Is the Hornady brass drawing one of your hand-loads or factory...?????

We need to see the measurements on your hand-loads before being fired....

My first guess would be to back off your dies a couple turns.

Andrew Leigh
January 29, 2013, 11:31 PM
Primers are easy to seat but I am using a Lee Ram Prime. my bullets are .264.

One thing to note. When I resize my brass with the full length die they come out longer than when they went in. They go in a 2.165 and come out at 2.70. But when I trim the case they are at spec. Could this bump the shoulder back? I followed Lee's instruction for the die. They said to make sure that not light could be see between the bottom of the die and the bullet seat.

Do you lube the inside of your case neck to minimise stretch?

Any feed back on the chambering exercise with the firing pin removed.

Xeon64
January 30, 2013, 10:36 AM
@ Float Point. The Hornady drawing is a factory load. Attached is drawing with the measurements of my reloaded measurements. @ Andrew. I only lube the outside of the case. I have not had a chance to try the chamber exercise yet.

I am starting to think that case length is the problem. All of the factory ammo I have measured for case length measured between 2.156 - 2.158 in including the military ammo. Fire formed and resized trimmed ammo all measure 2.165. That is almost one tenth difference in length. I am thinking that the 2.165 length is too tight for my chamber. I read that there is supposed to be a .001 gap between the shoulder of the case and the chamber. So if my cases are the same exact size as the reloaded ammo it might be too tight.

Would it be a good Idea to resize my brass to factory length of 2.156-2.158.

Float Pilot
January 30, 2013, 12:43 PM
Your trimmed length is TOO LONG. So the brass is trying to share chamber area with your bullet. Thus increasing the pressure. And giving crappy accuracy.

Most books show a trim-to length of 2.155 inches for previously shot brass.

If you reload some of your military brass, you will find that does not grow as much since it is the correct size.

Xeon64
January 30, 2013, 02:15 PM
Funny. My Nosler manual shows 2.165 as the trim length and my 6.5x55 trim gauge only allows me to trim down to 6.5x55. I am going to retry the 42 grains of RL 22, adjust my OAL, and cut the case down to 2.157 and see what happens.

NCsmitty
January 30, 2013, 06:16 PM
2.165 is max length, 2.155 is trim length.
As Float Pilot mentioned, your brass may be running interference beyond the neck of the chamber, and that can cause high pressure because the case cannot release the bullet properly. Perhaps your chamber is to spec or a couple thousands under, but no harm will come if you run your cases a bit shorter, at 2.150-2.155. If you're crimping, though not necessary, then they all need to be the same length, of course.
I'm pretty sure that your M41 brass is berdan primed, and not reloadable without special tooling.


NCsmitty

RentaCop
January 30, 2013, 10:15 PM
I just picked up a stainless Howa 1500 in 6.5x55 with a 1 in 8" twist and 22" barrel. I'm going to use it for some of my deer hunting this year and was wondering what bullets y'all were having good luck with. I am looking for a slight edge toward accuracy and good performance on deer. Any pet loads would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Marty
129gr Hornady and IMR4350 (2770fps avg in my rifle)

I would mention the Sierra 160gr SMP loading w/ IMR7828 (2560fps avg)...but Sierra stopped making it (*flips both middle fingers @ Sierra). I have the Norma 156 Oryx's now. Havent work them up though.

Float Pilot
January 30, 2013, 10:24 PM
I'm pretty sure that your M41 brass is berdan primed, and not reloadable without special tooling.

I think that some of the m/41 ammo made by Norma has boxer primers. I have some around here someplace., But I have seen Berdan as well.

A friend of mine down the road made a jig for his drill press and has figured out how to drill out the Berdan stuff and pop in a boxer primer...

RentaCop
January 30, 2013, 11:15 PM
Funny. My Nosler manual shows 2.165 as the trim length and my 6.5x55 trim gauge only allows me to trim down to 6.5x55. I am going to retry the 42 grains of RL 22, adjust my OAL, and cut the case down to 2.157 and see what happens.
Ive always used 2.155

Andrew Leigh
January 31, 2013, 12:32 AM
@ Float Point. The Hornady drawing is a factory load. Attached is drawing with the measurements of my reloaded measurements. @ Andrew. I only lube the outside of the case. I have not had a chance to try the chamber exercise yet.

I am starting to think that case length is the problem. All of the factory ammo I have measured for case length measured between 2.156 - 2.158 in including the military ammo. Fire formed and resized trimmed ammo all measure 2.165. That is almost one tenth difference in length. I am thinking that the 2.165 length is too tight for my chamber. I read that there is supposed to be a .001 gap between the shoulder of the case and the chamber. So if my cases are the same exact size as the reloaded ammo it might be too tight.

Would it be a good Idea to resize my brass to factory length of 2.156-2.158.
You should lube the inside of the neck, running it dry will pull back too hard on the brass and may be overextending it, it may also possibly accelerate the wear of the expander ball. Take a soft nylon brush of the correct caliber and use this to pass through the neck with a lick of lubricant. If you have Rockchucker then screw the brush into the hole used by the primer arm, this arrangement works a treat.

You will also find your upstroke more agreeable.

Float Pilot
January 31, 2013, 02:13 AM
You will also find your upstroke more agreeable.

Ahh, reminds me of a Lass I met in Newcastle on Tyne..

Andrew are you talking about dry graphite ?

Andrew Leigh
January 31, 2013, 02:18 AM
Ahh, reminds me of a Lass I met in Newcastle on Tyne..
:D:evil:

You can use dry graphite and I know a lot of people who do. I use the same lube as for the outside of the case, as I untrasonically clean afterwards so it makes no difference if the lube is wet or dry.

Are you an Englishman in Alaska?

Float Pilot
January 31, 2013, 02:48 AM
Heavens No...
The Scots side of the family came here (Virginia and Barbados ) in the early 1600s. The direct line were mariners who sailed from part of London which was called Little Scotland back around 1605-1610. One of them was captured by the Spanish in 1611 and after four years of the inquisition he was traded back. The Old Virginia company paid off his family with land in the new world...
Over the next 400 years in North America they intermarried with other Scots, Welch and a few English. Plus a few Germans and Dutch (the Boer connection) ..
Uncle Sam and NATO sent me to Newcastle a couple times, plus 45 other countries over time.

I find that my use of Lapua brass helps reduce the brass being over-worked by the re-sizing process. Plus I toss my brass into a vibrating cleaner over night before I re-size.
After depriming and trimming, I soak them in Coca-Cola for a few hours. (It eats away the carbon) Then I rinse them with boiling water and let them dry in a metal strainer on top of my wood-stove overnight.

My lovely bride of many years finds the whole mess somewhat disconcerting...

I should really buy an ultra-sonic cleaner.

Well my Frau from Unterfranken " Bayern " is calling me to bed...As only a German can... Time to sign off....

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