more guns or ammo??


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old fart
October 22, 2012, 01:00 PM
i am asking this question so i may show a friend the answers. this has been a tough year on my household. at the beginning of this year i had 14 guns total from 22 lr rifles to 12 gauge shotguns and 308 rifles and 357 handguns and 22lr handguns. i now have 1 handgun 22 lr, a deer shotgun, and a turkey shotgun and 1 22lr rifle. i sold most to pay bills and with any money left over i bought ammo. i have been buying ammo for several months, my idea is that if obama gets elected ammo will be the first thing attacked. and if romney wins i can save for another gun. my friend has been buying guns, as many as his money allows. he has 18 guns now total, he only had 6 a few months ago. he says guns will one day be unbuyable and ammo can wait. he has less than 2 boxes of 12 gauge ammo but has 4 guns, he has less than one box of 357 but 2 handguns he has 1 box of 30-30 but 4 guns, he has about 200rds of 22lr but has 8 guns from long to hand. i do want to plan on getting some of my guns back again if things get better but for now i'm gonna buy ammo for what i have. he says that ammo can wait and says there is time to get ammo. so what would ya'll do is this situation?, my and his income at this time gives us about $50-75 a week to spend. thanks

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tyeo098
October 22, 2012, 01:01 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9efy9oiYG1rum9t0.jpg

captain awesome
October 22, 2012, 01:06 PM
To be honest I don't think you need to worry about it. Obama has said he is interested in renewing the Assault Weapons Ban (which is more of just limiting magazine capacity than anything else is my understanding), but it wont be for quite a while, and that is only if he can get congressional support, which he likely wont.

Now, what the American public does, is a different thing entirely. I personally hope we have learned our lesson and aren't going to create another panic buy on ammo and components if Obama gets reelected, but that will remain to be seen. In their scared rush they allowed price gouging to happen to us and now we pay unreasonable prices for everything having to do with ammo, and unfortunately things will never be the same. We have hurt ourselves far more than Obama has.

So, by all means, stock up, but stock up on what you personally feel is necessary for you and your family, just don't get crazy with it.


On another note, wouldn't it be something if NO ONE bought any ammo or components for a couple weeks to a month? I bet you would see prices drop to what they were before the 2008/2009 shortages very quickly. To bad the shooting public will never combine forces to do this. If the NRA organized it we might have a shot, but they never will.

silicosys4
October 22, 2012, 01:54 PM
Start stocking up on reloading supplies, if you are truly worried about availability of ammo in the future.

Ebay and gunshows are a great resource for cheap reloading supplies.

ArmisteadArmory
October 22, 2012, 02:11 PM
I think it depends on your time horizon. I have my grandpa's 22lr, built in 1947, and it still shoots flawlessly. I wouldn't think ammo that old would be so reliable regardless of how well it was kept. So if you're thinking about things that may be banned in the near future, I'd have to think about assault rifles and high cap magazines. Five years from now who knows what the ammo market may look like, but silicosys4 is right reloading is always something you can take advantage of.

Apachedriver
October 22, 2012, 02:12 PM
Obama has said he is interested in renewing the Assault Weapons Ban (which is more of just limiting magazine capacity than anything else is my understanding), but it wont be for quite a while, and that is only if he can get congressional support, which he likely wont.

The last AWB, and the ones attempted since, restricted a lot more than just magazine capacity. I don't have the links handy but a quick internet search should pull it up easily.

Also, if Congress passed Obamacare while advertising "you must pass it to know what's in it", I don't have a lot of confidence in their willingness to prevent another AWB in the future.

Also, there's been (what might be perceived as) an ongoing attack on ammunition from many other directions than just mag cap limiting, i.e. the EPA, et al.

I certainly hope we don't get a panic going again in the market. It wouldn't happen if people would just quit waiting until the perceived "end" to buy things they feel the need.

hso
October 22, 2012, 02:39 PM
A firearm without ammunition is just a paperweight.

Once you have a couple of boxes set back for every caliber it becomes a question of why you're buying ammunition.

If you shoot a lot then having a case saves running to the store every time you go to the range.

If you're worried about ammunition availability then you need to save enough to purchase a case so that you can get the lowest per round price.

If you think there's going to be some sort of ban, relax.

mgmorden
October 22, 2012, 03:25 PM
I'd stock up on guns if you're worried. Realistically, ammo prices might go up some, but ammo itself will still be available well into the future in just about any chambering you want. Ammo bans if they ever come to pass are at least a decade or more in the future.

On the other hand, a new AWB will likely fix the "holes" in the previous legislation. For one, all previously reintroduced versions have not attacked guns based on features like the prior one did - it do so by both features and names. So while you could get a flat-top AR15 with 10-round mags during the previous ban, I'd expect AR15's to simply be banned by name - completely - if a new ones passes. If it does you'll likely see prices on those weapons gravitate ever upwards.

Also, I'd wager that if they do get another one through, it will almost certainly NOT have a sunset clause. The next one will be permanent, so standard capacity mags (because I refuse to call them "high" capacity when almost all handguns have 14-17 rounds as their standard capacity) may have the same fate.

W.E.G.
October 22, 2012, 03:31 PM
Most people have only a modest supply of ammo.

Some people have an AMAZING supply of ammo (and components, and tools, and shooting-related paraphernalia).

One day you will have to move.
Ask yourself whether you REALLY want to move 300 cans of ammo, and all the other assorted stuff.
Wanting more, and the ability to get more, does not necessarily mean that ACQUIRING more makes any rational sense.

Oh, and the commercial movers will NOT move your guns and ammo collection.

Halal Pork
October 22, 2012, 03:41 PM
If I have guns and no ammo, and I have to choose between buying some ammo or more guns, I'd go with ammo. At current prices, I don't think it is a great idea to back the truck up though. You ought to add ammo here and there until you think you have a basic supply built up. The quantity is going to depend on what you determine you need as I don't think there is any good rule of thumb on this. At least have enough, whatever "enough" is for you.

Warp
October 22, 2012, 03:43 PM
I would be more than happy to have to move a lot of ammo. It means I have it.

And I have moved, and had to move a decent amount of ammo. (well, decent depending on whose standards you use, a drop in the bucket compared to some)

At first I would want 1 reliable handgun with at least 100 rounds that it was proven reliable with. Then spare parts for the handgun, or a backup/spare handgun.

Then I would want 1 reliable rifle and at least 100 rounds that it was proven reliable with. Then spare parts, backup, etc to the rifle.

Then I would want at least a case of ammo for each.

Rinse and repeat, but with more ammo each time.

bannockburn
October 22, 2012, 03:44 PM
In the near future, if a certain someone is reelected, I could see some sort of bill being passed that would limit ammunition sales and/or its components. They could use any number of reasons; anti-terrorism, health concerns, environmental issues, etc., to get something like that through while skirting the issue of the 2nd Amendment. It would probably be more likely to pass than a prolonged fight over another assault weapon ban.

I would say stock up on ammo and/or reloading components and supplies as you are best able to with your financial situation. Having a gun with no ammo for it is like owning a car with no gas in it.

holdencm9
October 22, 2012, 05:03 PM
Here is a formula I just made up now, that you can use to determine how many rounds you should have stored for rainy days.

Total Rounds = 100n + 500p + 3m(n+p)(1+2*sqrt(C/100))

m = monthly round count, you shoot, on average, per gun
n = number of non-.22 cal guns you have
p = number of .22 cal "plinkers" you have
C = Concern Coefficient, in percent...100 if you are sure something bad and world-changing is about to happen any day now, 0 if you have absolutely no concerns about the state of the world whatsoever. This is THR so I'll leave it at that. :)

The factors are saying that, for any gun, you should have a bare minimum of 100 rounds, unless it is a .22, in which case the bare minimum is 500. My thought process is that you can easily burn through that amount of ammo in one or two range trips. The rest is basically, 3 months' supply of what you usually shoot, set aside for hard times, multiplied by a factor that varies from 1 to 3, depending on your concerns on the socio-political landscape. Enjoy!

22-rimfire
October 22, 2012, 05:24 PM
Sorry to hear about your bad year. I think having some ammunition for the firearms you own is a good thing. How much depends on how much you shoot. So the amount depends on your situation. I'd start with a couple boxes of each caliber/gauge and see how it goes from there.

Can't see the future no matter who wins the presidency. I don't think you will see another AWB anytime soon as that requires support from Congress in two houses.

HoosierQ
October 22, 2012, 05:31 PM
Well what's going to happen is this. Everybody on this board hates the current administration and is afraid it will get re-elected and ban everything except whatever. Others think the contender has a record of banning stuff (which he does) so, bottom line, IF...and I do mean IF...people here are any indication of the gun owning public in general, probably at some point maybe somebody is going to panic. If they do panic, access to ammo will be more acutely affected than firearms themselves. Some people hoard ammo not because they think the end if near but simply want to stay in the game when those that do fear the end buy it all up out from under them. A vicious circle...perfectly rational people hoarding so as not to be impacted by hoarders.

So, in times like these, if you gotta buy something, buy ammo.

KansasSasquatch
October 22, 2012, 05:33 PM
I don't think there's any reason for a panic on guns or ammo this election cycle. The House is unlikely to pass anything restricting guns or ammo. The Senate is pretty well split even if there are no changes. The President, whoever that ends up being wont be able to change much without working both sides of the fence. A buying frenzy isn't warranted in my honest opinion. But I'm also slowly saving up to purchase reloading components in very high quantities, but mainly just because it will drop the cost of reloading even further for me.

pharmer
October 22, 2012, 05:45 PM
It's prudent to be prepared. If there is a re-election, I don't think you can adequately prepare for the consequences. If there is a Romney administration you can figure everything staying the same, maybe higher prices. Not as a political consequence but as an ever increasing price reality, like gasoline. Joe

Elmer
October 22, 2012, 07:10 PM
The "panic" is already in full swing. In talking to people in the industry, ammunition is backordered for a good year or so on some loads. A lot of the distributors have stocked up, so it'll be interesting to see what the next couple of months bring.

I think most of us that got caught short, or without everything we wanted during the last bans, or even panics, aren't taking any chances. When I look and see what I paid for the cases of ammo sitting on the shelves in the garage, I smile all the way to the range.

Elmer
October 22, 2012, 07:13 PM
I don't think there's any reason for a panic on guns or ammo this election cycle. The House is unlikely to pass anything restricting guns or ammo. The Senate is pretty well split even if there are no changes. The President, whoever that ends up being wont be able to change much without working both sides of the fence.

A lot of folks felt the same way in 1994. Turned out a little differently.

Warp
October 22, 2012, 07:15 PM
ammunition is backordered for a good year or so on some loads.

Like what?

orionengnr
October 22, 2012, 09:20 PM
Obama has said he is interested in renewing the Assault Weapons Ban (which is more of just limiting magazine capacity than anything else is my understanding), but it wont be for quite a while, and that is only if he can get congressional support, which he likely wont.
I think you are overlooking a "certain someone's" penchant for Executive Orders...thereby bypassing Congress entirely.

It's not as if he would need to fear the wrath of the electorate...

Fishslayer
October 22, 2012, 09:30 PM
If you think there's going to be some sort of ban, relax.

There may not be an outright ban, but we've already seen where they're going here in The People's Republik. They tried to ban internet ammo sales, require thumbprint for handgun ammo, EPA tried to outlaw lead... any of those would have significantly increased the price of ammo. Stores like Walmart may have stopped selling it altogether.

Thankfully they got overturned in the courts.... this time. They are working on it again. There is also talk of "bullet taxes." For the chi'drin, of course.

They're on the right track with their agenda. Make ammo too expensive to buy and you have a law abiding populace armed with paperweights. A nifty way to get around that pesky ol' Constitution.

Susanna
October 22, 2012, 09:44 PM
Using Holden's Formula ( i LOVE that, thanks!) I would stock sufficient ammo in the calibers you have first, then increase your firearms holdings -and- subsequentially your ammo holdings... The only reason to get arms when you're short ammo is (1) you don't have a caliber or firearm you or your family consider essential, or (2) you fear or know that an arm you need for your personal armory will soon cease to be available...

Along this line... ANY detachable magazine fed firearm needs to have a priority not only in AMMO but MAGAZINES... what good is that cherry Garand if you are missing the clips to use it to make your kitten purr? Remember, SOME states have already banned some mags that THEY deem you don't need that many rounds... Even a "throwaway" like a S&W 915 (please don't be offended, I have one of these workhorse smiths!) is only as good as 10 in California... move to CA for a while, and see if you like short-load mags forced on you... MY bet is they will kill all mags, then EVERYTHING is a single shot. Something to think about... hopefully while you can still choose...

old fart
October 22, 2012, 09:56 PM
with all the shootings going on in this country in the past few months, no matter who is elected they will face pressure to do something. and with the senate and congress elections soon they too will be facing pressure to do something. i will continue to buy ammo but may put a little back for a gun in the future, ammo isn't protected and that will be the first thing the anti's will go after. thanks

Fishslayer
October 22, 2012, 10:11 PM
MY bet is they will kill all mags, then EVERYTHING is a single shot. Something to think about... hopefully while you can still choose...

This actually affected my selection when picking my semiauto centerfire rifle platform. Detachable mag rifles with a pistol grip require a mag lock here. (Google "bullet button."). And 10 round maximimum.

I went SKS with strippers. ;)

Warp
October 22, 2012, 10:15 PM
with all the shootings going on in this country in the past few months, no matter who is elected they will face pressure to do something. and with the senate and congress elections soon they too will be facing pressure to do something. i will continue to buy ammo but may put a little back for a gun in the future, ammo isn't protected and that will be the first thing the anti's will go after. thanks

Would you mind listing them? I don't see how there have been a whole bunch...?

Ignition Override
October 23, 2012, 01:50 AM
Imagine the price of our all-American Remington and Winchester .303 ammo if there were a large tariff on reloadable Boxer-primed ammo from countries such as Serbia (any country), i.e. Prvi Partizan.
K-31 guys use GP-11 from der Schweiz, and we have hordes of MN shooters choosing various imported 7.62x54R etc.

It might be a good while before the US decides to join the UN Small Arms Treaty, if ever.
But in the case where the US decides to 'jump onboard', isn't imported ammo at risk of either a cost increase or a prohibition?

Maybe a future Supreme Court Appointee will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and most of my preferred ammo is imported.
The SKS and Enfields etc will still be here. And even if none of these events come to pass, ammo will still not get any cheaper...
just the value of the US dollar.

holdencm9
October 23, 2012, 10:45 AM
Using Holden's Formula ( i LOVE that, thanks!) I would stock sufficient ammo in the calibers you have first, then increase your firearms holdings -and- subsequentially your ammo holdings... The only reason to get arms when you're short ammo is (1) you don't have a caliber or firearm you or your family consider essential, or (2) you fear or know that an arm you need for your personal armory will soon cease to be available...

Along this line... ANY detachable magazine fed firearm needs to have a priority not only in AMMO but MAGAZINES... what good is that cherry Garand if you are missing the clips to use it to make your kitten purr? Remember, SOME states have already banned some mags that THEY deem you don't need that many rounds... Even a "throwaway" like a S&W 915 (please don't be offended, I have one of these workhorse smiths!) is only as good as 10 in California... move to CA for a while, and see if you like short-load mags forced on you... MY bet is they will kill all mags, then EVERYTHING is a single shot. Something to think about... hopefully while you can still choose...

Glad you liked it, but I think I need to amend it. Or clarify rather that m is the monthly round count through each gun, not total. Otherwise you get hammered a bit too hard! I just did the calc for my n centerfires and p .22's and figure I shoot about 100 rounds on average through each one a month (obviously I shoot a lot more through some...but some kinda just sit more than others) and about a 20% "concern" for significant legislation or scenarios where I'd want a ton more. And I came up with something a bit more than what I do have, but not by much.

The other thing is you don't have to go out one day and buy it all at once. Ordering in bulk helps, but what I did for the longest time, was every time I went shooting, I'd buy 4 boxes of ammo, shoot 3 and save 1. It eventually adds up to a nice little reserve. Again I am not so concerned about SHTF or anything, but if there is another panic, I am glad I have a few thousand rounds of ammo stocked up to get me through it.

And I wholeheartedly agree about the mags. At least 5 mags for each gun is a good rule of thumb....I actually need to buy a few more but it is tough when some mags cost upwards of $40 even online.

old fart
October 23, 2012, 11:32 AM
Would you mind listing them? I don't see how there have been a whole bunch...?
i couldn't remember all in my head so i looked online, here are just what i found in a short time. Feb.- OHIO, April-OK., July-CO., Aug-WIS,N.Y.,ILL., Sept.-MINN., Oct.- WIS., MI.

W.E.G.
October 23, 2012, 12:00 PM
I would be more than happy to have to move a lot of ammo. It means I have it.

When the move exceeds 100 cans, and nearly as many firearms, and god-only-knows how much reloading components, tools, and shooting outfits, you will find yourself asking: "What was I thinking?"

Especially if the "gun stuff" task takes an entire day just for an across-town move, and you have to enlist your significant other to assist in the inventory and labor.

Certaindeaf
October 23, 2012, 12:16 PM
^
Boohoo! Good thing it's not quadruple the weight in gold or you'd really gripe. lolz

David E
October 23, 2012, 12:28 PM
It might be a good while before the US decides to join the UN Small Arms Treaty, if ever.


Political pundit Dick Morris (www.dickmorris.com) says its nearly a certainty during the upcoming the lame duck session. He explains it well on his site.

David E
October 23, 2012, 01:35 PM
Given the guns the OP has now, the concerns he has and money being tight, I'd buy an AR lower ($89 or less) or three, then a used Glock 17 or Ruger P95 or S&W 5906 (($250-$350) and a minimum 12 magazines each for the AR and handgun.

I'd also buy a box or two of ammo every other trip to Walmart.

Certaindeaf
October 23, 2012, 01:43 PM
If I only had one gun it'd be a fairly powerful and accurate full-size semi-auto pistol. I see you don't have any sort of centerfire handgun. One can do with it about all that your guns can do (kill small to medium size game) but none of your guns can do what it can do.. be on your person at all times and still do the aforementioned.

huntsman
October 23, 2012, 01:48 PM
more guns or ammo??

I don't think either you or the friend are wrong or right, your plan is more along the lines of what I'm doing but I’ve just about got all the guns I want and at 53 I’m trying to make sure I can continue to shoot what I have regardless of future laws or costs.

Warp
October 23, 2012, 02:30 PM
i couldn't remember all in my head so i looked online, here are just what i found in a short time. Feb.- OHIO, April-OK., July-CO., Aug-WIS,N.Y.,ILL., Sept.-MINN., Oct.- WIS., MI.

I don't recognize most of these as anything at all

Reloadron
October 23, 2012, 02:41 PM
You buy what you can afford to buy. As to guns or ammunition? That depends totally on your own situation and circumstances. Sorry you had a bad year but beanies and weenies come first when you have a family so you do what you have to do to make ends meet.

Ron

doc2rn
October 23, 2012, 02:55 PM
Goin with the majority and saying AMMO!

Apachedriver
October 23, 2012, 03:55 PM
I don't recognize most of these as anything at all

The thing is, it's not what you recognize these to be as much as what the media makes it out to be to the rest of the country.

Warp
October 23, 2012, 04:38 PM
The thing is, it's not what you recognize these to be as much as what the media makes it out to be to the rest of the country.

I don't recognize many of them at all.

So far as I can tell you made a claim and you have presented absolutely nothing to support it.

Please tell me you aren't listing the New York incident where one individual tracked down and murdered one other individual over a personal vendetta...

Apachedriver
October 23, 2012, 05:33 PM
So far as I can tell you made a claim and you have presented absolutely nothing to support it.

Slow your roll.

I didn't make a claim about anything. I injected an opinion about the media's roll in playing anything up that is gun-related regardless of circumstances.

You have me mixed up with old fart.

Warp
October 23, 2012, 05:39 PM
Slow your roll.

I didn't make a claim about anything. I injected an opinion about the media's roll in playing anything up that is gun-related regardless of circumstances.

You have me mixed up with old fart.

ugh

My apologies, then. The lack of avatars + the lack of a real quote system makes it easy for that happen. At least for me.

Fishslayer
October 23, 2012, 05:43 PM
ugh

My apologies, then. The lack of avatars + the lack of a real quote system makes it easy for that happen. At least for me.

Click on the little quill & page at the bottom right.
Check the "Quote message in reply?" box at bottom left
Click "Go Advanced"

"Voila'!" Kind of unwieldy but quotes can be done.

Warp
October 23, 2012, 05:54 PM
Fishslayer, that is how I do it. But sometimes it doesn't quote and I have to go back, and you can't multi quote. It's really kind of a PITA

old fart
October 23, 2012, 06:48 PM
i just googled (shootings in 2012) it popped up as mass shootings, i do agree the media will always make it bigger than the real story. but any time someone is gunned down its one too many, and it bothers me that a few of these shooters were everyday law abiding citizens until that day. but all the politicians will here is mass shooting and will be pressured in doing something to show that they care for the victims and must prove it. don't get me wrong, i'm as strong of supporter of the 2nd amendment as anyone and a member of the nra. i am worried though because if a run on ammo happens again, while we wait for supply's to replenish laws could get passed that will make it harder to get even if we have the money. thanks

Warp
October 23, 2012, 06:49 PM
but all the politicians will here is mass shooting and will be pressured in doing something to show that they care for the victims and must prove it.

The politicians will not hear "mass shooting" for one individual killing one other individual he has a vendetta against.

The-Reaver
October 23, 2012, 06:52 PM
Have 20+

Ammo is all I need now.

old fart
October 23, 2012, 07:37 PM
The politicians will not hear "mass shooting" for one individual killing one other individual he has a vendetta against.
mabe not, but if the shooter was legally able to own a gun before the shooting it will not look good for the rest of us legal gun owners. if more law abiding citizens go off the deep end and shoot someone, its going to hurt the arguement we have been trying to get out to everyone, that new gun laws only hurt the law abiding citizen and not the criminal. thanks

sirgilligan
October 23, 2012, 07:39 PM
Skimmed the replies, didn't read them in detail.

There are many factors that can make the availability of either a firearm or ammo scarce.
Here is my opinion on the rifles one should have:
.22LR
.30-06

With those two you can hunt efficiently and take down anything you want.
(A .308, .270, etc., to me essentially fill the same role as a .30-06).

In the hand gun department I recommend any one of the following:
9mm
40 S&W
.357 Magnum

Doesn't matter which brand, etc., you pick.

A firearm without ammo is, like has been stated, a paper weight, in that it doesn't serve its purpose.

.30-06, 100 rounds of quality hunting ammo. I am thinking 165 Grain at least.
Pistol, 500 rounds of quality ammo.
.22LR, 1000 rounds.

Also, everyone should have a 12 gauge shotgun. A variety of shells, some for dove sized birds, some for pheasant, some for rabbit, some for self defense, and if you don't have the .30-06, some slugs too.

War time could put such a burden on ammo supply that it is impossible to get an for the civilian market.

Possible laws to make ammo difficult to acquire will be challenged to show if such laws infringe on the right to keep and bear arms. This depends on the Supreme Court.

If one imagines the worst, cuts that in half, and prepares for that, you will be more prepared than most.

Buying guns and ammo as an investment is an individual preference. While you typically don't loose money it is difficult to make any as well, but if inflation is the issue, then hard goods are good to have.

I pray that my guns and ammo will continue to be for home defense and pleasure shooting and nothing more. Good friends and neighbors are just as important, maybe more so. Living in a safe place is more important. If you are surrounded by trouble, then get out, move, evacuate, don't wait until a Katrina hits and you are in the middle of a crap storm. Just my opinion.

Trent
October 23, 2012, 07:43 PM
One day you will have to move.
Ask yourself whether you REALLY want to move 300 cans of ammo, and all the other assorted stuff.


Weg, you bring back some painful memories here. :(

By the time I was done moving to my home in 2007, every one of my family members that I rounded up to help... hated me.. and my damn gun /ammo collection.

AABEN
October 23, 2012, 11:09 PM
i am asking this question so i may show a friend the answers. this has been a tough year on my household. at the beginning of this year i had 14 guns total from 22 lr rifles to 12 gauge shotguns and 308 rifles and 357 handguns and 22lr handguns. i now have 1 handgun 22 lr, a deer shotgun, and a turkey shotgun and 1 22lr rifle. i sold most to pay bills and with any money left over i bought ammo. i have been buying ammo for several months, my idea is that if obama gets elected ammo will be the first thing attacked. and if romney wins i can save for another gun. my friend has been buying guns, as many as his money allows. he has 18 guns now total, he only had 6 a few months ago. he says guns will one day be unbuyable and ammo can wait. he has less than 2 boxes of 12 gauge ammo but has 4 guns, he has less than one box of 357 but 2 handguns he has 1 box of 30-30 but 4 guns, he has about 200rds of 22lr but has 8 guns from long to hand. i do want to plan on getting some of my guns back again if things get better but for now i'm gonna buy ammo for what i have. he says that ammo can wait and says there is time to get ammo. so what would ya'll do is this situation?, my and his income at this time gives us about $50-75 a week to spend. thanks
It is always best to have a lot of ammo on hand!! You can put it up in ammo cans to keep it good. Keep it where the temp does not make a big change!

Fishslayer
October 25, 2012, 03:00 AM
Possible laws to make ammo difficult to acquire will be challenged to show if such laws infringe on the right to keep and bear arms. This depends on the Supreme Court.


There are already cities in California that prohibit mail order handgun ammo sales.

We had AB962 that would have done that (among other things) statewide but it was overturned in the courts more for wording than any 2A problems.

MachIVshooter
October 25, 2012, 03:48 AM
Firearms should be purchased based on need/want and available funds. Sounds like the OP may be short on the latter.

Ammunition should be purchased based on the same factors, but also with consideration for use.

I have 3 rifles chambered in 6.5x52mm carcano. I have maybe 200 rounds of that ammo, which will probably last a decade.

I have 3 rifles and 2 pistols chambered in 5.56x45mm, and keep at least 2,000 rounds on hand. If I stopped buying and just shot what I had, I'd be out in a few months.

In short, ignore the silly formulas people come up with (min 1000 rounds per caliber nonsense and the like) and buy according to need and budget. That said, if you can afford more, the stuff certainly isn't going to get cheaper, so stock up.

Queen_of_Thunder
October 25, 2012, 10:04 AM
A firearm without ammunition is just a paperweight.

Once you have a couple of boxes set back for every caliber it becomes a question of why you're buying ammunition.

If you shoot a lot then having a case saves running to the store every time you go to the range.

If you're worried about ammunition availability then you need to save enough to purchase a case so that you can get the lowest per round price.

If you think there's going to be some sort of ban, relax.
You really meant pallet instead of case,right.

camar
October 25, 2012, 05:15 PM
More ammo than guns. Also invest in reloading equipment.

oldbear
October 25, 2012, 07:54 PM
gives us about $50-75 a week to spend. thanks

Put $25.00 of that $50.00 - $75.00 a week in a safe place. Now buy a decent amount of ammo for the weapons you have. Once you have a decent stash of ammo start saving for your next firearm. Only pay cash, no credit cards, as it's to easy to run up a lot more debt than you thought you had.

leadcounsel
October 26, 2012, 12:18 AM
If you buy guns and ammo wisely I doubt you'll ever lose money on it. Guns and ammo tend to either keep pace with inflaction or exceed it, provided well maintained/stored.

Ignition Override
October 27, 2012, 01:42 AM
David E.

My impressions were probably mistaken.
Thanks for the very informative link by Dick Morris. If his statements are accurate, some of the possibilities are very sobering.

Manny
October 27, 2012, 05:57 AM
I have little desire to add weapons to my collection just for the sake of ownership. There are tasks that I deem essential that I need weapons for and shooting interests I like to participate in.
They are:

CCW- A .38 or .357 snubby

Home Defense/Target shooting/plinking- Hi cap 9mm is my choice

Hunting / defensive use - short barreled shotgun w/ sights using slugs & buckshot

Wingshooting/clays - A good target shotgun

Plinking/small game - your choice of .22's, I like Ruger 10/22's

Target/varmint/defensive rifle - An AR properly configured, mine is an RRA national match flattop with a good scope in a qd mount.

For me 6 guns get it done for the essentials, 2 handguns, 2 shotguns & 2 rifles, anything ,beyond is spares or a peripheral interest. Your needs & interests may require more or less. If you have the guns you deem essential then buying additional is unneeded. However I note you only have .22's and shotguns, if you feel no need for anything more I'd start stocking up on ammo. But if you want something more, particularly in a hi-cap semi auto then I would start working to acquire them using the former assault weapons ban as a guideline.

As to ammo, a gun without it is an expensive club. We had a recent object lesson in limited ammo availability after the 2008 election. If Obama is re-elected he's already stated his intent for more gun laws in the second debate so I would expect a very similar happening after this election. I'd be more worried about ammo availability then gun availability for now.

76shuvlinoff
October 27, 2012, 07:30 AM
Over the years I have acquired enough calibers in both long a short firearms that now I casually shop for ammo deals. Life and work have kept me so busy the last few years that recreational shooting is a distant memory. I pick up ammo here and there so when I do get the free time I am going to be able to feed my guilty pleasure.

As far as any possible weapons bans go, threads like these make me think I might oughta pick up a few Pmags .

we are not amused
October 27, 2012, 06:33 PM
If Obama is reelected, I am not too worried about an outright ban. Despite any desires on his part, he will still have to get Congress on board for anything serious, which should gives us plenty of warning of what is coming. Provided Congress has any desire to risk getting burned again.

I would expect him to use his power to write regulations to try and make things more difficult to buy and sell guns and ammo, but I see no reason for panic buying.

Ammunition does however keep for a very long time, and is unlikely, given the cost of lead and copper to go down anytime soon. So some reasonable expenditures are planned for the near future. As are a couple of gun purchases, not based upon whether or not Obama is reelected, but whether I have any money left after paying Property taxes, they went up unexpectedly last year.:cuss:

Ignition Override
October 27, 2012, 07:31 PM
we are not amused:
Even if he gets reelected, if the White House tried to push some AWB through Congress, couldn't this easily reduce the chance that "they" could hold/keep a majority in the Senate?

If so, are they astute enough to avoid such a bill? This could then mean that their only path might be a new "red" appointee to the Supreme Court, and creeping, low-profile changes enacted by the ATF, EPA etc.

Elmer
October 29, 2012, 02:11 PM
Like what?

5.56 stuff mainly.

But like I said, all the distributors have stocked up, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Elmer
October 29, 2012, 02:13 PM
If so, are they astute enough to avoid such a bill? This could then mean that their only path might be a new "red" appointee to the Supreme Court, and creeping, low-profile changes enacted by the ATF, EPA etc.

That's exactly what I would expect. If the climate isn't right for what they/he wants to do, they'll/he'll look for more "creative" ways.

Warp
October 29, 2012, 02:54 PM
5.56 stuff mainly.

But like I said, all the distributors have stocked up, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Can you be more specific?

What loads are on backorder for a year?

Can you tell us even just one specific load that is on backorder for a year?

I'm having a hard time believing that there are multiple loads on a 1+ year backorder.

BTW: Here is the .223/5.56 bulk ammo pile at my LGS:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121026_164527_zps5e802ae8.jpg

zoom6zoom
October 29, 2012, 04:50 PM
Geez, I get uncomfortable when I get down to just one case for any of my most popular calibers....

MIL-DOT
October 29, 2012, 05:32 PM
Click on the little quill & page at the bottom right.
Check the "Quote message in reply?" box at bottom left
Click "Go Advanced"

"Voila'!" Kind of unwieldy but quotes can be done.


THANKS !!! Finally, I've been wondering for friggin' YEARS how you guys were doing that here :D.

Ignition Override
October 29, 2012, 06:33 PM
Warp: Are you sure that you want to post a photo with many cases of ammo?

You know what often happens when we keep seeing such delicious photos.
My wife told me that it is very insidious.

Reloadron
October 29, 2012, 06:46 PM
OMG Warp, looks like my friends shop. He got this bad feeling about ammunition and dropped about $70,000 on ammo. Everything you can imagine. This created a logistics problem even in the large shop. Even the rest room has cases stacked. His thinking is if the prices skyrocket he is in great shape. Personally, while I have a great stash I am not about to deplete one of the 401K accounts to buy boolits! :)

Ron

Warp
October 29, 2012, 07:30 PM
Warp: Are you sure that you want to post a photo with many cases of ammo?

You know what often happens when we keep seeing such delicious photos.
My wife told me that it is very insidious.

Did I mention that there is even more on the other side that doesn't fit on the pallet?

Or that the higher end stuff is on the shelves behind the counter, and not on the pallet?

Or that the gun racks running down the middle of the floor start a couple feet up so that the space underneath can hold many pallets worth of bulk ammo in the other calibers?

justice06rr
October 30, 2012, 05:49 AM
More ammo is what I always say. How are you gonna feed all those mags without any significant amount of ammo?

David E
October 30, 2012, 01:12 PM
How are you going to shoot all that ammo without a significant number of magazines?

Shoot 15, shoot 15 then having to stop to reload both mags isn't good for anything but an inconsequential range toy.

old fart
October 31, 2012, 10:59 AM
well i have an update on my decision, i will be buying more ammo for awhile with very little put back for a gun. my wife and i sat down last nite and she said a few things that were true so i got to change a few things. i have been buying ammo for several months and she hasn't got to get her much of anything extra, so i'm giving her $200 or more extra a month if i have it and that leaves me about $50 so i'm gonna get ammo. she is a great pro gun wife, she will only shoot 22's but believes in anyone lawabiding owning anything. she loves wild game and is a great cook, wife, and mother, we have a 17 month old so her daily work is probably harder than mine. we don't have alot of income compared to most people, we just recently got our place paid off so that helps. i could go in debt again to get a gun but i like not having any bills except the regular house bills. but she did hint around about getting a 22 of some sort. thanks

22-rimfire
October 31, 2012, 12:10 PM
If you buy guns and ammo wisely I doubt you'll ever lose money on it. Guns and ammo tend to either keep pace with inflaction or exceed it, provided well maintained/stored.

I think this statement which is quite common here on the forums is absolutely not correct. Unless you have guns that are years old.... you will likely be selling them at a loss. Value is a relative thing. If you sell that Remington M700 made in the 70's, yes it will likely sell for more than you paid for it then, but try buying a replacement for the amount you just got selling the older gun.

The only ones that win selling guns with any regularity are people that pay a lot of attention and have the ability or willingness to wait for their price to be met. That is a bit hard when you are lugging that M700 around a gun show and want to sell it today because you want to buy some food, or put that toward the rent or mortgage.

I do have guns that will sell for far more than I paid for them. But in reality, most were purchased because I really liked them and not for re-sale value. Most were pruchased 20 years ago also.

Old Fart: I think what you are doing is prefectly reasonable. You do have to keep the peace. Didn't know you had a 17 mo child to take care of. Tough one. Sounds like you "inherited" the child so to speak from one of your kids. I know the usual reasons for this, so I won't even go there.

If things got "rough" for whatever reason, I'd give you enough ammo to defend house and home assuming I had the calibers on hand. I believe you live in the south if I recall. A friend called me yesterday and mentioned he was layed off. He has been scrambling to make ends meet. I know how important his cell phone is to him and I told him that if it came down to having the phone turned off, I'd help him with that. Without the ability to communicate, he would be at a severe disadvantage to correct his situation.

splattergun
October 31, 2012, 08:07 PM
A gun without ammunition is merely a club. Ammunition without a gun is merely weight.

Balance both.

My too scents.

Elmer
November 5, 2012, 02:33 AM
Can you be more specific?

What loads are on backorder for a year?

Can you tell us even just one specific load that is on backorder for a year?

I'm having a hard time believing that there are multiple loads on a 1+ year backorder.

BTW: Here is the .223/5.56 bulk ammo pile at my LGS:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121026_164527_zps5e802ae8.jpg

I have no doubt you have trouble conceptualizing things beyond your intimidate vision.

Like I said, distributors have stocked up. Things are different than they've been before.

Warp
November 5, 2012, 02:46 AM
I have no doubt you have trouble conceptualizing things beyond your intimidate vision.

Like I said, distributors have stocked up. Things are different than they've been before.

So...there aren't any loads on 1 year backorder?

Elmer
November 5, 2012, 03:17 AM
So...there aren't any loads on 1 year backorder?

As I said, for distributors there are.

Warp
November 5, 2012, 03:18 AM
As I said, for distributors there are.

What loads are they?

Elmer
November 5, 2012, 03:23 AM
What loads are they?

5.56 and .223.

Why don't you ask a distributor if you're interested.

I know you think you have a good handle on the state of orders because of what you see in your local gun store, but you might be surprised to find out there's a big world outside of that....

Warp
November 5, 2012, 03:25 AM
5.56 and .223.

Why don't you ask a distributor if you're interested.

I know you think you have a good handle on the state of orders because of what you see in your local gun store, but you might be surprised to find out there's a big world outside of that....

If you can't back a claim, maybe you shouldn't make it. ;)

Elmer
November 5, 2012, 03:46 AM
If you can't back a claim, maybe you shouldn't make it. ;)

I claimed that I've talked to people in the industry about it, and I have.

I know that's not as good as pitchers from your gun store.

Like I said, there's a big world out there beyond.

Inebriated
November 5, 2012, 04:01 AM
Getting awfully catty in here.

Elmer
November 5, 2012, 04:07 AM
Getting awfully catty in here.

I agree.

I merely said what I've been told.

Apparently that's threatening to some.

Warp
November 5, 2012, 02:21 PM
I agree.

I merely said what I've been told.

Apparently that's threatening to some.

So, just to be clear...nobody told you what loads were supposedly on backorder for a year?

You were simply told that multiple "5.56 / .223" loads were?

45lcshooter
November 6, 2012, 05:23 AM
Ill be ready to wake up tomorrow and see what the fate holds. That means today, i will be in the reloading dungeon alll day, just me and reloading components.

Elmer
November 9, 2012, 06:56 PM
So, just to be clear...nobody told you what loads were supposedly on backorder for a year?

You were simply told that multiple "5.56 / .223" loads were?
Yes, that's correct.

Perhaps in the coming days, the message I was passing on will have more meaning for you.

Or perhaps not.

I won't bother to pass on my conversation from today. I find insight from those in the wholesale industry can be very illuminating, as their time frames can be much longer than the local guys.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 07:00 PM
Yes, that's correct.

Perhaps in the coming days, the message I was passing on will have more meaning for you.


I doubt that something being unavailable, for a good price, for a few days will lead me to believe that multiple loads are on 1+ year backorder.

W.E.G.
November 9, 2012, 08:45 PM
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121026_164527_zps5e802ae8.jpg

I bet that's all gone now.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 08:49 PM
I bet that's all gone now.

What would you like to bet?

David E
November 9, 2012, 10:42 PM
You sure like to bet.....:rolleyes:

As a matter of interest to everyone else, my LGS was out of .223 last week, got more on Tuesday and is now down to 20 boxes on Friday.

Your LGS, of course, may be different. (I normally wouldn't add such an obvious addendum, but some people apparently expect it...)

Warp
November 9, 2012, 10:59 PM
You sure like to bet.....:rolleyes:

Far too many sheep, and chicken littles, posting on the gun boards the last few days.

I'm trying to bring some good sense, rationality, and logic to the floor...but nobody will have it. :(

It's 2008 all over again. Well, not quite. This time there actually was an assault weapons banning candidate, and he lost.

David E
November 9, 2012, 11:12 PM
I'm trying to bring some good sense, rationality, and logic to the floor...but nobody will have it. :(

Where, on another forum?

It's 2008 all over again. Well, not quite. This time there actually was an assault weapons banning candidate, and he lost.

Research Obama's vote history in Illinois.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 11:18 PM
Research Obama's vote history in Illinois.

There's no assault weapons ban.

The guy who lost is the one who supported an assault weapons ban, as well as a 5 day waiting period.

I'm surprised you didn't look into this stuff before the election.

Nico Testosteros
November 9, 2012, 11:36 PM
The loser actually signed an AWB into law.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 11:45 PM
The loser actually signed an AWB into law.

Bingo.

Which is a (small) part of why I didn't vote for him, either. He is no more a friend of the 2A than Obama.

David E
November 10, 2012, 12:12 AM
Romney was a far better choice, imperfect tho he was, than what we got.

Regardless, we are stuck with the current Prez for four more years.

Guns or ammo? It depends what you currently have. Both are going up in price, some guns will become extremely difficult to find.

Elmer
November 10, 2012, 05:43 PM
I doubt that something being unavailable, for a good price, for a few days will lead me to believe that multiple loads are on 1+ year backorder.

Who asked you to believe anything?

Far too many sheep, and chicken littles, posting on the gun boards the last few days.

I'm trying to bring some good sense, rationality, and logic to the floor...but nobody will have it. :(

No, what you bring is rudeness and incivility to a normally very civil board. I could give a rip whether or not you believe that I had the conversations that I had. Calling names and being a jerk just reflects on you.

For those sans the giant chip on their shoulder, my wholesaler friend just attended the NASGW show, the distributors only show. The manufacturers were reporting record orders, and quoting long, long delivery times. Some prices were up, with promises of more increases soon. His also said his sales more than doubled in the last few days.

So, we could indeed just see a temporary price and availability scare, that will soon pass. Or we could be in for another round of shortages and scalpers prices. Or we could see legislation pass, or executive orders, that would restrict what or how much of what you can buy.

I guess we'll see. I bought plenty when prices were half what they are currently, so I'm not personally worried about it.

Elmer
November 10, 2012, 05:52 PM
Romney was a far better choice, imperfect tho he was, than what we got.

Regardless, we are stuck with the current Prez for four more years.

While I was not excited about Romney, I find it puzzling that some discount what the president said during the debates.

And so what I’m trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced. But part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. Because frankly, in my home town of Chicago, there’s an awful lot of violence and they’re not using AK-47s. They’re using cheap hand guns.

I take him at his word, and at his previous words. Before the last ban, the gun community was full of those claiming it would never happen, that those of us who were worried about it were "chicken littles". History has a way of repeating itself for those that ignore it.

1 old 0311-1
November 10, 2012, 06:08 PM
I started saving/hoarding 4 years ago when the writing appeared on the wall. I am not worried about zombies, or blue helmets, I just made sure I have enough to last a few years.

1) Chicago just put in a .05 cent PER ROUND tax on ammo.
2) The country NEEDS money.
3) Lets see. Who else is from Chicago where they could get the 'hint.'


http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n489/kcq1/P1030121.jpg

old fart
November 10, 2012, 11:04 PM
i've got a few thousand of 22's, and about 1k of 12 ga. but only 100rds or so of slugs and buckshot, and now i have a dilemma to think about. my friend decided to get more ammo finally so he offered to sell me one of his shotguns. its a h&r pardner protector, i already have one but he priced it at $125 and its new never fired. i don't know if i need another pump but at that price its hard to pass up. thanks

1 old 0311-1
November 10, 2012, 11:11 PM
Hi Old Fart,

I have a few guns I have picked up simply because the price was WAY too good to pass up. Buy it. You can always sell, or trade it, down the line.

Elmer
November 11, 2012, 12:27 AM
Hi Old Fart,

I have a few guns I have picked up simply because the price was WAY too good to pass up. Buy it. You can always sell, or trade it, down the line.

Yeah, I've been buying guns for almost 40 years. I've never regretted buying anything that was a good deal. What I do regret, was not buying a lot of them I didn't know were such good deals.

Good suggestion on ammo too 0311. I'm still shooting a lot of rifle and pistol ammo I paid a dime a round for.

rodinal220
November 11, 2012, 09:02 AM
Ammo.You can never have too much.
As the late Col. Jeff Cooper stated in his book FIREWORKS:

In Chapter 20, Ballistic Wampum, he states,


"A trustworthy entity (king, nation, company, bank) which promises to redeem its paper in gold, on demand, can issue pretty good money. Obviously when an untrustworthy entity does not so promise, what it issues as "money" has no value at all apart from a sort of social momentum."

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