Shipping a gun to yourself out of state?


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Vector
October 22, 2012, 10:45 PM
A long gun is being gifted to me as a present (or at least I think it is) out of state.
I will fly and be there for several days. Now I could buy a hard lockable case and check it, but that will involve not only the cost of the case, but also an extra $25 for an extra checked bag fee. So I was thinking of shipping it USPS to myself back home in a non descript package.

So first, is it legal?

How safe would it be (i.e. gun being stolen)?

Any other considerations?

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SaxonPig
October 22, 2012, 11:17 PM
It's legal to ship a gun to yourself but it sounds like the rest of the deal is not legal. A person in one state cannot give or sell a gun to a resident of another state. An FFL may sell a long gun to an out of state buyer as long as all laws in both states are followed and the FFL is willing to do it which 99% are not.

Have the gun shipped to an FFL in your state for legal transfer to you.

dogtown tom
October 23, 2012, 12:09 AM
Vector A long gun is being gifted to me as a present (or at least I think it is) out of state...
Federal law requires that the firearm be transferred to you through a licensed dealer in that state. You would need to complete a 4473 and pass NICS. I HIGHLY recommend contacting a dealer at your destination BEFORE you go. Use the "Find an FFL" search feature on GunBroker.com




I will fly and be there for several days. Now I could buy a hard lockable case and check it, but that will involve not only the cost of the case, but also an extra $25 for an extra checked bag fee. So I was thinking of shipping it USPS to myself back home in a non descript package.

So first, is it legal?
Yes, as long as:
1. The firearm is legally transferred from the person in possession to you via 4473/NICS.
2. The firearm is legal for you to possess in your own state.






How safe would it be (i.e. gun being stolen)?
Any other considerations?
There are thousands of firearms mailed every day through the USPS. It is every bit as safe as UPS or FedEx. I highly recommend insurance for the full value as well as Signature Confirmation on delivery.
To be legal, only YOU may actually ship the firearm to yourself.....no one else can do it, otherwise it becomes a violation of Federal law for both of you. There is no notification required when you ship a rifle or shotgun via USPS.

Read this first:http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=651375






.

reuben mishler
October 23, 2012, 12:58 AM
...

reuben mishler
October 23, 2012, 01:07 AM
...

dogtown tom
October 23, 2012, 01:35 AM
reuben mishler Don't let SaxonPig scare you, in this case being a gift, if it is being given to you direct from family, no paperwork need even transpire. You will simply arrive at that given state, visit family, pick up the gun, fly home with it
This is the worst advice you could possibly give the OP.
What you are advising him to do is commit a Federal crime.



Key word here people is gifted....gifted...not purchasing
Key word here is IGNORANCE......yours.:rolleyes:
You don't have a clue as to Federal law regarding the interstate transfer of firearms. Read this and get back with us:
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Vector
October 23, 2012, 01:37 AM
Don't let SaxonPig scare you, in this case being a gift, if it is being given to you direct from family, no paperwork need even transpire. You will simply arrive at that given state, visit family, pick up the gun, fly home with it

I only say this because you are telling us it is being gifted. Should be real smooth

Key word here people is gifted....gifted...not purchasing

It would seem several people believe I need to do paperwork. The two states involved are Florida and North Carolina. The long gun can be owned in either state without issue. I have a CCW, but I figured it was mute since it will be a gift.

As to a general question of gifting a firearm, does it matter if the person gifting it to someone is a friend vs. a relative?

dogtown tom
October 23, 2012, 01:49 AM
Vector does it matter if the person gifting it to someone is a friend vs. a relative?
No.

wgsigs
October 23, 2012, 10:01 AM
What reuben mishler is proposing is only true if the giver dies and bequeaths it to you - not gifting it while alive, even if he or she is a family member. The issue is being residents of two different states.

Frank Ettin
October 23, 2012, 10:24 AM
...in this case being a gift, if it is being given to you direct from family, no paperwork need even transpire....This is 100% wrong. Federal law requires that the transfer be done through an FFL (with all formalities -- 4473, etc.), And there is no exception under federal law for a gift, from a family member or otherwise. If the OP and the person giving the gift were to do what you suggest, each would be committing a federal felony by violation 18 USC 922(a)(3) and 18 USC 922(a)(5). The penalty to which each could be subject is up to five years in a federal prison and/or a fine (plus a lifetime loss of gun rights).

Here's the text of the applicable federal law:18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;...

In the case of long guns, the transfer may be done by an FFL in the transferee's State or residence or the transferor's State of residence as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

All of that regarding the transfer of a long gun comes under 18 USC 922(b)(3):18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts
...

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes

;...

NavyLCDR
October 23, 2012, 10:45 AM
I am glad Frank posted the actual statutes so that people can see the two felonies that would be committed if anyone followed reuben mishler's advice. It will be interesting to see if reuben mishler posts again.

Vector,
Your CCW has nothing to do with the transfer of ownership of firearms. Like Frank Ettin posted, if the person gives (transfer ownership of the rifle to you, via gift or sale) without going through an FFL, they violate 18 USC 922 (a)(5) and commit a Federal felony.

When you return to your home state with that rifle, that you obtained from out of state, without an FFL, you violate 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and commit a Federal felony. Get caught and you lose not only your CCW, but your right to possess firearms at all until (if) you can't get your record expunged of the conviction.

Is it really worth it to save the $30 average for an FFL transfer? If it were me, I would just have the giver mail the rifle to an FFL in your state and get the gun there.

wgsigs
October 23, 2012, 10:51 AM
I am a little confused and need some clarification. Can the gun be gifted to Vector in person in the first place even with FFL paperwork? Wouldn't it be the same as if Vector tried to buy the gun in person in another state, which is forbidden? Wouldn't the gun, in either case, have to be shipped/transferred to an FFL in Vector's home state?

nazshooter
October 23, 2012, 11:11 AM
Wgsigs: Yes, if it's a long gun but many ffls won't do it. If it's a handgun then it would have to be shipped to a ffl in the OPs state.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

fireman 9731
October 23, 2012, 11:22 AM
I shipped a long gun to myself from CO to KY, but I bought the gun in CO while I lived in KY. It cost around a hundred bucks to overnight and insure it, and dealing with the ignorant at the post office was a hassle at both locations. I'm sure Fed-Ex would of been better but USPS was my only option where I was.

In your situation though, You better just send it through a dealer.

reuben mishler
October 23, 2012, 11:50 AM
...

dab102999
October 23, 2012, 12:05 PM
Wgisgs wrote:

I am a little confused and need some clarification. Can the gun be gifted to Vector in person in the first place even with FFL paperwork? Wouldn't it be the same as if Vector tried to buy the gun in person in another state, which is forbidden? Wouldn't the gun, in either case, have to be shipped/transferred to an FFL in Vector's home state?

Nazshooter replied:

Wgsigs: Yes, if it's a long gun but many ffls won't do it. If it's a handgun then it would have to be shipped to a ffl in the OPs state.
_________________________________________________

Now I am a little confused, does this mean if he bought a long gun across state lines it has to be shipped FFl?? And is that federal law??. The reason I ask is because I live on the IN/MI line and know of people (don't want to incriminate myself) that have passed background check and bought a long gun and transported it home them selfs from a dealer. Also have bought long guns at gun shows from private individuals and done the same. I know of at least one instance where the buyer was unsure and asked the state boy that was there if this was o.k. before he bought a long gun and was informed that it was fine as long as he was eligable to buy the gun and gun was legal??. So were these transactions techically illegal???...If so good thing all the guns I bought in Indiana where in the years that I lived down there.

CoRoMo
October 23, 2012, 12:19 PM
Wouldn't it be the same as if Vector tried to buy the gun in person in another state, which is forbidden? Wouldn't the gun, in either case, have to be shipped/transferred to an FFL in Vector's home state?
Wgsigs: Yes...
Nope. Not forbidden. You can purchase a long gun in any state. Can be shipped, does not have to be.
...if he bought a long gun across state lines it has to be shipped FFl?
Nope.
I live on the IN/MI line and know of people .. that have passed background check and bought a long gun and transported it home them selfs from a dealer.
That's because this does not violate federal law.
Also have bought long guns at gun shows from private individuals [in another state] and done the same [brought back from across state lines].
That's a violation of -at least- federal law.
I know of at least one instance where the buyer was unsure and asked the state boy that was there if this was o.k. before he bought a long gun and was informed that it was fine as long as he was eligable to buy the gun and gun was legal??
If you are referring to the private transaction between two residents of different states, the 'state boy' did not give you the correct answer. See the 'quote box' in post #6; it is a FAQ from atf.gov

smalls
October 23, 2012, 12:21 PM
No, you may buy a long gun in any state, so long as the gun in question is legal in your state. It must be transferred to you through an FFL, buy you may take possession of it in other states than your own.

Handguns must go through the FFL in your home state.

It cost around a hundred bucks to overnight and insure it, and dealing with the ignorant at the post office was a hassle at both locations. I'm sure Fed-Ex would of been better but USPS was my only option where I was.

In your situation though, You better just send it through a dealer.

Why? There is no need to send it through a dealer. Nor is there a need to overnight the package, or pay for anything special. You may walk into USPS with the package, tell them "I have a package to send", and send it. No need to even tell them what's inside it, as long as it's a long gun. Insurance is suggested, though.

Kyle M.
October 23, 2012, 12:25 PM
I am a little confused and need some clarification. Can the gun be gifted to Vector in person in the first place even with FFL paperwork? Wouldn't it be the same as if Vector tried to buy the gun in person in another state, which is forbidden? Wouldn't the gun, in either case, have to be shipped/transferred to an FFL in Vector's home state?

I've bought several long guns out of state from ffl's and I've been able to bring them home with me. Handguns on the other hand have had to be shipped to my ffl at home. I've also had no less than three ffl's tell me I can buy a gun from an individual out of state, but it has to be shipped from an ffl in said state to an ffl in my state regardless of whether it is a rifle or handgun.

Mike Sr.
October 23, 2012, 12:25 PM
I went to Alaska last Summer to see my brother. He lives in Soldotna.

I shipped my Marlin 444p to myself using their address, they picked it up at the PO for me. Then when I left, I shpped it back to myself to my home address. ....using the same box....


I did not want to screw with the airline format.

smalls
October 23, 2012, 12:29 PM
they picked it up at the PO for me

They broke Federal law. Only you are allowed to take possession of that box.

Frank Ettin
October 23, 2012, 12:49 PM
they picked it up at the PO for me

They broke Federal law. Only you are allowed to take possession of that box.They may pick up the box addressed to the gun owner in care of them. But they may not open the box.

smalls
October 23, 2012, 12:51 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

NavyLCDR
October 23, 2012, 01:15 PM
Federal law for the transfer of ownership of firearms, regardless of if the transfer of ownership is gift or sale, family or not - the only exception is by inheritance when someone dies:

1. Federal law allows transfers of rifles, shotguns and handguns only between residents of the same state with no FFL involved.

2. Federal law allows the transfer of a rifle or shotgun to a person outside their state of residence by an FFL only - if the state laws of both the recipient and the FFL are complied with.

3. Federal law only allows the transfer of other than a rifle or shotgun to a person inside their own state of residence.

Person A in State A wants to give a rifle or shotgun to Person B who is a resident of State B. The transfer cannot happen directly between Person A and Person B. The transfer can go through an FFL in almost any state, so long as the state laws of the FFL and Person B are complied with.

Person A in State A wants to give a firearm other than a rifle or shotgun to Person B who is a resident of State B. The transfer cannot happen directly between Person A and Person B. The transfer must go through an FFL in State B only.

Once Person B lawfully owns the firearm, having been previously transferred to him by an FFL, he can then ship it to himself in another state, or transport the firearm himself between states. He can also ship it to himself in care of another person, the third person can receive the package, but most hold the package, unopened, for Person B to finally receive it.

wgsigs
October 23, 2012, 01:36 PM
Thanks everyone for the clarification and NavyLCDR for the summary. I think it is clearer to me now. I was mixing up the laws and process for handguns with that for long guns.

dab102999
October 23, 2012, 02:02 PM
Yes thank you

Vector
October 24, 2012, 12:57 AM
Why? There is no need to send it through a dealer. Nor is there a need to overnight the package, or pay for anything special. You may walk into USPS with the package, tell them "I have a package to send", and send it. No need to even tell them what's inside it, as long as it's a long gun. Insurance is suggested, though.

Aside from your belief that there is no need to send it through a dealer, your comment I bolded made me wonder.
I assumed you needed to tell the USPS you were shipping a long gun. But if I read what you said correctly, you can mail a package to yourself with a long gun in it without notifying personnel at the USPS, and it is legal?

`

Frank Ettin
October 24, 2012, 01:08 AM
The rules for the mailing of rifles and shotguns are set out in paragraph 12.2 of the USPS Domestic Mail Manual (http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#1198527): 12.2 Rifles and Shotguns

Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d. The following conditions also apply:

a. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement, and must be sent by Express Mail (“signature required” must be used at delivery), Registered Mail, or must include either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery or Signature Confirmation service.

b. A shotgun or rifle owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner's state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the state, where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:

1. Be addressed to the owner.

2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.

3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.

4. Be mailed using services described in 12.2a..

c. Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 12.2a..

d. Except as described in 12.1.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to FFL licensed curio and relic collectors in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 12.2a..

e. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest may be accepted for mailing without restriction.

f. Air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearm under 12.1.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an Adult Signature service under 503.9.0. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.

scythefwd
October 24, 2012, 01:40 AM
actually you can be bequeathed a firearm from someone without going through a FFL. You can enact a will before you die, so yes it can be done.. but its a pain in the butt and should probably involve a lawyer to do it that way. I'd recommend you get a FFL in NC who is willing to recieve the gun and transfer it to you.

Frank Ettin
October 24, 2012, 02:13 AM
...actually you can be bequeathed a firearm from someone without going through a FFL...A major downside with this plan is that the person giving the OP the gun needs to die first. But it's my impression that the person giving the OP the gun might be interested in continuing to live for some time.

smalls
October 24, 2012, 02:48 AM
I re read what Frank posted a few times, and I believe that I'm correct, I don't see anything about notifying them of what's inside. I may be missing something, though, if anyone else can see something I'm not?

scythefwd
October 24, 2012, 08:38 AM
Frank, negative. You can enact a will prior to death. There are some legal loops to jump through to do it though I believe. Its not just a simple.. I'm enacting my will thing.

Frank Ettin
October 24, 2012, 09:33 AM
Frank, negative. You can enact a will prior to death. There are some legal loops to jump through to do it though I believe. Its not just a simple.. I'm enacting my will thing. I'm sorry, but you don't understand these things.

[1] You might "believe", but I know. I'm a lawyer.

[2] One doesn't "enact" a will. One has a will written.

[3] One of course has a will written before he dies.

[4] But property doesn't pass to the intended recipients (called "beneficiaries") until after the person who made the will (called the "testator") dies.

[5] After the testator dies, the usual procedure is that a person designated by the testator in the will as his personal representative (the "executor"), files the will in the proper ("probate") court (has the will "admitted to probate"). Then under the supervision of the probate court, the executor marshals the assets of the testator (now usually called the "decedent"), pays any outstanding taxes and other debts of the decedent, and then distributes upon the direction of the probate court any remaining assets of the decedent's estate to the persons designated by the will to receive them.

[6] But all that, the distribution of property, doesn't happen until the person who has made the will is dead.

[7] A "living will" (http://www.alllaw.com/articles/wills_and_trusts/article7.asp) is something completely different. It is sometimes called an "advance health care directive." It is a way to make known what sort of medical treatments you will want or not want at such time as you become incapable or making those decisions yourself. Property doesn't pass to others through a living will.

NavyLCDR
October 24, 2012, 10:02 AM
18 USC 922 requires a shipper to notify a common or contract carrier IN WRITING if a shipment contains a firearm that is going out of state to anyone other than an FFL. Since the US Postal Service is neither a common or contract carrier, this requirement in Federal law does not apply to US Postal Service. US Postal Service is governed by the Postal Regulations sections of Code of Federal Regulations.

wgsigs
October 24, 2012, 10:27 AM
Frank, there was a previous discussion, either here or on another gun forum, where the section of the GCA regarding the shipping of handguns by a non-FFL through a common carrier (UPS, Fed-Ex) was posted. It was interpreted by some posters (I don't know if they were lawyers or not) that the non-FFL sender did NOT have to notify the common carrier, either verbally or written, that the package contained a firearm. In your professional opinion was that the correct interpretation? I apologize for the slight digression and appeal for free :uhoh: legal advice, but my question is somewhat related.

NavyLCDR
October 24, 2012, 10:58 AM
Frank, there was a previous discussion, either here or on another gun forum, where the section of the GCA regarding the shipping of handguns by a non-FFL through a common carrier (UPS, Fed-Ex) was posted. It was interpreted by some posters (I don't know if they were lawyers or not) that the non-FFL sender did NOT have to notify the common carrier, either verbally or written, that the package contained a firearm. In your professional opinion was that the correct interpretation? I apologize for the slight digression and appeal for free :uhoh: legal advice, but my question is somewhat related.

Whether or not a non-FFL is doing the shipping does not matter. What matters, in Federal law is that the gun is 1. Going out of state AND 2. Going TO a non-FFL. Federal law is clear, plain and simple on this:

18 USC 922(e) :

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

scythefwd
October 24, 2012, 11:09 AM
Frank, I'm fully aware of what a living will is.. its in a similar vein to a do not revive.

I wonder if its a state thing.. I've seen it done, with lawyers present in IL... I dont remeber exactly what it was called.. but basically the guy was on his deathbead and had his lawyer start the processing the terms of his will.

Frank Ettin
October 24, 2012, 11:16 AM
... I dont remeber exactly what it was called.. but basically the guy was on his deathbead and had his lawyer start the processing the terms of his will. We've spent entirely too much time on this already.

But the bottom line is that property does not get distributed under a will until the person who made the will is dead. If you want someone to take possession of a gun of yours before you die, you can't do that by a will.

NavyLCDR
October 24, 2012, 11:22 AM
Frank, I'm fully aware of what a living will is.. its in a similar vein to a do not revive.

I wonder if its a state thing.. I've seen it done, with lawyers present in IL... I dont remeber exactly what it was called.. but basically the guy was on his deathbead and had his lawyer start the processing the terms of his will.
Let's say I have a TV set that I want to go to my son in my will. There is nothing saying that I can't have my lawyer give the TV set to my son a month before I die. There is nothing saying I can't tell my lawyer to distribute my estate completely, according to the terms of the will, before I die. That is simply a distribution of property according to a written set of instructions.

If it is a firearm, and the recipient is not a same state resident - if the transfer of ownership happens before the giver dies, it has to go through an FFL. If the transfer of the ownership happens after the giver dies, it doesn't. Simple as that.

Frank Ettin
October 24, 2012, 11:24 AM
...the GCA regarding the shipping of handguns by a non-FFL through a common carrier (UPS, Fed-Ex) was posted. It was interpreted by some posters (I don't know if they were lawyers or not) that the non-FFL sender did NOT have to notify the common carrier, either verbally or written, that the package contained a firearm... NavyLCDR has correctly cited the applicable federal law.

The confusion seems to come from the fact that the FedEx and UPS tariffs require verbal notice to the counter person that the package contains any gun (in the case of FedEx) or a handgun (in the case of UPS). While failure to comply with the tariff is not a crime, it is a breach of the contract of shipment and will support denial of any insurance claim if the package is lost or its contents damaged.

Frank Ettin
October 24, 2012, 11:37 AM
...If the transfer of the ownership happens after the giver dies, it doesn't [need to go through an FFL]. Simple as that. It's not quite as simple as that. The transfer of ownership must either be under a will or in accordance with applicable intestate succession laws if the decedent didn't have a will. That is what is specified in the federal law. See for example 18 USC 922(a)(5), emphasis added:...except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearmNote that in law a "bequest" is specifically a gift under a will, and state laws will define the terms and process for intestate succession.

So proper state law procedures will need to be followed (for probate of the will or administration of the intestate estate). It doesn't appear that the requirements of federal law would be satisfied by Son clearing out Deceased Father's closet and giving a gun to his Buddy in another State.

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