Ar15 sbr


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jl1288
October 23, 2012, 03:54 PM
I have a question, does one have to have their sbr tax stamp in hand to be able to buy a short barreled upper? If I understand the process correctly it's the lower receiver that is registered as a short barrel rifle is it not? Thanks for any help and insight you folks can provide.

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CoRoMo
October 23, 2012, 04:18 PM
I have a question, does one have to have their sbr tax stamp in hand to be able to buy a short barreled upper?
Nope. You can buy an upper receiver of any length without anything other than a way to pay for it.

A felon could order/receive an AR upper by mail, never having to set foot in a gun shop. Point being; it is not a regulated product.
If I understand the process correctly it's the lower receiver that is registered as a short barrel rifle is it not?
Being the serialized "firearm", yes, it is the portion that is actually registered.

Now... having both the short upper and the unregistered lower is not the best avenue to take when registering a lower to be a SBR. It happens all the time, I'm sure, but can be construed as something it might not be.

jl1288
October 23, 2012, 04:38 PM
Is that what is called "constructive possession?" I have an appointment with a lawyer to set up my "trust" but would like to purchase the upper before they become hens teeth.

allaroundhunter
October 23, 2012, 04:41 PM
Is that what is called "constructive possession?" I have an appointment with a lawyer to set up my "trust" but would like to purchase the upper before they become hens teeth.

That is more or less the idea. An avenue that you could go is to get the lower, but keep it as a pistol lower with your short-barreled upper, and wait to put a stock on it until the paperwork comes back.

jl1288
October 23, 2012, 05:05 PM
Thanks for the help gents, quite a mine field to tip toe thru. Can't wait to look at the form 1 and get really confused.

jl1288
October 23, 2012, 08:20 PM
May a FFL or an individual legally possess the parts to manufacture an SBR or SBS as long as no firearms are actually assembled?



It appears that ATF does not permit individuals to own the parts necessary to make a SBR or SBS prior to receiving their permission to manufacture / assemble the items. Because of this is it recommended that the same person should not purchase all of the items necessary to make a SBR or SBS and if they do, they should not take all of them home from the dealer. As a barrel can often be attached to several guns, it would be prudent to leave the barrel at your Class III dealer prior to receiving an approved ATF Form 1.

This information comes from a similar question and is found on the ATF website.


"A FFL (Type-7 or Type-10) who pays the Special Occupational Tax (SOT) may possess the parts required to assemble NFA firearms (SBR or SBS). A non-licensee (individual, trust, corporation, or other business entity) or FFL who has not paid the SOT is
required to register any NFA firearm via an ATF Form 1 (5320.1) prior to acquisition of the parts required to assemble such firearm."

This comes from the NFA Gun Trust lawyer blog website. My attorney recommended I visit this site after I asked him about buying my short barrel upper prior to receiving my tax stamp. He also asked if I already owned any AR's since the upper could be swapped onto one of the existing lowers, his advice was also to wait. Bummer

GarySTL
October 23, 2012, 09:08 PM
I bought my pistol upper and left it at the home of a friend who had no AR lowers until I got my papers back from the ATF. No problems.

MachIVshooter
October 24, 2012, 10:28 PM
Is that what is called "constructive possession?"

SBR "Constructive possession" with AR pattern guns is a bit more grey than it is with others:

With machine guns, having all the FA parts and a receiver that can accept them does constitute constructive possession, whether you ever assembled them or not.

With SBRs, any rifle can be made such with a mere hacksaw, but possession of a metal cutting implement and a title I rifle certainly does not constitute "Constructive intent" or "Constructive possession".

With AR's, however, the ease with which the short upper can be put on a lower means that a zealous agent could try to prosecute someone who has both. That said, having AR pistols and AR rifles at the same time is perfectly legal and, though one could certainly put their pistol upper on their unregistered lower, to prosecute, the burden of proof for prosecution that the accused did so would have to be met. Basically, they would need a verifiable photograph or admission of guilt.

If one had a only a short upper and an unregistered rifle lower, it would ultimately be up to a judge whether the individual intended to assemble an SBR or if you planned to build both a pistol and a rifle, but hadn't acquired all the parts for either yet. Personally, if I had only a rifle lower, I would think twice about having a short upper around the house.

Me? I have 3 rifles, one pistol and a complete lower that's going to be another rifle. My pistol was built on a virgin lower, and as we speak, the form 1 is en route to ATF to SBR it. I do already have the stock I plan to use, but I don't have a buffer tube laying around that will accept it (well, it could slide onto the pistol tube if I took the foam pad off, and if I didn't mind it being all the way forward and free to rotate 360* or just fall off)

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