[alcmaeon]

My one month old Springfield Armory standard model M1A broke on round 108!

I was shooting the Portugese Nato surplus ammo thats all over the place right now. I shot, the round went off like it should have: normal recoil, normal sound and the rifle even chambered the next round. However, out of the corner of my eye I saw a small piece of metal fly up and in front of the shooting bench. Sure enough, when I looked at the bolt it was slightly offset and I could easily see the round in the chamber.
At first I was unable to open the bolt but after wiggling it around a bit I got it opened and was able to extract the unfired round by hand. There were three loose parts in total. I found one part still in the breech, one on the ground in front of the bench, and when I took the trigger group out the third part fell out.

Like I said, the rifle is brand new, and I had just went past the 100 fired round mark.

I called Springfield and they were very nice on the phone. I'm sending to them tomorrow with a letter asking them to replace the bolt assembly with GI parts if available. I was not a happy guy. I'll let you know how well they handle this.


Here are some pics:

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/m1abroken/lst?.dir=/My+Documents&.view=l

[Airwolf]

That well and truly sucks.

I've got about 220 rounds through my M1A Scout purchased late last year. Same ammo that you're using.

Running like a Swiss... car :D (name that reference!)

Very interested to know how they handle this.

[dude]

oops..........it happens

SA will take good care of you.


If you don't mind me asking.......what is the headstamp info on the NATO Portugese stuff you are shooting??
My custom .308 Garand that I had tuned to shoot NATO surplus stuff just loves a certian NATO ammo that I am quickly running out of with the headstamp- BF, the NATO circle-x and the numbers 79 and 51 (at 12, 3, 6, 9 o-clock position respectivly). My local shop has run out and I have no idea where is is from. I would like to be able to buy ALOT more and knowing the country of orgin would make it easier for online shoping. My Garand seems to shoot all the NATO I have tried just fine but does not cycle the popular South African stuff that is so common around here as of late.


Just stay away from the Cavim stuff, as I found it very 'hot' and hard to eject from my .308 Mauser. No way it could be healthy for a nice M1A

[JohnKSa]

One of the last few times I was at the rifle range, one other fellow and I had it to ourselves.

As I was leaving (or arriving, can't remember) I walked by his shooting position and noticed he was shooting an M1A. I commented that it looked like a nice rifle.

He answered that it was but that he had virtually rebuilt it after about 1,000 rounds. "WHAT?" I asked.

It was a new Springfield Armory gun and at the 1000 round mark or so, it broke a part. He started looking at the part and determined that it was a rather low quality casting. He started examining the rest of the gun closely and found several other worn parts that were equally low quality cast parts.

At that point, he purchased a lot of GI parts and rebuilt most of the rifle.

I posted this experience on Assault Web and hardly raised an eyebrow--even though no one contradicted it. It seems that the community is aware that Springfield is cutting corners but is willing to put up with their penny pinching since the M1A has a strong following and there's no other way to get a halfway decent new M1A.

[Airwolf]

Not to mention the fact that for .308 semi's in the PRK you have 2 choices. M1A or Mini-30.

This is not making me feel warm and fuzzy about my Scout.

:confused:

[nextjoe]

"There were three loose parts in total. I found one part still in the breech, one on the ground in front of the bench, and when I took the trigger group out the third part fell out."


Your loose parts are the extractor, ejector plunger, and firing pin. The FP and ejector are held in place by the pin on the extractor. When it went flying, the other parts were free to come out of the bolt. The extractor would've been on the ground, the ejector plunger in the breech, and the firing pin fell out when you pulled the trigger group.

I'd bet on an improperly shaped or fitted extractor, but I'm not an expert on M1As.

Best,
Joe

[SteyrAUG]

You got off easy.

You won't believe this one.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=165898&w=searchPop

[Redlg155]

Dude...

Port Surplus. Shoots great in my FAL also.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/pa5ffc43af09b3769dea8e5494555cbf3/fcb38b16.jpg

Good Shooting
RED

[alcmaeon]

The portugese ammo I have is a diffrent box than the pic posted here. The head stamp is the Nato symbol, FNM 78-10 and came fro AIM.

I read that AR-15.com thread, sounds like what happned to my rifle is not all that uncomman :cuss: .

Well, I'll just see how they handle it. I am in the market for a .45 Colt clone and they were on top of the short list. They will have to earn any more purchases from me though.

[dude]

Red you ARE the man

hell, you're Chico and the Man!!



That's it exactly!! ......as I am looking at the exact same label as we speak.
A bit mistifying though, as according to alcmaeon, (and ammoman agrees:http://www.ammoman.com/images/PORT_2.jpg) the Port stuff is marked differently. Perhaps there is more than one headstamp marking for Port NATO .308.



thanks again

now to find a good deal for Port-.308 online..............

[dude]

sorry to hi-jack the thread


......please continue with the SA sagas

[SteyrAUG]

alcmaeon, the problem seem to be SA new direction into the CRAP market. They are now using cast, rather than forged parts in the M1As.

The current SAR 8 (HK copy) is nothing more than a CAI G3 with SA's once fine name on it. Same crap CAi parts, same crap CAI build.

The Springfiled XD is a nother "name only" Springfield product built in Croatia. I know some people love them (they go mighty fine with that SKS) but they are crap.

I've heard nothing but complaints from anyone who has bought a SA scope or mount in the last year.

I certainly would pass on their 1911. Get a Kimber or a Para.

[Engineer]

Not to mention the fact that for .308 semi's in the PRK you have 2 choices. M1A or Mini-30.

I believe the Mini-30 is chambered for 7.62x39 and not .308. Your other option is a rebarreled Garand.

So far I haven't had any troubles with my SA M1A - have a standard with a cast bolt and a SuperMatch with a USGI bolt. Both have been fed Port. .308 without problems. If the cast Springfield really bothers you, you can order a complete USGI from CMP for $42.

[Airwolf]

I stand corrected on the Mini-30 ;)

So that leaves us with really only one choice here.

Oh joy. :mad:

[craigz]

Here's my Springfield Armory story. I bought a "loaded" 1911 a few years ago (a rattletrap POS, but that's another story) and used the discount coupon that comes with it to buy some of their junky magazines. (Hey, it was my first 1911. What did I know?) Paid with a credit card, received mags, end of transaction, or so I thought.

Over a year later, I receive a package containing about a dozen of their junky magazines and a pocket .45 cleaning kit that I never ordered. The invoice has my name and address on it, but somebody else's credit card number. Now, I'm under no obligation to return something I never ordered, but being a nice guy, I call them up and explain the situation. They tell me thanks for letting them know and not to bother sending the stuff back.

Another year or so passes, and I get a letter complaining about an unpaid invoice for over a hundred dollars and threatening me with a collection agency. I call SA again, tell the whole story, and they don't believe that the person told me to keep the stuff. They were extremely snotty, wanting to know who I talked to (as if I remembered). They said I had to return the stuff or pay for it. I said that I would return the stuff, but there was no way I was going to pay for shipping, since I never ordered it. They would have to send a UPS call tag or arrange for a pickup. After much haggling back and forth, I got them to give me their FedEx account number, because FedEx is right up the street and UPS is way across town.

So, I dig the junky mags, used and dirty, out of my gun junk box, along with the little cleaning kit, also used and dirty, put them in a FedEx mailer and send it back to them Priority Overnight. I never heard from them again. The bottom line? They paid about $25 in FedEx fees to have a pile of used junk shipped back to them, and they lost a customer forever.

So these stories of SA lowering its standards don't surprise me much. In my experience, they weren't too high to begin with.

[3 gun]

This kind of story is why I look for preban M1a rifles. It isn't because of the "evil" features that being preban allows, it's the use of USGI parts that makes them worth the extra money. The CMP is a good place to look for GI parts at a fair price. If you want to up grade or pickup spare parts.

I have a line on one now but am having trouble finding a FFL that will do a private transfer without breaking the bank. What a pain!

[telewinz]

Can happen to any firearm I guess but looks like a vote for the Armscorp M14:) Had mine for years and it keeps on going. Guess thats another difference between the M1A and the M-14:D

[Redlg155]

Port Surplus came with several different headstamps. Although the specific stamp I have pictured is not listed on this list (I don't have a date when the website listing was compiled) it does show different headstamps for Port Surplus plus identification of other .308 Surplus ammo. The List (http://www.leclairdavis.com/catalogs/7.62X51.htm) is pretty extensive.

A peek over at FAL Files (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=22) also confirms that it is Port Surplus by different folks having the same stuff ordered from AIM and other sources.

Seems as though a couple different headstamps have been coming in.

Good Shooting
RED

[dude]

thanks again

[Blackcloud6]

alcmaeon:

What parts came off? Did anything break? Sometime the extractor will just fly out of an M14/M1A bolt. Just put it back together and you'll be fine.

[ShaiVong]

Not too long ago I was in a local gunshop crusing for deals, when I overheard one of the clerks talking to a potential customer about pistols. Customer mentioned a Springfield, and the clerk said something to the effect of 'Dont bother. Why? Their relyablilty just isnt there yet.'

Now I know what he ment.

SA is going to start loosing some serous business if they keep this $hit up. I dont think i could in good conscience recomend SA for any type of gun untill I hear about QC improving.

[alcmaeon]

Hey Blackcloud6, the parts are in the pics in the first entry of this thread. The medium sized part looked to be broken at first but upon closer examination it is a poor cast, the surface is bumpy and looks like it was made by hand. I know the rough edges are not broken as most of them have blue on them.

I could probably figure out how it goes togethor but I don't want to, I want SA to put in GI parts so I can trust it again. A rifle that might fall apart every 100 rounds is going to get sold off, not become a cherished heirloom.

Now, this is my first M1A, so maybe I'm over reacting to this problem, but I had never read anywhere about this inherant problem before. Is it very comman? I just kept hearing how good they were...

Thanks for the thought though!

[Blain]

....That's EXACTLY why I had to have my M14 build with all forged USGI parts.

[Skunkabilly]

Sometimes I wonder if I shoulda just bought a Mini-14 to hold me over.:rolleyes:

[Nightcrawler]

Well, the only other place to get an M14 type (to my knowledge) is Fulton Armory, but it's really expensive.

I see Armscorp receivers for sale on occasion. Perhaps someday I"ll pick one up for a possible future custom build...

[twoblink]

My M1A is reliable, and accurate, but for the price I paid, I can't believe the fit and finish!!

Springfield needs to do better QA on the M1A's as that is the Springfield's bread and butter.

[curt]

My M1A right from the box starting spitting out stainless filings from the oprod area leaving an obvious rub mark on my stainless barrel and a grinding feeling when i operated the oprod. I sent it back (my dollar) and they replaced it with a gi oprod. Worked fine until a year or so ago when i shot it after fulton armory had done a trigger job, it doubled and the scope gave me an owey. I sent it to fulton (my dollar) where clint recommended i have SA replace the reciver. the trough in the hood of the receiver where the tail of the bolt rides was more like a scratching performed by an angry monkey with a dull file. Once again it went off in the mail ( i can't remember whose dollar it was but it was probably mine) and after a bit it came back with a nice new,properly machine receiver.

Although SA was nice through this process, i spent an appreaciable amount of shipping costs and did without for a considerable period of time. I still haven't gotten the nerve up to try the damn thing again with the new receiver.

[shooten]

Sorry for the rookie question. I have a new M1A with about 60 rounds through it and after reading this I'm a little concerned. How can you tell if you have forged or a cast parts? According to Scott Duff's book, my serial number says that it was built in the early 60's (I'm assuming that means the receiver etc. bad assumption?). Accuracy has been excellent and it's a joy to shoot.

Thanks for the help, this is a great forum.

Scott

[alcmaeon]

Hey All

Just a report on SAs service. The rifle is in the hands of UPS back to me. The letter I received from SA this weekend stated they had replacded the parts of the bolt that fell out. They test fired it for 80rds but they don't have any GI bolts so I have the original SA bolt still in place. So, I expect it to arrive this week and will have to run 200rds thru it this weekend to see what happens. They were polite, fast enough in turnaround to be satisfactory and they did refund all of my UPS shipping cost to them, including the insurance. I had to write them a letter asking for the shipping and enclosed a photocopy of my UPS receipt.

Take Care