[guyfromohio]

I have both the desire and the green light from the finance department to purchase reloading equipment. With 9mm and .223 being my primary ammo, I know the cost/savings ratio isn't in my favor... but that's not necessarily my drive.

I have never reloaded. Never even seen it done. That being said, I'm looking at the Dillon xl650 based on recommendations from friends with some experience. Not considering the cost versus cost of SIMILAR systems, does it make sense to go right to that type of sophistication? Am I missing a necessary learning curve of a single stage? Not looking to tune precision loads, but more to "manufacture" in bulk for my own use. Thoughts?

[FROGO207]

Well there are two schools of thought there. One is to mass produce questionable ammo without a basic grip of the how to do it well part. The other is like building a building in that a great foundation when starting will last you well for years. So instead of getting a 6 year old a bicycle would you get them a brand new mustang to use? I think it is a similar comparison. I am sure others will disagree but since you are asking I think you are smart and cautious. I would think that a single stage and some basic tools (that all are still necessary anyway IMHO) would be a good way to start. THEN when you can make 100 rounds with no mistakes whatsoever go to your progressive (that you will now understand the why and what better) and start that part of the learning curve. Am I overly cautious?? Not really when considering what the rounds are capable of doing to you or your firearm if you make one little mistake.

[cfullgraf]

You will get lots of different opinions.

I prefer to load rifle on a single stage. I prefer to clean off the resizing lubricant after sizing but before reloading and rifle cases have to be trimmed regularly. Trimming is best done after resizing. I have loaded prepped and primed 223 Rem cases through my progressive. It just does not ring my bell.

Also, a single stage press is good to have around as they do a few, specialized tasks better than a progressive. If you start with a single stage, most of the equipment will transfer to the progressive so it is not like starting over.

That said, there are many folks that cut their teeth on a progressive.

As far as progressives are concerned, I prefer auto indexing ones. Mine is a Hornady L-N-L but the Diilons are great machines.

Do some investigating. There is a sticky at the top of the forum, "Reloading Libray of Wisdom", that has lots of good information. Get a book or two like Lyman #49 or "The ABCs of Reloading".

[guyfromohio]

Good Lord, I am a newb. I never even considered the safety aspect. I assumed that if you put all of the components in the right spot and then pulled the lever, a flawless round would fall into the tray. Obviously, before I actually reload, I'll study and get hands on "training".... but understanding the science and mechanics makes sense. These first 2 responses may actually have swayed me. And I can still order thousands of rounds of Tula while honing my reloading skills. Wheels spinning....

[tightgroup tiger]

Unless you have a really good teacher to help you with this, I think you may have your sights set a little to high, jumping into a Dillon right away.

Check out Lee's Classic Cast turret press, it has auto-indexing and can be changed to single stage operation in seconds.

It won't break the bank, will allow you to afford all the other things you will find out you need, and will also give you a taste of progressive reloading even though it is not a true progressive press. It's something in between the single stage and the Dillon you are looking at in the way it works.

You really do need to learn the basics of reloading on a SS or Classic Cast Turret press before moving to mass production. It is a lot safer that way for you and everyone around you.

[tightgroup tiger]

I assumed that if you put all of the components in the right spot and then pulled the lever, a flawless round would fall into the tray.

Well your right about one thing, something usually will fall out when you pull the lever but I doubt it will be safe to shoot.

You better get the reloading books and learn this right before choosing a loading press. You have a lot of learning to do before you are ready for a Dillon, from your last post.

Start reading my friend, ABC of reloading, Lyman's 49' edition, and so on.
Learn it and if you don't understand it then find someone that does and start asking questions, before moving any further forward.

You will live longer that way.

[WvHiker]

I also like the single stage. I painstakingly weigh out every charge of powder, and take my sweet time at every stage.

It's more fun than it probably sounds. No, I don't make tons of ammo quickly, but I make good, reliable, safe ammo.

I make mostly 9mm. I don't save much money, but saving money isn't my primary goal. I do it because I enjoy it (except for the picking up empties, which isn't that fun at all.)

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

Get the 650, and all the bell's and whistles, but also get a Lee C press. It is a small single stage, that will cost less then the shipping of the Dillon.

Practice on the Lee, while you are learning the about the Dillon.

[JLDickmon]

Get the 650, and all the bell's and whistles, but also get a Lee C press. It is a small single stage, that will cost less then the shipping of the Dillon.

Practice on the Lee, while you are learning the about the Dillon.

then when the arm breaks on it, you can throw it in the trash and not really be out anything..
I'm about ready to give mine and a set of .40 dies to a friend that's getting into the hobby... and I know I have more into the dies than I do the press..

And I'd have to agree about the Dillon.. steep learning curve..

Much as I hate to put aside my, "Overkill? Never heard of it." motto, I'd have to agree. I started on a turret, which is essentially a single stage. That was 30 years ago.
I'm still using it.

[CraigC]

I'm mechanically inclined and detail oriented but I'm VERY glad I learned to handload on a turret (glorified single stage) long before I got my 650. You REALLY need to learn the process one step at a time and at a slow pace before moving to a progressive. I cannot stress this enough. There is a lot going on at one time and you need to be aware of everything. You have a lot to learn and a progressive is the wrong press to learn it on.

Same reason you learn to drive on momma's old station wagon instead of an F1 car.

[batex]

I started Loading on a Dillon 550 and I'm very glad I did. I can't imagine loading the volume I do on a single stage. In fact I probably would not still be reloading if I only had a single stage at this point. The nice thing about the Dillon 550 is that you can use it as a single stage press. However I am very mechanically inclined and detail oriented. I say go for the Dillon if you feel it's right for you.

[solman]

A Dillon RL550 might be what you are looking for. You can use it as a single stage and when you get some experience you have a manual indexing progressive. Tough as nails, lifetime garauntee and an easy sell if you don't like it or want an upgrade to the 650.
I started with the Dillon 550 and still have it 25 years later. I did add a few others to the reloading stable but the 550 is my go to press for loading batches of ammo.
Oops I see above poster beat me to the point...

[eldon519]

I started with a turret press which is kind of a compromise between a single stage and a progressive. In retrospect, I wish I'd just jumped right into my Dillon 550. As mentioned above, the Dillon doesn't auto-index, so you can basically use it as a single stage which is how I might recommend getting started, and then once you are comfortable, you can start rocking and rolling in progressive fashion. You said you are planning to do 9mm and .223 and are aware that the savings are slim. To me that is more reason why a single stage isn't worth your time/hassle.

Even if you decide to get an auto-indexing progressive like the Hornady or the Dillon 650, you can always just run one round through all the stations one at a time to get your learning curve down. As long as you are cautious and attentive, you will be okay. It isn't rocket surgery.

[guyfromohio]

I'll look into the 550 idea.... something that could grow as my skills grow. To be clear, I have every intention of learning before doing. I don't want to get in over my head, while I also don't want to get something that will be useless in the too-soon future. By "useless", I really am not looking to tune 500 yard ammo. Just looking to roll my own.

[CMD-Ky]

When looking, consider the RCBS Pro 2000. It doesn't get much "buzz" but, over time, I have grown to prefer it over the Dillon 550B that I also own. It is all personal preference and the Pro 2000 is worth a thought.

[dab102999]

One other way to get some help learning in addition to books is look at a Dnr site and see if any classes in the area you live. Also local gun clubs can help you with a mentor. One thing about reloaders is no matter how much some gaurd there secret reciepts I have never meet one that wouldn't give free advice to keep you safe.

[Walkalong]

I started on a single stage, then moved to a turret press while still using the single stage at times, then moved to a progressive.

It really helps to learn reloading on a single stage. Not that starting on a progressive can't be done, it is just more entailed and the learning curve is steeper.

[Kevin Rohrer]

This question is asked ad nauseum on all reloading sites.

The safest answer to learning how to reload is to take baby steps and start w/ a single-stage press. A 650 is most definitely not for beginners.

[Still Shooting]

I began reloading at age 16, when my Dad bought me a Pacific single stage press, a set of dies for my .22 Hornet, a pound of H2400 powder, and a box of Hornady 45gr. bullets. I reloaded through my 20's, and added .270 dies and .30 Remington dies (for my Dad's rifle). In my mid-30's I began loading lots of different ammo - .223, 6.5x55 Swede, .308, 30-06, and also .380, .38/.357, 9mm, and .45ACP. At that point I had bought a Dillon RL550.

In the 90's and early 2000's I got single again, moved around some, paid a lot to lawyers, etc. and didn't do much reloading - or even shooting!

Three years ago I started reloading again, but all I had left to work with was my old Pacific SS press. I now reload mostly all rifle cartridges, and a friend gave me his unused Dillon 550B to replace the one I had sold to get single again! I replaced my old Pacific (donated it to a newbie) with a Redding 'Big Boss' SS, and I now use both presses. I use the Dillon for loading .223/5.56x45, for .30M1 carbine, and .22 Hornet and K-Hornet. Everything else goes into the SS press. In all, I now have 21 die sets in 20 calibers.

I'd recommend starting with a single stage press, as several have recommended here. Get a GOOD scale (I have an RCBS balance scale, and a Dillon electronic that is excellent). Buy a chamfering tool, a primer pocket brush, a case neck brush, a case trimmer, and a tumbler. Get some case lube (or stick with carbide dies).

Buy a reloading guide from each bullet supplier you use, and by all means a Lyman Guide. IMO the Lyman guide is the best for education, followed by the Hornady Guide.

-Above all, take it one step at a time and enjoy the learning process - I'm still learning, and that's part of the fun. The best pastimes are ones that will let you become capable (reloading a few rounds) in a matter of hours, and still challenge your knowledge and build your skills for years afterward. That, to me, is the best part of reloading!

[beatledog7]

A good SS press is a great way to learn the basics and get comfortable with whatever cartridges you eventually want to load in volume (on a progressive). It will also keep right on serving you after you have "progressed" by being there to handle the inevitable "few of" reloading tasks for which altering your carefully tweaked progressive set-up would be woefully inconvenient.

[italy176]

Go ahead and spend the cash now. You can learn on a progressive - just go slow. Read the manual for your press. Check out YOUTUBE. Get good loading data and don't be afraid to hit up the folks on this forum.

[RandyP]

What are your realistic ammo needs? If you match that and your budget you will be well served.

A single stage is slower (50-75 rounds per hour) but it is a great teaching tool, and thousands of folks continue to use them for all their reloading needs regardless - it ain't a race, it's a relaxing hobby for me.

Auto-advancing turrets (like the very nice Lee Classic) make 150-175 rounds per hour - a complete kit costs about $200.

Progressives - make 300+ rounds per hour but ARE more complex with many things happening at once. They are also much pricier, though again Lee offers their Loadmaster at an economical price. Dillon is the acknowledged Caddy of reloading presses but carries a matching price tag.

ALL the name brands make good machines to their price point and ALL will turn out safe, reliable and accurate ammo identical to any other machine, if the reloader does their part.

[GCBurner]

More important than the brand or type of press you use is the amount of care you take at each step of the reloading process. The most time consuming, and the foundation that safe accurate ammo depends on, is inspecting and prepping the fired cases, looking for cracks, splits, signs of excessive headspace, enlarged primer pockets, proper trim length, and any other signs of inconsistency that would affect the safety and accuracy of the finished product.

[Certaindeaf]

Here's a utube video of a Lee Classic turret

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB6OS0LoRPE&feature=player_detailpage


Here's a utube video of an RL550B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R9wUKcSskrg

[zxcvbob]

A single-stage press is a nice thing to have even if you have a progressive press. Sometimes you just need to load one box of ammo for one gun and your big press is all set up for something else.

I have a progressive and several single-stages. I use them all about equally. I started out with just a used C&H 3-station single stage. It's about twice as fast as most SS's, but new ones (4 stations now) are really expensive. I reloaded 100 9mm's in half an hour with it once just to see if I could, but I don't like going that fast and I couldn't have maintained that rate anyway. [ETA: maybe it was 50 in a half hour for a 100/hr rate, I can't remember for sure and 200/hr doesn't sound right]

I haven't tried reloading .223 on a progressive press, but I think the case trimming would give you fits -- unless there's a press-mounted trimmer I don't know about.

[Bud0505]

When I started loading years ago I bought the Dillon RL550B. That is what my mentor was using and is what he taught me to reload on. I would take my toolhead, dies and powder measure to his house and set everything up using his press load a few rounds and step out in his backyard to his firing range and try them out. I would tweak the loads and when I was satisfied with my load I could then set up my press back at my house and reload. To me the real answer to OP is the fact that he has been granted purchase authority. I would buy a progressive and grow in to it. You never know if funds will be available down the road to upgrade.

[kelbro]

I started on a single stage (RCBS) and loaded that way for 30yrs before I bought my first Dillon 550. Wouldn't give up my Rockchucker but if I were to do it all over again, I would go ahead with the 550B. 223 and 9mm are relatively high volume loads and it takes a long time to load up a days worth of shooting with any single stage.

Buy the 550B, start off loading on it single stage and then start using it as a progressive.

These days, 38 special, 357 mag, 44 special, 45 Colt, 9mm and 45ACP are loaded on a Dillon Square Deal B or I wouldn't shoot them.

[hentown]

The ONLY reason starting with a single-stage press was right for me was that I wasn't sure that I wanted to reload, when I decided to get started. In hindsight, I sure do wish I'd just gotten the 650 that I'm loading on now from the beginning. Reloading isn't rocket science. I can't think of a REAL logical reason for not starting with a progressive, particularly if you're planning on loading a lot of rounds for semi-auto plinking.

I load all my rifle and handgun rounds on my 650. I don't find that my trusty Rockchucker loads any more accurately than does the 650.

As to the safety, that's not an issue with rifle rounds. With handgun rounds, there's a station available for a powder-check system. I recommend the RCBS Lockout Die. It literally stops the press when you're either under or over charged.

[zxcvbob]

These days, 38 special, 357 mag, 44 special, 45 Colt, 9mm and 45ACP are loaded on a Dillon Square Deal B or I wouldn't shoot them.


If I was starting over completely from scratch, I would get a Dillon SDB *and* a Forster Co-Ax. Probably costs about the same as a 550.

[guyfromohio]

Would it make sense to get a BL550, get some practice under my belt and then have the ability to add accessories to make it into a full-fledged RL550B?

[Certaindeaf]

.Buy the 550B, start off loading on it single stage and then start using it as a progressive..
Isn't it more proper to call the 550B a manual "progressive"?

[GLOOB]

There's nothing wrong with a progressive press. It'll just take longer to setup and figure out. And you have to look in each case before you put the bullet in, to make sure the powder throw didn't bridge.

But OTOH, most people who have a progressive press still use a SS press for certain things. So it makes perfect sense to start of with a SS press, because you will probably find it useful even after you go progressive.

[JSmith]

Tightgroup Tiger said, Check out Lee's Classic Cast turret press, it has auto-indexing and can be changed to single stage operation in seconds.

I did that. I thought about beginning reloading last January, spent the winter in study and research, bought equipment in March and April, and produced my first 100 rounds the first week of May. So far, so good. I use the Lee as a single stage (advancing the turret by hand); the turret lets me keep the dies set up the same way from one batch to the next so for me it's a good compromise.

[RustyFN]

guyfromohio are you anywhere near Marietta?

[guyfromohio]

Columbus.

[Powderman]

To the OP: If you can, get the Dillon 650. Go ahead and buy it set up for one caliber, probably 9mm. Get another tool head to set up for .223.

Buy the casefeeder and the small rifle and small pistol plates for it.

You will--especially if you will be loading mil-surp 5.56 and 9mm--need the Dillon Super Swage as well, to get the crimps from the primer pockets.

When you get that done, order a single stage press. I recommend the Rockchucker or the Lee Classic Cast.

Now, put it ALL aside, and get a couple of good reloading manuals. I recommend the Speer Manuals and the Nosler Manual for beginners. READ the first part, over and over again.

Now, assemble the single stage press ONLY.

Here is the important part. You need to find an experienced reloader in your neck of the woods to talk you through your first rounds. There are a few ins and outs to learn.

Be patient! Reloading is actuay relatively simple--but it's not for the simple minded. Just like shooting or handling firearms, as long as you follow the basic safety rules it's fun--but there can be grave consequences if you lose your focus.

So, go for it! I own a Dillon 650 with all the trimmings, bells and whistles, as wel as the Classic Cast and the Rockchucker. PM me for any questions you might have, and I'll be glad to help--especially when you get ready to load .223.

[jim243]

guyfromohio, you are already way over your head just thinking you want to get into reloading. If you can afford it go ahead and get the 650 it is a good press, but only one of the costs of reloading. Inaddition, you will need a good scale, powder measure, dies, special tools, tumbler, media, case trimmer, bullet puller, bullets, powder, primers, cases and about 50 or 60 other small items, loading bench and space to setup.

And of course more powder and primers and bullets. As an example - one pound of powder will make about 1,650 9 mm rounds, but only a little over 300 223/5.56 rounds.

The cost of reloading components have gone up over 60% in the last 5 years and so far there is no end in sight for component cost increases.

During the last 8 years I have spent about $15,000 on equipment and components, but I shoot a lot and reloading is a hobby for me. The reason I got into reloading was for better functioning ammo, your reloads will be 1,000% better and consistant that any you can buy in the store (it does take time though).

If you just want to reload in large quanities, than buy bulk ammo. If you are looking for a new hobby then get into reloading, but it is not cheap anymore.

Jim


http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/ReloadingBench6-3-2012.jpg

[jmorris]

The only thing about the 650 is that if you have the primer tube full it will chunk a primer out everytime. Not a good thing to "learn" on if you want to walk before you run.

It does have a spring loaded lever on #2 so you can put them in one at a time or you can disable it with a ziptie, if the tube is already full and you want to stop the flow.

[rfwobbly]

Mr Ohio -

A Mercedes is a great car, unless you need to carry a load of brick to a job site. In the same way a 650 is an excellent reloading press, but it could be a bit of over-kill. Only you can answer that question.

The 650 is optimized for volume reloading. If you need to reload 200 to 1000 rounds in a single session, then 'yes' the 650 is your machine. But if you're wanting 20 rounds a week of 9mm and 223, then you're going to find that it is not optimized for flexibility. In a low volume/multi-caliber scenario, then you'll find that the 550 is much more useable.

We can tell you the strong and weak points of any press system; only you know the proposed volumes per caliber per week.

[CZ57]

I also started with a single stage. If I were starting out today there's no doubt about it, I'd get the LEE Classic Turret Press. Because like my REDDING single stage my LEE Classic Turret has a Top-Dead-Center feature so I can maintain very precise Overall Cartridge Lengths. Learning with a turret press is just as easy as learning on a single stage IMO. Remove the auto index feature and you can operate it as a precision single stage. With the auto index feature and a little practice you should be able to produce around 200 rounds per hour. IMO, this is the top press for flexibility. Ease of learning with the ability to go right to a fairly high production rate with the precision that Top-Dead-Center provides. It is almost inevitable that LEE will produce a progressive based on the LEE Classic Turret. Then all you'll need to do is buy a few parts to upgrade to a full progressive after having a good learning curve of both precision and productivity. ;)

[EddieNFL]

If you can read at a high school level or above and have enough mechanical ability to use a screwdriver, the 650 will serve you well as a first press. Read, re-read and take your time.

[Vern Humphrey]

Get what you want and when you get frustrated with it, I'll buy it from you for half what you paid for it.

[Magnum Shooter]

Would it make sense to get a BL550, get some practice under my belt and then have the ability to add accessories to make it into a full-fledged RL550B?

It would be much more expensive that way. Instead I would buy the RL550B and strip it of the “accessories” then add them as I felt comfortable, and save all the extra cash for components.

[Hit_Factor]

Dillon 650 was my first press, Hornady Lock and Load single stage my second and Dillon 1050 my third.

The 650 has more safety built into it, at least that's my opinion and that's why I choose it for my first press. I'm a competitive shooter so throughput is important.

Loading 100 rounds of a particular hunting load cost too much on the 650, because I have a tendency to buy a quick change kit for each caliber. So the Hornady fit this need and is cost effective.

The 1050 allows me to reload the military 5.56 and 7.62 cases without a lot of hand processing of primer pockets.

The two Dillons combined allow me to size, trim and reload high volumes of 5.56 and 7.62 with no hand processing.

Generally, in the winter I load all of the rifle ammo I think I need for matches in the upcoming year. Then I setup each Dillon for the two most common pistol pistol calibers I plan to shoot in the next season.

[guyfromohio]

I think the take-home is that I should stick my allocation in my sock drawer and spend some time laying eyes and hands on various models and systems. There's also a part of me saying "you can't reload 9mm and .223 cheaper than you can buy it, so........ go buy a .45 and load something that makes sense".

There have been some really great responses here.

[Blue68f100]

You can run most progressives as a single stage press by only using 1 die in at a time. There are a lot of things happening on progressive with all stations full to keep up with. I started on a SS and progressed to a progressive for high volume loading. I find the LNL-AP a little more user friendly when it comes to changing calibers. A lot cheaper than the 650 on conversion. If you want the brass feeder the 650 is a better deal. I would not buy the 650 without the brass feeder.

If you buy your supplies in bulk you can load 9mm for around $10.50-$11.00/100 or less if shooting lead, I don't think you can buy them for that price.

[Hit_Factor]

There's also a part of me saying "you can't reload 9mm and .223 cheaper than you can buy it, so.........

If you reload correctly you will find that you can make better ammo than you can buy. So don't sell your self short by comparing to the lowest cost ammo you can buy at wally world.

My experience has been groups that are about half the size of mass produced ammo.

Sent by someone using something.

[ozo]

I'm with batex and solman.....
If you can afford it, get the Dillon 550B
and...be sure to get the high-rise stand and the
roller handle...with it [purchased at the same time].
Many reasons....but one comes to mind, it's the nicest,
friendliest press I have used and does a superb job
easily and fast.
The 550B indexes manually, so you will sorta have a single
stage press to start, but the benefits of ALL your dies
set and in place and ready for you to progress.....
I started on a Lyman single stage in 1970...and brother,
my s**t did not stink !! I was making nice rounds [.357]
and I didn't need nobody [sorta] ! I've had many presses
since then, but once I had a 550, I could not believe I
never had one before....I'm not real fast on it, no where near
what Dillon says my rate 'can' be....but I can almost keep up
with the rate that MamaOzo shoots what I do make !! :)
The 550B will do rifle, and do them well, yet I don't load for
rifle anymore. [no help there]
I see no problem starting [right out of the chute] with a Dillon,
but not an auto-indexing press.
First step suggestion[s], research, read, research, etc. and check
around you for a shop that has reloading stuff....go touch stuff,
look at it, talk to them [and any old men around it ] ....just like
buying a new gun...go touch and hold a bunch.
Above all, get some actual manuals !!!!!!! [AND READ THEM !!]
The newest and freshest...lyman 49th, Sierra, etc. and of course,
the [older] ABC's of Reloading, a must for us all.
Beware, a 550B...set up really nice.....bells, whistles, dancin'
girls, and the beer.......ain't cheap !!!! But it damn sure is nice !!
Let us know wazzup....feel free to ask me too, if you wish.

[GaryL]

I started Loading on a Dillon 550 and I'm very glad I did. I can't imagine loading the volume I do on a single stage. In fact I probably would not still be reloading if I only had a single stage at this point. The nice thing about the Dillon 550 is that you can use it as a single stage press. However I am very mechanically inclined and detail oriented. I say go for the Dillon if you feel it's right for you.
I could have written this post.

As others have pointed out, the 550b functions just fine as a single stage when you want it to.

[ozo]

Oh, not to slow down your train.....
but it takes time to get set up, and you
probably know that. I'm not talking about
the knowledge and experience, but just
physically.
Brass, tumbler, micrometer, scale, and multiple
other peripherals.....[loading trays-boxes, inertia
hammer, F/H uniformer, lighting, cleaning brushes,
projectiles, powder, hand tools, conversion kits,
storage for it all.....A BENCH and work area....
which choice for each do you make.....where do you
buy it.....it takes time just physically gathering and
organizing it all.
Most of us have spent years getting a 'system' down
where we now are in our comfort zone. I have mine to
the 'comfort simple productive zone'.....and it all sits
basically in a 2'x3' area. From where I am typing these
words, I can turn my chair and load....but it took more
than a couple of hours to reach this point. :) :)
Hope some of this makes sense.....I finished my
honey-do chores for today....and the wife sent me
to my room !!!!!

[Jaxondog]

If you have the money by all means go for the big Blue press. Just buy a single stage with it to learn on. Be safe and buy a few reloading manuals and study up on what you are about to do. Good luck

[GT1]

I will side with the folks saying go for it, as long as you can realistically evaluate your mechanical comprehension.
Pistol and .223 are not a single stage situation, I would never say start there. I'm of the mind that as many are frustrated and turned away from reloading by following advice to go single stage as are hooked(That is 1970 advice, and should be left there, in the past.). By all means, buy a simpler press if you want to learn on it, it will be put behind you in a very short time though. I'd say go Lee classic turret for that purpose, as it takes a very small footprint on the bench and is very flexible and guaranteed useful for a long time.

The best thing to do is read, read a lot, here, buy a couple reloading manuals. Watch videos, there are dozens of in depth videos out there where you can watch the intricacies of the various tools and presses. A couple weeks spent doing that will save you a lot of questions and aprehension later.

[Centaur 1]

I think the take-home is that I should stick my allocation in my sock drawer and spend some time laying eyes and hands on various models and systems. There's also a part of me saying "you can't reload 9mm and .223 cheaper than you can buy it, so........ go buy a .45 and load something that makes sense".

There have been some really great responses here.
I like the suggestion about buying the cheap $30 Lee press as well as whatever progressive you decide on. No matter how meticulous you are, it's best to go slow in the beginning. I have mine mounted to a piece of wood and I keep it under my bench until needed. I just clamp the board to my bench for doing odd jobs like belling the case mouth when loading cast bullets, decapping brass or sizing cast bullets. Don't forget to save some funds for casting equipment, that's how you really save money. I scrounge lead and brass wherever I can, and it only costs me $40 to load 1,000 rounds of pistol ammo.

[guyfromohio]

The Brian Enos website has some good packages for first-timers. After spending some quality YouTube time on the 550, it looks to be worth some further homework. The Lyman 49th editition is on its way.

[CraigC]

If you can read at a high school level or above and have enough mechanical ability to use a screwdriver, the 650 will serve you well as a first press.
I've never heard anyone who learned on a progressive that didn't justify their decision. Of course, they don't know any better. I've also never heard anyone who learned how to handload before getting a progressive wish they had done it any differently.

[RandyP]

Some folks reload so that they CAN shoot, some shoot so they can reload. I reckon I am somewhere in between and enjoy reloading as a separate but related hobby to my enjoyment of shooting.

I started with the Lee Anniv kit, and once I had the process down I quicklly wished the output was a 'little' faster for my pistol reloading. With MY realistic (read limited) ammo needs, the output of my Lee Classic turret is a perfect match for quality hobby time.

Yes, I could easily make my year's worth of realistic ammo supply in a couple hours on a Dillon 1050...........and then what? Throw a tarp over the machine till next year's session? - LOL - If a person actually needs (for whatever reason) to blaze thru ammo production, then a progressive is likely the better choice......for them. I reload when the mood strikes me, enjoy the relaxing hours, and then don't reload for a while. YES, I wish I could afford to shoot every week, but I'm lucky if I can afford to shoot every other month.

[CatManDo]

I called Brian Enos to buy a progressive press and I had already decided I wanted a 650 with a casefeeder. Brian spent a goodly amount of time explaining the 550 and 650 press(s) and explained that the volume I figured I would load tended to suggest to him that I actually needed the 550. After a lengthy discussion Brian sold me the 550 setup. I thought and thought about my decision overnight and called Brian back the following morning and switched my order to the 650 with casefeeder because I wanted the auto-indexing feature. Brian said O.K. and set me up with the 650, a decision I am very happy with to this day. I have supplemented the 650 with a Lee Breech-lock SS press that I use EVERYTIME I reload, either as a universal decapper or if I am starting a new load developement I start on the Lee. My theory is that a progressive WILL work the same as a SS press, but a SS press won't work progressively. The learning curve isn't that much different. I would suggest buying the most press you can afford and study everything in print and watch youtube videos for expert advice. One such source is www.ultimatereloader.com , the video instruction is expertly done and easy to understand. BTW, welcome to the vortex.

[CatManDo]

Oh, BTW; if you really want to enjoy the art and craft of reloading as a hobby, I suggest you load with cast bullets. AND, if you really, really want to enjoy it to the fullest, cast your own bullets. I find it's a blast to cast (pun intended) .

[KansasSasquatch]

Buy the $30 Lee press. Use it for a month or two to get the basic process down, then drink the blue kool aid. I started out with my Hornady LNL because of the volume of shooting that I like to do. I wish I had been smart enough to listen to those folks on another forum that told me to start with a single stage. The $30 for the Lee press won't be wasted. You can always set it up with a universal decapping die and run your brass through it before tumbling, or half dozen other uses. It won't be wasted money.

[CraigC]

One thing that has not been addressed. Regardless of the shooting you plan on doing, you WILL need a single stage or turret. At least for load development. Progressives are for volume production of ONE load, not experimentation.

[EddieNFL]

I've never heard anyone who learned on a progressive that didn't justify their decision. Of course, they don't know any better. I've also never heard anyone who learned how to handload before getting a progressive wish they had done it any differently.
I learned on a SS. All I could afford as a no rank GI. Would have started on a progressive if money had not been an issue.

[hentown]

I've never heard anyone who learned on a progressive that didn't justify their decision. Of course, they don't know any better. I've also never heard anyone who learned how to handload before getting a progressive wish they had done it any differently.
__________________

Apparently, you didn't read my previous post. Count me as one of those who thinks that the time he spent learning on a single-stage to have been a waste of time.

[Henry45]

I have 2 650's, and a Lee Classic Turret, and a Lee single stage. I resumed reloading after about 20 years of not doing it. I started with a RCBS. But, that was 20 years ago. I bought a 650.

My 650's actually have been easier to set up and understand than the Lee Classic Turret to me. I use the Lee single and the 650's 99% of the time. The Lee Turret is kind of awkward to me, and I will be setting it up specifically for just 380. I use my 650 for 223/556 and 45 LC.

It's up to you, go slow, but, THE NUMBER ONE THING......... GET A MANUEL and READ , READ, READ!!!!! That is the key. Then, no matter what you start on, it will be easier for you to understand.

But, I second the comment about you will need a single stage of some kind. It's all about working up your load, not production. The 650's will be a little awkward to just run a couple or ten of a round to see if it works or not. But, it's easy for a single stage.

Just my .02.

[jmorris]

Yes, I could easilymakemy year'sworth of realistic ammo supply in a couple hours on a Dillon 1050...........and then what? Throw a tarp overthemachinetillnext year'ssession? -LOL - If a person actually needs (for whatever reason) to blazethru ammo production, then a progressive is likelythebetterchoice......for them. I reload when themood strikesme,enjoy the relaxing hours,

Thats pretty much what I do. The ammo that I need every week for matches is loading automaticly, so I don't have to spend the time if I don't have it. When I want to "enjoy the relaxing" I use other presses. So I load much more ammunition on one press while spending more time on others. Why there is no such thing as "best press".


One thing that has not been addressed. Regardless of the shooting you plan on doing, you WILL need a single stage or turret. At least for load development. Progressives are for volume production of ONE load, not experimentation.
Again it depends on your goal. If you want to play around making 5 rounds each with a zillon different powder charges and take them to the range and try them out over the course of a few months thats one thing.

I didn't have the time at some point in my life so I made a reciever mount for one of my SD's. Worked up loads with 3 different bullet weights and 4 different powders to powerfactor in a few hours.

Put in one round, load it, chronograph, crank up powder bar and shoot another until you reach your speed goal. Then quickly load enough for further testing and move on.

http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/3533895716_0a7f11a958.jpg

[A Pause for the Coz]

Normally I would have recommended a single stage press.
Actually I still do, but some times you do have to factor in the finance dept.
If the better half is ok with the cost investment of a 650.
Might want to get it now.
Because once you get any loader. Thats not going to happen again :-)
Then its.. You already have one. We cant afford it.:rolleyes:
Easy to buy a cheap used single stage latter under the radar.

[CatManDo]

Love that setup Mr Morris. I am envious.

[Flatbush Harry]

I have been handloading for 37 years now, starting in 1975 with a MEC shotshell reloader (I was shooting roughly 10-12,000 targets/year. After I got my first handgun that year (a Colt Trooper III followed by a couple of 1911s) I picked up an RCBS Partner press. Though I had the fundamentals down from shotshell reloading on a progressive, I decided a single stage was best for metallics and me. I got into rifle reloading and moved up to an RCBS Turret press. It was a convenience decision as I could put 3 complete caliber set-ups on each turret head for rifle and two for handgun. I have worked with three separate turret heads, interchanging them as needed.

I decided to go back to an RCBS Rock Chucker for precision rifle reloading and for my .375 H&H loading. The greater rigidity and stability of a single stage press works for me. I'm a quality over quantity guy...and I rarely shoot more than 100-150 rounds per range session from multiple guns.

I have used both Lyman and RCBS equipment and find both brands eminently satisfactory. That said, I have had excellent customer service from RCBS and their warranty/response is second to none; Lyman, less so. One reason I like RCBS is a convenience one: I have a 5' long bench and have set up 3 stations on it with RCBS Accessory Base plates. Depending on what I'm doing, I can mount whatever equipment I want on any station. A while ago, I wrote to Lyman customer service to ask if they would be planning similar equipment; I got a one word e-mail that said "No". Net, net, I've gone for the green Kool-Aid. Still tastes great!

Finally, I'm comfortable working with small batches. I've just finished making up 10 groups of 10 rounds to work up elk loads for my .375 H&H, using three different powders and two different bullets. When I finish those ladders, I'll screw around with primers and then seating depths. Some days I can't decide whether I reload to shoot or shoot to reload.

Cheers,

FH

[Elkins45]

Start with a single stage press. You're going to need one anyway for one reason or another, even if its just for decapping. If you're set on a progressive then buy the cheap Lee C press too--it's only another $35 or so.

[zxcvbob]

Start with a single stage press. You're going to need one anyway for one reason or another, even if its just for decapping. If you're set on a progressive then buy the cheap Lee C press too--it's only another $35 or so.


Buy them at the same time. Set them both up, and play with them. Actually use the Lee press until you know what you're doing. It'll still be useful for case prep or for small runs or for new cartridges where you don't have a shell plate even after you switch to the Dillon. (I bet the Lee press is cheaper than one shell plate)

[guyfromohio]

This has been a very good thread experience for me. Thank you. I think I've made up my mind. I do want to go with a Dillon, but the 650 is a bit intimidating and almost too mechanized. I like what I've seen of the 550 and seems to still keep you close to the process. I'm going to order some version of Brian Enos's starter package (I'll be asking for some feedback on detail). I'll go with 9mm to start and then will likely add .223 as I learn. Once I really understand what I have /need, I may get a single stage for some of my not-as-used rounds.... .30-30, .308, etc... I'm really looking forward to this. I'll be placing my order in the next 14 days (taking the kiddos to see Mickey first) and will update as I progress. Thank you all again. I really appreciate the lack of "my brand is better" posts.

[Fat_46]

Just to echo a number of other posts - I started very inexpensively, aith an RCBS Partner Press. When I started to load 223 is greater quantity I purchased a Dillon 550B. I've also upgraded the Partner to a Forster Co-Ax. However - the Partner is still an integral part of my bench. I made mistakes when learning to use the progressive, and got tired of using the inertia, hammer-style bullet pullers. When you need to recapture the components from a number of rounds a press-mounted puller is the way to go, and neither the Dillon or the Forster can do that. The Partner? Good leverage and stronng enough for pulling duties. I also added an older Lee Turret a few years ago when 260 brass was unavailable and I was necking 308 down to 260. It allowed me to small-base size the 308, then neck it down without changing dies.

My only real bit of advice is read a few good manuals, and ask lots of questions if yuou have even the slightest concern.

Its far easier to pull components, or scrap brass errors than replace a finger, eye, or worse.

[silicosys4]

I started a year ago, on a progressive. It wasn't the ordeal that some people would make it seem, but it is a bit of a learning curve, and for the first few days I broke more bullets down after reloading them than I shot.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd go to Wal-mart and get a Rock Chucker single stage press kit,
and a few books,
then reload using the single stage press, until you know what you are looking for in your ammo....COAL, case length, etc...
Once you are confident that you understand reloading, then get the progressive. Its much easier to produce ammo on a progressive if you have the knowledge to recognize something's not right while its happening.

[TheCracker]

Read some manuals and watch a bunch of YouTube. Ammosmith is very good and has a awesome series of for beginning reloaders. I don't think he had a lot of progressive reloading stuff but he has many vids that will help you learn the process.

[readyeddy]

I first learned how to hand load on a Dillon progressive. That was 20 years ago. Today I use a single stage hand press just because I don't have the space for a reloading bench. It's a lot slower, but I don't shoot a lot anyway.

As far as learning on a progressive, I don't think there is a problem when it comes to handgun cartridges. It's just that you need to get all your dies set before you start cranking out finished ammo, whereas you do batches of different steps on a single stage press. No big deal, just that it's a lot faster to make ammo on a progressive.

For rifle ammo, it's a little bit different because you need to lube your cases when resizing and most people wipe off the lube before loading. Also, some people like to weigh their rifle charges. But I think you can use your progressive as a single stage if you just install one die at time. I don't see why not.

Anyway, it's not rocket science. It's more like following a cook book and making a roast or a pie. Start with the Dillon or buy a Dillon and get a $30 single stage press, it's just a matter of money. Either way, I think you'll have a great time. Enjoy.

[Powderman]

That is how I reload rifle cartridges--ESPECIALLY .223.

I use this sequence...

1. Preliminary tumbling-case clean. This one is to knock the garbage off.
2. I then lube the cases with Lyman spray lube; wait for the lube to migrate, then they get dumped into the casefeeder of my 650. I will resize and deprime everything.
3. Second tumbling--this one is substantially longer, with crushed walnut. Gets them nice and pretty. I like pretty. :)

4. If they need trimming, it's done now. If not, they get process through a Dillon Super Swage. This gives me a chance for a final case inspection as well.
5. Now (after I wipe off the case feeder plate and the feed tube), I'll set the powder measure, get the bullets handy and commence high-volume operations.

(My next step is a bullet feeder.)

I do this, not to load up a ton at a time, but for the sake of expedience and saving time. I don't get too much time off anyway--so, I can set up the press and go through each step one eay at a time. If I have a lot to load, then when I get to that point, I'll load 100 rounds per day until I'm done.

[RustyFN]

I think you will be very happy with the 550. I started on a Lee classic turret and am very happy with the way I started. I do own a 550 now and think you will be fine to start on it, just take your time.

[abq87120]

I'm a noob. I need bullets for five calibers. I started where I'm likely to end up in the equipment department. I bought a Hornaday LnL AP. There are lots of great progressives out there besides Hornaday. I am still experimenting with the tricks of the trade. Like crimping and preventing set back. I will eventually master reloading, I'm sure. I've made a commitment and have set a goal for how many bullets I want to shoot next year. No regrets so far.

[Certaindeaf]

I'm a noob. I need bullets for five calibers. I started where I'm likely to end up in the equipment department. I bought a Hornaday LnL AP. There are lots of great progressives out there besides Hornaday. I am still experimenting with the tricks of the trade. Like crimping and preventing set back. I will eventually master reloading, I'm sure. I've made a commitment and have set a goal for how many bullets I want to shoot next year. No regrets so far.
That's a neck tension issue. Crimp will not increase neck tension. Use the search function and check out one of the many threads addressing this subject.

[Lost Sheep]

I'm a noob. I need bullets for five calibers. I started where I'm likely to end up in the equipment department. I bought a Hornaday LnL AP. There are lots of great progressives out there besides Hornaday. I am still experimenting with the tricks of the trade. Like crimping and preventing set back. I will eventually master reloading, I'm sure. I've made a commitment and have set a goal for how many bullets I want to shoot next year. No regrets so far.
Remember that quantity MUST ALWAYS take a lower priority than quality. To do otherwise is to invite catastrophe.

Always test your setup by loading a single cartridge all the way through, then measure and check every aspect of that cartridge before you start with the progressive operation. Run in progressive mode for a handful of cartridges and check THEM individually. Only after those checks go into full production.

To do otherwise is to invite catastrophe.

Then, set aside every 50th round to come out of the machine for examination and testing (bag or box the other 49 with #50 set atop the bag) and keep the 50s in order of production so you know which were produced when.

To do otherwise...

You do not have to use my quality control procedures exactly. Make your own QC.

But DO design a thoughtful and reliable QC process. To do otherwise is to invite catastrophe.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep.

p.s. I read between the lines of your post. Please forgive me if I have over-reached. I know loading is not rocket science, but it does involve flame and smoke and things that go very fast. To lose sight of that fact is to invite catastrophe.

[guyfromohio]

Well..... My mind and wallet size has changed a few times. By the time I would have purchased a 550 and EVERYTHING needed to start reloading, I would have been well past a grand. In the meantime, my very generous staff gave me a $600 gift card to Cabelas. I decided to just take the plunge instead of pondering and studying and procrastinating. My Lee Classic Turret and everything needed arrived at my door today. I know it isn't the Mercedes of reloading, but I think it will suit a rookie just fine. I chose to start with .38 special for a few reasons.... I have some brass, reloading will actually save money, and perhaps the revolver will be more tolerant of mistakes. I'll update when the first round is completed... Likely after Christmas. Thank you all for the input. Perhaps the Dillon will come later as my comfort level grows.

So does it ever make $$ sense to reload 9mm when I can buy it for $9.99/50?

[morrow]

xl650 is my first and only press. awesome decision IMO

[Certaindeaf]

It's up to you. I think good reloadable ammo is more than $10/50 now. I can reload 9 for about $3-4/100. I cast also.

[thump_rrr]

A single stag press to develop your loads and a progressive to pump them out.

A progressive is a pain in the butt when you want to make very few rounds of something.

[jwrowland77]

So does it ever make $$ sense to reload 9mm when I can buy it for $9.99/50?

I'd say yes, considering you could load consistent quality 9mm for $14-$16 per 100. Reloaded rifle ammo is where you really see the savings, but I'd reload regardless of savings. Around my area, 9mm goes for about $22/100

[Certaindeaf]

I'd say yes, considering you could load consistent quality 9mm for $14-$16 per 100. Reloaded rifle ammo is where you really see the savings, but I'd reload regardless of savings. Around my area, 9mm goes for about $22/100
Did you check that today? Probably not. lolz