Missouri Cast bullet load - Alliant Bullseye - 40 and 45acp


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Dean1818
October 28, 2012, 08:22 PM
Im looking for favorite target loads and favorite missouri bullet weights for 40cal and 45 acp..... For target shooting in a M&P 45c and Shield 40, using bullseye powder


Thoughts?

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bds
October 28, 2012, 09:01 PM
Missouri Cast bullet - Alliant Bullseye - 40 and 45acp target shooting in a M&P 45c and Shield 40, using bullseye powder

Thoughts?
Although I have used Bullseye to produce accurate 45ACP loads, I prefer W231/HP-38 and slower burning powders for 40S&W. Others should be along to post their favorite 45ACP loads with Bullseye.


For 40S&W, I found Bullseye to produce too snappy recoil, even for fullsize pistols (Glock 22/M&P 40). You may find the recoil for compacts even particularly unpleasant, even at target velocities. For the mildest recoil, Missouri 170 gr SWC/180 gr TCFP can be loaded with start-to-mid range lead load data (I referenced 1999 Winchester load data (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&stc=1&d=1329800605)) and produce mild to moderate recoil while providing very good accuracy and no leading. Shooting mild W231/HP-38 40S&W loads are very doable even with my G27 and my hands are functional next day at work. ;)

These powder charges and OALs have worked well in M&P and Glocks/Lone Wolf barrels but of course, you want to use the OALs that will work well for your pistol:
MBC 40S&W 180 gr TCFP: 3.8 - 4.3 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.120" OAL
MBC 40S&W 170 gr SWC: 4.0 - 4.6 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.120" OAL

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173974&stc=1&d=1351473055

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=160932&stc=1&d=1331700222
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=160933&stc=1&d=1331700222

rsrocket1
October 28, 2012, 09:20 PM
For 40 cal, 180g bullets, up to 5g for a pretty strong kick with the Shield. 3.7g Bullseye will send the bullet out with about as much recoil as a full power 9mm (meaning pretty soft). Be sure to wear eye protection and a hat because the cases will only go up about a foot or 2 and may land on your head.

The standard target load for 45 ACP is a 200g SWC over 4.5g Red Dot. You can use 5.0g Bullseye with a 200g bullet or 4.5g Bullseye under a 230g RN. The problem with 45ACP is that it is a low pressure round and lower pressure loads of Bullseye will be very sooty and smokey. I don't mind it because I use it outdoors and if it looks like I'm shooting black powder, who cares?

For low recoil, but full pressure loads of 45ACP, a faster powder like 3.0g Clays or 4.0g Red Dot under a 230g lead RN would result in less soot, less unburned flakes and less blowback into your face.

bds
October 28, 2012, 09:36 PM
For 40 cal, 180g bullets, up to 5g for a pretty strong kick with the Shield.
There's no current published load data from Alliant for Bullseye powder and 40S&W lead bullets. 2004 Alliant load data lists 4.5 gr as max charge for 180 gr lead bullet. Lyman #49 shows 4.2 - 5.1 gr for 175 gr TCFP bullet but keep in mind that Lyman used .401" groove diameter test barrel fixture with .401" sized lead bullets and I found Lyman #49 charges to be higher than powder manufacturers' load data for 40S&W.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173976&stc=1&d=1351474330

rsrocket1
October 29, 2012, 12:30 AM
The Alliant website lists Bullseye data for 180g Jacketed bullet as 5.5g:
Pistols and Revolvers 40 S&W 180 gr Speer GDHP

Minimum OAL(inches):Bbl Length:Primer:PowderCharge Weight(grains):Velocity(fps)
1.12: 4: CCI 500: Bullseye: 5.5: 929

If you use the rule of thumb that lead can typically be loaded with slightly more powder than jacketed without exceeding pressure limits, you can figure that 5.0g Bullseye will keep you well below the SAAMI limit of 35000 psi. My guess is about 24,000 psi, but take it for what its worth and remember you get what you pay for and this advice is free.

BTW I load my 180g bullets to 1.135" not 1.12". That should buy me another 1 to 1.5 kpsi of headroom.

If you want snappy, try 7.0g Power Pistol with a 180g bullet, you won't want to shoot 200 of those in an hour. I shot 200 of the 4.7g Bullseye loads twice last week and thought nothing of it (except that I realized I needed to cast some more 40 cal bullets).

7mmb
October 29, 2012, 01:32 AM
Bullseye is too fast for optimum 40 S&W loads but works great for 45 ACP. It will work for the 40 but slower powders would be better. It is too dirty for my tastes in 45 ACP but it sure is accurate, and inexpensive. I prefer other powders but can't knock anyone who uses it. It does produce accurate ammo, just dirty. Work up to max published data and find out what shoots best in your guns. Near max is usually where the sweet spot is.

bds
October 29, 2012, 02:57 AM
If you use the rule of thumb that lead can typically be loaded with slightly more powder than jacketed without exceeding pressure limits
Really? When I am loading near max or at max load data, especially for 40S&W, I prefer to have some definite data to work with. When using mixed range brass with unknown reload history, I usually limit my loads to mid-to-high range load data and reserve max charges to verified once-fired brass - but that's me. YMMV

you can figure that 5.0g Bullseye will keep you well below the SAAMI limit of 35000 psi. My guess is about 24,000 psi
Here's 2004 Alliant load data comparing jacketed vs lead load data showing 4.5 gr of Bullseye with 180 gr lead bullet at 33K PSI:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173980&stc=1&d=1351492547

IME, Bullseye produces more accurate 9mm loads than Titegroup/W231/HP-38 when using jacketed/plated bullets but as 7mmb posted, for 40S&W lead loads, I think there are better powders. Before I switched my match caliber from 45ACP/9mm to 40S&W, I tested Bullseye/Clays/WST/Titegroup/W231/Universal/HS-6/WSF and settled with W231/HP-38 for a nice compromise of accuracy vs milder recoil.

I even tested Promo (another fast burning powder like Bullseye) using Red Dot load data with Missouri 180 gr TCFP and my impressions were that while Promo produced accurate shot groups, recoil was more snappier than W231/HP-38 - http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6509911&postcount=21

Shooting impressions (All shots were fired off hand using front sight flash rapid fire):

Promo 40S&W average shot groups:
155 gr FMJ (Montana Gold) at 4.8/5.2 gr with 1.125" OAL
180 gr Plated (Rainier Ballistics) at 4.5/4.8 gr with 1.125" OAL
180 gr Lead (Missouri Bullets) at 3.5/3.8/4.1/4.4 gr with 1.125" OAL

180 Lead/3.5 gr - Accuracy all over the 8x11 copy paper - Light recoil
180 Lead/3.8 gr - 7 yard 2" - 10 yard 3" - 15 yard 4" - Mild recoil
180 Lead/4.1 gr - 7 yard 1.5" - 10 yard 1" - 15 yard 4" - Moderate recoil
180 Lead/4.4 gr - 7 yard 1" - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 2.5" - Firm recoil

180 Plated/4.5 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 2" - Firm recoil
180 Plated/4.8 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil

155 FMJ/4.8 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil
155 FMJ/5.2 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil

CZ57
October 29, 2012, 03:13 AM
The .40 S&W is known to have a very fast pressure peak and because of that I would never use Bullseye to load it. It's fast burning powders that almost always gets reloaders in to trouble regarding Ka-Booms. About the fastest burning powder I'm really comfortable using in .40 S&W is Ramshot True Blue or AA#5. True Blue is known for having very good pressure stability. I understand the use of W231 and powders like it so long as you don't experience pressure spikes. Then again, I don't see people trying to get factory load velocity with W231 unless it is with 180 gr. Bullets. You ain't gonna get there with 155s.

Bullseye is much better suited to the much lower pressure .45 ACP but even there, WST is as fast as I go and most days I load cast and Jacketed with Ramshot ZIP, about the same burn rate as W231, just a little cleaner burning. ;)

the Black Spot
October 29, 2012, 07:37 AM
I shoot a wheel weight cast bullet from a lee mold that weighs 230 gr. 5 gr of Bullseye will print nice tite groups out of my 1911 clone.

oldreloader
October 29, 2012, 11:22 PM
I emailed Alliant about 40S&W ans 45 ACP and got this response from Ben Ammonette:

40 SW
Lead Bullet Data

150/155 gr lead
Bullseye powder start 5 grs Max 5.6 grs
Unique powder start 5.3 grs Max 6 grs
Power Pistol powder start 6.1 grs Max 6.7 grs

175/180 gr lead
Bullseye powder start 4 grs Max 4.9 grs
Unique powder start 4.7 grs Max 5.5 grs
Power Pistol powder start 5.7 grs Max 6.5 grs

45 Auto

180/185 gr Lead

Bullseye start 4.5 grs max 5.7 grs
Unique start 5.5 grs max 7 grs
Power Pistol start 6.5 grs max 7 grs

185 gr Jacketed Hornady XTP

Bullseye start 4.5 grs max 6 grs
Unique start 5.5 grs max 7.5 grs
Power Pistol start 7.4 grs max 8.2 grs

200 gr Lead

Bullseye start 4.5 grs max 5.3 grs
Unique start 5 grs max 6.5 grs
Power Pistol start 6.3 grs max 6.8 grs

200 gr Jacketed Speer Gold Dot

Bullseye start 5 grs max 5.6 grs
Unique start 6.5 grs max 7 grs
Power Pistol start 7 grs max 8 grs

230 gr lead or Jacketed

Bullseye start 4 grs max 5 grs
Unique start 5.5 grs max 6.5 grs
Power Pistol start 6 grs max 6.5 grs

Note: Always start with the minimum recommended powder charge and be sure they will properly cycle the action of your pistol before reloading a quantity.

Dean1818
December 6, 2012, 11:42 PM
Thanks everyone!

If you enjoyed reading about "Missouri Cast bullet load - Alliant Bullseye - 40 and 45acp" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!