[Cosmoline]

I'm always surprised how few people realize what the unorganized militia is, and that they are likely already part of at least one. OTOH I'm also dismayed by the number of so-called "militia" groups which have seen fit to organize, assign ranks, and generally behave as small military units. As I see it, the unorganized militia is:

1--Created by statute and by the natural right of self defense
2--Unorganized

Part of being "unorganized" means there are no ranks, no uniforms, no codes of conduct, no nothing. Training would be limited to organizing plans with your neighbors, but is more likely to be family based. The weakness of this system is also its great strength. It is leaderless and impossible to nail down. For an invading army, that means everyone is a potential enemy, and bullets can come from any direction. This is enough to bog down even a very modern military. This means no websites, no self-appointed officers, no addresses.

[telewinz]

Sounds like a mob, I guess thats whats going on in the Port of Prince right now.:barf: Goes to show its sometimes difficult to see "hidden" strengths.

[ctdonath]

(Time to say it again...)

Every year some 14 million militiamen take part in a huge military exercise. Every single one of them is a sniper, provides his own weapon, operates on his own intel (from GPS to HUMINT), is fully equipped with cammo and other gear, uses low-profile transportation, and otherwise provides his own kit and training. Every single one pursues live targets during this exercise. Each operates independently or in small, nearly impenetrable cells. Only voluntarily does each participant make himself known to the general public and government via paperwork and bright markings. The sum total is a military larger than the sum of the four biggest armies in the world. Code name: Deer Season.

Related observation:
When asked about how Swiss citizens would react to a Nazi invasion, a Swiss military leader responded "shoot twice and go home."

[capt. Nemo]

Rest assured that WE are what frightens the hell out of the ___________(Democrats/Socialists/Communists/Blissninnies/United Nations...you fill in the blank - there are no incorrect answers). Millions of empowered, independent, armed citizens who won't drink the coolaide from the left end of the table is the stuff their nightmares are made of.

And some of the guys I hunt with aren't really that poorly organized...

Buck

[NoHarmNoFAL]

I'm with you here.
Just let me play devils advocate for just a moment to give you something to ponder. The militia you speak of would be pitted against the very government that barely ALLOWS it's existence. This "common man" militia would face much logistic trouble and with the media and possibly the populace against them try to change the government by force. Look at my questions and ask yourself, truly is this the way for me.



Are you (or your buddies) willing to actually pull the trigger on your fellow man? Most are not.

Are you willing to be captured committing domestic terrorism. Which entails loosing all constitutional rights and the seizure of all of your assets leaving your family destitute? Most are not.

Are you willing to die for your cause? While committing at least a felony in which there are no insurance death benefits and possibly civil retribution inflicted on your surviving family. Most are not.

Are you willing to die for your cause? To widow a wife, to leave a child fatherless most likely to be shunned from society and left to fend for themselves. Most are not.

Are you willing to sacrifice your life behind bars? To live in confinement because you had gut to stand up for freedom. Most are not.

I will nor would I ever cast judgment on any one that could not answer: YES I WOULD DO IT!

Will there be some to stand up and face the gauntlet YES but how will their sacrifice be remembered? Some crazy gun-nut or a true Patriot? Is it worth it to sacrifice my life for freedoms that so many are just willing to give away, or is there a greater cause. As I sit here now behind my computer I ponder these very issues, what would I do?

My answer to all the above questions: I hope I would be willing to make the sacrifice that so many made for me, I hope I would be able to see the correct path not the path of rage or vengeance but the righteous path, the path that will help this country be better not worse. There is a point where there will be no one else to do violence for you and you must fight yourself. The question will be how long can you wait....

Right now I don't know what I will do........

[Logan5]

I think we're not all talking about the same "militia." All I'm really getting out of the unorganized militia business is that theoretically, the government could call on the able bodied for some kind of assistance. I'm not getting where the blood in the streets and heroic sacrifices and looting and shooting the neighbor's cat come in.

[Devonai]

Fourteen million individuals acting independently does not a militia make. The unorganized militia does indeed include all able-bodied persons, but this default status means nothing without training, structure, and support.

I have no problem with people organizing their own unsanctioned militia groups as long as they:

1. Break no laws.

2. Don't presume to tell anyone else what to do.

3. Don't expect any other organization to respect their ranks, support their role, or lend them any physical or philosophical aid.

4. Strictly adhere to the Constitution of the United States.

Organizations that have dedicated members will be smart and do all of the above. Those that do not will either fail or be reviled by the general public.

In my opinion state-level organizations like the Massachusetts Volunteer Militia are the best way for someone interested in militia service to get involved. We offer real training for a real job, and our members stand a much better chance in combat than you and your hunting buddies, prior service folks notwithstanding. We are sanctioned and supported by the National Guard but exist independent of them. We can provide our own support if necessary as we have done countless times in the past for our own training exercises.

[4v50 Gary]

Is the 20th Massachusetts still around? During the Family Feud of 1861-65, the 20th Mass. was known as the Harvard Regiment because of all the Harvard men in it.

For being bright College Boys, they stormed Fredericksburg and unlike the 19th Mass that fought from house to house to minimize casualties, the 20th charged (hey diddle diddle, right up the middle) right up the street and got slaughtered. In fifty yards space one company lost 40 men. According to their colonel, they suffered 97 men & officers killed in that 50 yards.

[capt. Nemo]

Devonai,

The National Guard supports and sanctions you? So, where would you be if that sanction and support ceased to exist?

Do you really think that your people would stand a better chance than regular outdoorsmen? I'm not trying to start an argument - I'm just asking. I don't know anything about the training you recieve or the membership of your militia. I do know that just being former military doesn't make one combat-ready.

There are some untrained and unsupported folks in Afghanistan and Iraq that are giving our well- trained and -supported troops a lot of trouble.
The untrained and unsupported don't have to win...they just have to not loose.

I'm just thinking that King George discounted the effectiveness of an "untrained" and "unsupported" militia against his well-trained and -supported regulars back in the 18th century. Weapons and technology have changed. Have people?

[Joe Demko]

Millions of empowered, independent, armed citizens who won't drink the coolaide from the left end of the table is the stuff their nightmares are made of.

...and there are millions more who find the koolaide at the right end of the table no more flavorful.

[Devonai]

The National Guard supports and sanctions you? So, where would you be if that sanction and support ceased to exist?

The same place we were, largely, for the last fifteen years. The MVM is the most recent incarnation of the state guard, and we didn't always have as much support or training opportunities from the National Guard as we do now. When on our own, we rely on the experience of prior service members and militia members who know their stuff. When we were invited to participate in training with the National Guard, it was invariably for OPFOR and we invariably and soundly defeated them. We were so effective that BLUFOR began to require us to "die in place," preventing the falling back and reorganizing that gave them so much trouble. They said that letting us be as effective as we could diminished their soldier's opportunity to learn from the engagement, which we always thought was a tremendous load of :cuss: But we wanted to be invited back later so we never complained.

I do know that just being former military doesn't make one combat-ready.

True, but we're training once a month, so those who have the title of "former" military are still keeping their skills sharp along with the other volunteers.

There are some untrained and unsupported folks in Afghanistan and Iraq that are giving our well- trained and -supported troops a lot of trouble.

True again, but they're most effective in either pressure or remote activated IEDs, or suicide bombings. Any time they attempt to engage our troops in a stand-up fight they get slaughtered, something that isn't being widely reported by the media.

Forgetting all the political arguments and looking at Iraq from a purely military perspective, the insurgency in that country is NOT doing nearly enough damage to make the US consider leaving. If we're going to talk about a theoretical invasion of the mainland United States, a much higher level of skill and a much more direct level of counter-attack will be necessary to convice the invaders that the cost of sticking around is too high. We're not just talking about harrassment, now we're talking about significantly compromising the enemy's ability to fight on your territory. For that, you need military training. Otherwise, the best you can do is pop a couple of bad guys and run for it.