HK MP5 v AKS74U


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el Godfather
November 1, 2012, 02:37 AM
Dear THR,
Between the HK MP5 and the AKS74U, which do you prefer as an SMG for sub-urban sort of setting?

I pick the Krink for power your get in a compact rifle- I call it SMG.

Thanks

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FIVETWOSEVEN
November 1, 2012, 03:08 AM
No contest, the Suchka is better for the size. It's also my dream firearm too. The AKS74U is a carbine just FYI.

allaroundhunter
November 1, 2012, 03:19 AM
The AK74u is not an SMG. It fires an intermediate round, so it really is just an assault rifle.

However, I still would pick the MP5. After firing several, both suppressed and unsuppressed, I have fallen in love. They are accurate, have a quick ROF, and are very maneuverable.

Mp7
November 1, 2012, 06:15 AM
Since itīs all about placement ... the MP5 wins.

Very proven ergonomics. To say the least.

RX-178
November 1, 2012, 07:35 AM
That's a tough one. Neither of them have particularly good ergonomics compared to the AR/SCAR/ACR type things coming out in droves lately.

Caliber really isn't much of an issue at this point, since even the more powerful 5.45mm round is going to lose a lot of its punch out of such a short barrel, while the 9mm round is going to gain more velocity out of the longer SMG barrel. Normally I'd say rifles are rifles, and pistols are pistols, but we're in AR-pistol ballistics territory on the AKSU. It's almost too close to call, but if loaded with modern, high-pressure JHP ammo, I'll give the edge to the MP5.

In terms of recoil, normally I'd say the 9mm SMG is more controllable, but in this case the MP5 has a very high rate of fire compared to the AKSU. Also, the delayed blowback system has notoriously harsh felt recoil compared to a gas operated system. It's still close to even, but I'll give the edge to the AK on this one.

I've never felt the stock trigger on a Russian-made AKSU rifle, but here in the states, the 922(r) compliance trigger replacements on AK-style rifles are many times better than the stock trigger on HK style rifles like the PTR-91. BUT, if we're going to non-stock triggers, HK rifles have the advantage of a guy named Bill Springfield and his trigger jobs. Nobody said it was a rule that SMGs have to have crummy triggers, so the MP5 wins this round.

Neither weapon is particularly good for mounting optics. That problem was probably solved earlier for the MP5 than it was for the AKSU, but the so-called claw-mount for the HK stamped receiver was never something that inspired any particular confidence for me. I'd prefer something like the Samson MFG rail forend for the AKSU, so it wins this one.

Ergonomics... like I said, neither of them is particularly good by modern standards. The MP5 safety/selector is oversized and nearly impossible to reach while maintaining a firing grip, and the AK lever on the right side just flat out IS impossible to reach while maintaining a firing grip. The MP5 has an advantage of the charging handle being on the left side, but it's still easy and fast to reach underneath the AK, behind the magazine, and work the charging handle with the left hand. The MP5 also has a big problem in that you can't seat a fully loaded 30 round magazine on a closed bolt, so you add an extra step (locking the bolt open) to the process of changing magazines...... unless of course you download your mags to 28 rounds instead of 30. Which I would. Point goes to the MP5.

The MP5 weighs half a pound less than the AKSU, but the ammo doesn't actually weigh any less. There isn't much difference in the weight of a complete 9mm cartridge, versus a 5.45mm cartridge, so for the same weight, you're not going to be carrying any more ammunition for one, than the other. For the weight though, even though it's largely wasted in such a short barrel, I'd prefer the 5.45mm round. I'd say 200 meters is pushing it for either weapon, but it seems more reasonable with the AKSU.

So, both weapons are basically matched point for point, so now it just comes down to personal preference. I'm going to cast my vote for the AKSU, just because I prefer the way it handles over the HK. That and 5.45 ammo is cheaper than 9mm Luger JHP +P rounds. Don't get me wrong, I love my HK-style rifle (PTR-91), but the kinda clunky feel makes a lot more sense in a 7.62x51 battle rifle than it does a 9mm submachinegun.

fatcat4620
November 1, 2012, 09:04 AM
Body armor? AKS74u please.

JustinJ
November 1, 2012, 11:49 AM
The MP5 would be very much preffered for use inside a building due to lower flash and noise. The MP5 can also be suppressed much more effectively. For use outdoors i'd probably prefer the AK although i'd rather have it in 7.62 if out of a short barrel.

Rob62
November 1, 2012, 12:33 PM
I'd go with the MP5, but I can see where much of the choice can be placed on personal preference. Both are excellent weapons in the close fight.

FWIW I would take the MP5SDA3 specifically.

Regards,
Rob

dprice3844444
November 1, 2012, 12:46 PM
got a screw on can for my mp5,working indoors,it's the best way to go.75-100 yards max range i think outside.

FIVETWOSEVEN
November 1, 2012, 04:00 PM
However, I still would pick the MP5. After firing several, both suppressed and unsuppressed, I have fallen in love. They are accurate, have a quick ROF, and are very maneuverable.

I've shot a few MP5s and yet to handle an AKS74U but I would prefer an AK.

Also, the delayed blowback system has notoriously harsh felt recoil compared to a gas operated system.

Harsh recoil from an MP5? hardly.

JustinJ
November 1, 2012, 05:36 PM
How about a UMP in .45 against the shorty AK in 7.62?

sub-moa
November 1, 2012, 09:47 PM
"notoriously harsh felt recoil" :scrutiny: Good God :rolleyes:

RX-178
November 1, 2012, 10:34 PM
Well, I don't know what better term to use for it.

The 9mm MP5 kicks harder than the UMP .45 (although that might have something to do with the freaky stock-wobbling that the UMP does under recoil), or 9mm ARs.

SBR'd AKs in .223 don't kick a heck of a lot worse in my experience, and I don't imagine 5.45 would be much of a difference from them.

*shrug*

el Godfather
November 2, 2012, 12:54 AM
I cant understand the harsh recoil part as my nephew who is 12 can handle it well.

allaroundhunter
November 2, 2012, 03:27 AM
Harsh recoil out of an MP5?....

My brother was controlling 2 and 3 round bursts out of them and keeping all hits in the 'A' zone at 15 yards..... When he was 10.

MachIVshooter
November 2, 2012, 05:36 PM
Harsh recoil from an MP5? hardly.

Agreed. The relatively low ROF and 9mm cartridge make the MP5 one of the most controllable SMGs extant. I have no trouble keeping one on target in FA.

You want to feel a FA that gives you a work out, try a G3 or M14 (or one of the early 1,200 RPM Thompsons).

Between the MP5 and AKSU? MP5 for me. I can't stand AK pattern guns.

FIVETWOSEVEN
November 4, 2012, 01:47 PM
or one of the early 1,200 RPM Thompsons

:eek:

kimberkid
November 4, 2012, 05:23 PM
Never shot an AKU74U but I have a M16 a MP5/9mm & Vector HK-53/223 that i use as hosts for my HK registered sear ... While 9mm is cheaper to shoot, the MP5 handles like a toy it's so easy to controll which is what makes it such a fantastic SMG; however, the HK53 is much more powerful and has only slightly more recoil; is hands down my favorite automatic weapon even more so than the M16 as it has less muzzle rise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/kimberkid/Toys/P1010678.jpg

Whoever said the recoil from an MP5 is harsh due to its roller-lock design is most likely just misinformed ... While some say the felt recoil from an HK-91/308 is harsher than an L1A1 or an M14 I believe that's mostly coming from the people that are used to the recoil of the 223/5.56

Unka-Boo
November 4, 2012, 05:37 PM
Having shot both ( Post sample '74SU and a registered pack MP5 )...'74 all the way...for all intents and purposes, they are the same size, gimme a rifle round any day over a pistol round.

The postie '74 was probably the most fun I've had with a F/A, we burned through a spam can in less than two hours...:D

SilentScream
November 4, 2012, 07:44 PM
Harsh recoil in an MP5? what a wuss!!! That or you simply have zero experience with the MP5 and talking bits and pieces of stuff you've heard others say and are parroting them here.

MachIVshooter
November 4, 2012, 09:53 PM
or one of the early 1,200 RPM Thompsons

:eek:



Yeah, that was about the look on my face. Lol. The owner did warn me, but I just didn't think a pistol cartridge could push around an 11 lb gun like that. I was wrong. When you're emptying the 20 round sticks in ONE SECOND, muzzles climb.

That, and I'd been shooting his MP5 prior. That's like going from a 1/2 ton pick-up to a Peterbuilt.

-v-
November 5, 2012, 02:58 AM
I think what the poster regarding harsh recoil from the MP5 intended was it is harsh compared to other 9mm SMGs.

Also, for all the above stated reasons, I'd also say AK-74u. Plus 7n6 and 7n10 are designed to tumble, so even with the loss of muzzle energy from the 8.3" barrel they should be quite effective. Looking at what velocity data can be scrounged up from wikipedia and internet sources, the 7n6 looses the "equivalent" of 100 meters of range (velocity from a 16" barrel at 100 meters = 8" barrel velocity at 0 meters). So if the '74 is rated to be effective out to 400 meters with a 16" barrel, the '74u should be doing its job out to 300 meters.

FIVETWOSEVEN
November 5, 2012, 03:23 AM
I think what the poster regarding harsh recoil from the MP5 intended was it is harsh compared to other 9mm SMGs.

I haven't shot other sub guns but the recoil is still extremely mild. I don't see how it's harsh even compared to a .22 rifle.

Also, for all the above stated reasons, I'd also say AK-74u. Plus 7n6 and 7n10 are designed to tumble, so even with the loss of muzzle energy from the 8.3" barrel they should be quite effective. Looking at what velocity data can be scrounged up from wikipedia and internet sources, the 7n6 looses the "equivalent" of 100 meters of range (velocity from a 16" barrel at 100 meters = 8" barrel velocity at 0 meters). So if the '74 is rated to be effective out to 400 meters with a 16" barrel, the '74u should be doing its job out to 300 meters.

I always read and have seen that the AK74 is a 600 yard capable rifle. How would a short 7.62x39 AK perform? Any idea?

-v-
November 5, 2012, 06:29 PM
Well, the 400 meter was more going off the battle zero setting. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still carrying steam beyond that mark.

As for 7.62x39, see here (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/67611-762x39-velocity-from-various-barrel-lengths/). It acts a lot like 300BLK, and the velocity drop from 16"->11" is only 180-ish fps. I think the 8" pistols are around the 2,000 FPS mark.

JustinJ
November 6, 2012, 10:30 AM
I always read and have seen that the AK74 is a 600 yard capable rifle. How would a short 7.62x39 AK perform? Any idea?

I think "600 yards capable" depends on one's definition of capable. Sure, it can lob a bullet that far but at that range its really just going to poke a small hole.

SilentScream
November 8, 2012, 11:09 PM
I haven't shot other sub guns but the recoil is still extremely mild. I don't see how it's harsh even compared to a .22 rifle. I've shot everything from Sten's to Port Said's and the MP5 beat's em all when it comes to controlability, accuracy and felt recoil. It is truly a pussycat in the recoil department.

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