Where can I buy a C&R NFA registered SBS?


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Capybara
November 1, 2012, 11:28 AM
I live in the People's Republic of Kalifornistan. Amazingly, with an NFA trust, we are allowed to own C&R SBS and SBRs here but finding one is like looking for hens teeth.

Anyone have a recommendation on a Class III dealer who might have a nice condition old SBS Winchester, Ithaca 37 or Remington available? I am more interested in a nice 12" barrel C&R SBS for HD than an AOW. AOWs are cool but not really very practical for HD.

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p2000sk
November 1, 2012, 12:06 PM
From Calguns 2010, worth a read and completely relative to your question.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=277858

Capybara
November 1, 2012, 12:12 PM
Thanks for that, I did read it. I think what I am looking for is a 1962 or older SBS that was probably from a police department, something like an 870 or an 1187. They do exist, but are nearly impossible to find.

I have spoken with a lot of the bigger Class III dealers and they are all mainly just interested in machine guns because that is where the money is. These C&R SBSs, when they are available, don't sell for much, $300.00 to $800.00 usually.

Acera
November 1, 2012, 01:21 PM
I think what I am looking for is a 1962 or older SBS that was probably from a police department, something like an 870 or an 1187. They do exist, but are nearly impossible to find.

You must mean 1100, since the 11-87 did not come into production until.......well, uh, 1987, LOL.

medalguy
November 1, 2012, 02:26 PM
Try here:

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/

or here:

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/?db=nfafirearms&category=All+Items+in+this+Category&query=category&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=headlines&website=&language=&session_key=

Good luck

crazy-mp
November 1, 2012, 10:16 PM
These C&R SBSs, when they are available, don't sell for much, $300.00 to $800.00 usually.

That's pretty much the same price as a non C&R gun.

MasterSergeantA
November 2, 2012, 03:40 PM
Actually, you might want to start here.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/

If it isn't on the list, it isn't C&R. If you find one that looks good to you, place a WTB ad on one or more of the boards.

Remember that YOU have to have the C&R license to own one...and you can't buy a C&R shotgun and make a SBS out of it on a Form 1 because that becomes a "new" firearm.

Capybara
November 2, 2012, 04:50 PM
Yes, I meant 1100. Thanks for the catch.

Capybara
November 2, 2012, 05:03 PM
Thanks MasterSergeantA. Being in California, any firearm older than 50 years old is a C&R automatically but the ATF list will come into play since I will probably have to buy the gun out of state.

Ian
November 2, 2012, 08:42 PM
I'm not familiar with CA rules - would it be possible for you to buy a normal C&R shotgun and then file a Form 1 to turn it into an SBS?

crazy-mp
November 2, 2012, 10:40 PM
I'm not familiar with CA rules - would it be possible for you to buy a normal C&R shotgun and then file a Form 1 to turn it into an SBS?

I thought the only way to own anything NFA in CA was to be a FFL/SOT

medalguy
November 3, 2012, 01:45 AM
would it be possible for you to buy a normal C&R shotgun and then file a Form 1 to turn it into an SBS?

When you Form 1 a weapon, you become the manufacturer. New manufacture = non C&R.

o Unforgiven o
November 3, 2012, 02:25 AM
If it isn't on the list, it isn't C&R.

Being in California, any firearm older than 50 years old is a C&R automatically but the ATF list will come into play since I will probably have to buy the gun out of state.

Am I missing something? The link provided by Master seems to say than any firearm in it's original configuration which was made at least 50 years prior to the current date is automatically granted C&R status. "The List" Seems to only be guns that do not meet the age criteria, therefore to be C&R eligible must meet criteria(s) a or b, of which the ATF maintains a list of firearms they deem meet said criteria(s). What does the state you buy it in have to do with it's status as a C&R firearm?

Capybara
November 4, 2012, 12:28 AM
Guess I didn't read it carefully enough, I think you are correct. I am still waiting for my FFL03 to arrive so still learning the ins and outs of the whole thing. Having an FFL03 in a free state seems pretty straightforward but the arbitrary and frankly strange rules that we have to abide by in California are very, very confusing.

For instance, in regards to the other posts above, I have no idea if I can turn a C&R shotgun here into an SBS and apply for the stamp. I do have a local dealer who is an FFL07/SOT2 and he deals in AOWs and I know the penal code here permits C&R SBS and SBRs but I don't know anyone in the state who actually owns one so there is nobody I have been to hit up to see what exactly is the legal way to do it here. Sure you can own one here, but how do you obtain one?

Thanks for clarification and advice.

MasterSergeantA
November 4, 2012, 12:18 PM
Am I missing something? The link provided by Master seems to say than any firearm in it's original configuration which was made at least 50 years prior to the current date is automatically granted C&R status. "The List" Seems to only be guns that do not meet the age criteria, therefore to be C&R eligible must meet criteria(s) a or b, of which the ATF maintains a list of firearms they deem meet said criteria(s). What does the state you buy it in have to do with it's status as a C&R firearm?
This is a list of what the ATF has determined are C&R guns. The post concerning what Californiastan considers C&R may have some bearing in that state, but it has no bearing at the federal level. Anyone who wants to collect 'historically significant' firearms, to include automatic weapons, can get a C&R license which precludes the requirement to go through another dealer to acquire them. The C&R license allows the licensee to have anything covered by the list to shipped directly to him.

There are probably a few weapons that the Cali folks have labeled "C&R" to allow a few otherwise banned guns through the loopholes. That definition may mirror the federal version, but it can only be used to reduce the number of allowable weapons, not add to it.

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